David Senra
👤 PersonPodcast Appearances
So I wanted to do some that I absolutely loved and where there was actually an acquired founders overlap. And the very first recommendation would be the new Stripe Press edition of Poor Charlie's Almanac that just happened to be published a week after he passed away. There's something on the back.
So I wanted to do some that I absolutely loved and where there was actually an acquired founders overlap. And the very first recommendation would be the new Stripe Press edition of Poor Charlie's Almanac that just happened to be published a week after he passed away. There's something on the back.
There's a quote from Charlie Munger, and he says there's an old two-part rule that often works wonders in business science and elsewhere. Number one, take a simple, basic idea, and two, take it very seriously. And so I really feel that you and I are taking Charlie's advice to heart. We're just taking a very simple idea of learning from history, and then we take it very, very seriously.
There's a quote from Charlie Munger, and he says there's an old two-part rule that often works wonders in business science and elsewhere. Number one, take a simple, basic idea, and two, take it very seriously. And so I really feel that you and I are taking Charlie's advice to heart. We're just taking a very simple idea of learning from history, and then we take it very, very seriously.
And then the idea that we got to spend time with him in his very last year, I don't take that lightly. To the degree that I can, and you guys definitely did it with your excellent interview with him. It's like I really think being a steward of his ideas and trying to push it forward to past generations so they're not forgotten is a very important part of my mission.
And then the idea that we got to spend time with him in his very last year, I don't take that lightly. To the degree that I can, and you guys definitely did it with your excellent interview with him. It's like I really think being a steward of his ideas and trying to push it forward to past generations so they're not forgotten is a very important part of my mission.
This book is almost impossible to find. So it's The Dream of Salomeo, My Life, and the Idea of Humanistic Capitalism by Brunello Cuccinelli. And I had to have him on my list out of the 330 entrepreneurs that I've studied for the podcast so far. It's shocking how many of them
This book is almost impossible to find. So it's The Dream of Salomeo, My Life, and the Idea of Humanistic Capitalism by Brunello Cuccinelli. And I had to have him on my list out of the 330 entrepreneurs that I've studied for the podcast so far. It's shocking how many of them
made the mistake of over-optimizing for their professional success at the detriment to their personal life, their relationships, and their happiness. And Brunello, along with Sol Price and Ed Thorpe, is really up there with how I want to pattern my own life.
made the mistake of over-optimizing for their professional success at the detriment to their personal life, their relationships, and their happiness. And Brunello, along with Sol Price and Ed Thorpe, is really up there with how I want to pattern my own life.
And he says, I've always been firmly convinced that in order to successfully stand out, you need to focus on one single project representing the dream of your life. And then it just speaks to the first class person that he is and the first class organization that he runs. The podcast comes out. It became very popular. Him and his team listened to it. And they send me a handwritten note.
And he says, I've always been firmly convinced that in order to successfully stand out, you need to focus on one single project representing the dream of your life. And then it just speaks to the first class person that he is and the first class organization that he runs. The podcast comes out. It became very popular. Him and his team listened to it. And they send me a handwritten note.
I've never felt paper that's more luxurious than this. And then they do the most Italian thing ever. They send me a bottle of their Cuccinelli olive oil. So again, he's very thoughtful. It's very obvious when you read the book. And you can tell by the way he's running the company that he's paying attention to everything.
I've never felt paper that's more luxurious than this. And then they do the most Italian thing ever. They send me a bottle of their Cuccinelli olive oil. So again, he's very thoughtful. It's very obvious when you read the book. And you can tell by the way he's running the company that he's paying attention to everything.
Okay. So number three and number four are actually related. You find these weird, hard to find books. And so this is one of them where it's like it blew my mind that the fact that In the 1980s, the richest American was somebody that no one ever heard of. And so there's only one book on him. And it's this book called The Invisible Billionaire, Daniel Ludwig.
Okay. So number three and number four are actually related. You find these weird, hard to find books. And so this is one of them where it's like it blew my mind that the fact that In the 1980s, the richest American was somebody that no one ever heard of. And so there's only one book on him. And it's this book called The Invisible Billionaire, Daniel Ludwig.
It's a biography of Daniel Ludwig written by Jerry Shields. And the book starts off saying that this photographer located the richest man in the world and no photographs have ever been taken of him. I'm like, what are you talking about? And then you learn that Daniel was just excessively focused on just his work. He had no other hobbies besides physical fitness and building his business.
It's a biography of Daniel Ludwig written by Jerry Shields. And the book starts off saying that this photographer located the richest man in the world and no photographs have ever been taken of him. I'm like, what are you talking about? And then you learn that Daniel was just excessively focused on just his work. He had no other hobbies besides physical fitness and building his business.
And he did that till, again, till he died. And what I love about it is you just find somebody that is completely focused on doing the best job possible for his customers and for his own sense of satisfaction of building a business. that he is proud of and that is operating. The way I would describe his approach to his business, it's like an artist painting a canvas.
And he did that till, again, till he died. And what I love about it is you just find somebody that is completely focused on doing the best job possible for his customers and for his own sense of satisfaction of building a business. that he is proud of and that is operating. The way I would describe his approach to his business, it's like an artist painting a canvas.
So number four is the taste of luxury. You got to pronounce his name. Bernard Arnault. Can you just pronounce the whole thing? I butchered all the French names in this episode.
So number four is the taste of luxury. You got to pronounce his name. Bernard Arnault. Can you just pronounce the whole thing? I butchered all the French names in this episode.
Okay, so this is on the list, one, because I highly suspect he might be the best entrepreneur on the planet that's still operating and running his company right now.
Okay, so this is on the list, one, because I highly suspect he might be the best entrepreneur on the planet that's still operating and running his company right now.
And if you think about the fact that he knows everything down from the tiniest details, which there's crazy stories about this, to the big strategy, to the capital allocation decisions, I don't know if there's another more talented entrepreneur than him. His relentless dedication to really pay attention to every aspect of his business is something that I'm trying to do for mine.
And if you think about the fact that he knows everything down from the tiniest details, which there's crazy stories about this, to the big strategy, to the capital allocation decisions, I don't know if there's another more talented entrepreneur than him. His relentless dedication to really pay attention to every aspect of his business is something that I'm trying to do for mine.
But the acquired episode on LVMH is one of the best episodes of any podcast I've ever heard. Not just acquired, any podcast. It's incredible. I can't tell you how many people I sent that to, how many times I listened to it. And then you were kind enough, we were together at your house in San Francisco, and you were kind enough to give me this book, which allowed me to do the podcast.
But the acquired episode on LVMH is one of the best episodes of any podcast I've ever heard. Not just acquired, any podcast. It's incredible. I can't tell you how many people I sent that to, how many times I listened to it. And then you were kind enough, we were together at your house in San Francisco, and you were kind enough to give me this book, which allowed me to do the podcast.
Because at the time, you had a copy that you spent several hundred dollars on. And then if I wanted to order the book, the book was like, I think $3,000. Yeah, nuts. I think the important thing is identifying an opportunity that no one else sees. There's this great writer, Cedric Chin, that I really like.
Because at the time, you had a copy that you spent several hundred dollars on. And then if I wanted to order the book, the book was like, I think $3,000. Yeah, nuts. I think the important thing is identifying an opportunity that no one else sees. There's this great writer, Cedric Chin, that I really like.
And he actually wrote something about Mark Leonard is that the foundation of a great career is based on finding an earned secret and exploiting it for multiple decades. And the reason this book is so amazing was because it ends and Bernard is 42 years old. Yeah, it ends at the beginning.
And he actually wrote something about Mark Leonard is that the foundation of a great career is based on finding an earned secret and exploiting it for multiple decades. And the reason this book is so amazing was because it ends and Bernard is 42 years old. Yeah, it ends at the beginning.
And he is saying, hey, these luxury brands, they're kind of hard to compete with because if you are to have one, it's usually, you know, 50, 100 years old. And then everybody from the outside is telling him, this is a quote, I remember people telling me, it does not make sense to put together so many of these brands, but it was a success. It was a recognized success.
And he is saying, hey, these luxury brands, they're kind of hard to compete with because if you are to have one, it's usually, you know, 50, 100 years old. And then everybody from the outside is telling him, this is a quote, I remember people telling me, it does not make sense to put together so many of these brands, but it was a success. It was a recognized success.
And for the last 10 years, every competitor is trying to imitate. And so the book ends and he's calling his shot. He's like, hey, these seem to be good assets. I'm just going to keep buying them and then just keep compounding. And then you fast forward 30 years later and he's the richest man in the world.
And for the last 10 years, every competitor is trying to imitate. And so the book ends and he's calling his shot. He's like, hey, these seem to be good assets. I'm just going to keep buying them and then just keep compounding. And then you fast forward 30 years later and he's the richest man in the world.
So this is Soul Price Retail Revolutionary written by his son, Robert Price. This is another acquired founders crossover. And the episode I made on Soul Price, I titled purposely the most influential retailer to ever live.
So this is Soul Price Retail Revolutionary written by his son, Robert Price. This is another acquired founders crossover. And the episode I made on Soul Price, I titled purposely the most influential retailer to ever live.
Because if you look at the people who are on record saying they benefit from ideas from him, Sam Walton, Jim Senegal, Jeff Bezos, Bernie Marcus, it's like it all stems from this guy. So really the reason I picked this is one, It's a perfect crossover for your guys' excellent Costco episode.
Because if you look at the people who are on record saying they benefit from ideas from him, Sam Walton, Jim Senegal, Jeff Bezos, Bernie Marcus, it's like it all stems from this guy. So really the reason I picked this is one, It's a perfect crossover for your guys' excellent Costco episode.
But this goes back to finding people that you admire, not just for their business success, but their success in life. Imagine that your son, after you pass away, writes a biography. on your life. And this is one of the last paragraphs. If you don't mind, let me just go ahead and read this whole paragraph. Sol was a poster child for the American dream.
But this goes back to finding people that you admire, not just for their business success, but their success in life. Imagine that your son, after you pass away, writes a biography. on your life. And this is one of the last paragraphs. If you don't mind, let me just go ahead and read this whole paragraph. Sol was a poster child for the American dream.
His immigrant parents were born in a small Russian village. Sol was the first in his family to graduate college. He earned a law degree. He became an exceptionally successful businessman and philanthropist, and he celebrated 70 years of marriage. He was a good father. who instilled high values in his sons, and he never walked away from responsibility. It doesn't get much better than that.
His immigrant parents were born in a small Russian village. Sol was the first in his family to graduate college. He earned a law degree. He became an exceptionally successful businessman and philanthropist, and he celebrated 70 years of marriage. He was a good father. who instilled high values in his sons, and he never walked away from responsibility. It doesn't get much better than that.
I found this guy tweeted something a couple days ago whenever it was hilarious.
He goes, most people's alarm clock is David Goggins telling them to wake up and get after it.
My alarm clock is David Senra yelling at me, telling me to be like Edwin Land.
It's like, all right, repetition works.
Where I could ask him any questions...
Well, first of all, I guess we should back up.
There's a reason that he's so admired by so many people.
But for me particularly, you get to meet a lot of really interesting people because of the work that we do.
And so that's a blessing and something that I know we've had conversations in the past that we deeply appreciate.
But Charlie's a different level for me.
I literally think of him like the wise grandfather I never had.
I've met all kinds of people.
I don't really get nervous or starstruck.
I was legitimately shaking the day before.
I was like, I cannot believe.
I didn't want to tell that many people because there's no way this is going to happen.
I won't believe it until it actually happens.
We do very similar work, right?
Where it's like, how many people have spent six, seven years, tens of thousands of hours reading hundreds of books about the history of entrepreneurship and investing and then not only reading it, taking notes on it.
It's us and Charlie and Warren.
And so the reason I bring that up is because you think about all the different companies and founders you guys have studied, all the different companies and founders that I've studied, right?
And like even amongst the rarest group of people, Charlie still stands out.
And the crazy thing is he's 99.
And so I get there and we start off in his library, which is like the best place for me that you could possibly see.
How big is the library?
So one of his family members was there too.
And she's like, oh, this is...
This is like the front room.
Wait till you see the back.
Yeah, so it's like, it's similar to like the room we're in.
Like, you know, very similar size.
And, you know, floor to ceiling shelves.
And so I'm with a small group of friends.
In fact, mutual friends for us.
The people that set this up for us, or for me, was Andrew Wilkinson and Chris from Founders of Tiny, who are mutual friends.
And so we're sitting there.
And there's actually a funny thing where it starts out, and they know both Warren and Charlie.
They've talked to them before.
So they go right into it.
And then I'm sitting there, and I had this whole list of probably 25 questions.
I never got the chance to open my phone.
Because I was just sitting there.
I was like, I'm looking at him.
And he's, you know, very close.
Like, you know, maybe a little bit further from me.
Oh, that would feel super disrespectful to, like, take out my phone.
And I had, you know, read every single book on Charlie.
I watched all of his videos.
Like, I have studied this guy forever.
And so every time he had said, hey, read this book, I go and read the book.
And then I see a bunch of the books that he has recommended.
So people are like, oh, was he as, like, you expected?
Like, they say, hey, be careful, don't meet your heroes, right?
It's like, he was unbelievably gracious.
You know, unbelievable.
Like, I was like, hey, Charlie, you mind if I take a look at your bookshelf?
He's just like, do whatever you want.
Just unbelievably polite.
Still, like, biting intellect, ferocious intelligence.
So we were talking earlier downstairs where the scary thing about Charlie is...
I remember asking a question about Henry Kaiser, this guy that was super famous when Charlie was younger.
He built like 100 companies, built the Hoover Dam.
Like he was as famous in his time as like Elon Musk is today, right?
But no one knows who he is.
And I was asking questions about Charlie in the book.
And his recall is just insane.
So the point where I asked him, I go, how do you know all this, Charlie?
He goes, I knew his partner.
And then he starts telling stories about having a relationship with Henry Kaiser's business partner.
And then all these three hours of just unbelievable stories.
And then I go, Charlie, how do you remember all this stuff?
Do you reread the books over and over again?
And all I could think of was like, imagine.
That guy's mind in 99 is still so sharp.
I had brought a gift for him because he talks about Rockefeller all the time.
I bought him this special edition, centennial edition version of Henry Flagler's biography.
The guy, Les Sandiford, I think is the author of that book.
He is good friends with, there's only like one local bookshop in Miami called Books and Books.
And so Les is a local author who's good friends with the owner of that bookstore.
So they did a, you can't get this book anywhere else.
It's a special edition book.
Because Flagler moved to Florida later in life.
After the Standard Oil thing.
He's got a fascinating story.
We can talk about that, where he's unbelievably wealthy because of Standard Oil.
He's 50, 60, 70 years old when he's doing this.
And he's just like, oh, what am I going to do now?
I'll build an entire state.
When he gets to Miami, Miami is a little less than 500 people living in a swamp.
Because you can't live there.
There was no AC at the time.
And so then he builds the world's first railroad over connecting the Florida Keys.
He just essentially, like, you read that book and you're like, oh, humans have no limits other than the ones we put on ourselves.
And so that's what Flagler does.
And he does some terrible things, too, where it's like...
Wanted to find a way to divorce his wife.
So he literally moves to another state because he couldn't be divorced in New York.
Bribes the government of Florida.
They create the Flagler Law, which allows him to get a divorce.
Then he does that, like, I think a few times.
I think he's, like, in his 70s.
He marries, like, a 30-year-old.
Like, so it's not all good.
But that guy's like, oh, your rules don't apply to me.
Like, I will build whatever I want.
He built infrastructure, hotels, everything else.
Like, you know how a normal biography is written, right?
It's like way too much family history.
Like, I want to know some family history.
I don't want five generations back.
Like, I don't want to know the origination of their last name.
So why we're reading it is like, everyone wants to know the climb, right?
It's like, how did you, you guys, I just went through your entire, to get part of the prep for Charlie is listening to all of your Berkshire episodes, right?
Where you guys do a fantastic job on this.
Because like the first two is like the young Charlie, the young Warren.
So I would literally, and I've done this forever.
It's like, I don't, when you take a Warren Buffett or Ben Franklin or George Washington or anybody that's super famous, when we see them, it's like, oh, who's the Ben Franklin on the $100 bill, right?
Or who's Washington on the dollar bill?
Or who's Buffett at the meeting in Omaha?
It's like, no, no, that's the guy that is enjoying the fruits of the person that actually built the empire.
I go and stare at pictures like a freak of young Charlie Munger when he was like 38 or young Warren Buffett.
They were young people once.
It was the Buffett partnership.
You mentioned it on the Walmart episode where it's like everybody says, oh, Sam Walton didn't start Walmart until he was 44.
Yeah, but he was doing 25 years of practice and learning and he wasn't just sitting on his ass.
Starting a bunch of stuff that looked an awful lot like Walmart.
Yes, learning from that.
I'm glad you brought that up because I think this is why people get a lot of value.
And I don't want it to make us about, hey, this is an acquired founder show.
The reason that some of the people in our audiences are the most successful people in the world
They're all reading biographies.
They're all studying the history of business.
I told you guys a few weeks ago, I was very lucky to have a two-hour one-on-one lunch with Sam Zell that I didn't think was possible.
What I realized in that conversation is like, you don't make, you don't, Sam Zell sold his company for almost $40 billion, right?
$38 billion, whatever it was.
It's like, you don't build a company, sell it for $40 billion, and then learn all this.
It's like he was doing this since he was young.
We were talking in his autobiography, he talks about-
through the time they die.
I think that's what we're listening to Acquired and Founders is, is you're watching game tape of history's greatest entrepreneurs.
Sam did this when he was younger.
But this ties together where Bill Gurley had a fantastic quote about this, a tweet about this, when all that crypto was going crazy and like the run-up and people were getting rich.
And he's like, one thing I don't like, and I'm paraphrasing because I wasn't expecting to talk about this.
He's like, I don't like that these young, the younger people
denigrating the people that came before them.
And he's like, he made the point that none of history's greatest entrepreneurs and investors did that.
They had the opposite perspective.
All of them had idols.
You just made the point.
You can't understand Jeff Bezos until you study Sam Walton.
You can't understand Sam Walton until you understand JCPenney and Sol Price and all these guys.
They're learning machines.
And so you get to Charlie's, tying this all back to this, you get to Charlie's bookshelf, and it's just biographies I've never even heard of.
And I do this for a living.
I was like, what is this book?
And then I started looking.
I was like, oh, I'm just taking picture after picture after picture.
I was like, I'm ordering every single one.
I think about it all the time because people are like, oh, like survivorship bias or revisionist history and everything else.
It's like, here's the problem.
Like we humans don't see things as they are.
We see them as we are.
So like we could have this super long conversation between the three of us right now, then go into the other room and write down, you know, what just occurred.
And every single version is going to be different because it's viewed through all of our experience, the way we think, the words we use.
And so what I'm looking at is like when I'm reading about Sam Walton, right?
It's just like the story we both hit on all the podcasts because I've done a bunch of podcasts on Sam too.
Where it's like, the guy's pissed off, he's driving from store to store on these mountain roads, taking forever, so he buys the plane, and he realizes, oh, this is a massive advantage, because I'm doing something my competitors aren't, right?
I'm flying over, and you guys mentioned it too, which I thought was hilarious.
And then he just lands, and he's like, who owns that?
Let me land, and then he buys for action.
So he's like, we're going to negotiate right now.
I want to buy it from you.
And so my point is, OK, yes, that most likely occurred.
But what is the idea behind that?
You can have an advantage by doing something your competitors are not doing.
And this ties together what you just said.
It's like they all learn from somebody else.
When we're reading these books and listening to these podcasts, it's like, what's the idea I can use in my life?
We're not building the next Walmart.
There's no way we read Titan that we could tell, did this actually happen?
But I'm looking for the ideas behind it.
I'm going to verify for every single word in this book.
I wasn't expecting to quote Bill Gurley two times so far, but...
Because I know this is going to be a good episode.
That fantastic talk he gave, which to me is the best talk for entrepreneurs and investors on YouTube.
It's called Running Down a Dream, How to Survive and Thrive in a Career You Love.
He's like, listen, in the age of the internet, you don't have to be the smartest person.
Charlie Munger, after talking to him, whatever mind that dude has, I don't have that.
And I'm cool with that.
I could not imagine trying to compete against that guy 40 years ago.
He's got a super mind that I don't have.
But what Bill says is like, you don't have to be the smartest person, but you can collect the most information.
And he holds you to a high standard in that talk.
Bill's like, listen, in the age of the internet, all the information you possibly need, right, is right at your fingertips.
You have no excuse not to do this.
And so he gives the example of if you want to be a domain expert in whatever you're doing, like within two years of intense study, if you're doing that and you're focused on it, it's like you're going to get to the point where like, you know more than maybe anybody else.
And so that's my whole thing was like,
When you talk to... You've never met a founder or an entrepreneur that's kind of into entrepreneurship.
It's like, no, it's our lives.
So, of course, the reason why so many of them listen to both of our shows, it's because they're building machines where they literally can turn knowledge into profit.
I've become close friends with a guy through the podcast.
I don't mean to call him a kid.
But he's a lot younger than I am.
And he's like 28 years old.
And we were on the phone the other day because...
he had a very serious offer for a company he owns like 95% of, and they were going to give him $100 million, right?
He winds up saying no to it.
But the point is, when you talk to him, he's listened to all the episodes, he's read like 60 of the books, he'll text me a picture of like, he won't even tell me what the book, and I'm like, I'm pretty sure I read that.
He's like, oh yeah, it's from this episode.
What if he finds one idea in a book, one idea in a podcast, and it gives a 10% improvement on his company?
It's a $10 million idea.
Charlie tells a story.
He's like, yeah, I made $400 million from reading Barron's for 50 years.
And you're like, what the?
What are you talking about, Charlie?
And Charlie's like, well.
And how do you quantify that?
This isn't something he said at dinner.
I've heard him say it publicly.
He's like, I read Barron's all the time for 50 years.
I found one idea that I can act on.
I made $50 million on that deal.
And then I took that $50 million and I gave it to Leeloo.
I gave that $50 million.
I gave that $50 million to Li Lu, and Li Lu turned it into $400 million.
That's how I made $400 million from reading Barron's.
And listen, I'm not, and this is another thing where I feel like everybody's like, oh, this time is different.
It's like human nature has never changed.
It will never change.
This time is not different.
You're just experiencing, the difference is if you don't study the history of the people that came before you, you're just ignorant and making mistakes that people already saw in the past.
Learning from history is a form of leverage.
He has billions and billions of years of collectives like human history.
This guy spent 70 years and there's thousands of them.
And like Sam Walton's book, how many people spent 50 years in one industry, in the retail industry?
And he distilled it down to the most important.
And then wrote a book about it.
And then you could read it in a week and then you could listen to Acquire's episodes.
You can listen to David's episodes on Sam.
Because like the time.
I was just rewatching Peter Thiel's talk at Y Combinator.
He says, competition is for losers.
And he goes, one thing that we do in Silicon Valley is we overrate, overvalue growth rates and undervalue durability.
And he's like, that doesn't make sense for a technology company because all your profits, the vast majority of profits are 20 years in the future.
And so if you're trying to optimize for growth,
And that over-optimization can cause your company to go out of business.
You're never going to collect that.
You optimize your durability first, dummy.
That's to me, my interpretation of what he's saying, right?
Yeah, so you're going to get 1%, probably.
But that's still enormous leverage.
You are, but in a good way.
No, I definitely am not, for sure.
And that's going to be, like, we can talk about, did you guys read Jeff Bezos' last shareholder letter before he?
One of the best lines he has is at the end.
He's like, differentiation is survival.
And so they think about that, like how hard.
They say, let's say somebody says, damn, I love what Ben and David are doing.
I'm going to do the exact same thing.
They can jump in and try to do that, right?
But you have six years of experience.
You have 600 hours out there.
You have to counter position against us.
So being a nut job and completely crazy is, I think, makes you harder to compete with.
And it's also, we're going to go all over the map here, but it's impossible not to be that.
Like, think about how seeped you guys are in the same information that I am, where it always says, oh, you're the sum of your five friends or whatever, right?
Well, it's also like what you, you're the sum of your podcasts you listen to and the books you read.
Oh, it's your five friends, including your parasocial relationships.
And so now what happens is like you mentioned, dude, you won't even read like one book about him.
And so what happens is when I'm really interested in somebody, I listen to Bill Gurley.
Again, I just take advice from people who are smarter than me.
Bill said, go collect everything you can.
These are simple ideas.
And so I'll find somebody that's interesting.
I'll read everything about him.
I have like a little Charlie Munger on my shoulder.
I have a little Steve Jobs, a little Edwin Land, a little David Ogilvie, Estee Lauder, Coco Chanel, all these people that have been heroes of mine, James Dyson.
And so now I'm presented with a situation like, what would they do?
And you have, if you read and spend everything that's out there about these people, like you'll have an idea of like how they would respond.
Did you guys ever read Ken Kosienda's book, Creative Selection?
So he made the keyboard for when it was still Operation Purple or something.
He made Safari before the iPhone.
He has this excellent book that I've read like three times called Creative Selection.
I think how Apple designed products in the golden age of Steve Jobs might be the subtitle.
But he talked about that because he demoed to Steve, right?
You're not going to describe it to him.
You're going to demo, and you're going to hand it to him.
You guys already know this.
They iterate through a series of demos.
And it's based on Steve's taste.
He is not, oh, let's talk about this.
It's like, nope, do this, do this, that.
And so Ken has a great line in the book where he's like,
Demoing for Steve is like asking questions to the Oracle of Delphi, except the Oracle of Delphi would respond with a riddle.
And he's like, no, no, Steve was unbelievably crystal clear.
Out of every single person I've ever studied, Steve Jobs is by far the clearest thinker I have ever come across.
He's just gifted at that.
Charlie is like the Oracle and it's crystal clear.
You are not like you are going to understand what he's the idea he's trying to get into your brain for sure.
But my point being is like all of the people that we study, they don't denigrate the past.
Steve Jobs, the reason I'm so obsessed with Evan Land.
I read in a biography.
When Steve was in his 20s, Edwin Land is in his 70s, he goes and meets Edwin Land and he goes, visiting Edwin Land was like visiting a shrine.
He's like, he is my hero.
More people should try to be like that.
And then you guys made the point that Jeff Bezos took a lot of ideas from Sam.
Who took a bunch of ideas from Sony too?
So you always find these people where you're like, oh, I thought this was a Steve Jobs idea.
It's an Akio Morita idea.
Or an Edwin Land idea.
Or an Edwin Land idea.
Like when we used to watch the presentations that Steve would give where he's like, oh, we're building at the intersection of technology and liberal arts.
He put it up on screen.
He ripped that off wholesale.
It's literally Edwin Land.
said that exact word.
But that's the point.
It's like, you're never going to find anybody gets to the top of their profession without doing the work, like studying the people that came before them and learning from them and admiring them.
You know our mutual friend Jeremy from Formula of Tiny?
I just spent a bunch of hours with him.
He psychoanalyzed me better than anybody else ever has.
He goes, you didn't have any mentors growing up.
Then you took it to this extreme.
And he said it much more eloquently than I am.
But he's like, you didn't have any mentors.
So I view your career as this psychopathic search for mentors that can help you.
So to answer your question, I don't want to go into too much detail here.
Like, I've only had one habit my whole life, and that was reading.
I was reading for as long as I can remember.
My mom passed away from breast cancer a couple years ago, and we didn't have, like, a lot of money.
Like, long story, but, like, I was the first person, not only to graduate college, but, like, high school in my family.
