David Sanger

In fact, if you ask Arab diplomats what they think right now, their own belief is that the Iranians are weaker than they've ever been and probably in a worse position to do mischief.

in the region unless they are pushed to the wall.

And their biggest worry about Iran today is that if Iran's leaders believe that regime change is on the way, then there's no reason for them to hold back if they think this is the fight to the death.

And so their interest is not pushing the Iranians to that point.

The other day in an interview on Fox News, Steve Witkoff said that the president was surprised that the Iranians had not yet capitulated.

And he was wondering when they might capitulate.

My own view is you're never going to see them fully capitulate because the governing thought of the current Iranian regime since the 1979 revolution has been to be in opposition to the United States.

And so folding to an American president simply isn't going to happen.

And the question is, can we come up with enough face-saving diplomacy here to basically push this problem several years down the road?

And hope that with an aging supreme leader and a restive population on the streets, regime change happens organically rather than something that the United States once again tries to bring about.

And that's really the big debate.

Do you push them over the edge because they're weak now?

No.

Or do you try to create conditions that keep the protests alive and keep the pressure on the current regime until it cracks from within?

It's the implosion versus explosion debate.

Always great to be on Fresh Air, Terry.