Like, I came from a family, like, unfortunately, both sides of the family, like, no education, a lot of, like, just bad habits.
So I identify a lot with what Charlie Munger says because he essentially observes bad behavior and then tries to do the opposite, right?
I was just, let me give you an example.
I was just up in Canada, actually at an event Andrew Wilkinson was hosting for a bunch of entrepreneurs.
Me, Shane Parrish from the Knowledge Project, and Farnam Street was up there, Ben Wilson from How to Take Over the World, and we were doing this panel together.
And Shane's the moderator, and we don't know what we're going to talk about beforehand.
And so Shane asked the question, it's like, oh, what did you learn most from your upbringing or something like that, right?
And I go, I learned not to do cocaine and to graduate high school.
So that kind of thing, right?
And so there was just a bunch of anti-models.
I thought about this as I was walking through the tenderloin this morning in San Francisco.
And I was like, I should do this walk with my daughter as the best.
Like, hey, this is why you don't do drugs.
Like, this is the perfect example.
Like, you observe bad behavior and then you do the opposite.
I've always been obsessed with reading.
One of the best things my mom ever did was, even if we didn't have money for books, she would take me to the bookstore and just sit there.
Bookstores are so cool because they just let you read.
No one comes here and is like, hey, you've been reading for an hour.
You've got to get out of here.
And just read and read and read.
Yeah, but no, she wasn't a big reader.
The only thing she read was the Bible.
There was no books in the house when I was younger, ever.
So how did you be like, mom, take me to the bookstore?
All I can say is my wife has known me for 15 years, and her thing, what she says is, she likes my family and gets along with them, but she goes, how did that...
It sounds like you have a classic, like, you're the one who made it out story.
Sam Hinckley, our mutual friend, actually gave me the way to think about this.
And it's called The Founder of Your Family.
And it's the person that, and I used to call them, and it was a terrible name, but generational inflection points.
Because you'd read this in a biography where you have generation after generation of just not good things happening.
And then one person just says, it stops now.
I always think of Sam Bronfman, the guy that did Seagram's.
And he's in Canada growing up.
Their parents had lost so much money, they think they were Jewish and they had to escape from persecution in Russia.
I can't remember where they came from, but they go and they have to start all over and they're in Canada and there's no heating and they're freezing.
So he has this psychopathic drive to change, but that stays with you forever.
So once he builds this massive company,
and literally changes the trajectory of all of his descendants.
And his daughter's an adult, and she tells a story in the book where Sam is sitting there in a mansion next to a fire, shivering, thinking about how embarrassing it was to have to go to school with tighter clothing.
That guy's never going to go back to that.
And he never loses it.
So I've just always been a reader.
That's the only thing I've ever... The only one unbroken habit I've always had.
And so I just had this idea.
I was obsessed with podcasts forever.
I was obsessed with audio before there was such a thing as a podcast.
I would listen to talk radio when I was a kid.
And at that time, it's...
There's no on-demand anything.
You would listen to sports talk radio, politics talk radio.
There was this woman that used to be on at night.
People would write in advice for their love life, and I'd listen to that.
Just the idea of there's all this information.
And then remember, like I remember, so you have the jump up from that and then the AM radio stations would then start streaming to your browser internet.
It still wasn't on demand.
So if you're not listening at three o'clock or 12, like you miss it.
His was like broadcasting audio for sports games though, I think.
It's like an era of... It's broadcast.com, right?
That was just streamed radio.
No, the first on-demand was... The first time I saw this, I was like, this is insane.
Like, especially for people that are, like, you know, learning machines using Charlies, where it's like, I can...
Even today, like they do, you can go to any podcast player, type in whatever you want to learn about, and then you can hear somebody that's usually spent hundreds of hours teaching you about this stuff.
But you made a good, I think you were getting to a good point.
It's like because the business model didn't support that.
And so now... And there was no distribution.
And now with podcasting, it's like, you guys, you know, I'm sure, I think like 50, I don't ever look at analytics, but I think last time I looked, it was like 50% of my audience was in the United States, but then everywhere.
And so I was doing, the early days of founders, I was just, I remember it all changed because I couldn't figure out the business model.
So you would do like affiliate, you know, at that time, I remember...
Yeah, so when I first started, they were like, hey, you contact the few podcast advertising networks there were back then.
Because you guys started your show in 2016, right?
Okay, so I started in 2016.
They're like, yeah, we can do ads for your show.
You need like 25,000 downloads an episode.
And at the time, I'm like, I'll never get there.
Obviously, we've skyrocketed past that.
But that's impossible.
That's like as many people as in a basketball arena.
I never think about it.
You know what I think about it?
How my show's set up is why I say you and I. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I like how you treat the audience as like the person you're reading.
And I've done this forever.
I remember it's one of my friends that we met up one day and I was like, man, I think I'm going to try to make a business around the fact that I read so much.
And he called me like six months ago or a year ago.
He's like, I can't believe you did that.
Because he's like, I thought you were, that was the dumbest thing I ever heard.
But I just picture him when I started.
It's like, oh, the whole idea behind the show was like, what if you got to meet up once a week with your friend that reads a lot and he just tells you the stuff that he read that week, like interesting ideas.
So one thing, we don't have like a bunch of prepared stuff, but one thing us three talked about was like, hey, why don't we talk about like who was your influence on why you do what you do?
And so I feel the greatest podcaster of all time is Dan Carlin from Hardcore History.
That's, like, my—I think he's, like, I can't believe what that guy does, right?
Well, there's another guy that was—
that, so I took Dan Carlin, I was like, I was obsessed with him.
I've listened to all his episodes.
For like years, you talked about falling asleep.
I did that too, but I fell asleep to Dan Carlin.
So I'd over and over and over again, to now where I listen to him, I'm like, it's like, it's like.
Yeah, it's like, no, don't wake, it's not nighttime, bro, wake up.
But there was another one that a friend of mine put me on.
There's this comedian named Bill Burr.
He does the Monday morning podcast.
He used to do it every Monday.
Now he does, I think, Monday and Thursdays, right?
He is one of the first podcasters.
When he was podcasting his first episodes, at the time, he would call into a number and record, right?
And then there was a service that would transform that recording from your phone into audio.
An MP3 that you could publish on.
This is way before, like, anything.
It's the same thing you see in the books that you're reading, though.
Like Sam Walton, when you tell the story where his landlord screws him over and he goes, he goes, I'm not whipped.
Yes, Walmart is a huge success.
You guys made the point that there was a great point where it's like you're never going to think 25 years in the future when there's watermelons and donkey crap on the ground that this is going to be the richest family in the world, right?
And the most standardized form of retail.
And so you see like, oh, that same guy that became the richest person in the world that his now family has a rich family or whatever.
he's imperfect too, just like I am.
And so that is the only benefit of listening to an early acquired or early founder is like, oh, you see the improvement.
Just like in the books, you see the improvement.
It's like the 2017 era.
I think you're never going to be embarrassed about your latest episode at the time we're making this is LVMH.
You're never going to be embarrassed about that.
It doesn't mean you can't keep improving 10 years from now.
And I heard from a ton of other people how much they liked it.
So I do this all the time where, like, I'll go back and listen to old episodes because people are like, that's weird.
You don't listen to a podcast.
It's like, no, this is a tool.
That's how you get better.
No, we didn't even try to get better.
It's like, I was like, oh, I haven't read that book in, like, two years.
I'll just listen to my episode on it.
And it, like, it's a tool for me.
That's how I know it's good for other people.
And so I was like – and then I'll listen to it.
I'm like, oh, wow, I forgot that.
I need to keep that idea in my mind.
But I'll hear myself like, oh, you said that in two paragraphs.
That could have been one paragraph.
That doesn't make sense.
And so, yeah, I understand the improvement.
But what I'm saying is your quality is already super high.
Like, it can increase and get better.
But, like, you're never going to be embarrassed.
You're just like, oh, I could probably do it 20%, 30% better, which is still excellent from the –
You're still a one-man show, right?
No one touches anything.
I'm going to answer your question, but I also think like we should – this is a perfect point to like how we became friends and why like I'm putting this out on my feed and no one – you're going to be the first non-David Senra voices that ever heard on Founders.
And I only agree to do it with you guys is because like this goes back to like why I want to be surrounded with, first of all, people that have like interest, super smart people, but also people that have like positive some thinking, right?
Patrick O'Shaughnessy has this gigantic, successful show, Invest Like the Best.
He's got Colossus Podcast Network.
His fund is called Positive Sum, and that's how he acts.
I joined his network.
This is like months later.
And they're like, hey, we have editors, whatever.
He has this empire over there.
And resources, he's like, what do you want?
And I was like, I just want you to amplify my audience and then connect me with first-rate advertisers.
Because I think Acquired is a luxury podcast.
We've got to go over the distinction there.
But we're saying, no, no.
We're trying to set the bar here.
But anyways, he's like, hey, do you want editors?
Do you want any of this stuff?
No one gets to touch my stuff.
Like, people think, oh, like, do they tell you what books to read?
And I'm like, no, Patrick liked my show.
And he's just like, why would I tell you?
Like, just whatever you're doing, just do it to more people now.
And so to answer your question, no.
Like, I pick the books.
I'm still a one-person show.
I don't know if that'll happen forever.
But I do think the fact that I just spend so much time with the material gets it in my brain.
But the reason that, like, I want to talk about the role you guys played in that, where we were getting on Zoom.
and for like the background here is like you know we had known of each other i talked to ben a long time ago because he was running this this private podcast this is like years ago um and so anyways we're like they're you're that's also funny to think back like all the dead ends that we went like we went down a ton of them you went down a ton of you're about to talk about some of them like there's so many dead ends but they're in the books too yeah but they're in the book that's exactly changed the name of the show to adapting oh my god that was that was that was
But there's no way to learn rather than screw up.
Do you want to know the first name of founders?
You know, like in your RSS feed, you can change the name, right?
But you can't change the link.
Like it'll still say.
So you look at it from mine and it's Autotelic.
Autotelic comes from this book called Flow.
How do you even spell that?
A-U-T-O-T-E-L-I-C, maybe.
I can't spell for it.
I can't spell, pronounce.
I was like, I don't pay attention to any of that stuff.
Is that the Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi?
It is an activity that you do for the sake of itself.
Going back to your question, it's like, I just love to read.
I'm going to do this if no one listens.
That's how I know I'm going to win.
Because people are like, oh, would you do it for free?
It's like, no, no, I paid to do this.
For like a long time.
Like I literally said, I'm going to quit and I'm going to, I have the savings.
I have a wife and a baby or a daughter to support.
Now I have a son, a wife, a daughter and a son.
And I was like, I bet you, I just put trust in myself.
It's just like, I'm going to, if I focus on this seven days a week, I'll figure out the business model.
I know, like, I don't think I'll ever get rich from it.
But I will at least pay my bills, right?
And so like every month I'm like, oh, less money there.
And like, so I pay to do it.
So the idea where like, you know, again, people get, I think Steve Jobs talks about this, like the older he gets, he says something like the older he gets, the more he realizes why people do things matters.
And so he's always asking those questions.
Like I always say, it's like, how do you know that you found what you love to do?
And people are like, oh, because I wouldn't sell my company.
It's like, OK, there's another level.
It's like, how much would you have had to pay Steve Jobs to stop working at Apple?
The answer is, he wouldn't take all the money in the world.
How much would you have to pay Charlie Monroe?
Yeah, but, like, think about that.
Like, the idea is, like, he's not doing it for money.
He's in a different game.
He's doing it for the sake of itself.
And so I went through a bunch of different names.
History's Greatest Men, History's Greatest, like, History, all these terrible names.
And I just started narrowing it more and more and more to, like...
And I was like, oh, that's perfect.
It was just, like, the idea I had known about, like, Warren Buffett, Elon Musk, and all these other people.
And I remember you had Kevin Rose on your show a long time ago.
So you guys remember his.
Again, not that long ago.
Maybe a year, year and a half.
It was like one of the first high quality.
Imagine if he would have stuck with that show.
Like, it would have been a monster.
Elon had the Model S. That's it.
Elon had the Model, that was the only thing.
He was just about to release the Model S. He had the Roadster.
No, no, they were in the factory because I watched it all the time.
They were in the factory building the Model S. That's right.
So it was, I don't know if you could buy it yet, but it was like coming or whatever.
And Elon looks way younger and like, you know.
And then in 2015, Tim Ferriss, I was a big fan of his podcast.
I'd read, like, you know, 4-Hour Workweek.
It's just only our demographic was.
Actually, that made me think of something.
Let me interrupt this story, because I think it's really important.
You're like, oh, is anybody going to listen to our, like, no one's going to listen to our Amazon episode.
They already know it.
And so this is something that, like, Engineering Queen becomes the most successful.
Are you going to quote Ogilvy?
I've listened to enough founders to know.
Yeah, because it's like this is so key that people don't understand.
It's like you're not advertising to a standing army.
You're advertising to a moving parade.
And so like I will literally get on calls with like media company founders that are like selling ads or like building companies.
And I'm like, oh, yeah, you must have read Ogilvy.
And I was like, these are not new lessons.
And again, this comes from the humility to realize, hey, Warren Buffett's smarter than me.
So if that dude in his shareholder letters is saying, David Ogilvie's a genius, I'm like, wait a minute.
This dude, how many businesses has Warren Buffett looked at at that point?
How many founders and managers has he looked at when he's like, this dude's a genius?
This is not rocket science, guys.
Just go and like, let's search David Ogilvie on Amazon.
These days, it's search David Ogilvie on your podcast player of choice.
Wait, but explain the Standing Army versus.
So you're not advertising to Standing Army.
You're advertising to Moving Parade.
But what happens is, like, even when you put on the Sequoia episode, right?
Me and David went on a hike in Stanford, and I was like, dude, you have this crazy back catalog.
Every single day, you have more people following your podcast feed than you had the day before.
I was like—and because I knew this because I was a subscription podcast, right?
Recount briefly your business model journey.
I'll give you a shorter breakdown because I went through so many of them.
I just put a hard paywall.
Listen to the first 30 minutes.
You want to listen to all of them.
This is when we had that chat that you were talking about.
And so you guys, we had this hike.
This is all going to be an idea.
Remember, not my idea.
I don't, like, everything has already been done, guys.
I'm speaking to the people listening, not you.
You obviously know this.
Like, we've already been done.
Hey, that person's smart.
He learned from 40-year career.
Like, you're not going to pick up on an idea you can use as silly.
I was thinking about this.
It's the combination of these ideas.
Like Sam Walton taking Sol Price's ideas and his competitor's ideas and like, hey, what about, you guys are kind of ignoring these like 4,000 person communities.
I'm pretty sure like the thesis behind Walmart is like, will they just drive far distances just to save money?
But that isn't a novel idea.
You guys combined David Ogre's idea by republishing your Socorro podcast, and then you text me, and you're like, oh my god, the downloads are crazy.
And because the vast majority, because you're not podcasting to a standing army, you're podcasting to a moving parade.
And so I had known this because through my experimentation, I would take an old episode that I had done,
do a preview, throw it up, and you'd get conversions every time because it was new to them.
And that was like, so Ogilvy, I credit Ogilvy for that idea.
That's an idea he got from Claude Hopkins and Albert Lasker who were building advertising businesses 50 years before him.
Is this Scientific Advertising?
That book, Scientific Advertising, sold like 8 or 10 million copies.
They kept it in Albert Lasker.
So Claude Hopkins worked for Albert Lasker.
And Albert Lasker thought that book was so good, he stored it in a vault.
He wouldn't let any, he's like, he built.
Because it was like the secrets of the industry, right?
I learned that because in Ogilvy and Advertising, at the very end of the book, David's like, here, these are the six giants that I learned from.
So I was like, okay, well, then I'm going to Google search.
Who's, like, I'm going to read the book.
This is not rocket science, again.
So then he's like, oh, Albert Lasker made more money than anybody else in the history of the advertising business.
And so then you realize it's like, he says in the book, he's like, his estate outside of Chicago was so big he had 40 full-time employees.
Like, what are you talking about?
Like, make these words make sense in my mind.
That doesn't make any sense to me.
So you read Albert Lasker, and then he tells you about Claude Hopkins.
He's like, yeah, the information was so good that I stored that in my vault for 20 years.
And then once he sold his advertising, or I think he gave it away like a token, like $100,000 to the people working there.
And then they released it, and Claude went off on his own and everything else.
But you probably have pretty good conversion, right?
The conversion rates were higher, but you guys said... You were at a local maximum.
This is where you were very helpful.
Like, David, first of all, and you guys are nice.
This is not the language you use.
But you guys are so nice.
It's like, dude, you're doing it wrong.
Listen, for every one person, I think it was Ben that said this, for every one person that would buy a podcast, there's 1,000 or 100 that would listen to them for free.
Yeah, probably even more than that.
And so then you guys would show me, you open the kimono.
You're like, these are our downloads.
This is who we advertise with.
This is what we charge for advertising.
You made the good point earlier, and we can elaborate on that, why you're so psychotic about this sentence needs to get out of here, like these two sentences, let's remove it, because if you could factor in the average hourly rate of the people in your audience, it is unbelievable.
So even, I think, if you make, what, a million dollars a year, and we know people, obviously, in our audiences make a lot more than that, but I think a million dollars a year is, what, 500 bucks an hour or something like that?
I don't know the math.
I'm not a good math person.
But, like, so you're asking if they listen to an hour-long podcast of founders, it's like...
You cannot waste these people's time.
So I never answer your question when you're like, hey, how do you guys think about this?
Do you re-edit or do you cut them out?
I use Descript as well.
I actually think the way I listen to founders is obviously listening to it and listening and reading.
The superpower of podcasts is you can listen to it when you're doing something else.
But when you're editing.
But I think I'm going to put all my podcasts up on YouTube.
I don't have any video.
But I think I'm going to use Descript.
Some people have success just putting up the audio on a static picture.
And you can listen to it on YouTube.
But I also think, well, if I'm going to do that, I might as well just have this, and that's kind of cool if you want to use it but don't have to.
I'm using it just for search.
I don't think I'm ever going to do video anything because it's so much simpler to do.
Literally, what I'm saying is I'm going to upload the MP3 to YouTube.
Like I'm not making a video just because it is.
They're eventually going to have.
They're eventually going to have like the podcast player inside of YouTube.
They released this like 40-page document I read on their podcast goals on YouTube.
Did I send it to you guys?
I'll send it to you guys.
So right now I have YouTube Premium so you can listen to them in the background like a podcast player.
But they need to have podcast functionality.
It's still like a video.
So anyways, the way I do it is like, yes, I'm very aware that who's listening.
I'm not ever going to waste a lot of their time.
And what I've found with the more practice I have for the podcast is I'm able to edit on the fly.
Like I don't have a script, right?
So like I'll go through the book.
I highlight, then write down whatever pops in my mind.
First of all, the highlights are like, am I excited about that?
Oh, that's interesting.
Just go off instinct, right?
and then write down something that, oh, that's like this, or that made me think of this, and I just write it down, right?
Then I'll reread all these highlights the night before I record, so it's like the second time.
Physical books, yeah.
That happens after... So the fifth time, every single book I do, I think I read the highlights five times.
And the fifth time is me actually taking pictures of the physical book and putting it in ReadWise.
So Jeff... I was thinking about this yesterday because I'm also slightly obsessed with Jeff Bezos.
And he's slightly obsessed with a lot of founders.
That's why we were like, you're like, we're sitting in chairs.
Like, dude, I'm going to be forward.
We were setting up the camera angles before.
Cause you know what I love?
Do you ever, have you ever watched the old Jeff Bezos interviews when he's like first starting Amazon?
He's like skinny and bald.
I think this is the one he's like sitting, like you see grasping at him.
I don't know if he's in a field.
But he like leans forward.
And he's like, we're going to be the most customer obsessed company ever.
And he's got that look on his face.
That's how I am about founders.
You're like, that dude's a psycho.
But Jeff says something that he is.
But Jeff says something in Invent and Wander, which is an excellent book.
Because it's all of his shareholder letters and transcripts of his speeches.
and all of his transcripts of his speeches, and he goes, do you really want to live in a world, or to compete against somebody that's as good as you?
Like, I certainly wouldn't, that's what he states.
And he's like, if you read his shareholder letters and listen to him talk, he's like, he's constantly looking for unfair advantages.
And I think part of the fact that I have now,
Over 20,000 highlights from hundreds of books.
And I still have like 50 or 60 or maybe 80 books I haven't put in there yet that are in my library.
So it's like that's my ReadWise account is an unfair advantage.
Because anytime somebody's talking, it's like I can immediately, oh, you said something?
I search for that term and it pulls up.
And it's like, oh, and then I see my highlight and I see my note.
Like so long to do that, but it's worth the extra five or 10 hours a week.
Yes, because I'm reading something.
No, I know I've seen this before.
Type in that term and it pulls up every single instant.
It's an unfair advantage that I have with me all the time.
Well, what I'll do is, like, whenever I'm, like, waiting for an Uber today, right?
Just pull up Readwise, and Readwise has the highlights feed.
And I'll show you guys what it looks like.
It looks a lot like a Twitter feed, right?
So I'm not choosing this.
And instead of me reading Twitter all day, which is not a good use of your time, it's this highlight from the Dodge Brothers.
I haven't read that book.
You know, that was like episode, you know, probably like the 115th.
Billy Durant, who's the founder of GM.
No, it's just repopulated your own.
So it's my form of practice.
there on your phone so is that what like how how many times a day like how often are you just pulling up readwise and almost every day and if i'm not doing it on readwise i'll go to like my bookshelves so what will happen is um you can pull a book off my shelf and i'm thinking about this for like my kids
long after I'm gone, my kids can like, what was my dad into?
You know, and they can go back and see, oh, and when he was 35 or 38, this is the podcast he made.
Let me go find that book.
And then they can pull off the shelf like, oh, this is the line he thought was interesting.
Oh, wow, you see dad's handwriting here.
And like, so I use this for myself where I can pick up a book and quote unquote, read it, reread it in 30 minutes by rereading my highlights and notes.
And now I'm like, it's back in front of mind.
And then what happens is like,
You can do this anytime.
People are like, oh, I'm running late for lunch.
I always have stuff to do with me.
But I use it as a form of practice.
The reason I said this is like, it sounds stupid.
People think it's maybe, maybe they think it's silly.
But I read this book.
It's episode 212 of Founders.
It's called Michael Jordan, The Life.
It's a 600-page biography.
It's only because I reference that all the time.
So if you look up something over and over again... Yeah.
Everything in life is repetition.
Sam Walton's career is repetition.
Like, it's like... I just think you're trying to... This is what I asked Charlie.
One of the most interesting things he said, he's like, one of the best things that ever happened to me is I got rich later in life.
He saw the time and how difficult it was.
He was talking about imagine you being super famous or rich when you're 21 or 25 and how disorienting.
He's like, I was a full-grown man with life experiences with a wife and kids.
Yeah, I did not mention that.
But he had a full life experience and therefore also
the main problem that happens is people don't know.
They're like, I was the son of a poor man.
Now I'm rich and my kids live an unbelievable amount of wealth and privilege.
How do I deal with that?
That comes up in the books for hundreds of years.
The answer is no one knows, right?
And so with Charlie though, the benefit is he didn't have a famous last name or a lot of wealth.
His kids were like grown.
They wouldn't have to deal with that when you're five or seven or 10.
He also gave me some advice that was fascinating.
Well, so how do you deal with this, though, right?
Like, he's a multibillionaire.
Like, that's an insane... Right.
So I just read this fantastic book.
I like reading obscure books because, go back to what Jeff Bezos said, differentiation is survival.
So, like, I'll find, like, weird books.
Like, me and Sam were in this weird... I was searching for books for you guys yesterday.
I will order them and bring some to you because I always bring books.
And I was really... We went to three different bookstores.
You brought energy drinks instead.
But no, bless Sam and his patience with me.
And drove me all around Menlo Park and Palo Alto yesterday going to bookstores.
I was literally looking for you guys.
You had specific books in mind.
I like going to used bookstores.
My interpretation of you guys in my mind, and I just know if this book is good for that person.
Like the Henry Flagler book, I knew that was good for Charlie Munger because of what he said.
So I don't know what's going to happen.
Now, I do have two books picked out for you guys, which I'll send you, but they're like newer books.
Yeah, and Sam's unbelievably intelligent, and she's got a weird alien brain, as I always tell them.
Our mutual friend Mitchell Baldrige, that all three of us know, says Sam has a giga brain.
I think it's what he said, his description of it.
But I like obscure books.
I read this book that's very hard to find.
It's called The Invisible Billionaire.
Daniel Ludwig was the richest person in the world in the 80s, and no one knew who he was.
He paid a public relations firm to keep his name out of the papers.
Do what your competitors don't.
Yeah, so he was just like, I don't want to be known.
And a lot of his was like shipping and oil and refining and mining and all that other stuff.
But the author makes the point in the book that how different a million and a billion is, going back to Charlie Munger, right?
And he goes, a million dollars in a stack of $100 bills is like 40 inches.
A billion dollars in a stack of $100 bills would be three times taller than the Empire State Building.
And so like for us, like, oh, that guy's kind of rich.
It's like, no, the billionaire and millionaires are not in the same category.
It's so disorienting.
So they're not similar at all.
What was a lot of people were asking, like think about all the wealthy people that Charlie talks to.
And they're asked, like, okay, what do I do with, like, this wealth with my kids?
And it's like, you know, if you give your kids a bunch of money, is it going to demotivate them?
And Charlie goes, of course it's going to.
So he's like, but he's like, you know, it's like, again, like, this should be obvious to you.
So he says, don't try to steer his kids or his grandkids into what they should do for a living, which is Charlie Munger's, one of his best piece of advice that I took to heart.
It's like, follow your natural drift.
Like, how I pick books.
There's been like 15 or 20 that I've read completely or half.
And it's like, I don't like this book.
I'm not making an episode about it.
I go to my bookshelf and I have like probably 80 or 100 books I haven't read yet.
Most come from the audience.
And I was like, what am I most excited to learn about now?
And that's how I pick it, right?
So Following Natural Drift.
So he's like, don't try to steer them too much.
And he definitely feels that some of them are going to be less motivated because they're born rich.
But he said this was the most surprising thing.
But he goes, you have to give them the money anyways or they're going to hate you for it.
And I was like, that's, like, because my answer before this, I've read so many, like, family dynasty stories, and I'm not saying I'm trying to build a dynasty.
Or no, they did, and it ruined them.
Like, did you guys, you guys haven't done an episode on TCI, John Malone, Caleb Cowboy?
That was one of the books that was recommended the most.
They're like, you gotta do Cable Cowboy, you gotta do Cable Cowboy, you gotta do Cable Cowboy.
We both have read the book, it's awesome.
And so you know the story I'm about to tell you, where the crazy thing is like, I'm always thinking about, I didn't understand this before dedicating my life to studying history, right?
Where it's like, oh, wow, the decisions I'm making now can reverberate through the generations.
Where Bob Magnus, which is the founder of TCI, he doesn't have any monies.
And rural Texas wants to jump into this new industry cable, right?
Full of cowboys, literal cowboys.
And he doesn't have money.
So his dad gives him a $2,500 loan.
So Bob takes that $2,500 loan and then...
Let's say 40 years later, Bob dies, and he's got to pass on his money, right, that was created from the company he created to his two kids.
And he winds up giving them, I think, I don't know the numbers.
I want to say like $200 million each, two sons.
So think about that one decision.
I think I talked about it in the episode.
And if I didn't, it's a big mess up on my part.
And I stopped in that part.
I'm pretty sure you did.
Like, what if his dad didn't give him the $2,500?
Yeah, he's been talking about that.
Yeah, so his $2,500 turns into $400 million, let's say $200 million each for his grandsons.
Changed his grandsons' lives.
That wealth is gone because I think it went up their nose.
Like, that was... It's pretty hard in one generation to... But I don't know, like, the point was, it's like, that wasn't good for them because they were not motivated.
They did a bunch of drugs.
I think they went to jail.
Like, that kind of stuff.
And you see that so much.
So my thought was like, oh, like, get them a little bit, but not enough that they don't have to work or whatever.
And Charlie's like...
They're going to hate you.
That's such a good insight.
It's just like human nature.
This is my biggest takeaway from Charlie, and I think the biggest benefit that people that listen to Founders Unacquired and then hopefully read a bunch of the books and do studying on their own are going to realize.
This is like, Charlie, I said it at the top of my notes, and this is the first thing.
The conversation I had with Charlie was comforting the same way that people tell me listening to founders is comforting.
It's like Charlie has an almost complete indifference to problems.
Troubles from time to time should be expected.
So why would you let it bother you?
And the difference – and if you think about – that's the main takeaway from this three-hour dinner I had with him, right?
And if you think about how does he avoid this, he avoids it by great things have less problems.
You're never going to escape problems.
But if you're around great people, like they're not going to throw up – just like a great business doesn't throw up big problem after big problem after big problem.
Your wife, your kids, your friends, your coworkers –
His whole thing is aim for the highest quality you can get.
And then that's going to solve 99% of your problems.
And then when you have the problem, the inevitable problems are still going to come, okay, you just deal with it.
He talked about when he lost the money on Alibaba.
He brought that up, that people try to make fun of him for or whatever.
It's like, you guys are missing the point.
You're not going to escape, get through life without making mistakes.
The founder of Ikea has this great quote where he says, making mistakes is the privilege of the active.
Only those asleep make no mistakes.
Me even giving you an answer to that is like there's this guy named Charles Kettering.
I don't know how to pronounce his name.
I read his biography.
I think it's episode 127 or something like that.
So he invented the electric starter.
That gets acquired by GM.
He is the head of research and development at GM when GM is the most valuable company and the cutting edge of technology company in the world at the time.
There's a story from his wife and his daughter in that book saying, hey, when he dies, there's only going to be three words on his tombstone.
Because that's what he would say over and over and over again.
He's having this conversation.
He was the son of a poor man.
He is now a rich man.
He's talking to other people that have the same experience, his peers.
They're like, what do you do?
And the answer they came up with, I don't know.
Because it's so dependent on who the person is.
Maybe you give them money going to Bob Magnus' grandsons.
Maybe they're like Warren Buffett's kids where they run foundations and they want to give the money away.
And I don't think they're coke addicts.
But it's just dependent on the person.
If there was a correct answer, I think some of these guys would have figured it out.
So it's, I have no idea.
Really, that's the biggest thing where I think this is one of the lessons I learned from the podcast where, you know, you mentioned this at the beginning, Ben, where most of these people are just so, they're like best in class in this one dimension in the world.
And of course, to get that, they had to be poured, they had to, they couldn't optimize all other areas of the life at what they did for like their work.
right you know Sam Walton is one of the rare guys where he gets to the end he knows he's dying because he's got cancer all over his body when he's writing that book and he's like listen if I could do everything again he's like yeah I missed some of my kids childhood they worked in the stores and he took them with him but he's like
I had to get after it.
A lot of them, you know, get to the end of their life and like, oh, I regret.
The founder of Ikea has the best words on this.
He said, you know, I had three sons growing up.
He started Ikea when he was like 17, worked on it until he was like 80 something.
And he's like, I sacrificed my three sons' childhoods.
He goes, anybody that has kids knows that childhood does not allow itself to be reconquered.
Um, and so like we were hanging out today, we were going to do a recording, go to dinner.
And I was, my plan was, I was, I want to see my son.
He's like, and my daughter, it's like, I'm going to take the red eye.
And then I realized it's like, yeah, but I want to spend time with David and Ben.
So I'm leaving early tomorrow morning, but it's like, I'm doing this as fast as possible.
And if I had to, I'd like fly back and forth because like,
Your kids are, think about like the relationship you guys have with your parents.
Are they still alive?
So you get to talk to them, see them, but you have your whole life, right?
When your kids are small, there's like this tiny window when they're like two to five to six where you're everything to them.
You and I have talked about it.
Even my 10-year-old daughter, like right now, she wants to spend time with me.
Like it was the cutest thing ever.
I was leaving, going to L.A.
to see Charlie and then coming up to San Francisco to see you guys.
She goes, I'm wearing your sweater because like it makes me feel close to you like while you're gone.
You know what I mean?
But if you ask her, do you want to spend movie night with dad and mom or do you want to go play Roblox with your friends?
their friends and she loves me don't get me wrong but like their their friends are way they're really important to them yeah where like every day i miss my son's about to turn three it's like i'm not gonna get back that day and there's only like a thousand of those days yeah and my wife won't have any more kids even though i was like i don't want a bunch of kids like i want a bunch and it's like no way i say hey you're the i don't have to get pregnant so that's fine
What people get wrong is they're like, oh, I want to meet this guy.
You have to do the work necessary to make them worth your time, right?
Which is like the unfair advantage that the three people sitting in this room have.
is that it doesn't matter.
That's why in the last six weeks, I've gone to lunch or dinner with multiple billionaires.
And the people that you get to talk to and all this other stuff, it's like, this dude is crazy.
He's read 300 biographies of entrepreneurs.
There's no way I'm going to have dinner with him and not pick up one idea.
And then now I've built this machine where like, oh, that's an interesting idea.
I'll just plug it into this business.
And it's not a financial transaction by any means, but there's no...
The reason it's not that, like, Charlie was the first person I met that I was actually nervous about.
And the reason I'm not nervous is because I know I've done the work.
Like, you can't put me in a room with anybody on the planet, and I'm not going to be able to tell them at least one interesting thing.
It doesn't mean I'll be the best dinner they've ever had in their life.
That's not what I'm saying.
It's just, like, they're going to hear something that's, like, oh, that's interesting, and, like, go through their own brain.
And it's only because I've spent six years, and same with you guys.
It's, like, oh, you should feel comfortable.
Like you guys mentioned earlier, it's, like,
Your audience feels like two football fields and like, oh, it's a little bit of like...
You didn't use the word insecurity, but a little nervousness.
I want these people to like me.
But you know, you've most likely read... You know more about the subject than they do.
It's hard to not have the product be good because you did the work, I guess is my point.
The point I was making there, though, is...
Like because you guys do so much preparation and like it's now your life's work, like it's just so much – it's going to be so hard not to add value to the people in your lives.
Whether it's like friends that never show up on a podcast or friends that like you don't have a business relationship with.
It's like – and like you're just going to add value because what you do is so rare.
Like I – Naval Ravikant has this – he's influenced my thinking a lot too.
And he has this thing in The Almanac of Naval by our friend Eric Jorgensen.
And he's just like, if you read an hour a day, that puts you in the .0001% of humans.
And I'm like, that can't be true.
believe that i was having dinner with the same friend uh that was telling me like i told him oh i'll try to build a business around like uh my reading this is like a couple months ago and he's like you vastly overestimate how much people read he goes how much do you how many books a year do you think the average person reads i was like i don't know 12 it's like 0.5 zero i remember asking a book publisher he said america reads a book a year they well he quoted some other study i said 12 he's like
no not 12 he's like it's zero they average is zero yeah it's crazy and yeah to your point I've become friends with a bunch of writers some of them I met through the podcast and they've been telling me like teaching me about the publishing industry and just breaking down like 98% of books ever published sell less than 5,000 copies
It's parallel everything.
seed funding is better because their advances are recoupable.
So it's like, I was having this long conversation.
Yeah, we were talking before.
We were talking before we started recording.
I was like, man, Jimmy Sony would be great to do a sessions with just because he's got this historical knowledge of PayPal.
PayPal being so important to like Silicon Valley history.
And he, we were talking about this and he's like, no, like I have to pay that back through sales.
I'm like, oh, because the thing is, going back to like, you guys listen to GameCraft, Blake Robbins.
Like, unbelievably good.
And what I loved about it is how they focused on the business model innovations and how one decision by some random group of programmers in the 1980s affected a business model decision 10 years later or whatever.
And I was talking to Jimmy about this.
The books are fantastic.
They're the best products in the world.
There's a great quote in Poor Charlie's Almanac, which says that there's ideas worth billions in a $30 history book.
For Charlie Munger and Warren Buffett, that is literally true.
And what I don't understand is you guys have such a high value product and you haven't innovated on the business model at all.
And so I was telling...
Jimmy, I was like, do you know the deal?
Think about this as an entrepreneur.
You're an entrepreneur, and your product just happens to be a book.
But you can make money off that any kind of way you want.
You can just get creative.
I go, people think it's crazy where I'm like, I'm trying to be the Jay-Z of podcasts.
And people are like, what the hell is wrong with you?
And I did like that episode.
Have you done episodes on Jay-Z?
That episode I did on Jay-Z's autobiography is one of my most popular.
People listen to it two, three, four, five times.
Jay-Z has the founder mentality and he had it since he was a kid.
And you just see everything his whole career.
And people look at him like, oh, like.
This is another thing about intelligence manifests itself in vastly different ways.
It's not always like credentialed.
In many cases, it's not, right?
But like Jay-Z is a straight up genius if you listen to him and what he did.
And he looked at it, he's like, yeah.
He says it from the get-go.
He's like, I thought I told you characters, I'm not a rapper.
He's like, I'm a businessman and rap just happens to be my product.
And so I'm going to think about it like that.
I go, Jimmy, you should do that.
I go, why don't you just find a deal like Jay-Z did with Samsung?
He's like, what are you talking about?
Well, that's like true...
Like, they own their work.
And realize that the business model matters, which is why I brought up GameCraft.
So what Jay-Z did, this is years ago.
This is his Magna Carta Holy Grail.
Probably came out in 2013.
So he goes, he goes, you know, I could record this album and then I could sell like normal.
You know, stream it and then sell it for $10 if you want the physical copy, et cetera, et cetera.
He goes, what if I just want my money guaranteed?
So he goes to Samsung and says, Samsung, you're launching this new app, this new phone, and you have your own app on it.
I'm going to sell you, I will sell you a million copies, $5 each.
You give me $5 million guaranteed for my album.
I'm still going to own it.
So he gets the streaming lights.
He goes, and so what I'll do is you pay me $5 million.
The first million people that get access to my album are going to be Samsung, whatever phone was coming out.
You download it for free if you have this device.
And so it's advertising to the Samsung, and it's guaranteed money to him.
I go, dude, you're writing about technology founders.
I was like, there's these venture capital funds that have $80 billion of asset center management.
It's like, hey, will you pay me a million dollars to write this book?
And then you say, hey, this book is now presented by whatever firm.
This is why me and you have talked about this privately.
you guys already know this, there's been something like 15 acquisition or investment offers for founders.
I said no to every single one.
A lot of them are like this, where it's like, oh, well, you have the attention of people that are valuable.
You just said the worst thing that could happen to a venture firm is they miss the hit of that.
So they have to expand.
They have to make sure they catch that, right?
we'll pay for founders or whatever, give you X amount of money, pay you to do it.
You do exactly what you do.
The only difference is, essentially, they're trying to buy up our inventory forever.
It's like, hey, founders is presented by X company.
If you're going to raise money, email here.
And the response I had when I get these pitches is like, if I did that, that means I'm not actually learning the lessons in the books, which is like, you never give up control.
It's like, no, why would I ever do that?
This is the intelligent thing.
This is what Tegas is doing with Invest Like the Best.
And this is why, like, it's crazy to me when I talk to people and they don't understand this.
I had a conversation with a founder and he's like, it's really weird.
I'm not going to say who it was.
He's like, it's really weird that this company is running ads on that podcast every single episode forever.
And I'm like, oh, and I go, oh, see, I actually,
Moving parade, not standing army.
I go, David Ogilvie ran the same exact ad in the same magazine for 30 years and it was still effective.
And so I went, I was like, this is, I go, what do you think Coca-Cola has been doing for a hundred?
This is not new ideas.
So I talked to Michael Elnick, who's the co-founder of Tegas.
Oh, yeah, we all know each other.
And we talked about this.
And this is another example because this somewhat affects our business because when there's a decline in overall economics, ad markets usually shrink a little bit and ad rates come down.
And it's like, oh, you're doing exactly what investors do.
What do Charlie and Buffett do when there's a crash?
You read Izzy Sharpe's fantastic autobiography, The Founder of Four Seasons, right?
He goes, he's building what didn't exist at the time, the only chain of five-star hotels at the time.
And this is every founder does.
It's Andrew Carnegie, John D. Rockefeller, Henry Kelly Frick.
When they have recessions, that's when they grow.
So what he would do is his competitors would pull back on advertising.
And he says, he claims, I think in the book, he increases market share by like 25% or 28% using this over and over again.
Because human nature is, oh, crap, things are small.
This is what Ogilvy said.
Ogilvy's like, if you need advertising,
To sell your product, it's not a marketing expense.
It's a production cost.
It's actual cost of manufacturing your product.
And so what Tegas, what Michael Elnick did that was such a genius move was, first of all, he knew something was working, right?
And he scaled up through podcast ads.
He knew it was effective.
And then he's like, oh, okay, well, now you have all these people in the tech industry.
Their stock's creating.
Everybody's running a retreat.
There's probably available inventory.
And so he goes, hey, Colossus Network, I'd like to buy up every single ad inventory for 2023 on every single one of your shows.
That's how you know that likelihood that guy's going to win.
Like, I don't know the details of his business.
It's private and everything else.
It's like, that's the right decision.
That's what Ogilvy would have done.
That's what Buffett and Munger do when they put money in.
Like, that is, that's what Coca-Cola does.
It doesn't matter the economic climate.
You ever going to see less Apple billboards?
So I have a thought on this.
One, I don't know anything about venture investing.
Two, I don't know anything about investing, period.
I get to talk to super smart investors, and I'm sure the questions are like, hold on, you had to find that for me.
And I'm sure they're like, this kid's an idiot.
But when you guys were talking a little bit about your business and the venture game in general, I just think of one of my favorite things that I heard Jeff Bezos say.
For years, people were like, hey, when are you going to do physical retail?
When are you going to do physical retail?
When are you going to do physical retail?
And he said something that was crazy.
He's like, physical retailing is an ancient business.
And I love that term.
It's like an ancient business.
So I'm not going to do it until I know.
It's so hard to improve on an ancient industry.
It has to be completely differentiated.
You mentioned, I heard you on one of your podcasts where you went to the Amazon Go store just as pure curiosity.
It's not like you needed something.
And so you guys have probably read that story too, where it's like at one time they were going to do like meat and like all this other stuff that you'd have to like talk to somebody.
He's like, no, you have to redo this.
This doesn't make sense.
The key, the differentiation here is that you walk in, you walk out.
Not walk in, talk to some guy.
He's like cutting salami for you.
Like you got to get that out of there.
And so I've had this thought because I've read a bunch of biographies on investors too.
And like investing is an ancient business.
And we're just doing it in different ways now.
And so I was like, well, if you wanted to invest, right?
Let's say you wanted to invest in private companies, which people have been doing forever.
I always think of like...
Morgan get his deal flow?
And you know, like, you've read through the history.
It's like, people are like, oh, that was J.P.
Like, no, no, there's no retail bank.
Like, you're not going in there.
There's no ad, like, sign on the door.
It's like, here's J.P.
It was a relationship-based.
It's like, you got in if you knew somebody, right?
I read this biography that's incredible.
I highly recommend people read it.
It's episode 103 of Founders.
It is The Richest Woman in America, Hetty Green.
I can't remember the subtitle.
It's only because I reference this all the time.
One day it's just going to be a recording of just all the episode numbers.
So the Hedy Green, though, was so wealthy that she bailed out the city of New York.
Like that book has unbelievable stories.
I've never heard this person's name and they bailed out the city of New York?
Her family, so the richest, when she was alive, the richest city in the world per capita was like New Bedford, Massachusetts.
So her family made so much whaling.
And the way they looked at the family fortune is I am a steward of this money.
My job is to make it grow so that the next generation has more.
And then she's like the third generation of these whaling.
And then whaling decimates.
It died out, I think, the generation before her, so they had to figure out how to make money.
The technology stocks of her day, railroads.
Like, she made a ton of money in railroads, and then she'd buy land, like real estate in New York and everything else.
But anyways, my point being, and I had this conversation with Patrick one day.
I was like, think about it.
That was an ancient – investing is an ancient business.
So, like, you wouldn't do what Hedy Green did.
Like, where did she get her deal from?
They knew she was wealthy.
They knew that she was the first person to go to in financial panics.
They called financial panics what we call recessions and depressions now.
And it was, like, you know, every three years back then.
And so what she would do, she had a desk in Chemical Bank in Manhattan.
So the advantage there is geography, physical location.
You're at the center of finance in America.
You build a reputation.
So literally, there are stories in the book where there'd be a line of people in financial crashes waiting for her desk.
It's like, OK, I'll sell you my road stocks, pennies on the dollar.
Cornelius Vanderbilt did the same thing.
She invested with him and a bunch of other people.
And I was like, but what would you do today?
Like, you want an edge.
Everything we're talking about is like, you need an edge, right?
Ed Dorp has a great quote in his book.
He's like, I've been a money manager for 50 years.
One thing I know is the surest way to get rich is only play games and make investments where you have an edge.
So Edwin Land plays a huge role in my life.
Founder of Polaroid Steve Jobs Hero because he said, I have a personal model.
It may not fit anybody else.
Don't do anything somebody else can do.
And so I was like, okay, I don't think anybody else could do founders the way I do it.
So I'm just going to do this, right?
So my point being is like, how would you do it today?
Well, you would, it would look very much like
what I think you guys are building.
And I'm not an investor, so I don't know anything about your world, but it's just like, I'd spend my time reading and learning about business history.
Charlie Munger and Warren Buffett did that.
Every single investor you guys have probably read about does that all the time.
They read constantly, right?
I would share what I know.
That's gonna build my network of other people.
Those people are eventually gonna sell me deals.
Then I have this huge advantage that you couldn't even do 10 years ago, or 15 years ago, because there's no such thing as a podcast, right?
It's like, now I can record all the stuff I'm learning
Venture hacks with Naval and Rivi.
I have two other examples.
It's not even venture.
What is the most successful content marketing of all time?
No, Berkshire shareholder letters.
No, totally, of course.
Berkshire shareholder letters, because this is how you know genius is a genius.
It is the greatest act of salesmanship because you never even see the sale happening.
It's like, hey, and they spend, you know, you guys have probably done this research, how much time they spend on those letters.
It's like half a year, seven, eight months for every letter.
This is not like, oh, I just jotted down what I learned this year.
And the crazy thing is like he's... Old Uncle Warren.
How many people have... This is something Charlie talked... Oh, so this is a great thing that this came up here.
No, I asked him about like... So I was explaining to him.
I was like, Charlie, I'm literally in the middle of like reading about you when you were like around my age.
So every time I read a book, I'm like, okay.
First of all, I know what year they're born.
So every time as I go through the books, I'm like, how old are they?
And I write down, okay, he's 24 here.
I want to know what they were doing in and around my age.
And so I was like, Charlie, I'm thinking about you guys.
Like, you just started.
Like, your fund starts when you're, like, 41 or something like that.
I don't remember what it was, right?
And I was like, then, like, 50, like, you start out.
You're trying to figure things out.
You could see them kind of figuring it out, making mistakes.
You guys did an excellent job on your episode, like, talking about what they learned from.
Getting to, like, get away from the Ben Graham, like, get to excellence.
Great businesses are rare.
We should be in there.
And then just let time do all the work.
And I was like, and now, like, you guys put up the greatest –
investment record the world's ever seen it's like are you surprised he goes of course he's like of course i'm surprised like how could you not be like we want to be successful and we were like had we were ambitious and driven but there's no way you could say hey i'm gonna be worth what's what's berkshire's market cap right now i don't know like 500 billion yeah whatever it is but he said um but uh the the the reason that popped my mind um
When I was asking him these questions, let me actually get the exact note because I don't want to mess up the way he said it because his lines were just excellent.
And so he goes, he's surprised how successful him and Warren turned out.
How could you not be surprised?
And then he said something that was fascinating.
He goes, I think we get too much credit.
And I was like, whoa, that's interesting.
Like, why do you think that, Charlie?
And he's like, it's very, he goes, I find it odd to be so wealthy and loved.
That's not, these are not exact words.
These are my interpretation of his words.
Let me just be clear here.
I find it so odd to be wealthy and loved.
That's not a usual human reaction.
tied to why I think the Berkshire Letters are the greatest content marketing of all time.
He goes, and I go, I wonder if this is because they spent so much time teaching others.
So what is, when you listen to Choir, you guys are teaching, right?
Berkshire, I'm going to go to Paul Graham too.
Berkshire, they're teaching, like you could just not read a book and just read Berkshire's Letters and you're going to get a fantastic education, right?
And then in there it's like, oh, by the way, we'd like to be the buyers of choice.
So if you happen to know of this business,
Like this business that you want to get your hands on, like, you know, you care about it and he does this excellent product differentiation.
The greatest content.
What are the what is like how much money do they make off of that?
So I changed, I changed out.
I was in a polo hoodie right before I came over.
I watched the documentary on Ralph Lauren.
I just did a podcast.
I just listened to your episode.
Yeah, I think it's episode 288.
I wonder if I'm right.
Let's see if I'm right, though.
Let's see if I'm right.
I could be full of crap.
So, but before that, I had watched a documentary on him, like, years ago, and I found out that he did the, I always go to Ben for the proper pronunciation.
Like, we'll do the same podcast.
I will, I say, like, Akio Morita, and then he's like, Akio Morita.
He did the same thing that Akio did.
They were struggling in the early days of Sony.
They get this huge order.
We're going to take 100,000 units or whatever it is, but take off Sony and put on our name.
But he refused to do that because he's like, I'm not building your company.
I love that entrepreneurial, bullheaded tendency.
Same thing with Ralph.
Him and his wife are living in a house, an apartment with a train running over on top of them.
They're sleeping on a mattress, and he's making ties.
And Bloomingdale's like, well, take them.
You're going to be our house brand.
And he packs up his ties.
He's like, I'm not here to build your brand.
I'm here to build mine.
Hearing that made me buy more polo clothes.
Hearing your affinity for Geico makes you buy Geico.
The advertisers you haven't acquired because they love you.
Your audience, I know you guys vet them and like,
you have a ton of people that want to advertise that you don't let.
It's like, that goodwill that you're building up, the goodwill that Buffett built up.
Another, the second maybe most... And by the way, there's a litmus test for that.
Like, okay, I miss a week on advertising.
I'm doing this for you.
When we get on the phone, the first time we ever talked, do you guys love podcasting?
You're going to do it forever?
We're going to do it forever.
We say the same thing.
We could do this for another 40 years.
It's like the same goodwill that you're talking about.
It's why I'm drinking.
I don't even drink energy drinks, right?
This is the only energy drink I found, and I only found it because I was driving home on Thanksgiving, and all the coffee shops are closed, and I heard Jocko's podcast, and I know he has this, and he says he's in Wawa's, and I was like, wait, there's a Wawa on the turnpike.
I was like, I can just go there.
Like, they're there, and I bought them, and then I was wired for the whole drive home.
I was like, oh, they work, man.
But the point there is it's not like when I went to the energy drink aisle, I was like, oh, maybe I'll do Rockstar or Monster.
It's like, no, they didn't make a podcast that I love.
Jocko made a podcast I love.
You were not evaluating energy drinks at that point.
The format for our founders I got from Jocko.
I found his podcast because he was on Tim Ferriss'.
His podcast at the very beginning was just him reading books for an hour, hour and a half saying, oh, I like this section.
Yeah, he does it for autobiographies for military people.
I was like, oh, I should do this for biographies of founders and everything else.
So it's a combination of ideas.
The second best version, and you guys know this more than me because it's your world and I don't know anything, I had spent three weeks reading Paul Graham's essays.
Paul Graham's essays changed my life.
Also, content marketing.
So we're going to get there.
The reason to finally jump and dedicate my life to founders came, my wife was sleeping in bed next to me.
I read Paul Graham's essay, How to Do What You Love.
I talk about this on- Oh, it's such a good one.
Episode 275, 76, and 77.
I know that for sure.
Are the three Paul Graham episodes I did.
I talk about this snap, how that episode changed my life, or that essay changed my life in 275.
So I spent three weeks going through every single one of his essays.
So something his new essays lack that they had before, he used to have this bright orange box at the top.
It says, do you want to start a startup?
Apply to Y Combinator.
Apply to Y Combinator.
I was like, think about, so again, it's not like you went, I thought about this, like what is the founder's version of Y Combinator?
What is the acquired version of Y Combinator, right?
You have to be very careful like who you partner with and what you're doing.
So I was like, what is the orange box, right?
It's not like you go to Paul Graham's and he's got like 10 banner ads.
Your attention is here.
And it's like, he didn't know that starting white comedy, you can go back and read his essays about it, watch his interviews.
Just like Charlie told me.
He's like, no, I did not expect to build one of those.
It was called the Summer Founders Program.
You know, it wasn't even... That's the best thing about...
learning about the company and founder history it's like they didn't there's no way when you could interview Sam Walton when he's his shoes the bottom of his shoes has watermelon and donkey crap he's not gonna be like hey guys I'm gonna be the richest man in the world right yeah and so I love this idea of hey all of these discussions about
The business benefit all comes from, it's the byproduct of educating people, sharing people.
That's why people love Charlie and Warren White.
All three of us love them.
How much have us three learned from them?
To the point where like- This is such a good point.
They're going to change the trajectory of my kids' lives.
Like that is, and you know, he probably hears that a million times a day, but it doesn't matter.
It's like, I got a chance to tell him that.
there was some funny things about that, too, where he says, like, you know, they get, he says something like, well, you know, they're completely, he says, you both, in your episode, you talk about Snowball.
Snowball has that quote from Buffett in there.
He talks about it's really important to have an inner scorecard or an outer scorecard.
Inner scorecard is his dad.
It's like, I'm doing this because I know it's good.
Outer scorecard is like, I'm doing this.
What are other people gonna think about me?
Newsflash, no one's thinking about you.
They think about themselves.
So out-of-score card people cannot have... It's almost really hard to have a happy life having an out-of-score card.
I like Charlie's description of that better.
He says... I think it was Andrew that asked him the question.
Maybe Chris asked him the question.
It's like, were you driven to succeed to impress your dad or your mom?
It's a great question.
He goes, I had an interclock.
He goes, I have an interclock and I always had an interclock.
I did this because I wanted to do it.
And he goes... And they're like, do you think Buffett's like that?
He goes, Buffett has an interclock too.
And it's just like this idea where...
They did it their way.
Regardless, they don't care what other people think.
He said this about the fact that they keep some of their wholly owned businesses and like, oh, the profits are less.
So they kind of just let them run out and like, they'll just keep the cash.
And then people are like, oh, you should invest the cash.
And he's just like, no, because we're opportunists.
We're individual opportunity driven is the line that he has about that.
But another one's coming eventually.
Just like Charlie says, you're going to have another unintended problem a year from now.
Can I tell you from the founder's perspective?
Because I talked to a ton of founders.
I'm going to go down, I think, well, we'll see, talking to more founders than any non-VC, right?
I get offers all the time like, hey, you want to invest in my company?
I've said no to all of them.
Just because I'm like, dude, I'm focused on founders.
I don't care about anything but my podcast.
And so we have these conversations and it's just like what VCs don't understand is like how much founders hate them.
They like, yes, they hate them.
And it's not they hate the good ones.
They love the good ones.
Like, I'm not going to say some of the brands that I've heard about.
They're like, oh, no, like we raise money from a bunch of people.
They don't mess with us.
But if we ask a question or we need something, they jump on it, you know.
And the problem is, it's a natural distribution of any industry.
There's going to be crappy founders and great founders.
There's going to be crappy investors and great investors.
And so I really think it ties back to the principle that Buffett and Munger built their business on, is only associating themselves with the best people and the best companies.
And that solves so much other problems.
My issue is, there's a lot of VCs in my audience too, and they're nice people.
Some of them I've talked to, I was just like,
Who gave you money to invest?
Like what is going on here?
But what I don't like is like the best ones, like this is what I like about Patrick, right?
If you talk to the people that Patrick has invested in, he doesn't like, here's a list of 10 things I took two minutes to think about.
He's asking questions.
He does exactly what he does on his show.
And if you need something, like, I'll do whatever I can because he's got a good network and help.
No, but he's certainly not.
He's like, if I have to tell the founder what to do, then why did I invest in it?
Like, that doesn't make any sense.
So what happens is, like, I'll get these emails.
Like, I love your show, et cetera, et cetera.
Here's, like, 10 ideas for you.
And it's just like you read them.
It's like you hired, like, an assistant or a researcher.
Maybe you wrote this yourself.
You thought about this for 30 minutes.
I think about this all day, every day.
I've thought about this every day for years, man.
You're just making... I have a lower opinion of you because this is a dumb idea.
And the only way about that is... Do you know who Bryce Roberts is?
He has, this is, again, I've never raised venture capital.
I've never made a venture capital investment.
But I talked to a ton of founders, and he has the greatest description.
He's like, what is the product that founders are buying from VCs?
It's not money, because everybody's got money.
Well, you used to have money.
Yeah, I guess you used to.
There's still a lot of people that have money.
There's still going to be investments made in markets.
Compared to venture in the 70s, yes.
He said two words, improved odds.
That is the best, from a founder's perspective, that is the best description.
It's like, if I take investment from you as opposed to this other guy over here, this other girl over there, like who is going to be, founders, all they care about is, can you help my company succeed?
Is it more likely that my company succeeds?
I'm dedicating my life to this, man.
Like, can you make my company succeed?
And sometimes you can do it with money, sometimes you can network.
There's other people sitting right across from me that could probably help with distribution that is actually value-added.
Like, that is the difference.
Like, if I was going to be a venture capitalist, and God knows I would not be, right?
I would just start a podcast.
And then I would do it for six years.
And I would get really valuable.
And then my inbox is full of people.
I don't have deal flow.
This is what Patrick is doing.
Yeah, it comes inbound.
I have a friend, Chris.
He syndicates podcasts.
real estate investment you know rich people like to invest in real estate there's all these tax benefits and he's got he says David even with like this guy's done like I think he's got either a billion or two billion dollars of industrial class real estate under management right now and
He's like, even, he's like, David, I just was interviewing and doing my podcast.
Interviewing people operating in the real estate industry and interviewing founders.
And just doing it because he liked to do it.
He wanted to talk to those sort of people.
Happened to press record.
Never really promoted it.
You know, got, he's like, even with my small audience.
He goes, I've raised, he goes, it changes the dynamic from, hey, I'm Chris.
I'm sitting on Outbound.
This is like, can we talk?
Can we set up a meeting?
To, oh, Chris, love your podcast.
How can I get five million in your fund?
Because they get to know you as a person.
This is what I don't like also.
It shortcuts the relationship.
But you just said, it's a relationship, right?
Which I think there's too much of this calendar, like Tetris, that venture capitalists play.
Because they try to do it with me.
Where our founders do this too.
Where they're like, hey, love your show.
Love to get to talk to you.
And I reply back, yeah, let's set something up.
Then I'm routed to an assistant.
And then it's like...
How about six weeks from now on Thursday?
Mr. Joe Smough has 30 minutes three weeks from now.
And I've done this like once or twice.
And now my response is, that's no way to build a relationship.
Here's my phone number.
Just text or call me when you're free.
I'm not a 30-minute block in your calendar.
And dude, we have the inbound that all three get, it's like I'm already almost hitting a limit to how many deep relationships I can build.
So I'd rather instead of talking to a million people, I'm not a fester, instead of talking to a million people for 15 minutes, I'd rather talk to five or 10 people over and over and over and over again.
It's like they built relationships.
They found people they like, admired, and trust.
They repeat like, admire, and trust over and over again in the letters and their talks.
And then they just did business with them forever.
It's not this wide but shallow.
And that's where you get the bad behavior.
And anybody that's high quality can see through it and it's not going to work with you.
And you're only going to succeed.
Like you guys, your business is parallel.
You're only going to succeed if you get the very best ones.
This is one advantage that I have, the fact that I'm not an investor.
So I don't have to keep up on like, to some degree, venture capitalists have to like know what's going on, right?
And I close myself off.
Like I was having dinner with Sam and his wife and they were asking me, like his wife was asking me like, hey, do you know about this person?
Do you know about this?
And Sam's like, he's got a very limited, like, he said it nicely.
He's like, you can ask about like books, but this dude's not watching TV.
He's not doing any other stuff, right?
We keep him in a, you know, hot out back.
And the good thing about that, though, is somebody actually – so essentially the way I use Twitter or any social media is I put out little snippets from my podcast in text.
You put out a lot on Twitter.
I'm going to read something that has over a million views in 24 hours because everything's going on and because I just had dinner with Charlie.
So I'm going to read this and then I'll go back to the benefit.
So I go, Charlie Munger tells a story about human nature.
Now, I didn't put this because of the bank run.
I was just thinking, I was like, oh, I was reading my highlights.
Remember I reread my highlights every day?
And so when I reread my highlights, what my Twitter is is when I reread highlights, it's like, oh, that's a good one.
I just put it on Twitter.
Oh my God, they have like just the greatest timing in history.
Well, like it wasn't intentionally, I knew it was going on, but it never said, oh, let me, I need an SVB tweet.
Like I don't have any money in SVB, like whatever.
So it goes, Charlie Munger tells a story about human nature.
And then this is all Charlie speaking.
One of my favorite stories is about the little boy in Texas.
The teacher asked the class, if there are nine sheep in a pen and one jumps out, how many are left?
And everybody got the answer right, meaning eight, right?
Except this little boy who said, none of them are left.
And the teacher said, you don't understand arithmetic.
And the little boy said, no, teacher, you don't understand sheep.
And so... So effing good.
Let me, I'm gonna answer that question.
The best response to this tweet, I didn't even, I missed it myself.
He goes, was the child Charlie himself?
And I'm like, oh my God, that's exactly what he would have done.
He would have been the kid.
He would have been the kid.
So the reason I think it's so powerful, like the storytelling ability you guys have, how I try to break down things to aphorisms.
You asked like, why is this guy on my phone, right?
I only think in stories.
I think people only learn through stories and then one-liners, right?
That's why Charlie – David Ogilvie.
That idea, it's like he says it in a creative way and you remember fur.
Charlie Munger says, hey, if you don't learn probability, you're going to go through life as a one-legged man in an ass-kicking contest.
So you laugh, and then you think about it.
It's like, oh, I'm going to get my ass kicked.
This is here because it's Ernest Shackleton.
His family motto was, by endurance, we conquer.
So we're in the podcast business.
People are like, you can't do podcasts.
There's like 2 million of them.
It's like, dude, there's like 70% or 80% of them that have quit.
98% have three episodes or less.
me and Patrick were just talking about this.
I just saw him in person in Miami and we were talking and I showed him this.
It's like, dude, uh, for podcasts like me and Patrick's and yours, uh, yeah, business categorized in business, uh, have at least 10 episodes and I think release at least once a week.
You guys, I think are really scheduled less than that.
Two weeks, every two or three.
And the business category is the second most popular podcast, like the second most populated podcast category.
So there's a thing about that where I heard somebody said, they're like,
Founders is like church for entrepreneurs.
And I might start dropping podcasts on Sunday and... No, no, I'm not kidding.
And if I do video, I swear to God, I went and looked.
I was like, I'm not gonna get... I swear to God.
I'm not gonna get a desk like think about my mom was like fundamentalist Christian and stuff and like I had to go to church my whole life and it's just like this is pretty crazy like not in a bad way I don't mean that to a majority it's like they're learning from the same book every week over and over again and the stories you can tell are limitless it's one book I can do the same thing I have access to all the books in the world like I can do that so I do think there's an element of totally five years from now people are gonna be like this is the moment where David started the cult it's right here on video
Cults are the best businesses, though.
If you listen to my episode, In-N-Out, episode 244.
There's no way I got that right, by the way.
I'll look up if you got this right.
I did that episode because...
I read that book because the best businesses in the world are cults.
That's what the founder of Trader Joe's, you go to his autobiography, he said that.
Trader Joe's was a cult for the overeducated and underpaid.
In-N-Out calls them, they use this terminology in their business, cheerful cult.
It's a positive cult.
I'm not talking about Jonestown, let's get together and freaking drink mass suicide.
No, no, I'm talking things that, hopefully you're building a product that's good for the world.
Well, this idea also influenced me.
It's Zero to One, Peter Thiel's book.
He's like, the best businesses, startups look like cults.
But I have to be intentional about this.
I'm glad you said, oh, this is where we get in on camera and on recording that David started his cult.
It's like, podcast, no, I go crazy.
Like, people start talking about me.
A bunch of them say, David's too obsessed with podcasts.
And I'm like, I'm glad they say that because like even now.
You're like, thank you.
No, it's like I see an opportunity that other people don't, which is the same thing in the book.
So I think podcasts in general are just fun to make and I'm obsessed with it.
But they're also going to be wonderful businesses because they're prone to be cheerful cults.
And how do you know that you have a cult?
You just Google and see if the people have tattooed themselves with the brand.
How many people are walking in with a Joe Rogan face tattoo on their skin?
How many people have tattoos of the Apple logo?
There's a ton of... Dude, I like... Cheeseburgers are my favorite meal.
I'm not tattooing an In and Out logo on my arm, dude.
You take another level.
And you see this over and over and over again.
And so when I analyze businesses, I'm not just doing this.
It's not a game to me.
It's like, oh, can I use these ideas in building my business?
And Warren Buffett says the greatest thing, and this, I think, speaks to why you guys are so like, hey, we know how big our audience is and we're going to take this seriously.
That's the best description of a brand.
I talked about the fact that I stayed in this hotel brand.
I'm not going to say what it is.
In Austin, I loved it.
I stayed in Santa Monica.
I found out they had one in San Francisco.
I didn't check the reviews.
You came here and they broke their promise.
I told you to stay with us.
And that's the biggest thing.
A brand was a promise.
I know this is going to be excellent.
It's in a tenderloin.
If I wasn't traveling alone, there's no way I'd let my wife in.
a specific part of it is yeah but like there are other and unfortunately that part is mostly where the hotels are yeah which is not good for the city because i'm like i'm not ever saying i'm staying with you or i'd stay in uh like i'd stay out in silicon valley like i've stayed at the rosewood which is really nice yeah but that is the most expensive hotel which is good i didn't pay for it so no one ever does i didn't that's the whole business model okay
I didn't know how much it was.
It was really nice, though.
I got to thank that person.
Yeah, so, like, again, I don't mean it in, like, but I am very intentional.
Like, hey, I'm not going to break my promise.
I want you to know, and you guys do the same thing.
It's like, if I press play on an Acquired episode, this is why I like Dan Carlin, is...
You know, I read one book an episode.
He only does two a year or one a year.
But like I know there's no way I'm going to press play.
It's going to be good.
And he didn't do the work necessary.
No, but, like, I would... First of all... Or the model.
Not necessarily just the content, but, like...
No, what you guys said on your Benchmark Dinner episode, I think was, like, you know, there's a few podcasters.
I was having this conversation with Sam yesterday.
It's like, there's a few podcasters that, like, they know what they're doing.
And they know by, like, what their position in the market is, like, how they're thinking about it.
And I'm not going to say who.
But, like, you guys hit it.
Like, what makes you special?
It's the Edwin Land thing.
Don't do anything somebody else can do.
Where you said, it's like, your marquee thing is these super, like, Blake made the funny, um,
Blake Robbins said the funny thing on Twitter I saw.
He's like, only a choir could say, all right, let's bring this home.
And so an hour and a half left.
And I think what you're doing here with like the sessions is like a way to also, it's like, there's no, you can't increase your, the amount of episodes that you can do because they take so much work to do.
But you also have a way to surface all this information that you guys have that's valuable to other people in different formats.
I mean your sessions should be replace your interviews anything that's a non-acquired like long deep dive just make them a session there's enough people interviewing founders and investors but we need more conversations so if I ever did people are like if you ever do an interview show I was like first of all I wouldn't do an interview show because like
Interview is a skill.
I always tell Patrick, Patrick, you're world class at this, dude.
You have... You've been on a show.
And he's just... I like to read.
He likes to ask questions.
So therefore, our formats match the personality, right?
And so what I tell him is like, I've been on the other side of it.
It's like, you can tell.
He doesn't have a list of questions in front of him because you can tell his good question just came off a response of what... A lot of people like...
and it's fine, but like the Tyler Cowen thing where he just like, he has his questions and you just said something interesting, he's not going to follow up and he's going to go on the next question.
But Tyler, you have to do, let's tie this to Jay-Z and J. Cole and the answer question also about like, I'm glad you guys are so much nicer where you're like, do you have any feedback?
I can't stand feedback.
We're, like, not in the sense of, like, I told you, I texted you guys this one time.
We're, like, one guy was, like, hey, I don't like that you reference, like, the superpower of the show is that it's not, like, the episode on Ralph Lauren is going to tell you how Ralph thinks, like, Andrew Carnegie and Rockefeller and Bezos.
To me, it's just one large conversation on history's greatest entrepreneurs.
That's how it is to me.
It just happens to be separated.
And so I text you and this guy's like, could you save that at the end and just do it like a carve out like acquired?
And I was like, don't listen to acquired.
No, I'm not going to.
It's even further than that.
It's like I'm not putting on a show.
I loved Anthony Bourdain when he was alive.
He had a huge influence on me.
Anytime I traveled to a place that he went to, I'd go and watch it.
Have you done an episode on him?
There's no way that's right.
There's no way that's right.
It's called The Oral Biography.
That format should be done more where his assistant...
had interviewed, an assistant friend had interviewed a bunch of people who actually knew Tony and were there in his last days.
And then she organized that interview into this biography called Bourdain, the Definitive Oral Biography, I think.
And so, like, where was I going with that?
I went on a digression.
But, oh, so there's a line in the book that I love.
It says the line between Tony and the show is nonexistent.
That's why people, like, I hear a lot of people talk about podcasting.
It's like, oh, you don't actually know what the superpower of podcasting is.
Where it's like, to me, one of the superpowers of podcasting is it's authenticity scaled.
When I meet with founders, I listen to founders.
And we have a three-hour dinner.
They all say the same thing.
They're like, this is like a three-hour episode of Fowlers.
It's like the same person there.
The way you think about this is there's a spectrum.
This is Blake's spectrum.
He goes, on one end of the spectrum, it's like, how much time do people spend with you, right?
He's like, on one end of the spectrum, you have these, like, 30-second TikTokers that dance, right?
And then all the way on the other end of the spectrum, as you move down, they spend more time with you.
All the way down to the end of the spectrum, you have the Twitch streamers, right, which he helped incubate 100 Thieves, 40 Thieves, 100 Thieves, where they're spending, like, 40 hours or 50 hours a week with you, right?
He goes, David, you're like...
They don't spend 40 hours with you, but you're one click to the left.
And they're going to wind up spending 10, 20, 100, 200 hours with you.
And you keep moving down.
Let's say you do 10-minute YouTube videos.
It's like the deeper you go down there, it's why I think the guy's name is Nadeshot.
When 100 Thieves has a new product and he announces it, you'll see a line down the block.
Hundreds of thousands of people have spent all their time with them.
And so it's like, oh, Nadeshot has something to all come down here.
And you see this over and over again.
And then Blake says you could have like a TikTok that has 10 million followers, yet they can't even get 3,000 people to show up somewhere.
And so I think that is the way to think about it.
So my point in all that is if they're spending a lot of time with you and I love – this is my flip of what Charlie Munger says that you need to learn the big ideas in the main domains like physics, psychology because they carry the most freight.
I flip that to time carries the most weight.
As long as what we're doing – you said we're not playing characters.
We are passionately interested in this.
We're not going to quit.
then we do this over a long period of time.
You'll get what you deserve.
You'll get the audience you deserve.
You'll get the business opportunities and everything else.
It's like time carries the most weight.
I know I'm not going to quit.
You're going to have to pry the microphone from my cold dead hand.
And I'm just going to let the chips fall where they are.
And that doesn't mean I'm like lollygagging here.
Like I'm on it seven days a week.
I'm going to try to work myself into position.
So it's something I learned from Steve Jobs when he came back to Apple, right?
People hear that speech he gives, which is fantastic.
He's like wearing shorts.
And he's like, I don't even know if he's in the turtleneck yet.
But he mentions what they're going to do.
And everybody focused on the fact that he's like, there's no sex in the products anymore.
And we're going to do the four quadrant thing.
A lot of people in the technology industry particularly know that speech and like, yeah, let's cut the fat and like put all of our A players, fire the B and C players, put all of our A players in these four products that we're going to make, right?
But they missed... Desktop, laptop, high-end.
Yeah, consumer and pro for both laptop and desktop.
Those are four categories, right?
what he said earlier, when he talks about Nike.
He's just like, marketing.
He's like, Apple sucks at marketing.
We have to be a great marketing company.
And so he said something where I read the quote and then my reinterpretation of this, right?
And people don't know that.
It's in Ken's, no, it's in this book called Insanely Simple.
I think that guy's name is Ken Siegel.
And he's like, he was an ad guy at a company for Apple.
And he's like- TWBA Chiat Day.
It was the ad agency.
So he goes, and every Wednesday-
actions express priority.
So there's another maximum, right?
It's like, I don't care what people say, I care like what they do.
So when people ask me, like first people that you talk to the founders, like, Hey, like, what would you do about this?
I never answered like, well, David Senra would do this.
I'd say, Hey, well, Charlie Munger would tell you this, or Steve Jobs would do this.
Or like, Hey, I heard a story about here.
Cause like my opinion is useless.
It's you know, my opinion on business building and how I build my business.
It doesn't matter what I say.
It's like, how is he approaching founders?
Like, why is he making decisions?
That's the important part, right?
And so Steve told you that marketing was important to his actions because every Wednesday at like 3 o'clock, or I forgot the time, they had like a three-hour meeting.
He would approve, have to approve every single piece of advertising and marketing that went out for Apple.
There's not a billboard in Kentucky that went out without him saying, yes, it's going to go out, right?
And so in that speech, if you actually listen to what he's saying, he's like, listen, I feel that the products we're making in Apple make people's lives better.
And he says this line.
He goes, I want everybody in the world to own an Apple device.
We know that's not going to happen because it's so expensive.
But he goes, and to do that, we have to get really good at marketing.
So my interpretation of that on the podcast, what I said is like, if you feel your product can improve people's lives, I think you guys already know because you get thousands of...
messages just like i do that yes listening to acquire listening to founders will improve people's lives and work right then you have a moral obligation to get good at marketing well about that all that means is not get good at marketing so our ad rates are going to go up or that we can be celebrities during that it's no so these this these messages for all these of history's greatest entrepreneurs that are dead that they don't those ideas don't die with them and then therefore acquired and founders can gather these ideas and push them down the generations
So that's why I mean, it's just like, I'm not dilly-dallying.
Yes, I'm gonna let time carry all the weight, but I'm gonna do everything I can so more people at least know.
And if you try, founder, you say, oh, this sucks or whatever, whatever, I'm cool with that, but I just want you to have the opportunity to know it exists.
And me and you have had these, us three have had these conversations where it's like, guys, I'm telling you right now, I've said this to you, there's millions of people that would benefit from listening to Choir, they just don't know it exists yet.
So we gotta come up and find ways to make sure that people know it exists because they will love it and it will make their lives better.
I think that goes back to the game tape analysis where we talked about Kobe Bryant.
Jordan did this too where it's like – I read this like 600-page biography of Kobe.
And in the biography, they interview his high school girlfriend.
And they're like, what was it like to date Kobe Bryant in high school?
I'm surprised he had a girlfriend in high school, right?
Well, not for very long.
It's like, what was it like to date Kobe Bryant in high school?
She's like, well, our dates consisted of me going to his house and watching tapes of Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson.
we're not leaving I'm not taking you out to dinner like we're literally gonna watch this thing and so I think the game tape analysis of that is just like it is helpful to realize that a lot of this stuff it's impossible to plan in advance it's the one of the great I mean Steve Jobs has a ton of great quotes oh one of the best ones Stanford speech he's like the commencement it's impossible
You're only going to connect the dots looking backwards.
So you have to put something, faith in something.
You can call it karma, religion, God, intuition, but you have to do something.
I just did a rewrite of Ray Kroc's autobiography, the guy from McDonald's.
Again, and it hit me.
Yeah, I've been thinking about the Steve Jobs quote too.
And this is why it's so important.
valuable to read you mentioned this in the in the mcdonald's if you think about this like he's a perfect illustration of what steve observed 50 years after reg dies for god's sake he's just like he goes to selling paper cups paper cups leads him to selling multi mixers which are like uh make milkshakes right multi mixers goes like why the hell are you have eight why does these mcdonald brothers out in san bernardino have eight of my machines like you
He'd had a hard time selling one.
That goes to the franchise system, which he didn't even do well.
Then he meets Harry Sombor, and then Harry Sombor is like, dummy, you don't even know the business you're in.
He's like, you don't build an empire off a 1.4% cut of a 15-cent hamburger.
You build an empire by owning the land upon which that hamburger is cooked.
He sold paper cups for 17 years.
But he's just like, hey, I have to go in my gut to the point where he got divorced over this.
His wife was like, you can't do this, Harry.
And he's like, you have to trust my instincts.
And he didn't try to hide it.
Most people in autobiographies are trying to hide it.
He's literally like, thank you very much, June Martino, my first employee, for missing every single one of your kids' birthdays.
You're going to get some stock at McDonald's.
It's going to get you rich.
But 20 years later, I'm going to fire you.
And you don't have to put that story in there.
He chose to put that.
I said on the podcast, I was like, listen, it's interesting.
I'm glad he persisted.
Interesting ideas for business.
But not only do I never want to do business with this guy, I wouldn't even want to be his friend.
I wouldn't want to do business with Steve Jobs, but I want to be his friend.
He'd be a very interesting person to be friends with.
I feel like the opposite.
I think the difference is from like a founder's perspective, like there is no working with Steve Jobs.
You hear the stories of how he even treated like his subcontractor or not like the owners of the companies that contracted.
It's like these guys are empire builders.
Like they're literally building worlds.
They're not used to being like they're –
Charlie was talking about this, because he loves Li Lu, the new guy, the BYD guy, Du Wan, I don't know his name, something like that.
He loves Lee Kuan Yew from Singapore.
And what you realize is it's like,
It's like, these are founder types, but you can't be... Like, founders are benevolent dictators, or in some cases, they're dictators of their own company.
And, like, some people call Lee Kuan Yew, you know, a dictator.
It's like, oh, you can't do that in America, even if that would be beneficial.
There's no working with them.
They're going to be in complete control of the situation.
Even being in the room with them.
I'm not saying they'd be rude or mean, but you're a subordinate to them.
Ray Kroc, he says in the book, perfection is difficult.
I'm demanding perfection at McDonald's.
I will constantly keep expanding this empire until I die.
If you get in my way, I will run you over.
He says in the movie, he's like, if my competitor was drowning, I'd walk over and put a hose in his mouth.
And he goes, and he was on the other end of the call as McDonald Brothers because they're fighting over this.
He goes, would you do the same?
And the stated thing is, it's like, you're going to have to compete on my level or else I will literally destroy you.
Every single person has some kind of like their public persona for that level, right?
It's not like a podcast where they're going to listen to Joe Rogan for 1,600 episodes.
Like you know who Joe is.
He's doing three-hour shows three days a week for 15 years.
You have probably a good idea who he is.
You see flashes of like, you know, imperfection like we all have.
I don't think you... You don't get to that level without having... He's got sharp... They all got sharp elbows.
Like, you ever heard... Read stories about how Warren negotiates?
And this is from the Jim Clayton's autobiography where he buys Clayton Holmes.
And he even said, like, he wanted to sell Buffett.
And he talks about, like, he wasn't insulting him by any means, but he's like, Warren wants the microphone.
And if you're in an area where Warren doesn't have the microphone, he is not interested.
And I've heard that about Warren a lot.
They're world builders.
You think you're going to go from being poor to having $200 billion and not distort your perception of the world?
Say more about Warren wanting the microphone.
Like, literally in person.
Like, they would do—I think they were doing—Jim Clayton was at either, like, an event to talk to the employees or whatever the case was.
Like, he—like, Jim wanted to have input.
And he's like, Warren would not allow it.
Like, he monopolized this—and I've heard that about Warren.
You know how he loves it.
He loves having a million people come.
Yeah, you know how he loves it because he's still doing it.
Like, he doesn't have to do anything in the world that he doesn't want to do.
And that's how you know he loves it.
Like, they're beyond—I told you, we talked about earlier how, like, just how disorienting it must be to, like, have—and I would love to know this feeling, don't get me wrong—like, have a $200 billion net worth.
It's like, you're living life on, like, God mode.
Like, I was watching this video.
I don't know if it's true, but it's like, Jeff Bezos' private jet has its own private jet.
One of the most interesting ideas I've heard, and it comes from our mutual friend Jeremy, who I think we mentioned earlier in the podcast, hopefully we did give him credit.
I actually was talking to him and David Perreault,
And I'm pretty sure Jeremy said this, not David, but he's like, I would actually make the argument, because everybody's like, oh, what does Charlie talk about, call the Berkshire jet the indefensible?
The indefensible, yeah, right, right.
bought net jets and now it's like we should be on net so you look you look at um you look at like those like how could you possibly spend like you know these yachts cost twenty five thousand dollars an hour to operate in fuel or some crazy number that planes are the same like you know how expensive they are and jeremy makes the point jeremy knows because he's been buying businesses forever and he's exposed to like great wealth uh people you know unbelievable amount of wealth he goes he makes the argument that they're actually underpriced assets
And I was like, ooh, tell me more.
That's not what I would expect to hear.
I'm going to tell you this book that just proved his point.
I actually got to text him to tell him this.
So he's like, they use it not for, you know, like yachting, sitting there sunbathing, right?
He's like, they're using it for, like, customers and potential.
And so I had heard this.
I'll tell you about how this relates to Invisible Billionaire.
So I had heard this because, again, I've never raised money.
I don't pay attention to the venture industry.
I don't know anything about it.
I just have a bunch of founder friends and founders tell founders everything.
And so I'll have these discussions where they're like they describe the courting process that they get from some of these well-known, super famous people.
The process you just described to me sounds like an old rich dude that wants to sleep with a young woman.
What would you do, right?
History doesn't repeat, human nature does.
These founder dudes are running technology companies now, and they're like, yeah, oh yeah, I'm not going to name who.
They're like, oh yeah, he gave us, he picked us up in Manhattan in his private helicopter and
And we landed at his Hamptons estate.
Do you think he got the deal?
This guy said, hey, come.
What are you doing Saturday morning?
OK, come on my private jet.
I'm going to take you to California with me.
Here, you want to stay with your girlfriend at this mansion that I'm not using in XYZ.
So Jeremy was explaining to this man.
But they're operating at a different level where it's like, oh, these influence.
And some founders, the smart ones, don't let, like, Sam Walton, you know, he's like, don't give us, don't give me a freaking gift.
Because they know it works.
If you give a Walmart salesperson a bottle of gin or something, it's going to influence them where he's just like, I want your price.
You guys did a great job in your episodes.
Tell me your lowest price, and then I'm going to go to your, it better be your low price because I'm going to this guy, and if you tell me a dollar, he sells me 98 cents.
You're not going to hear from me again.
Yeah, because everything, his entire thing, the low-cost structure thing,
That's a Walton thing.
That's a Sol Price thing.
That's a Jeff Bezos thing.
That's a Rockefeller thing.
That's the most common theme in the history of entrepreneurship.
Jeff is like, we're going to have the lowest cost structure.
We're going to have a low cost structure.
We're going to be efficient.
We're going to be efficient.
Somewhere along the line, 25 years later, now the technology startups is like, we can just spread money all the time because there's no interest rate.
There's just money coming back.
But like the whole thing, like when Peter Thiel says this in his book, Paul Graham says it, it's just like startups don't have the advantage, right, of you're not going to outspend Microsoft or Netflix.
So you've got to find underdeveloped talent, right?
You've got to find these people that if they were decredentialed or if they were the well-knowns, then they're going to go take, you're going to work for me $80,000 in some stock options or go make a million dollars a year at Netflix.
So that's the whole thing.
It's like you're not going to win unless you are capable of finding underdeveloped talent.
Silicon Valley used to be able to build high growth and profitable startups.
Well, to your point, if you have free money, you know, the money supply grass like it spans, it's raining down, that's going to build.
Did you listen to Doug Leone on... I know you guys had him on your show, but did you hear him on Invest Like the Best?
Like, he said he's like this... He was telling crazy stories.
I loved everything about that guy.
I loved him when I heard him on your podcast, too.
It was like that tough love.
This is what I'm into, right?
And then he has a great line.
He's like, I want you to know we were killers.
We weren't killers to make the most money.
We were killers to get the job done.
But he made the point, and very few people probably know more about the venture industry than that guy, right?
I would imagine he's up there.
And he's like, of course.
You have money raining down.
He didn't use that word.
He's like, it just creates bad habits.
I'm going to pull up something.
Like, this is what I mean.
It goes back to Buffett.
Like, if you just, we should have, I wish I knew this.
I didn't remember it though.
This is Warren Buffett on interest rates, right?
He says- Oh, is this from- Laws of Gravity.
No, this is from his shareholder letters.
He said it in 84, 88.
Oh, no, this is like a decade and a half before.
This is why it's like so, it's like, God, like you could have made such better decisions, I could have made such better decisions if you had just known this and he had known it for 40 years before it happened.
on Twitter, and I open up the next day, I'm like, why does this have two and a half million views?
It's like Elon replied, he goes, yep.
I was like, oh, okay.
I was like, what the, like, what the, like, damn, these people really like interest rates.
That's all Graham replies on steroids.
So I go, Warren Buffett on interest rates, and the headline is, they power everything in the economic universe.
So that was what Elon was responding up to.
And this is Warren writing in the 80s.
Exactly what you're saying.
The value of every business, the value of a farm, an apartment house, or any other economic asset is 100% sensitive to interest rates.
That's because all you're doing when you're investing is transferring money to someone now in exchange for a stream of money which you expect to come back in the future.
And the higher the interest rates are, the less that present value will be.
Interest rates are to asset prices sort of like gravity is to an apple.
When interest rates are low, there is little gravitational pull on asset prices.
We just lived through this, right?
When interest rates are low, there is little gravitational pull on asset prices.
Interest rates power everything in the economic universe.
Because I found that because...
All this, remember the inflation went crazy like a year or two ago, whatever.
And I was like, okay, every time that happens, all I do is I have, you can buy the Kindle version of Buffett's shareholder letters for like two bucks.
And I search it for like interest rates, inflation.
And I just go and I read, okay, this is- You made a billion dollars off that $2 purchase.
And so like, you'll say, okay, this is what he said in inflation.
And then you see what year he said it.
And it's just like, and that's where I found that.
I go, what do you say about interest rates?
And he just laid out.
But also, like, he just educated you in a way that makes more sense and is interesting and you're entertained by and you might build a business off that and then you might sell one day or whatever the case is.
This is where I'm spending a lot more time of, like, really trying to work on storytelling ability and concision, right?
The value is in the compression and the distillation, right?
If you could listen to, like...
an audio book for 25 hours, but if I can give you the best idea or one idea that changed your life and I can do it every week or whatever, like in a couple minutes, some of that value is gonna be brought back to me.
And all that comes from is,
What I realize is all my heroes have like... What they have in common is like the unbelievable clarity of thought.
Like Steve Jobs, Charlie... Like you're not going to be like, oh, what does that mean?
They take unbelievably complex things.
Like you're not advertising to a standing army.
You're advertising to a moving parade.
Make it in a memorable way.
And then you carry that maxim with you forever.
How do you get better at that?
You said you're working on it.
Just straight up reps.
Like thinking about it.
And then hearing yourself back.
So the advantage I have of that edit is...
You can say something and like, oh, that was so good.
And then you hear it back.
And sometimes it's even better or many times it's worse.
It's like, oh, I lost it.
I know what I'm saying.
But you missed this part that doesn't make any sense.
And so normally I have to cut it.
I don't think I've ever re-recorded something.
Your editing is so good.
We've talked about back catalog sponsorship, and you told me what you're doing with Zoom Info.
And I've been listening to your back catalog, and it's like, dude, it sounds like it was there the day you did it.
And I know, because we talk about this, that that ad was not there.
But it sounds like it's there.
It's a crazy story, but even there is a lesson where you guys, I texted you, totally changed the way I think about things.
Or maybe we were talking on Zoom about this, where it's like, I never even thought of that.
The NFL is the largest media company.
Which is why I tie things in to past, because it's like, oh, this- Episode 244.
No, but the idea behind this is like, we've seen this before.
I reread the show notes on the Johnny Ive episode I did.
Johnny said something that was great.
And he said, he goes, one of Steve's talents was identifying markets full of second-rate products.
And so he would be like, oh, there's the opportunity here.
And we're all podcast addicts, right?
And the reason that we get along is because- And it's a market full of second-rate products.
And because you know how hard it is to do.
And when you go and listen to other business podcasts, and I had a friend, his friend has a podcast called
And he's like, hey, these three guys, they have large social media followings, but it does not translate to episodes, which people don't understand.
And they're like, would you listen to their episode and give it feedback?
So I was like, yeah, listen to it.
And I go, it's three guys sitting around talking whatever happens to pop to their mind.
What did you expect to happen?
I was thinking the same thing.
To all listeners, we apologize.
There's zero chance that people aren't... Do people interested in entrepreneurship and investing are not finding this interesting?
Because the prep for this is not...
three guys that have a million other things to do.
It's three guys that do this all the time over and over again that's going to cop up naturally in a conversation that you can, like, oh, I didn't know about this.
Maybe there's a bunch of people probably like, I didn't know who Evan Land was.
I didn't know Ogilvy.
I never thought about the NFL as a large media company.
But their problem thing is like, there's no value proposition.
I think this goes back to what you were just saying, and I want to go into the crafting.
Charlie, again, has these simple ideas.
Most of the problems are that you're just not intensely interested in what you're working on.
And he's like, I don't care how smart you are.
And Charlie's smarter than almost everybody else.
He goes, I was not successful until I moved myself into a position where I worked on something I was intentionally interested in.
These small rules carry most of the weight.
It's like, how bad do you actually want it?
And if you're not willing to do those things, then there's nothing wrong with that.
Like, entrepreneurship is for a very small percentage.
I'm not one of these people who think everybody can be an entrepreneur.
I would like to see more of them.
But there's no safety net.
It's like no one's telling you what to do.
No one had to tell you guys, hey, you should buy microphones and do a bunch of research and pick a name.
Charlie told me a fantastic story about this where he was singing the praises of BYD, that they're kicking ass.
He told me, not just me, I'm with a group of people.
They make batteries for cars.
Yeah, but he started out doing knockoff cell phones in Korea or something.
I forgot the guy's founder's name, and I apologize, but he was telling me the life story.
But he was saying that the founder...
That Charlie and Li Lu, Lu Li.
Li Lu gave the founder advice and he ignored it and he was right.
He's like, don't go in electric cars or whatever it was that he did.
He's like, and he, you know, selling, I think he said like 2 billion cars.
Like, I forgot what, 2 million cars.
There's no way he sold 2 billion cars in a year.
So like, he's like sold 2 million cars.
China is a big market.
So he's just like, and he did it.
And he gets all the credit because Lee and me told him not to do it.
And he's just like, same to your point.
It's just like when Kobe is watching this particular play of Michael Jordan, that may never appear in his life.
And maybe the move he did wasn't the right move for what Kobe did, but maybe it influences his other thing.
It's just like the life is complex and messy.
And you can think you're really smart.
And until you have a two and a half year old and they ask you, why is that the way?
And you answer the question.
And then their follow-up question is going to be why.
And eventually you're going to get to 11 where like, I don't know.
Like, I don't know why.
Everything ends at I don't know.
It's like, I don't know.
And so like, of course there's no certainty.
Like that's why if you have to, if you crave certainty, you've got to get a job.
But there wasn't even Facebook when I was in college because I had to work full time.
I went at night, but my college did not have Facebook.
It was just coming out.
And my MySpace, you could put a quote, right, at the header.
And I've always thought like this for my entire life.
It was like there's no security in life, only opportunity.
And I think that's what we did.
So investors and entrepreneurs are going for opportunity at the expense of security.
And if you need security, you can get a job.
Everybody said, go into tech, go into tech, go into tech.
They're like, worst case scenario, if this doesn't work, we'll just go get Jobs.
We're broke anyways.
And he like sells his van for like 50, Steve sells his van for like $1,500.
Like, oh, I'm just all in on Apple.
Like, that's, to me, that's like, again, I think a lot of this is like, people are asking like, it's entrepreneurship, like innate, can it be taught?
Can there be a school of entrepreneurship?
And I was like, well, ask Charlie Munger if he taught
He's like, I would just teach the history of, what do you guys do?
He's like, I teach the history of 100 companies and I would talk about what went right and what went wrong.
There's no security.
There's no, he's not saying, yeah, take my class and on the other end you get this degree that guarantees business success.
Well, that's what's cool.
They have been teaching entrepreneurship for the last 50 years.
So I went to UCF, which is this diploma mill, essentially.
And I was in the pilot entrepreneurship program, right?
The very first year.
And it's a two-year program.
So, like, I have never been on a job interview.
I've only had two jobs in my life.
But I was, like, there was no entrepreneurship community.
There was no entrepreneurship industry, right?
So, like, my first business was – this is a long story, but, like –
I had been accustomed... I was talking about this yesterday.
By the time I was 17, I had been accustomed to working full-time and going to school, right?
So, like, people are like, oh, you work a lot on Founders.
It's like, I don't have to go to school.
I can, like, do this all the time.
You work at halftime, as far as you're concerned.
Yeah, so it's just like...
There's a long story here, like, that would take, like, 30 minutes, but, like, my dad sat me down when I was, like, 15.
He's like, listen, you don't have to pay rent, but, like, I don't have any money for you.
So, like, if you want something, you got to go get it, right?
And the good thing about my dad, he's a Cuban immigrant, not educated, but, like, the best piece of advice that he ever gave me and my brother was a maximum.
He's like, don't half-ass things.
So he does it in, like, a blue collar.
He's a truck driver.
Like, you know, that kind of thing.
Where he's, like, he prides himself on the fact that, like, he'll work 72 hours straight.
But he never made a lot of money and never had an education.
Like, his mom wasn't good.
And they had to escape Castro's Cuba.
My dad was born in Cuba.
So it's, like, imagine, like...
I talked about this on, because you know Patrick's, at the end of every episode, he says, what's the nicest thing somebody ever did to you, or for you, did to you, for you.
And I was like, man, it was a decision that happened way before I was born.
And my grandfather is in Cuba in 1959, 1958.
And he, again, not an educated man.
He worked as a butcher and worked in a factory that made shoes.
He's married and he's got a baby.
That baby is my dad.
And Castro comes to power.
And he doesn't have a lot of money, doesn't speak English.
And yet he had some kind of insight that...
I need to get out of here, right?
And he goes to a country, picks up, loses everything, not that you had a lot anyways, goes to a country, knows nobody, doesn't speak the language.
When I sat down, the first thing me and Sam Zell talked about, and I think helped bond us to the point where at the end he said he liked my energy and everything, so hopefully he liked me, I don't know, was in his story, I was like, because I had obviously read his autobiography, and one of the first things me and Sam talked about was
Sam, I understand and empathize with your story because Sam's story is his dad being Jewish, getting the last train out of Poland before the Nazis bomb it.
Literally the last train out.
18 members of his family, his dad went around to saying, we got to get out of here.
They're like, no, we're going to stay.
Sam's dad and his mom have a daughter.
They get to America.
Sam is born in America.
And so in that book, Sam's dad's always telling him, you don't understand how lucky you are to be born here.
And I was like, I understand that mentality because I grew up meeting.
Cubans have this thing called Noche Buena, which is they don't celebrate.
My wife's Colombian, so I married into a Colombian family.
They don't celebrate Christmas on Christmas Day.
They do it the night before.
It's like Christmas Eve.
You know, for as long as I can remember, I was like 8, 7, 10, 10 years old, meeting people that came over on rafts.
And you would see these things.
I've seen these in person, right?
It's just like... The rafts.
Think about how bad it has to be.
It's like 50 miles, right?
I'm going to go over to the study the University of Miami just did on this.
Hopefully you might be a parent one day.
You love your kids way more than you love yourself.
There's people that came, hundreds of thousands of people went to the edge of the island and put their kids on a raft.
just hopes that they get to America.
And so the problem is you don't make the announcement to everybody.
It's like, hey, tomorrow we're leaving on a raft.
Could you get caught?
Imprisoned or killed or whatever the case is.
And so the University of Miami did this study.
It was like, well, how many people did this?
We know hundreds of thousands survived.
And they estimate that at least I think something like half a million people perished, never got there.
There's a conversation with, there's this UFC fighter named Jorge Masvidal who lives in Miami.
was one of the ones that escaped.
He went on a... Their raft was made out of, like, a truck tire.
Like, you know, think of the size of, like, a bulldozer tire, right?
It's his uncle and two 14-year-old boys.
They get off path, right?
Their water wound up being, like, contaminated, so you can't drink.
How do they propel it anyway?
Like, how do you make sure it gets to Florida?
You have, like... Some have oars and some have, like...
See that blanket over there?
You try to make a sail out of a blanket.
Some of these are unbelievably ingenuity.
For uneducated, they don't have the internet.
In his case, I know they had oars.
I think they had a sail.
They get close enough to the Bahamas.
They haven't drank water for three or four days or something.
a pigeon lands on the oar.
They wind up killing the pigeon, opening it apart and drinking the blood.
That's the only thing that's saved.
And so now his, so he gets to America, eventually gets to go from the Bahamas to America.
Now his son is like, you know, makes millions and millions of dollars, like as a professional fighter and a celebrity and all this other stuff.
So anyways, long story short, the one thing like I, my dad's still alive.
I told you my mom passed away.
But, like, I really think, like, my dad for just, like, he did not baby me at all.
He's just like, you got to, like, figure out how to get a job.
And so I worked at, back then, this is something that Paul Graham made the point of, right?
He's like, dude, when I was a kid, the only jobs available were, you know, scoop ice cream or something.
And, like, you've probably met them.
I met some 17-year-old founders, a bunch of founders, right?
You talk to them, they're on their second company.
They're like, oh, yeah, when I was like ninth grade, I did this Gmail plug-in.
I had this SaaS tool.
Yeah, I made $40,000 a month.
I was making so much money, my parents let me drop out of high school so I can do this business.
I'm like, I worked at a car wash, dude.
I made $4.65 an hour.
So anyways, long story short, I would go to school year-round, right?
Because I had figured this out where it's like, oh, most people went to summer school, they were forced to.
I went to public school my whole life, right?
And so people would go to public school, they would be forced to because you failed something else.
But if you elected to do that, in six weeks, you get a full semester's credit.
And there's two six-week terms.
Yeah, like mini-mesters.
So I always, even when I was in college, I did this.
I would go to school year-round, right?
And so in high school, I went to school so much,
that by the time i got to my last two years of high school i was in this program called ojt which is on the job training so instead of having six periods you would leave after the fourth period and you'd have to have a job and you would get two your other credits um through your employer so your employer would have to like fill out paperwork like is david you know cleaning cars and like oh there's a baby that came in and threw up he did a good job with that it was disgusting so
But the benefit of that was being able to work full time, make enough money where I could like buy, I bought like a new car with my own money, like all that other stuff.
And so like then I realized like, oh, like I think I was making like $400 or $500 a week in high school, which is freaking really good.
This is like late 90s, early 2000s.
And then I got promoted to being a detailer.
That's like you have client list.
And then you start developing relationships.
It's like every other business.
And they're like, hey, I love what you do.
Would you do this at my house or would you do it on my boat that you don't do or like whatever?
And so my first business was just detailing cars and boats and taking all this other stuff where it's like, okay, I spent an hour waxing this guy's car.
I might make 20 bucks.
I do it at his house.
And so, like, I've always just had that, like, and again, there's not, like, this is a story you guys read in the books and the stories.
It's like, there's no master plan here.
It's like, hey, I need to make money.
All of my other friends were working at McDonald's, Chick-fil-A, where you just said something like they cap.
I never had a capped upside.
And then so I did all these other businesses.
I started in college because I thought I was going to be a lawyer.
And this is so silly because all my friends that are lawyers hate it.
I dodged a bullet there.
Not with my parents.
So my parents never said the word college to me once.
Because they're both high school dropouts.
So, like, they never – like, I was one of the only kids in high school to never have a curfew.
Like, my parents knew I was independent and left me – they gave – that's the best thing they did.
It's like, oh, David can take care of himself.
They thought – my mom told me.
She's like, I just thought you were a lot smarter than everybody else in our family.
So, like – We trusted you to make the right decision.
Well, I was also driven, too.
Because you have to understand, like, being smart in this family is not, like, being... Like, the bar is low in the sense that, like, they're both coming from multiple generations of people that did not prioritize education or self-improvement.
So that's why I'm so, like, ferocious in this, because I didn't see that, you know?
This demonstrated when my mom was dying of cancer.
So HIPAA has this thing where they're not going to share paperwork or information unless it gets permission from the person.
And my mom could choose whoever she wanted to.
She could have chose her husband, right?
They had a bad relationship.
They got divorced and then remarried.
They should have stayed divorced, but whatever.
And you see that with actions.
We said that actions express priority.
She's like, we're in there.
And she's like, who do you want the paperwork?
Who do you want us to communicate?
Not her other kids, not her husband, not her sister.
She trusted me implicitly.
And so I essentially, like, they never met in college, so I just kept this routine.
I was like, people are like, oh, okay.
They're like, what do you want to do for a living?
And I remember watching TV when I was younger.
I was like, well, I want to be rich.
And you think when you're younger, you don't know anything.
Like, who's rich on TV?
Like, I liked Fresh Prince of Bel-Air.
I was like, I'm going to be a judge or a doctor.
And I was like, oh, I can't see blood.
Like, that freaks me out.
So now I'm going to be an attorney.
So I went to school.
And I worked full time.
And I was trying to hustle anything I could do.
And so the idea was like, okay, I'm just going to go undergrad for business because I'm interested in business anyways, but I'm only doing that until I go to law school, right?
And the point of this story was not to go on this deviation, but I was in the entrepreneurship program, the pilot one, right?
Because I was already interested in trying to make money in any way possible.
And this is how bad the entrepreneurship was.
And this is why I'm kind of jealous of these young kids where now you actually have an entrepreneurship industry and there's stuff you can learn from.
The head, the main, what is it called?
Like the main subject, Entrepreneurship 101, right?
Yeah, but there's all these other classes, but Entrepreneurship 101 is run the teacher, right?
What is her credentials?
Her dad started an AC company in Florida.
You're going to make a lot of money.
Yeah, that's a good one.
And he died on the job because he got electrocuted to death.
And she inherited the company, and then she ran it, and so she's the teacher.
And so, like, the curriculum was terrible.
The best thing, and this relates to what all we do for a living now, which I could have never predicted, is there was a guy that...
This is kind of like Charlie Munger says you should read, if you want to learn about incentives in a really difficult business, read Les Schwab's autobiography, which I did because Charlie told me to.
I did it like episode a long time ago.
And he's like, this guy made a ton of money in a really hard business, which is like tires and like oil changes and stuff like that.
And so the guy was coming into the class.
He was going to donate like $3 or $5 million to have a building named after him.
And he had one prerequisite.
He goes, I want to talk to your entrepreneurship students before I give you this money.
And I learned more in one hour from that dude than I did in two years on entrepreneurship because he would talk for like 20 minutes and then he's like, open up your questions.
And I lit him up with question after question after question.
And I remember to this day just like the simple way.
This is like, you know.
He was building his business in probably the 80s and 90s.
And he's like, how did you know where to expand?
And he's like, we would pull the car registration data from the DMVs, right?
And we would know how many car owners there were in this specific radius.
And we'd have to hit, like, let's say we need 40,000 car owners in a three-mile radius.
Are there any other stores?
Put a store right there.
And they did that over and over and over and over again.
And so, like, he had ideas like that.
Again, you learn through experience.
Like, that guy could teach us way more because he actually did this compared to...
All right, keep going.
So you majored in computer science?
The content sucks, but the relationships are everything.
It would just be beneficial to just go out and try to sell something.
Get real world experience.
What did Charlie... I just reread.
Have you guys read The Tao of Charlie Munger?
I've heard it's good.
I can't remember if I looked at it for the episode or not.
I own the hardcover, the Kindle.
That should tell you, like, it's worth it.
By the way, I own the audiobook and the Kindle of almost every book that I own.
Including the hardcover, too?
I don't own that many hardcover books.
You're not a hardcover person.
It gives you a basic overview.
It's almost like reading a Wikipedia page before you read the biography.
It's not enough detail, but like you have, okay.
Like watching a movie for the second or third time, you know how it ends and it gives you, you pick up on things you missed the first time.
Um, in the tale of Charlie Munger though, Charlie was talking about this where he's just like, I learned about business at the Buffett grocery store, right?
From the cash register.
It's like, cause that money is the lifeblood of all.
I think the quote in the book is like money is the lifeblood of all businesses.
And that's where the cash, that's where the money was at this point.
And it's like, you just learn.
And he says like, you learn the importance of like showing up on time, how to work with people you don't like, like how to, uh, service, like take care of your customers.
Like these are things that are all like universally applicable, uh,
It's another form of education.
That's the biggest key of experience and why it's so important.
It's the most valuable form of education because it's education of life.
I love to read more than almost anybody else.
You guys obviously love to read.
There's just so much things you can't learn from books.
So it's just like, it's not enough.
He asked Buffett a question at the annual meeting.
I'm a guest lecturer at Princeton.
I love how this just was uncovered in random conversation, right?
It was just like computer science, investment banking, law.
No, but like... No common denominator.
No, and look where... I use theater more than I use computer science.
Like that was what I... Yeah.
Like the idea from venture capitalists and podcasters, right?
I went and my daughter asked me to go speak at Career Day.
This is last year, so she would have been- That's the greatest thing ever.
She would have been in fourth grade, right?
And so she's like, well, Daddy, you have a weird job.
You have a weird job.
Yeah, she's like, will you come in and give a talk?
And so you mentioned earlier, entrepreneurs are like odd ducks and crazy people.
It's like, oh, that's just words written down on paper.
I'll just do my own thing.
I was like, yeah, I'll do anything for you, whatever you want.
And so I show up, and-
And there's two – each class at the school she has has two teachers, right?
And so they're like, oh, well, we didn't – hi, Mr. Senator, we didn't get your email.
Did you get like – did you bring like a thumb drive?
I'm like, what was I supposed to email and why would I have a thumb drive?
And they're like, you're a PowerPoint presentation.
And I go, no, but this is – I go, they're nine.
Why would I make a PowerPoint presentation?
And so I go there, and I was like, listen, I'm fine.
They're like, you're going to wing it.
They didn't use the word wing it, but I forgot what it was.
You're like, no, really.
And they're all sitting on the floor.
And there's like 39-year-olds.
And you're like, stand up.
I want to see some energy.
And I was like, I talk for two minutes, right?
I have a 30-minute slot.
I talked for two minutes.
I was like, listen, don't listen to your parents.
Don't listen to your teachers.
I go, follow whatever you're intensely.
I just gave Charlie Munger's advice.
I go, what are you interested in?
Keep following that.
Even if it doesn't, there's not an obvious career path.
I go, it's highly likely that the job that you're going to have has not yet been invented.
I was like, there was no such thing as a podcaster.
Like, I couldn't go to school for podcasting.
Yeah, they're all going to be prompt engineers.
And like, so that was like the two minute summary.
And I said a little bit more than that.
I go, okay, now what questions do you have for me?
And so I spent the next 28 minutes.
I told him the importance of reading.
I was like, listen, your friends are all going to be these stupid apps.
I was like, you're going to have no attention span, learn how to read and read whatever you're interested in.
Meanwhile, your daughter is probably like, oh, my God.
So I'll tell you the funny thing.
So then 28 minutes, and then they're telling me about books they love.
They're like, oh, I like Harry Potter, and I like this, and I like travel.
And we had like the greatest time, right?
There's like 9 in the morning.
And my daughter gets out later on in the day, and she goes –
daddy thank you very much my friends thought your talk was the best i was like oh that's like interesting like that's i'm glad they liked i go well let me ask you a question who came after me and they're like oh it was you know john's mom or something i was like oh what does john's mom do she's like uh i go well first i should do a powerpoint she goes yes everybody did powerpoint and i go what does john's mom do she goes oh she's a corporate attorney i'm like yeah so you like
They're nine years old.
It'd be interesting like what you would... Yeah, but then again, I was living in Florida and like the law there is not a lot... Like you'd have to move to like D.C.
Like the law there is like...
insurance like so i'm at the san francisco airport right which is way nicer than miami international airport by the way it's like i've never been to miami oh it's like third world man it's like the ceilings are low they have the new they built like this new part but sfo is way nicer than mine and i see this billboard of it says the world's are the america's largest personal injury attorney
That guy was in Orlando.
I was going to school in Orlando at the time.
His name's John Morgan.
He was famous back then, and now he has.
So, like, that would probably work for him.
Like, I'm, like, chasing ambulances or whatever.
Like, whatever you gotta do to pay your bills.
Like, I have no problem with that.
Yeah, I just thought it was funny.
I was like, you also have to think independently.
They're nine years old.
They don't want to sit through.
I don't even want to sit through a PowerPoint.
Nobody wants to sit through a PowerPoint.
No, you should try to... I would have just brought a video game console or something.
I was like, that's my video game console.
That's a viable career.
Blake and Mitch, Blake Robbins and Mitch Lasky, made the point in one of their GameCraft episodes that I never even thought of.
You know how hard it is?
How few pure software companies are that sell over a billion dollars a year in software?
And how many game companies?
They said on the podcast, there's so many video game companies that make so much money.
I think they say this is bigger than...
The video game industry is bigger than music, movies, and books combined or whatever.
And it has been since the 90s.
People used to say like, if you love what you do, you do it for free. And I was like, wait, no, no, there's a different level. If you love what you do, they couldn't pay you to stop. And when I realized like how much money would you have had to give Steve Jobs to not work at Apple? The answer is there is no, it was not, you couldn't pay him.
People used to say like, if you love what you do, you do it for free. And I was like, wait, no, no, there's a different level. If you love what you do, they couldn't pay you to stop. And when I realized like how much money would you have had to give Steve Jobs to not work at Apple? The answer is there is no, it was not, you couldn't pay him.
I'll give you $2 trillion, Steve, but you can't ever work on an Apple. You can't build a product in. He'd say, no, he's not doing, that's not what he's doing. He liked hitting the ball. He liked making great products, the best part, some of the best products in the world. And he did that until he died. Um, so yeah, I think that's, uh, yeah, there's all kinds of people.
I'll give you $2 trillion, Steve, but you can't ever work on an Apple. You can't build a product in. He'd say, no, he's not doing, that's not what he's doing. He liked hitting the ball. He liked making great products, the best part, some of the best products in the world. And he did that until he died. Um, so yeah, I think that's, uh, yeah, there's all kinds of people.
Some people are like, Hey, this is a good way of fast way of the wealth creation. I'm going to start a scale sell. And then they peace out. Um, but I think the greatest founders, the people that are like, they're doing it for other reasons. I'm going to show you how great I am. This was our finest hour.
Some people are like, Hey, this is a good way of fast way of the wealth creation. I'm going to start a scale sell. And then they peace out. Um, but I think the greatest founders, the people that are like, they're doing it for other reasons. I'm going to show you how great I am. This was our finest hour.
Good. I feel like we're doing podcasts all the time like this. We just never record any of our conversations.
Good. I feel like we're doing podcasts all the time like this. We just never record any of our conversations.
Um, you're how, like, you're pretty religious, right? You go to church every week. How long? Every week. So I grew up like fundamentalist Christian, like, uh, to the point where like my mom, when she got cancer, like she tried to like, her first thing was like trying to pray it away. And when I mean fundamentalist Christian, I mean, like, there's a guy named, like, Benny Hinn.
Um, you're how, like, you're pretty religious, right? You go to church every week. How long? Every week. So I grew up like fundamentalist Christian, like, uh, to the point where like my mom, when she got cancer, like she tried to like, her first thing was like trying to pray it away. And when I mean fundamentalist Christian, I mean, like, there's a guy named, like, Benny Hinn.
He was, like, famous in, like, the 80s and 90s. And he'd be one of these preachers where, like, you'd go to him and, you know, he'd, like, blow on you or, like, hit you in the head and say, like, you're cured of cancer. So they're pretty, like, in my opinion, like, extreme.
He was, like, famous in, like, the 80s and 90s. And he'd be one of these preachers where, like, you'd go to him and, you know, he'd, like, blow on you or, like, hit you in the head and say, like, you're cured of cancer. So they're pretty, like, in my opinion, like, extreme.
But, like, the benefit of that is, like, I essentially was forced to go to church every Wednesday and Sunday for, like, most of my childhood. Yeah. And what I think the, I think the best description of founders I've ever heard is like that it's church for entrepreneurs. It's like when you go, you're obviously Mormon. I grew up Christian. It's not like you guys go to church on Saturdays or Sundays.
But, like, the benefit of that is, like, I essentially was forced to go to church every Wednesday and Sunday for, like, most of my childhood. Yeah. And what I think the, I think the best description of founders I've ever heard is like that it's church for entrepreneurs. It's like when you go, you're obviously Mormon. I grew up Christian. It's not like you guys go to church on Saturdays or Sundays.
It's Saturday, right? Sundays. Okay. It's not like this Sunday, the preacher is going to be like, okay, enough of the Bible. Like we're going to move on to another book or we're going to talk about this other guy. And so I think if you actually look through, like, I'm very interested in things that last a long time.
It's Saturday, right? Sundays. Okay. It's not like this Sunday, the preacher is going to be like, okay, enough of the Bible. Like we're going to move on to another book or we're going to talk about this other guy. And so I think if you actually look through, like, I'm very interested in things that last a long time.
Most of the people that you and I read about, it's not like, oh, they had a new idea and they changed professions every year. No, like they had an idea and they did it for a very, very long time. And I think if you look at things throughout human history that last a long time, you can actually draw a lot of lessons from it. So like, you know, countries last longer than companies, right?
Most of the people that you and I read about, it's not like, oh, they had a new idea and they changed professions every year. No, like they had an idea and they did it for a very, very long time. And I think if you look at things throughout human history that last a long time, you can actually draw a lot of lessons from it. So like, you know, countries last longer than companies, right?
But religions last longer than countries. So why do religions persist and endure? And I think a lot of it is, one, they usually have some kind of sacred text, like a book that they read from or they constantly revisit. They obviously have a leader. And then they gather together at certain frequencies with like-minded people.
But religions last longer than countries. So why do religions persist and endure? And I think a lot of it is, one, they usually have some kind of sacred text, like a book that they read from or they constantly revisit. They obviously have a leader. And then they gather together at certain frequencies with like-minded people.
And I think there's actually a lot of analogies there that you can draw and put to companies. So What you hit on is absolutely right. The things that most excite me is not necessarily novelty, even though that does occur every once in a while.
And I think there's actually a lot of analogies there that you can draw and put to companies. So What you hit on is absolutely right. The things that most excite me is not necessarily novelty, even though that does occur every once in a while.
It's these ideas that people that didn't know each other, that lived at different times, lived in different parts of the earth, and worked in different industries, all arrived at the same conclusion through experience. So yeah, I would say that I still find... I find, like, interesting applications. So, like, let me give you an example.
It's these ideas that people that didn't know each other, that lived at different times, lived in different parts of the earth, and worked in different industries, all arrived at the same conclusion through experience. So yeah, I would say that I still find... I find, like, interesting applications. So, like, let me give you an example.
I just did this episode on this guy named Todd Graves, who's the founder of Raising Gains, which seems like a weird thing for me to cover. Other than, like, everybody always asks me, like, who are my favorite living entrepreneurs since I studied debt entrepreneurs? And I keep bringing up Todd Graves. I'm like, who the hell is Todd Graves?
I just did this episode on this guy named Todd Graves, who's the founder of Raising Gains, which seems like a weird thing for me to cover. Other than, like, everybody always asks me, like, who are my favorite living entrepreneurs since I studied debt entrepreneurs? And I keep bringing up Todd Graves. I'm like, who the hell is Todd Graves?
It's like he's a guy with a $10 billion chicken finger dream. But, like, all companies need to figure out a way, like, how do you finance a company at the beginning, right? Now, his application is very unusual. Like, he went and worked shift work as a boilermaker, working 95-hour weeks for five to six weeks at a time, fixing things in refineries.
It's like he's a guy with a $10 billion chicken finger dream. But, like, all companies need to figure out a way, like, how do you finance a company at the beginning, right? Now, his application is very unusual. Like, he went and worked shift work as a boilermaker, working 95-hour weeks for five to six weeks at a time, fixing things in refineries.
Then from there, he learns from his other boilermakers, hey, you make a lot of money if you're willing to risk your life and you go up to Alaska and work the summer on these boats where people are falling over and dying. If you survive, you'll make a bunch of money. He lived in a tent to do that. That's a new application. Then he saves up his own money.
Then from there, he learns from his other boilermakers, hey, you make a lot of money if you're willing to risk your life and you go up to Alaska and work the summer on these boats where people are falling over and dying. If you survive, you'll make a bunch of money. He lived in a tent to do that. That's a new application. Then he saves up his own money.
Then he scrounges up some startup money from his bookie and this boilermaker named Wild Bill. So, like, The idea is the same, right? You need to figure out how to finance your company that you want to start. Sometimes it'll be the customers, the bank loans, venture capitalists, whatever cases. This guy's like, hey, I'm going to risk my life.
Then he scrounges up some startup money from his bookie and this boilermaker named Wild Bill. So, like, The idea is the same, right? You need to figure out how to finance your company that you want to start. Sometimes it'll be the customers, the bank loans, venture capitalists, whatever cases. This guy's like, hey, I'm going to risk my life.
I'm going to live in a tent and then I'm going to borrow money from a bookie. So I would say mostly I feel like I'm just telling the same story over and over again every week through a different personality. And that's what makes it powerful.
I'm going to live in a tent and then I'm going to borrow money from a bookie. So I would say mostly I feel like I'm just telling the same story over and over again every week through a different personality. And that's what makes it powerful.
What was the, I love the episode you did on Horatio. What's his last name? Nelson. Yeah, it was so good. And especially when he's just like, this is my time to die. I'm not going anywhere. I love the ending. This is something you and I talk about a bunch.
What was the, I love the episode you did on Horatio. What's his last name? Nelson. Yeah, it was so good. And especially when he's just like, this is my time to die. I'm not going anywhere. I love the ending. This is something you and I talk about a bunch.
I remember when we were together in Austin, it was like me, one night it was like me, you and like Cliff Weitzman and we were talking about podcasting. And we're talking about your podcast a lot. And then, you know, I had a bunch of like thoughts. And then I said, wait a minute, how many episodes have you done? And it was like 90. I was like, there's nothing to talk about.
I remember when we were together in Austin, it was like me, one night it was like me, you and like Cliff Weitzman and we were talking about podcasting. And we're talking about your podcast a lot. And then, you know, I had a bunch of like thoughts. And then I said, wait a minute, how many episodes have you done? And it was like 90. I was like, there's nothing to talk about.
Like nobody, I had 90 episodes. Nobody was listening to my podcast. I have 391, I think now, because some of them aren't numbered. And it is just, I've tried to overwhelm people with it. And even though I'm eight years in, Like, let me give you an example. I'm really like kind of nutty about this where I just got invited to like this fancy invite only investor conference. Like 15 people there.
Like nobody, I had 90 episodes. Nobody was listening to my podcast. I have 391, I think now, because some of them aren't numbered. And it is just, I've tried to overwhelm people with it. And even though I'm eight years in, Like, let me give you an example. I'm really like kind of nutty about this where I just got invited to like this fancy invite only investor conference. Like 15 people there.
Right. And more than half the people had listened to founders or whatever. But I found the people that didn't listen to founders and I hunted them down. And literally I would go and talk to them and I'm like, hey, let me see your phone. And I would, and our friend, our mutual friend, Patrick O'Shaughnessy was there. And this happened a few times where he made a comment at the conference.
Right. And more than half the people had listened to founders or whatever. But I found the people that didn't listen to founders and I hunted them down. And literally I would go and talk to them and I'm like, hey, let me see your phone. And I would, and our friend, our mutual friend, Patrick O'Shaughnessy was there. And this happened a few times where he made a comment at the conference.
I would literally grab the guy's phone and you'd show up and I'm like, oh, here it is. It's on Spotify now. Follow. It doesn't matter what the episode is. You might not know who it is. When it pops up, just press play. Listen on one and a half speed.
I would literally grab the guy's phone and you'd show up and I'm like, oh, here it is. It's on Spotify now. Follow. It doesn't matter what the episode is. You might not know who it is. When it pops up, just press play. Listen on one and a half speed.
That means in 40 minutes, you'll be able to listen to a whole episode that this guy spent 40 years building his company and I spent 40 hours reading and you can listen to it in 40 minutes. So I do think, I believe in that. Just the constant pressure, constant promoting. If you're proud of what you're doing, and I'm very proud of what I'm doing, I have no problem you know, telling people about it.
That means in 40 minutes, you'll be able to listen to a whole episode that this guy spent 40 years building his company and I spent 40 hours reading and you can listen to it in 40 minutes. So I do think, I believe in that. Just the constant pressure, constant promoting. If you're proud of what you're doing, and I'm very proud of what I'm doing, I have no problem you know, telling people about it.
And, you know, and the way you do that is like, it's a very noisy world. Like, so I'll tweet constantly. I will post constantly. I will repost things because dude, I repost episodes. I guarantee you now because you have more followers, more people listen to your podcast than ever.
And, you know, and the way you do that is like, it's a very noisy world. Like, so I'll tweet constantly. I will post constantly. I will repost things because dude, I repost episodes. I guarantee you now because you have more followers, more people listen to your podcast than ever.
If you have a great episode, it's a line from David Overy where he's like, you're not advertising to standing army or advertising to moving parade. I just put up this episode, this episode by Chung Ju Young, who's the founder of Hyundai. I think it's like episode like 117. I did it like five years ago. Every week somebody would reach out to me about listening to that episode.
If you have a great episode, it's a line from David Overy where he's like, you're not advertising to standing army or advertising to moving parade. I just put up this episode, this episode by Chung Ju Young, who's the founder of Hyundai. I think it's like episode like 117. I did it like five years ago. Every week somebody would reach out to me about listening to that episode.
I was like, oh, that's kind of weird. Like that one really resonated. So I spent a few hours re-editing it, cutting it and doing everything else and then republishing it. And then now a ton of people listen to it that didn't, didn't, you know, go 300 episodes back in my back catalog and find it.
I was like, oh, that's kind of weird. Like that one really resonated. So I spent a few hours re-editing it, cutting it and doing everything else and then republishing it. And then now a ton of people listen to it that didn't, didn't, you know, go 300 episodes back in my back catalog and find it.
So yeah, I just, I'm shameless about, you know, promoting my work because I think without a doubt, I know if people listen to it and they apply the lessons, like it will make their life better.
So yeah, I just, I'm shameless about, you know, promoting my work because I think without a doubt, I know if people listen to it and they apply the lessons, like it will make their life better.
Reading. Just reading. Like I have a very weird, think of an odd personality in the I'd be fine if half of my conscious life, the time that I'm awake, I could spend completely alone. And if I'm alone, it's like I'm very curious in general. So I love to read and love to learn. I don't know. I like to understand things. I want to have a better understanding of the world.
Reading. Just reading. Like I have a very weird, think of an odd personality in the I'd be fine if half of my conscious life, the time that I'm awake, I could spend completely alone. And if I'm alone, it's like I'm very curious in general. So I love to read and love to learn. I don't know. I like to understand things. I want to have a better understanding of the world.
And then I'm really looking for information that can help me prosper in the world and make my life better. And the reason I know the information that I share on the podcast is beneficial because it's made my life better. So I figure, oh, if I just sit down and record it, it's an act of service to other people and it'll make their lives better.
And then I'm really looking for information that can help me prosper in the world and make my life better. And the reason I know the information that I share on the podcast is beneficial because it's made my life better. So I figure, oh, if I just sit down and record it, it's an act of service to other people and it'll make their lives better.
But no, I don't have a lot of passions by any means other than I really like to work. I get annoyed, like I'm about to go on vacation. I'm kind of annoyed about it. I'm kind of going against my will. And if people knew what the vacation was, they'd be like, this is incredible. But it's like the time away from podcasting. But at the same time, my kids are excited. My wife's excited.
But no, I don't have a lot of passions by any means other than I really like to work. I get annoyed, like I'm about to go on vacation. I'm kind of annoyed about it. I'm kind of going against my will. And if people knew what the vacation was, they'd be like, this is incredible. But it's like the time away from podcasting. But at the same time, my kids are excited. My wife's excited.
But yeah, it's just working, podcasting, reading. And I really like, like building my business. Like it's, it's addicting. It's fun. It's what I'm going to do. I mentioned this in the Todd Graves episode I just did where, you know, Todd was talking about, he's been doing the same business for 30 years. He owns 90% of his business. It's worth at least $10 million.
But yeah, it's just working, podcasting, reading. And I really like, like building my business. Like it's, it's addicting. It's fun. It's what I'm going to do. I mentioned this in the Todd Graves episode I just did where, you know, Todd was talking about, he's been doing the same business for 30 years. He owns 90% of his business. It's worth at least $10 million.
He's been offered billions of dollars. He's just like, I'm on a God given mission. Like I'll never sell. and they're like, are you worried? If you think about it, in the QSR, fast food restaurants, all corporate-owned, all the founders are gone. So he's like, who are you competing against? He's like, non-founder-led companies. Mercenaries, not missionaries. They're run by accountants.
He's been offered billions of dollars. He's just like, I'm on a God given mission. Like I'll never sell. and they're like, are you worried? If you think about it, in the QSR, fast food restaurants, all corporate-owned, all the founders are gone. So he's like, who are you competing against? He's like, non-founder-led companies. Mercenaries, not missionaries. They're run by accountants.
And his point was like, he was asked, who do you fear? And he's like, I fear the young guy that has the same fire that I do that is coming directly at me. And his point was like, that's fine. I'm all for competition. But if you're going to do that, just know this is my life. You better get up early. You better go to bed late. You better be working every day. And I mentioned the podcast.
And his point was like, he was asked, who do you fear? And he's like, I fear the young guy that has the same fire that I do that is coming directly at me. And his point was like, that's fine. I'm all for competition. But if you're going to do that, just know this is my life. You better get up early. You better go to bed late. You better be working every day. And I mentioned the podcast.
I recorded that on a Sunday. I was laughing because I'm doing the outline and I just happened to look at the clock. And it was 9.05 p.m. on a Saturday night. And, like, I'm doing exactly what I wanted to do, which is, like, work on the podcast.
I recorded that on a Sunday. I was laughing because I'm doing the outline and I just happened to look at the clock. And it was 9.05 p.m. on a Saturday night. And, like, I'm doing exactly what I wanted to do, which is, like, work on the podcast.
No, he never uses the word chicken strips.
No, he never uses the word chicken strips.
So James Dyson, who I am completely obsessed with, I've done four episodes on. Every 100 episodes, I'm rereading his first autobiography. So I'm about to come up on episode 400. That'll be James Dyson's autobiography because I think it's really important to reread books again. We kind of spoke to the influence of religion. And I think revisiting the same ideas over and over again is really good.
So James Dyson, who I am completely obsessed with, I've done four episodes on. Every 100 episodes, I'm rereading his first autobiography. So I'm about to come up on episode 400. That'll be James Dyson's autobiography because I think it's really important to reread books again. We kind of spoke to the influence of religion. And I think revisiting the same ideas over and over again is really good.
But he makes that point in his first autobiography. He's just like, well, listen, if you could just improve an existing product, the good news is you don't have to invent the market. Now, inventing the market is a phenomenal way to build a monopoly. You literally can define and create the category that your product operates in. It's just extremely rare and really hard.
But he makes that point in his first autobiography. He's just like, well, listen, if you could just improve an existing product, the good news is you don't have to invent the market. Now, inventing the market is a phenomenal way to build a monopoly. You literally can define and create the category that your product operates in. It's just extremely rare and really hard.
And his whole point was just like, there were vacuum cleaners forever before I started. And he wound up just making the world's best vacuum cleaner. And even now, like, am I ever going to buy another vacuum cleaner that's not Dyson as long as he's alive? No. And it's like, you can buy a vacuum cleaner on Amazon for like 30 bucks. I think it'd be like 600 for mine or 500.
And his whole point was just like, there were vacuum cleaners forever before I started. And he wound up just making the world's best vacuum cleaner. And even now, like, am I ever going to buy another vacuum cleaner that's not Dyson as long as he's alive? No. And it's like, you can buy a vacuum cleaner on Amazon for like 30 bucks. I think it'd be like 600 for mine or 500.
And it literally is the best one in the world. Um, and I think like the, the, the insight there is exactly what you described, where it's like, dude, go to all these fast, like fast foods been around forever, you know, multiple, multiple decades. Uh, shortly, it appears shortly after the invention of the car. And it's like. Go to McDonald's and eat their chicken and go to Gray's and Cane's.
And it literally is the best one in the world. Um, and I think like the, the, the insight there is exactly what you described, where it's like, dude, go to all these fast, like fast foods been around forever, you know, multiple, multiple decades. Uh, shortly, it appears shortly after the invention of the car. And it's like. Go to McDonald's and eat their chicken and go to Gray's and Cane's.
Just tell me the difference. And I just introduced my brother and sister who never had it before. I was just visiting them. And I was like, have you guys ever had Gray's and Cane's? Like, no, what's that? And I was like, dude, we got to go. And I went and the store that I went to just opened up and it's completely packed. It's like they have a cult-like following.
Just tell me the difference. And I just introduced my brother and sister who never had it before. I was just visiting them. And I was like, have you guys ever had Gray's and Cane's? Like, no, what's that? And I was like, dude, we got to go. And I went and the store that I went to just opened up and it's completely packed. It's like they have a cult-like following.
And he positions all his stores around competitors. So across the street, Wendy's. Not a single fucking person in the drive-thru at Wendy's. And you have 200 people trying to get into the Raising Cane's across the street. And again, I think this is just people aren't paying enough attention. It's just like, what do you use in your daily life if you're looking for a business idea?
And he positions all his stores around competitors. So across the street, Wendy's. Not a single fucking person in the drive-thru at Wendy's. And you have 200 people trying to get into the Raising Cane's across the street. And again, I think this is just people aren't paying enough attention. It's just like, what do you use in your daily life if you're looking for a business idea?
Like, what do you use in your daily life? Like, this sucks. Guess what? There's no chance in hell that you're the only person on the planet that also thinks this thing sucks. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like, what do you use in your daily life? Like, this sucks. Guess what? There's no chance in hell that you're the only person on the planet that also thinks this thing sucks. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, maybe I'm just not a fried chicken guy because there's nothing I can tell you that I'm like, oh. Yeah, okay. Some people don't like fried chicken, but if people eat fried chicken, it's going to be one or two on the list.
Well, maybe I'm just not a fried chicken guy because there's nothing I can tell you that I'm like, oh. Yeah, okay. Some people don't like fried chicken, but if people eat fried chicken, it's going to be one or two on the list.
Oh, AI, for sure. I'm always very skeptical of everybody rushing into trends. I think the mimetic nature of humans is something that's been well-documented. It's obvious if you just open your eyes. And so I kind of resisted it, and then I started using it. I'm like, oh, this is absolutely incredible. And so now... I'm in, I use different AI apps every single day.
Oh, AI, for sure. I'm always very skeptical of everybody rushing into trends. I think the mimetic nature of humans is something that's been well-documented. It's obvious if you just open your eyes. And so I kind of resisted it, and then I started using it. I'm like, oh, this is absolutely incredible. And so now... I'm in, I use different AI apps every single day.
I built my own to keep track of all the other stuff. So again, the other idea, we'll come back to that. The other idea about finding a simple idea and take it seriously, that's a great Charlie Munger quote. There's also one that's related where he says, we often find the winning system in business goes ridiculously far, minimizing and or maximizing one or a few variables.
I built my own to keep track of all the other stuff. So again, the other idea, we'll come back to that. The other idea about finding a simple idea and take it seriously, that's a great Charlie Munger quote. There's also one that's related where he says, we often find the winning system in business goes ridiculously far, minimizing and or maximizing one or a few variables.
And so I think in our trade, same situation. It's like I take, if you look at like my note taking, how I organize my highlights, the bookshelf behind me is literally, if you start in that upper left-hand corner, the books are all organized in episode, in order by episode number.
And so I think in our trade, same situation. It's like I take, if you look at like my note taking, how I organize my highlights, the bookshelf behind me is literally, if you start in that upper left-hand corner, the books are all organized in episode, in order by episode number.
I take, like I go ridiculously far, in this case, maximizing one or a few variables, which is like organizing the collective knowledge of history's greatest entrepreneurs. And that is like this flywheel effect where it's like, when I did the Todd Graves episode, like for example, because I have all this information organized, I can pull it up and summarize it.
I take, like I go ridiculously far, in this case, maximizing one or a few variables, which is like organizing the collective knowledge of history's greatest entrepreneurs. And that is like this flywheel effect where it's like, when I did the Todd Graves episode, like for example, because I have all this information organized, I can pull it up and summarize it.
And then I also spend hours every day rereading past highlights. I'm able to do an episode on Todd Graves, but then I made a list of all the other founders I compared him to in that episode.
And then I also spend hours every day rereading past highlights. I'm able to do an episode on Todd Graves, but then I made a list of all the other founders I compared him to in that episode.
So it was Rockefeller, David Ogilvie, Steve Jobs, Fred Smith, founder of FedEx, Phil Knight, founder of Nike, Peter Thiel, Harry Snyder, founder of In-N-Out, Sam Walton, the Red Bull guy, James Dyson, Daniel Ludwig, who's the invisible billionaire, Michael Bloomberg, Henry Ford. And so that's another example of like, of, you know, maximizing one or a few variables.
So it was Rockefeller, David Ogilvie, Steve Jobs, Fred Smith, founder of FedEx, Phil Knight, founder of Nike, Peter Thiel, Harry Snyder, founder of In-N-Out, Sam Walton, the Red Bull guy, James Dyson, Daniel Ludwig, who's the invisible billionaire, Michael Bloomberg, Henry Ford. And so that's another example of like, of, you know, maximizing one or a few variables.
In this sense, it's like the one variables I'm maximizing. It's not good enough for me to make an episode about something because we forget as humans, we forget that we forget. I go back and reread a book that I've read four times and I still forget, forgot certain parts of it. I'll go listen to a podcast I did five years ago. It's like, oh, I forgot about all that. So we forget that we forget.
In this sense, it's like the one variables I'm maximizing. It's not good enough for me to make an episode about something because we forget as humans, we forget that we forget. I go back and reread a book that I've read four times and I still forget, forgot certain parts of it. I'll go listen to a podcast I did five years ago. It's like, oh, I forgot about all that. So we forget that we forget.
And so, um, the, this is where now, if you actually look at my consumption habits, you know, I'm using Claude every day. I'm using open AI every day. The deep researcher feature from open AI is the, the jump from Google to the first, you know, chat GPT, uh, uh, That jump was huge, and then I feel OpenAI's deep research feature is as large from the normal AI chatbots to that.
And so, um, the, this is where now, if you actually look at my consumption habits, you know, I'm using Claude every day. I'm using open AI every day. The deep researcher feature from open AI is the, the jump from Google to the first, you know, chat GPT, uh, uh, That jump was huge, and then I feel OpenAI's deep research feature is as large from the normal AI chatbots to that.
It's freaking incredible. I've been using it to make episodes, and literally the lines that people will give back to me
It's freaking incredible. I've been using it to make episodes, and literally the lines that people will give back to me
not they're not even the books they're from open as deep research uh so i use i i subscribe to them all i built my own obviously called sage i use that every day i use perplexity every day i use claude i use open ai um i can't think of any other ones but like that was that's a truly unique technology yeah are you using it at all to make in your research uh i'm not using it very much in my research you're using in your day-to-day life
not they're not even the books they're from open as deep research uh so i use i i subscribe to them all i built my own obviously called sage i use that every day i use perplexity every day i use claude i use open ai um i can't think of any other ones but like that was that's a truly unique technology yeah are you using it at all to make in your research uh i'm not using it very much in my research you're using in your day-to-day life
I think you should. It's so important. Most people, what they do is as they age, this is why technology is like a young man's game. My friend Ravi Gupta wrote this great essay called AI or Die. And his whole point is these tools are so wonderful for people like you and I in general, for super productive people. You force yourself to spend a few hours every week learning how to use this.
I think you should. It's so important. Most people, what they do is as they age, this is why technology is like a young man's game. My friend Ravi Gupta wrote this great essay called AI or Die. And his whole point is these tools are so wonderful for people like you and I in general, for super productive people. You force yourself to spend a few hours every week learning how to use this.
I listen to these AI podcasts to get ideas. And I even think it'd be a good idea. Bill Gates had this idea where he do these think weeks and this has come up on the books a few times where it's like, you got to get, you got to get away from your day to day. And he would bring like, you know, bag of books and he'd sit in like a cabin or something. I can't remember where he went.
I listen to these AI podcasts to get ideas. And I even think it'd be a good idea. Bill Gates had this idea where he do these think weeks and this has come up on the books a few times where it's like, you got to get, you got to get away from your day to day. And he would bring like, you know, bag of books and he'd sit in like a cabin or something. I can't remember where he went.
And he would just no internet, no nothing, just read and think for like a week or two straight, maybe a week. I think I'm going to start doing that. But not just reading is like literally trying to consume and make myself get good at using these tools because so much of the value extraction is dependent because we're in early stages.
And he would just no internet, no nothing, just read and think for like a week or two straight, maybe a week. I think I'm going to start doing that. But not just reading is like literally trying to consume and make myself get good at using these tools because so much of the value extraction is dependent because we're in early stages.
So much of the value extraction is dependent on the person on how you're able to prom on how to be able to use them. It's not like just picking up your iPhone. My dad can barely read, right? But he has an iPhone and he has one, he literally doesn't use email or anything else, but he has one app on his phone, it's TikTok.
So much of the value extraction is dependent on the person on how you're able to prom on how to be able to use them. It's not like just picking up your iPhone. My dad can barely read, right? But he has an iPhone and he has one, he literally doesn't use email or anything else, but he has one app on his phone, it's TikTok.
Because TikTok doesn't ask anything from the user, just to scroll and like, and it'll serve everything up. AI is not, it's the opposite. You've got to learn how to extract information
Because TikTok doesn't ask anything from the user, just to scroll and like, and it'll serve everything up. AI is not, it's the opposite. You've got to learn how to extract information
all the power that it has out and the only way to do that is to literally treat it like a you know part-time job or like a course like imagine if you went back to your friend mba just like okay i'm gonna do an hour class every night on just learning how to use ai do you um use it at all to structure your notes or your thoughts or you just use it for research
all the power that it has out and the only way to do that is to literally treat it like a you know part-time job or like a course like imagine if you went back to your friend mba just like okay i'm gonna do an hour class every night on just learning how to use ai do you um use it at all to structure your notes or your thoughts or you just use it for research
So not to structure my notes or thoughts. So I have an AI trained on... I have an AI that just... The only thing you can use it to search is all of my notes, all of my highlights, and all of my transcripts. And that alone is nuts. So right now I have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 of... 15 of, it's called Sage, up 15 tabs in my browser.
So not to structure my notes or thoughts. So I have an AI trained on... I have an AI that just... The only thing you can use it to search is all of my notes, all of my highlights, and all of my transcripts. And that alone is nuts. So right now I have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 of... 15 of, it's called Sage, up 15 tabs in my browser.
And so like, I use it a lot when I'm reading too. Or like, I'll be on a conversation with a friend of mine who's usually a founder. Actually, I don't talk to anybody that's not a founder. And they'll just say something or they'll have a question and I'm like, I'll prompt Sage because of this. Or like, let me give an example. I just used the, I just made the Todd Graves episode.
And so like, I use it a lot when I'm reading too. Or like, I'll be on a conversation with a friend of mine who's usually a founder. Actually, I don't talk to anybody that's not a founder. And they'll just say something or they'll have a question and I'm like, I'll prompt Sage because of this. Or like, let me give an example. I just used the, I just made the Todd Graves episode.
And this is the unfair advantage. This is why like, I told, me and you have talked about this over and over again, podcasting is like one of the most valuable tools to learn that history's ever, that humans have ever made. And they're some of the most under, they're still misunderstood, widely misunderstood. People that are outside of podcasting don't realize how powerful they are.
And this is the unfair advantage. This is why like, I told, me and you have talked about this over and over again, podcasting is like one of the most valuable tools to learn that history's ever, that humans have ever made. And they're some of the most under, they're still misunderstood, widely misunderstood. People that are outside of podcasting don't realize how powerful they are.
And so therefore, anything I can keep doing to keep getting to the top of my profession, Like every hour I can spend getting better at podcasting or understanding in a deeper level is better than, you know, 10 hours working on something new. And I think what I've done here is like just this, I have an unfair advantage against other podcasters and just keep fucking compounding.
And so therefore, anything I can keep doing to keep getting to the top of my profession, Like every hour I can spend getting better at podcasting or understanding in a deeper level is better than, you know, 10 hours working on something new. And I think what I've done here is like just this, I have an unfair advantage against other podcasters and just keep fucking compounding.
And so I'm sitting here thinking about Todd Graves. I'm like, man, this guy is so much like the In-N-Out founder. It's essentially what, I feel like Todd Graves is Harry Snyder, who's the founder of In-N-Out reincarnated. Except they're separated by like, you know, 50 years. Todd Graves founded Raising Cane's, I think, in 1996. In-N-Out was founded in 1948.
And so I'm sitting here thinking about Todd Graves. I'm like, man, this guy is so much like the In-N-Out founder. It's essentially what, I feel like Todd Graves is Harry Snyder, who's the founder of In-N-Out reincarnated. Except they're separated by like, you know, 50 years. Todd Graves founded Raising Cane's, I think, in 1996. In-N-Out was founded in 1948.
And so I just asked, because I've done deep episodes on Harry Snyder, I asked Sage, can you give me the most important ideas from Harry Snyder and how he built In-N-Out? And within...
And so I just asked, because I've done deep episodes on Harry Snyder, I asked Sage, can you give me the most important ideas from Harry Snyder and how he built In-N-Out? And within...
15 seconds it's like a complete list of all the innovations he made like you know everybody has gone through a drive-thru and spoken at a at a at a speaker right hey what do you want i'm at mcdonald's i want a big mac harry snyder was the one that invented that right i forgot that i did the episode i forgot that so like it just goes through all the stuff he did how he was different from his competitors and it's probably 600 words so it doesn't take that long to read
15 seconds it's like a complete list of all the innovations he made like you know everybody has gone through a drive-thru and spoken at a at a at a speaker right hey what do you want i'm at mcdonald's i want a big mac harry snyder was the one that invented that right i forgot that i did the episode i forgot that so like it just goes through all the stuff he did how he was different from his competitors and it's probably 600 words so it doesn't take that long to read
maybe 800 words, you know? But it immediately reminded me of all the main ideas from that. So yeah, I think, I told you before, if you organize, even if you don't, I happen to, people ask for my notes and highlights so much, so actually, this stuff actually turned into a product and like an extension of the podcast.
maybe 800 words, you know? But it immediately reminded me of all the main ideas from that. So yeah, I think, I told you before, if you organize, even if you don't, I happen to, people ask for my notes and highlights so much, so actually, this stuff actually turned into a product and like an extension of the podcast.
But even if you don't do that, I think you should definitely, think of all the reading and research you're doing. Like, yeah, you should have it all. And I can connect you with the people that can build this for you too. But I would have, I would be layering an AI assistant on top of all your research, and I think every professional is going to do that.
But even if you don't do that, I think you should definitely, think of all the reading and research you're doing. Like, yeah, you should have it all. And I can connect you with the people that can build this for you too. But I would have, I would be layering an AI assistant on top of all your research, and I think every professional is going to do that.
And I think you're going to be able to buy or subscribe to the AI assistance from other professionals, because I'm already proving this. There's thousands of people that pay to get access to Siege.
And I think you're going to be able to buy or subscribe to the AI assistance from other professionals, because I'm already proving this. There's thousands of people that pay to get access to Siege.
That was your problem.
That was your problem.
Yeah, basically. Now, Todd, some of these episodes are different. where like Todd Graves, there's no book. So what I did is I took, he's got two in-depth podcast interviews. So I was like, okay, well, I'll just turn these into, I'll get the transcripts and essentially make a miniature book. And I went through the transcripts just like I did for a book, right? The process is always the same.
Yeah, basically. Now, Todd, some of these episodes are different. where like Todd Graves, there's no book. So what I did is I took, he's got two in-depth podcast interviews. So I was like, okay, well, I'll just turn these into, I'll get the transcripts and essentially make a miniature book. And I went through the transcripts just like I did for a book, right? The process is always the same.
And I don't, Like, one of the most boring things... This is actually... We can talk about, too. I think the best analogy for podcasters is actually filmmakers. Because you mentioned, like, oh, being open with, like, your process or, like, we share a bunch of information. It's just, like... It doesn't...
And I don't, Like, one of the most boring things... This is actually... We can talk about, too. I think the best analogy for podcasters is actually filmmakers. Because you mentioned, like, oh, being open with, like, your process or, like, we share a bunch of information. It's just, like... It doesn't...
Like I did like six episodes on all these filmmakers, like the greatest filmmakers, Steven Spielberg, George Lucas, Quentin Tarantino, Christopher Nolan, James Cameron. And what you realize, like a lot of these people knew each other and they would help each other because at the end of the day, it's like people like, oh, has Ben a competitor?
Like I did like six episodes on all these filmmakers, like the greatest filmmakers, Steven Spielberg, George Lucas, Quentin Tarantino, Christopher Nolan, James Cameron. And what you realize, like a lot of these people knew each other and they would help each other because at the end of the day, it's like people like, oh, has Ben a competitor?
I was like, no, he's not a competitor because you can just like in the same way that you could go watch Steven Spielberg's Jaws one week and go watch George Lucas's Star Wars next week. Doesn't affect Steven Spielberg at all. So I don't understand. Like, most of the podcasts I know are very positive. Some there's one or two that are kind of weirdly competitive.
I was like, no, he's not a competitor because you can just like in the same way that you could go watch Steven Spielberg's Jaws one week and go watch George Lucas's Star Wars next week. Doesn't affect Steven Spielberg at all. So I don't understand. Like, most of the podcasts I know are very positive. Some there's one or two that are kind of weirdly competitive.
And, you know, they have bad reputations and they are getting smoked by the other people. So, yeah, I think if you have something, especially in the world and what we do is like, if I give you information and you make a better podcast to me, then you deserve to win. I don't know what to tell you. It doesn't bother me at all.
And, you know, they have bad reputations and they are getting smoked by the other people. So, yeah, I think if you have something, especially in the world and what we do is like, if I give you information and you make a better podcast to me, then you deserve to win. I don't know what to tell you. It doesn't bother me at all.
I want to win because I want to make the best product possible regardless of what anybody else is doing. So one thing I learned from Tarantino, though, of all these filmmakers, is he's like, it doesn't make any sense to do everything in perfectly chronological order. Think about how he makes his movies. He's like, no one tells stories that way. No one says, hey, Ben, tell me about your life.
I want to win because I want to make the best product possible regardless of what anybody else is doing. So one thing I learned from Tarantino, though, of all these filmmakers, is he's like, it doesn't make any sense to do everything in perfectly chronological order. Think about how he makes his movies. He's like, no one tells stories that way. No one says, hey, Ben, tell me about your life.
You're like, well, I was born on January 1st and then I went to kindergarten. It's like, no, you jump around. You talk about the fact when you met your wife, the time you had your first kid, talk about the relationship you had when maybe your dad taught you how to ride a bike. It's not chronological. And so I don't feel the need to organize and to go through what I want to talk about.
You're like, well, I was born on January 1st and then I went to kindergarten. It's like, no, you jump around. You talk about the fact when you met your wife, the time you had your first kid, talk about the relationship you had when maybe your dad taught you how to ride a bike. It's not chronological. And so I don't feel the need to organize and to go through what I want to talk about.
And another thing is I'm not trying to summarize a book. I'm trying to say, hey, I spent 40 hours reading about this interesting person. Here's the most interesting parts to me. And you're smart. You want to know the whole story. You can pick up the book. I link to it in the show notes. But yeah, that's really all it is. The process is more taste and intuition than anything else. The
And another thing is I'm not trying to summarize a book. I'm trying to say, hey, I spent 40 hours reading about this interesting person. Here's the most interesting parts to me. And you're smart. You want to know the whole story. You can pick up the book. I link to it in the show notes. But yeah, that's really all it is. The process is more taste and intuition than anything else. The
all the episode are, all the end result is like, this was most interesting to me. And the thing that's changed over the last two years is now I spend one to two days in between when I'm done reading to when I sit down to record. And all that is, is cutting. It's like I may have had 50 things that I thought were interesting and you just read and reread and read and reread.
all the episode are, all the end result is like, this was most interesting to me. And the thing that's changed over the last two years is now I spend one to two days in between when I'm done reading to when I sit down to record. And all that is, is cutting. It's like I may have had 50 things that I thought were interesting and you just read and reread and read and reread.
And then you're like, ah, no, no, don't need that. And then just cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. This is an idea I got from Walt Disney. And I don't even know if it was conscious, but he talked about it was so expensive to animate back then that you had to do the edit before you did the drawing. And I was like, that's a really good idea.
And then you're like, ah, no, no, don't need that. And then just cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. This is an idea I got from Walt Disney. And I don't even know if it was conscious, but he talked about it was so expensive to animate back then that you had to do the edit before you did the drawing. And I was like, that's a really good idea.
So I edit, you know, I still edit it after I record too, but most of the edit happens before I record.
So I edit, you know, I still edit it after I record too, but most of the edit happens before I record.
I think it's heavily influenced because Tarantino has always been my favorite filmmaker. And if you look at like, go watch Pulp Fiction. It's like five main scenes. There's huge chunks not missing, but you're, you'll put it together. You're like, you, you, if they're going to listen to founders or how to take over the world, I don't think you have a bunch of idiots listening to you.
I think it's heavily influenced because Tarantino has always been my favorite filmmaker. And if you look at like, go watch Pulp Fiction. It's like five main scenes. There's huge chunks not missing, but you're, you'll put it together. You're like, you, you, if they're going to listen to founders or how to take over the world, I don't think you have a bunch of idiots listening to you.
It's just too, it's like, there's so many other options for people that are like dullards. You know, I'm not making a pod. People always like, I'm not making it for the mass population. I have no interest in, like, I'm trying to make, I'm trying to make the best podcast for the best people in the world. That's literally what I'm doing.
It's just too, it's like, there's so many other options for people that are like dullards. You know, I'm not making a pod. People always like, I'm not making it for the mass population. I have no interest in, like, I'm trying to make, I'm trying to make the best podcast for the best people in the world. That's literally what I'm doing.
And so those kinds of people, it's like, dude, they can read between the lines. They'll fill shit in. They're smart. You don't have to like hold their hand.
And so those kinds of people, it's like, dude, they can read between the lines. They'll fill shit in. They're smart. You don't have to like hold their hand.
Smart enough to get it. People are... They vastly overestimate how much information people can retain, right? And so there's a great example of this in one of the books I read on Steve Jobs, where mostly he knew an ad should have a singular focus. The homepage of Apple would have a singular focus. All their advertising, they would pick one feature and stick on it.
Smart enough to get it. People are... They vastly overestimate how much information people can retain, right? And so there's a great example of this in one of the books I read on Steve Jobs, where mostly he knew an ad should have a singular focus. The homepage of Apple would have a singular focus. All their advertising, they would pick one feature and stick on it.
And every once in a while, he would deviate from that. And he's like, okay, for this ad, I want us to list five reasons. And the guy that was running...
And every once in a while, he would deviate from that. And he's like, okay, for this ad, I want us to list five reasons. And the guy that was running...
he's like one of the best advertising agency founders of course if Steve wanted to use him that would have to be the way it is and he goes Steve let me show you something he rolls up five pieces of paper and he goes and he throws five balls of paper at him and Steve catches none he goes that's a bad ad now he crumples up one piece of paper throws it at Steve Steve catches it he goes that's a good ad they're going to listen to an hour long how to take over the world
he's like one of the best advertising agency founders of course if Steve wanted to use him that would have to be the way it is and he goes Steve let me show you something he rolls up five pieces of paper and he goes and he throws five balls of paper at him and Steve catches none he goes that's a bad ad now he crumples up one piece of paper throws it at Steve Steve catches it he goes that's a good ad they're going to listen to an hour long how to take over the world
or an hour long founders, and they're going to remember one or two things. And this line about like breaking things down into like how to, what do I actually remember? I remember I love aphorisms. I'm obsessed with maxims, right? There's a maxim on my computer screen that I'm looking at right now. It says, do one thing relentlessly. There's no explanation needed.
or an hour long founders, and they're going to remember one or two things. And this line about like breaking things down into like how to, what do I actually remember? I remember I love aphorisms. I'm obsessed with maxims, right? There's a maxim on my computer screen that I'm looking at right now. It says, do one thing relentlessly. There's no explanation needed.
It's just like, reminder, four words, I know exactly what to do now, right? And I can use as a principle to guide my behavior. But even the idea of why this is important came from another aphorism where David Ogilvie says, you can't save souls in an empty church.
It's just like, reminder, four words, I know exactly what to do now, right? And I can use as a principle to guide my behavior. But even the idea of why this is important came from another aphorism where David Ogilvie says, you can't save souls in an empty church.
And so when he was selling advertising for some of the best brands in the world, he's like, you have to make them entertaining and memorable because you can't save souls in an empty church. We can sit there and we can educate for all that we want. You think about all these professors that they're, they're, they're, they're great like history professors, but then they get in a podcast.
And so when he was selling advertising for some of the best brands in the world, he's like, you have to make them entertaining and memorable because you can't save souls in an empty church. We can sit there and we can educate for all that we want. You think about all these professors that they're, they're, they're, they're great like history professors, but then they get in a podcast.
Like, why is nobody listening to my podcast? And I, and I've talked to some of these people and I listened to it. I was like, cause your podcast is fucking boring. You didn't understand that they're sitting in your class, not because they're not there to learn necessarily, right? They're like, you have like a captive audience. There's all these weird reasons people go to college.
Like, why is nobody listening to my podcast? And I, and I've talked to some of these people and I listened to it. I was like, cause your podcast is fucking boring. You didn't understand that they're sitting in your class, not because they're not there to learn necessarily, right? They're like, you have like a captive audience. There's all these weird reasons people go to college.
It's the degree, it's the insurance, their parents made them, whatever the case is. Podcast is fully opt-in. You can't save souls in an empty church. Ogilvy is just like, they have to, it has to be entertaining. It has to be fun. It doesn't mean dumbed down. You don't have to dumb it down. You just make it interesting. Yeah.
It's the degree, it's the insurance, their parents made them, whatever the case is. Podcast is fully opt-in. You can't save souls in an empty church. Ogilvy is just like, they have to, it has to be entertaining. It has to be fun. It doesn't mean dumbed down. You don't have to dumb it down. You just make it interesting. Yeah.
Our business is different. Like, let's say you're... some of the most valuable companies in the world outside of like energy, right? It's like B2B SaaS. Like if you look at like who wants to advertise on founders or invest like the best, like these giant companies because like some of the most valuable companies in the world, you know, they're selling to businesses.
Our business is different. Like, let's say you're... some of the most valuable companies in the world outside of like energy, right? It's like B2B SaaS. Like if you look at like who wants to advertise on founders or invest like the best, like these giant companies because like some of the most valuable companies in the world, you know, they're selling to businesses.
Facebook sells to businesses, Google, Microsoft, you know, Salesforce, all of them, Oracle. So, If me and you were competing, you need a database provider, and Oracle loses that contract to somebody else, that is a zero-sum game. You're not going to have two database providers. You're not going to have two whatever the case. In many cases, you're going to pick one.
Facebook sells to businesses, Google, Microsoft, you know, Salesforce, all of them, Oracle. So, If me and you were competing, you need a database provider, and Oracle loses that contract to somebody else, that is a zero-sum game. You're not going to have two database providers. You're not going to have two whatever the case. In many cases, you're going to pick one.
So in that case, you should be secretive if you have an edge. That is a zero-sum game. For us, it isn't like that. Very few people listen to one podcast. And I actually, I think I had like, just because I've heard this anecdotally, we were at one of these events where these like old rich guys would come up to me and they literally like, I don't listen to, I didn't even know what a podcast was.
So in that case, you should be secretive if you have an edge. That is a zero-sum game. For us, it isn't like that. Very few people listen to one podcast. And I actually, I think I had like, just because I've heard this anecdotally, we were at one of these events where these like old rich guys would come up to me and they literally like, I don't listen to, I didn't even know what a podcast was.
I only listen to yours, but there's, that's like the tiniest percentage of like podcast listeners. Most of them listen to, you know, a bunch of them. So it doesn't take anything away from me. Now, if you're like a Rockefeller and you want to acquire every single one of your competitors and one of your smaller competitors gets that acquisition that you don't, then That's a bad thing for you.
I only listen to yours, but there's, that's like the tiniest percentage of like podcast listeners. Most of them listen to, you know, a bunch of them. So it doesn't take anything away from me. Now, if you're like a Rockefeller and you want to acquire every single one of your competitors and one of your smaller competitors gets that acquisition that you don't, then That's a bad thing for you.
Like, you can't let that happen. And so that's why, you know, he shrouds himself in secrecy. He had all these... You've read all the books that I've read. Like, I love the idea. It's like... fuck these Rockefeller guys. I'm not selling to Standard Oil. I'm going to sell to you because we have to stand up against them, not realizing that he secretly owned that company too. The best.
Like, you can't let that happen. And so that's why, you know, he shrouds himself in secrecy. He had all these... You've read all the books that I've read. Like, I love the idea. It's like... fuck these Rockefeller guys. I'm not selling to Standard Oil. I'm going to sell to you because we have to stand up against them, not realizing that he secretly owned that company too. The best.
The greatest entrepreneur of all time is obviously Rockefeller. I don't even know why people debate that. I can't think of anything... I can't make somebody listen to a podcast where it's like, here's the features of my product. You know, it's almost like picking a podcast, like picking a friend.
The greatest entrepreneur of all time is obviously Rockefeller. I don't even know why people debate that. I can't think of anything... I can't make somebody listen to a podcast where it's like, here's the features of my product. You know, it's almost like picking a podcast, like picking a friend.
Like if I asked who your best friend is, you're going to say like, what do you like about your best friend, Ben? And you're going to like, oh, he's smart and he's intelligent and he's thoughtful. And I'm like, yeah, but this guy's smart, intelligent, thoughtful. Why isn't he your best friend? It's, it's a, it's more of like a messy, like human, like emotional relationship.
Like if I asked who your best friend is, you're going to say like, what do you like about your best friend, Ben? And you're going to like, oh, he's smart and he's intelligent and he's thoughtful. And I'm like, yeah, but this guy's smart, intelligent, thoughtful. Why isn't he your best friend? It's, it's a, it's more of like a messy, like human, like emotional relationship.
That's not when, like, you know, I like this bottle of water. I don't have a relationship. I drink Mountain Valley nonstop. Like, I don't know who, like, just like, this is the brand of water that I like. So this is the one that has won my loyalty. Podcast is not the same thing as that. I'm trying to think of, is there a secret I don't tell any other podcasters?
That's not when, like, you know, I like this bottle of water. I don't have a relationship. I drink Mountain Valley nonstop. Like, I don't know who, like, just like, this is the brand of water that I like. So this is the one that has won my loyalty. Podcast is not the same thing as that. I'm trying to think of, is there a secret I don't tell any other podcasters?
Most of it is like, they just won't do it anyways. Like, you know, it's like, everybody wants to compete with Todd Grace. Well, are you going to do the same thing for 30 years? Right there, you knocked out 99.9999999% of humans. They just cannot do that. I went on Greg Eisenberg's podcast recently. He says, how do I do what you do? I'm like, what do you mean?
Most of it is like, they just won't do it anyways. Like, you know, it's like, everybody wants to compete with Todd Grace. Well, are you going to do the same thing for 30 years? Right there, you knocked out 99.9999999% of humans. They just cannot do that. I went on Greg Eisenberg's podcast recently. He says, how do I do what you do? I'm like, what do you mean?
He's just like, you have this recall of everything you learn and there's no script in front of you. You're just coming off the top of your head. I was like, I do one thing. You do 10.
He's just like, you have this recall of everything you learn and there's no script in front of you. You're just coming off the top of your head. I was like, I do one thing. You do 10.
not going to do that it's like people cannot there's something that is you know in my personality where i like i like simplicity i like doing the same thing all the time uh that you know is i didn't even understand it's very rare uh for humans so uh no i could give away all my secrets and one people still won't do it in podcasting and two i i do think like
not going to do that it's like people cannot there's something that is you know in my personality where i like i like simplicity i like doing the same thing all the time uh that you know is i didn't even understand it's very rare uh for humans so uh no i could give away all my secrets and one people still won't do it in podcasting and two i i do think like
power laws rule everything around us podcasting is obviously the same thing there's like four 350,000 active podcasts right now meaning that they've updated at least one episode in the last month and you know probably 98 of them are bad 98 of them are bad uh like this is happening have you been paying attention what's happening with tbp tbpm with john coogan jordy hayes yeah uh-huh so um
power laws rule everything around us podcasting is obviously the same thing there's like four 350,000 active podcasts right now meaning that they've updated at least one episode in the last month and you know probably 98 of them are bad 98 of them are bad uh like this is happening have you been paying attention what's happening with tbp tbpm with john coogan jordy hayes yeah uh-huh so um
I've been talking to John about podcasting for a few years. I've been trying to help him as much as possible. I thought he was a very talented person. He just had the wrong format. I tried to get him on Colossus. I've done a bunch of stuff. And so I've been talking to him majority every step of the way throughout this whole thing. And now it's funny because it's absolutely ripping and blowing up.
I've been talking to John about podcasting for a few years. I've been trying to help him as much as possible. I thought he was a very talented person. He just had the wrong format. I tried to get him on Colossus. I've done a bunch of stuff. And so I've been talking to him majority every step of the way throughout this whole thing. And now it's funny because it's absolutely ripping and blowing up.
And everybody's trying to analyze, like, why is it? And they make these lists. And it's just like...
And everybody's trying to analyze, like, why is it? And they make these lists. And it's just like...
there's one one guy made a list of like one through five reasons tvpn is working and i was one two five is they're talented everything that you just said is derivative of the fact that they're actually talented and so like i talked to a bunch of other podcasters and they're like hey can you help me my podcast is not growing and i listen to it i'm like let me ask you a question they're like what i go when you're at dinner are people captivated by your presence
there's one one guy made a list of like one through five reasons tvpn is working and i was one two five is they're talented everything that you just said is derivative of the fact that they're actually talented and so like i talked to a bunch of other podcasters and they're like hey can you help me my podcast is not growing and i listen to it i'm like let me ask you a question they're like what i go when you're at dinner are people captivated by your presence
Like, are they? Are they like, do they find you genuinely interesting? Right? And they're like, not necessarily. And I'm like, yeah. I was like, dude, podcast is straight energy transmission. It's like, one, you either need to be super charismatic, right? Like Joe Rogan, whether you like him or not, like he's a gift. He built an empire, a giant empire with his mouth. I don't care.
Like, are they? Are they like, do they find you genuinely interesting? Right? And they're like, not necessarily. And I'm like, yeah. I was like, dude, podcast is straight energy transmission. It's like, one, you either need to be super charismatic, right? Like Joe Rogan, whether you like him or not, like he's a gift. He built an empire, a giant empire with his mouth. I don't care.
It doesn't matter to me if you like him or not. This is like unbelievably great conversationalist, undoubtedly, right? The idea you can have three, the people see that, they're like, I could do that. No, you can't. It's so difficult. Right. So you either have, like, your great conversations, you have this, like, you know, people find you interesting, or you're just super obsessed.
It doesn't matter to me if you like him or not. This is like unbelievably great conversationalist, undoubtedly, right? The idea you can have three, the people see that, they're like, I could do that. No, you can't. It's so difficult. Right. So you either have, like, your great conversations, you have this, like, you know, people find you interesting, or you're just super obsessed.
The most interesting people in the world are the most interested. This is where, like, me and you could play. Where it's just like, I will just go out and collect more information about this topic, this very focused topic, than anybody else in the world.
The most interesting people in the world are the most interested. This is where, like, me and you could play. Where it's just like, I will just go out and collect more information about this topic, this very focused topic, than anybody else in the world.
Yeah, 100%. And then they're also smart enough. They think like, I told you, the biggest problem with most podcasters, they think like podcasters and not entrepreneurs. You're an entrepreneur. It's like, this is your product. And they, Jordy texted me about this the other day.
Yeah, 100%. And then they're also smart enough. They think like, I told you, the biggest problem with most podcasters, they think like podcasters and not entrepreneurs. You're an entrepreneur. It's like, this is your product. And they, Jordy texted me about this the other day.
Me and him and John were talking about this where he's just like, there's already people trying to copy them, which they don't understand. You know, people try to copy like what we do. It's like, oh, I'm going to do a podcast about books. You think it's about the books. It's just like, you're missing the point.
Me and him and John were talking about this where he's just like, there's already people trying to copy them, which they don't understand. You know, people try to copy like what we do. It's like, oh, I'm going to do a podcast about books. You think it's about the books. It's just like, you're missing the point.
And Jordy's like, the good news is if you want to compete with us, you have to quit your job. Like literally, Jordy called me at like 5.30 in the morning, his time. They're obviously in California and I'm in Miami. I'm like, 8.30, it's ringing. I'm like, what the hell are you calling me at 5.30 in the morning? He's like, I'm driving to the office. Like they take their shit very seriously.
And Jordy's like, the good news is if you want to compete with us, you have to quit your job. Like literally, Jordy called me at like 5.30 in the morning, his time. They're obviously in California and I'm in Miami. I'm like, 8.30, it's ringing. I'm like, what the hell are you calling me at 5.30 in the morning? He's like, I'm driving to the office. Like they take their shit very seriously.
They are streaming 15 hours a week, three hours a day, five days a week. To do that, you literally have to quit your job. So, yeah, those guys are going to, you know, they're already blowing up. They're just going to continue. It's going to be the Sherman march to the sea. And it's obvious. Like, I was the one that actually sold their presenting sponsor was Ramp.
They are streaming 15 hours a week, three hours a day, five days a week. To do that, you literally have to quit your job. So, yeah, those guys are going to, you know, they're already blowing up. They're just going to continue. It's going to be the Sherman march to the sea. And it's obvious. Like, I was the one that actually sold their presenting sponsor was Ramp.
And obviously, you know that I do, like, I really help out on essentially Ramp's podcast advertising. And the deal was, like, they had no really small audience this time, almost none. And the deal was, like, substantial. And I was like, and Ramp's really cool. I'm really close to the founders. Yeah. And so most of the time they're just like, pull the trigger. And there's a little like debate.
And obviously, you know that I do, like, I really help out on essentially Ramp's podcast advertising. And the deal was, like, they had no really small audience this time, almost none. And the deal was, like, substantial. And I was like, and Ramp's really cool. I'm really close to the founders. Yeah. And so most of the time they're just like, pull the trigger. And there's a little like debate.
I'm like, I'm telling you, no fucking debate. This thing's going to, it's going to take off. I promise you. And Eric, the CEO and founder called me the other day. He's like, I can't believe this. Because like what looked like an expensive deal will now look like a great deal because of the growth and the fact that every single clip has the ramp up.
I'm like, I'm telling you, no fucking debate. This thing's going to, it's going to take off. I promise you. And Eric, the CEO and founder called me the other day. He's like, I can't believe this. Because like what looked like an expensive deal will now look like a great deal because of the growth and the fact that every single clip has the ramp up.
yellow logo in the upper right hand corner they're doing ramp ads every like it's just it's it's blown up i was like i told you like it was obvious most podcasters aren't they don't take it seriously most of them are not talented and like these guys have a they're they're they're gifted in both of those domains and they also think like entrepreneurs so they think about the marketing and the branding of their podcast they think about how to get in front of most people like it's just it's perfect i'm so happy what's been happening with them
yellow logo in the upper right hand corner they're doing ramp ads every like it's just it's it's blown up i was like i told you like it was obvious most podcasters aren't they don't take it seriously most of them are not talented and like these guys have a they're they're they're gifted in both of those domains and they also think like entrepreneurs so they think about the marketing and the branding of their podcast they think about how to get in front of most people like it's just it's perfect i'm so happy what's been happening with them
No. I love Naval Ravikant, the book that our mutual friend, I don't know, are you friends with Eric? You met Eric Jorgensen. He's another tall guy with a deep voice like you. So yeah, the Almanac of Naval is like one of the best books I've ever read as far as like changed the way I approach my career. And there's something he says in there.
No. I love Naval Ravikant, the book that our mutual friend, I don't know, are you friends with Eric? You met Eric Jorgensen. He's another tall guy with a deep voice like you. So yeah, the Almanac of Naval is like one of the best books I've ever read as far as like changed the way I approach my career. And there's something he says in there.
He's like, you know, there's 8 billion people on the planet. I think there should be 8 billion founders. That's probably the only thing I disagree with him on is like, there's just no way that'll ever happen. Absolutely not. No, I think there's a deep desire for,
He's like, you know, there's 8 billion people on the planet. I think there should be 8 billion founders. That's probably the only thing I disagree with him on is like, there's just no way that'll ever happen. Absolutely not. No, I think there's a deep desire for,
Do you meet people like Noah? No, those people don't last. So like you mentioned Novak Djokovic, who's like, I really love his crazy philosophy and everything else. And there's a great article that he did in the Financial Times in 2018 that I found from this guy named Graham Duncan. And he says, you know, like they're, they ask him like, how much longer can you do this? Like at this level.
Do you meet people like Noah? No, those people don't last. So like you mentioned Novak Djokovic, who's like, I really love his crazy philosophy and everything else. And there's a great article that he did in the Financial Times in 2018 that I found from this guy named Graham Duncan. And he says, you know, like they're, they ask him like, how much longer can you do this? Like at this level.
And at the time you only had like, I don't know, four or six majors. Now he has the most in the world. And he's like, I can carry on at this level for a very long time. Cause I like hitting the ball. And the follow-ups are, what do you mean? It's like, well, there's some tennis players that are playing. They're not playing for the right reasons. They don't actually just like hitting the ball.
And at the time you only had like, I don't know, four or six majors. Now he has the most in the world. And he's like, I can carry on at this level for a very long time. Cause I like hitting the ball. And the follow-ups are, what do you mean? It's like, well, there's some tennis players that are playing. They're not playing for the right reasons. They don't actually just like hitting the ball.
And he's like, he's like, can you tell? He's like, yeah, I can tell. I don't judge, but like, you can definitely tell their, their motivation is, is wrong. And so I think that same thing with founders. To me, it doesn't matter other people's motivations. I try to mind my own business. Rule number two in the center of family is mind your own business. That's why I teach my kids.
And he's like, he's like, can you tell? He's like, yeah, I can tell. I don't judge, but like, you can definitely tell their, their motivation is, is wrong. And so I think that same thing with founders. To me, it doesn't matter other people's motivations. I try to mind my own business. Rule number two in the center of family is mind your own business. That's why I teach my kids.
I think a lot of people get in it because they want to make money. And some people, if they just care about getting rich, you can do it. But the people that last the longest amount of time, the people that you've read a bunch of these biographies of the founders, they didn't stop when they were independently wealthy. They just like the act. The analogy I have there is they like hitting the ball.
I think a lot of people get in it because they want to make money. And some people, if they just care about getting rich, you can do it. But the people that last the longest amount of time, the people that you've read a bunch of these biographies of the founders, they didn't stop when they were independently wealthy. They just like the act. The analogy I have there is they like hitting the ball.
And if you like hitting the ball, like the example I would use, I remember where I was specifically. I was with my wife at this place called Harry's Pizzeria next to the design district. I don't think it's there anymore. And I had this like epiphany, right? And this is the problem of being obsessed with what you're doing. It's like you're supposed to be on a date and I'm thinking about founders.
And if you like hitting the ball, like the example I would use, I remember where I was specifically. I was with my wife at this place called Harry's Pizzeria next to the design district. I don't think it's there anymore. And I had this like epiphany, right? And this is the problem of being obsessed with what you're doing. It's like you're supposed to be on a date and I'm thinking about founders.
And... And I remember realizing, I was like, oh wait, I'm wrong. People used to say like, if you love what you do, you do it for free. And I was like, wait, no, no, there's a different level. If you love what you do, they couldn't pay you to stop. And when I realized like how much money would you have had to give Steve Jobs to not work at Apple?
And... And I remember realizing, I was like, oh wait, I'm wrong. People used to say like, if you love what you do, you do it for free. And I was like, wait, no, no, there's a different level. If you love what you do, they couldn't pay you to stop. And when I realized like how much money would you have had to give Steve Jobs to not work at Apple?
The answer is there is no, it was not, you couldn't pay him. I'll give you $2 trillion, Steve, but you can't ever work on an Apple. You can't build a product in. He'd say, no, he's not doing, that's not what he's doing. He liked hitting the ball. He liked making great products, the best part, some of the best products in the world. And he did that until he died.
The answer is there is no, it was not, you couldn't pay him. I'll give you $2 trillion, Steve, but you can't ever work on an Apple. You can't build a product in. He'd say, no, he's not doing, that's not what he's doing. He liked hitting the ball. He liked making great products, the best part, some of the best products in the world. And he did that until he died.
Um, so yeah, I think that's, uh, yeah, there's all kinds of people. Some people just don't give a shit. They're like, Hey, this is a good way of fast way of the wealth creation. I'm going to start a scale sell. And then they peace out. Um, but I think the greatest founders, the people that are like, they're doing it for other reasons.
Um, so yeah, I think that's, uh, yeah, there's all kinds of people. Some people just don't give a shit. They're like, Hey, this is a good way of fast way of the wealth creation. I'm going to start a scale sell. And then they peace out. Um, but I think the greatest founders, the people that are like, they're doing it for other reasons.
Maintain situational awareness. Too many people are out in public, not paying attention to their surroundings. Just just pay attention to what's going on. So like my daughter does really good situational awareness.
Maintain situational awareness. Too many people are out in public, not paying attention to their surroundings. Just just pay attention to what's going on. So like my daughter does really good situational awareness.
We were just in New York and like she was walking in front of me and you could tell it's like, hey, that guy over there with no shirt on yelling at himself and there's snow on the ground.
We were just in New York and like she was walking in front of me and you could tell it's like, hey, that guy over there with no shirt on yelling at himself and there's snow on the ground.
go to the right like she avoided them she just she understands what's going on you hear these crazy stories where people get pushed in front of the subway and stuff my kids wouldn't that would never happen my kids they know stand back to the wall don't let anybody behind you maintain situation awareness we do this all the time like i've been like this forever like if you're in a restaurant practical rules but if you stay in a restaurant i'm always facing the door like no you just know what's good like you have to know what's going on around you um and so yeah i teach my kids this
go to the right like she avoided them she just she understands what's going on you hear these crazy stories where people get pushed in front of the subway and stuff my kids wouldn't that would never happen my kids they know stand back to the wall don't let anybody behind you maintain situation awareness we do this all the time like i've been like this forever like if you're in a restaurant practical rules but if you stay in a restaurant i'm always facing the door like no you just know what's good like you have to know what's going on around you um and so yeah i teach my kids this
I think they're all... So if you think about the definition of an entrepreneur, it's like somebody who has ideas and does them. I think like they're... It's not that you have to like start a company. It's like the same personality type. Like if, you know, the market economy is what? You're talking about 200 years old, 250 years old. Like people are always like, oh, do this episode.
I think they're all... So if you think about the definition of an entrepreneur, it's like somebody who has ideas and does them. I think like they're... It's not that you have to like start a company. It's like the same personality type. Like if, you know, the market economy is what? You're talking about 200 years old, 250 years old. Like people are always like, oh, do this episode.
This guy lived like 500 years ago. It's like, there's really no like market economy. So it's kind of hard to like draw lessons from there. But like if like Rockefeller was alive today, right? Who did Rockefeller most admire?
This guy lived like 500 years ago. It's like, there's really no like market economy. So it's kind of hard to like draw lessons from there. But like if like Rockefeller was alive today, right? Who did Rockefeller most admire?
napoleon and that's like rockefeller didn't talk about anybody he would not shut up about napoleon that meant if rockefeller was born you know 200 years earlier highly likely he's like taking over country how to take over the world style than he is like building the the world's most valuable you know oil company um so yeah i've done i don't even know like you know uh let's see i've done a
napoleon and that's like rockefeller didn't talk about anybody he would not shut up about napoleon that meant if rockefeller was born you know 200 years earlier highly likely he's like taking over country how to take over the world style than he is like building the the world's most valuable you know oil company um so yeah i've done i don't even know like you know uh let's see i've done a
A bunch of athletes.
A bunch of athletes.
Yeah, I would say more of an inventor, if you really think about it. Think about Thomas Edison. I've done a bunch of episodes with Thomas Edison. He invented four or five things. He didn't work on one thing his whole life. but he was always inventing. So I think of that as like, Buffett is the greatest financial genius in history, but he didn't work on one company.
Yeah, I would say more of an inventor, if you really think about it. Think about Thomas Edison. I've done a bunch of episodes with Thomas Edison. He invented four or five things. He didn't work on one thing his whole life. but he was always inventing. So I think of that as like, Buffett is the greatest financial genius in history, but he didn't work on one company.
He had like, everything's in Berkshire, but inside of Berkshire, you have all these other things. I feel like a Da Vinci's like that, an Edison's like that. It's like the act of what they're doing, which in Buffett's case is like turning a pile of money into a bigger pile of money, right? Da Vinci's case, he's like inventing all the things, drawing, making some of the greatest paintings.
He had like, everything's in Berkshire, but inside of Berkshire, you have all these other things. I feel like a Da Vinci's like that, an Edison's like that. It's like the act of what they're doing, which in Buffett's case is like turning a pile of money into a bigger pile of money, right? Da Vinci's case, he's like inventing all the things, drawing, making some of the greatest paintings.
Edison is like, Edison was way more commercial in the sense that he says a sale is proof of utility. He doesn't want to invent anything that won't sell. His career is rather consistent. He was just working on different things, but the theme that runs throughout all this is that he was inventing the whole time.
Edison is like, Edison was way more commercial in the sense that he says a sale is proof of utility. He doesn't want to invent anything that won't sell. His career is rather consistent. He was just working on different things, but the theme that runs throughout all this is that he was inventing the whole time.
Do I... I'm trying to think if I've read anybody about that's normal or well-adjusted. I don't think, like... I don't think there's... One thing that's related to this is I don't think being a psycho or an asshole is a prerequisite for success. Rockefeller is the perfect example of this. Never said an unkind word to people that worked for him for decades.
Do I... I'm trying to think if I've read anybody about that's normal or well-adjusted. I don't think, like... I don't think there's... One thing that's related to this is I don't think being a psycho or an asshole is a prerequisite for success. Rockefeller is the perfect example of this. Never said an unkind word to people that worked for him for decades.
One time they ever saw him lose his temper. Very polite. No, I don't think... I wouldn't call it any, I don't feel, I mean, you think I'm a well-adjusted person? I don't think I am. Like, you know me pretty well. I think you're a well-adjusted person.
One time they ever saw him lose his temper. Very polite. No, I don't think... I wouldn't call it any, I don't feel, I mean, you think I'm a well-adjusted person? I don't think I am. Like, you know me pretty well. I think you're a well-adjusted person.
Yeah, so, yeah, I just, yeah. So, I mean, I think everybody you read about and everybody I read about is like, they're just outliers. They're like completely, they deviate so far from the norm. They can, they look like a different species to me than like just some random person you'd bump into, you know? Yeah. I think that you can have massive success with consistency over intensity.
Yeah, so, yeah, I just, yeah. So, I mean, I think everybody you read about and everybody I read about is like, they're just outliers. They're like completely, they deviate so far from the norm. They can, they look like a different species to me than like just some random person you'd bump into, you know? Yeah. I think that you can have massive success with consistency over intensity.
If you can consistently do the same, build your business and let it compound for four or five decades, you don't have to burn everything. I think you could have a great marriage, you could have good friends, you could take care of your health and still be wildly successful too. Now, a lot of them don't do that because what you just described with Edison, they are completely addicted.
If you can consistently do the same, build your business and let it compound for four or five decades, you don't have to burn everything. I think you could have a great marriage, you could have good friends, you could take care of your health and still be wildly successful too. Now, a lot of them don't do that because what you just described with Edison, they are completely addicted.
This is one thing I'm worried about in the sense that I like... working on my podcast and building my business and getting better at what I'm doing. And there's very few other things that I like to do more than that. And if I don't watch myself, you know, I can mess up all different other areas of my life where like, I know I want to have like,
This is one thing I'm worried about in the sense that I like... working on my podcast and building my business and getting better at what I'm doing. And there's very few other things that I like to do more than that. And if I don't watch myself, you know, I can mess up all different other areas of my life where like, I know I want to have like,
a lot of memories when I get older and good relationships and friendships and everything else. So like, I'm very, you know, aware of that and kind of try to put guardrails on myself.
a lot of memories when I get older and good relationships and friendships and everything else. So like, I'm very, you know, aware of that and kind of try to put guardrails on myself.
Uh, out in public, almost never. Um, if I'm at like, it depends on where I'm at. Like if I'm at like Capitol camp or if I'm at like, I'm, If I'm in New York, very rare, once or twice on just random street, right? Once or twice per day? No, like I was just up in New York. I probably got recognized once or twice in like five days or something like that.
Uh, out in public, almost never. Um, if I'm at like, it depends on where I'm at. Like if I'm at like Capitol camp or if I'm at like, I'm, If I'm in New York, very rare, once or twice on just random street, right? Once or twice per day? No, like I was just up in New York. I probably got recognized once or twice in like five days or something like that.
And again, most of them are just like, love what you do, shake hands. And they're literally like, they're cool. Now I'm doing way more videos, so that may change. But like, yeah, my goal is to never be like, I'm first of all, very introverted in general. I love one of my favorite things to do is like be able to walk around the city and like think.
And again, most of them are just like, love what you do, shake hands. And they're literally like, they're cool. Now I'm doing way more videos, so that may change. But like, yeah, my goal is to never be like, I'm first of all, very introverted in general. I love one of my favorite things to do is like be able to walk around the city and like think.
So I would never want to like get so my face so well known that I can't do that anymore. That'd be very bad for my life, I think. But no, I would say I don't ever think of myself as being famous at all. And I think it's unhealthy if you start thinking about these things. And the only time I ever notice that people react to me differently is if I'm at a gathering of entrepreneurs and investors.
So I would never want to like get so my face so well known that I can't do that anymore. That'd be very bad for my life, I think. But no, I would say I don't ever think of myself as being famous at all. And I think it's unhealthy if you start thinking about these things. And the only time I ever notice that people react to me differently is if I'm at a gathering of entrepreneurs and investors.
It's the only time.
It's the only time.
Have people tried? No. Like, smaller publications. It was the New York Times. It was the Wall Street Journal. Like, literally, you couldn't get a better, if you're a business podcaster, it couldn't be a better write-up than the one that Ben and David, they did for, in the Wall Street Journal. It's excellent. No, there's been, like, technology publications, stuff like that. Yeah.
Have people tried? No. Like, smaller publications. It was the New York Times. It was the Wall Street Journal. Like, literally, you couldn't get a better, if you're a business podcaster, it couldn't be a better write-up than the one that Ben and David, they did for, in the Wall Street Journal. It's excellent. No, there's been, like, technology publications, stuff like that. Yeah.
But again, my thing is like super more, it's like more narrowly focused. I mean, it's called founders. Like, yeah. Even if you think like, like there's a ton of business owners in, in, you know, America and in the world, but like, it's not, it's, it's never going to be like wide. This is not like Mr. Beast widespread. Like, right.
But again, my thing is like super more, it's like more narrowly focused. I mean, it's called founders. Like, yeah. Even if you think like, like there's a ton of business owners in, in, you know, America and in the world, but like, it's not, it's, it's never going to be like wide. This is not like Mr. Beast widespread. Like, right.
Yeah. But again, I don't think about that. This is the best thing is the fact that like I, all I did was for eight years, I trapped myself in a room and read and followed my own national interest. And then I, you know, expose that to the world, but I don't, Like, I feel the same.
Yeah. But again, I don't think about that. This is the best thing is the fact that like I, all I did was for eight years, I trapped myself in a room and read and followed my own national interest. And then I, you know, expose that to the world, but I don't, Like, I feel the same.
So a good friend of mine actually pulled me aside the other day because what has been happening recently is there's some people that, like, I've heard really grotesque. One of them went viral. Like, grotesque stories about how they treated other people. Like, that dude, like, I'm reading that story. I'm like, that guy's a... that guy's a dick. Like, this is crazy.
So a good friend of mine actually pulled me aside the other day because what has been happening recently is there's some people that, like, I've heard really grotesque. One of them went viral. Like, grotesque stories about how they treated other people. Like, that dude, like, I'm reading that story. I'm like, that guy's a... that guy's a dick. Like, this is crazy.
And then I found out who the person is. I'm like, that guy is so nice to me. He's like, not even nice, but like sweet as can be. I was like shocked. I was like, he's like nothing. And this kept happening. And one of my smartest friends, he pulled me aside. He's like, I don't think you understand. He goes, what? He goes, everybody's going to be nice to you. And I was like, why?
And then I found out who the person is. I'm like, that guy is so nice to me. He's like, not even nice, but like sweet as can be. I was like shocked. I was like, he's like nothing. And this kept happening. And one of my smartest friends, he pulled me aside. He's like, I don't think you understand. He goes, what? He goes, everybody's going to be nice to you. And I was like, why?
And he said, it's very similar stuff that you said. And I was like, I don't feel that way. Like I never, ever think about anything. I don't think this is a negative side. There's a bad side to focus. So I think I have the one of my assets, like extreme levels of focus. But I also kind of like don't think about other people and not in like a mean way. I don't think I've ever been mean to you.
And he said, it's very similar stuff that you said. And I was like, I don't feel that way. Like I never, ever think about anything. I don't think this is a negative side. There's a bad side to focus. So I think I have the one of my assets, like extreme levels of focus. But I also kind of like don't think about other people and not in like a mean way. I don't think I've ever been mean to you.
Like we talk all the time, whatever Keith says. But literally, I don't think of the external world. I just like burrow into my own world. I love this maximum. It says mute the world and then build your own. That's what I'm trying to do. Like, uh, I'm going to go on TBPN later on and they want to talk about, uh, Nvidia or Nvidia. And I was like, I don't know anything about them.
Like we talk all the time, whatever Keith says. But literally, I don't think of the external world. I just like burrow into my own world. I love this maximum. It says mute the world and then build your own. That's what I'm trying to do. Like, uh, I'm going to go on TBPN later on and they want to talk about, uh, Nvidia or Nvidia. And I was like, I don't know anything about them.
They're like, you did a podcast on it. I go, no, no, I did a podcast on the founder. Like, I don't know any, like, I don't listen to news or press reports. I can talk about the founder all day long and he like how he was raised and how he thinks about his company and everything else. But like, I don't know anything that's going on in the world.
They're like, you did a podcast on it. I go, no, no, I did a podcast on the founder. Like, I don't know any, like, I don't listen to news or press reports. I can talk about the founder all day long and he like how he was raised and how he thinks about his company and everything else. But like, I don't know anything that's going on in the world.
I just assume if there's a war or there's a pandemic, that shit will come to me, right? But other than that, I don't know. It's shocking. I remember going on vacation with a friend of mine, and he's like, watch this video. And they mentioned this guy in this video. It was a clip from Lex Freeman. I go, who's that? And he looked at me. He's just like, I forgot who it was. It was like...
I just assume if there's a war or there's a pandemic, that shit will come to me, right? But other than that, I don't know. It's shocking. I remember going on vacation with a friend of mine, and he's like, watch this video. And they mentioned this guy in this video. It was a clip from Lex Freeman. I go, who's that? And he looked at me. He's just like, I forgot who it was. It was like...
somebody high up in like the Russian government. I was like, I don't know. I've never heard that name before. I don't know who this is. And it's like, everybody's talking about this guy. I was like, I don't know. So again, I, I, like, I don't ever think about it. I think it's unhealthy to think about it.
somebody high up in like the Russian government. I was like, I don't know. I've never heard that name before. I don't know who this is. And it's like, everybody's talking about this guy. I was like, I don't know. So again, I, I, like, I don't ever think about it. I think it's unhealthy to think about it.
I think I should just, you should just literally try to focus on making a product that makes somebody else's life better and just do that for as long as possible.
I think I should just, you should just literally try to focus on making a product that makes somebody else's life better and just do that for as long as possible.
No, no.
No, no.
once I pass something, I don't think about it. Like I, so it's funny, like this will happen. Like, uh, Somebody will bring up something and it'll randomly make me think of a memory from, I don't know, years ago. And I'll tell a story. Or I'll be like, oh, that's kind of like this thing that happened in the past.
once I pass something, I don't think about it. Like I, so it's funny, like this will happen. Like, uh, Somebody will bring up something and it'll randomly make me think of a memory from, I don't know, years ago. And I'll tell a story. Or I'll be like, oh, that's kind of like this thing that happened in the past.
And my wife, who's known me for, I don't know, 15 or 18 years or something, she's like, I never heard that before. I was like, I don't like thinking about... I study history. I don't like thinking about my own history. I don't like thinking about the past. Once something ends, I just keep moving on. I don't think about it. Yeah, so I don't have nostalgia. I actually went to a basketball game
And my wife, who's known me for, I don't know, 15 or 18 years or something, she's like, I never heard that before. I was like, I don't like thinking about... I study history. I don't like thinking about my own history. I don't like thinking about the past. Once something ends, I just keep moving on. I don't think about it. Yeah, so I don't have nostalgia. I actually went to a basketball game
over Christmas and I was like all they do is jack up threes now like I don't like this game I don't miss anything no man I just like my mission I like my mission like that's really it my mission my friends my family like there's nothing else in life other than that your health it's really interesting to me I did an episode recently on Donald Trump and Bill O'Reilly said about him he's fundamentally not an introspective person
over Christmas and I was like all they do is jack up threes now like I don't like this game I don't miss anything no man I just like my mission I like my mission like that's really it my mission my friends my family like there's nothing else in life other than that your health it's really interesting to me I did an episode recently on Donald Trump and Bill O'Reilly said about him he's fundamentally not an introspective person
You know, this is, this is the weird, like I don't have many controversial takes and I would say like, I like our corner of the internet because like we're just history nerds and we read books and like, I don't think I'm controversial at all. You know, I'm not trying to be intentionally provocative.
You know, this is, this is the weird, like I don't have many controversial takes and I would say like, I like our corner of the internet because like we're just history nerds and we read books and like, I don't think I'm controversial at all. You know, I'm not trying to be intentionally provocative.
I think like, I know you can get a lot of attention online like that, but it's like the shittiest attention. It's like, my entire life is organized to keep me away from like large groups of people. This is like, you're just absolutely looking at what I'm doing. It's like, I don't, my friend, we were just in New York. He's like, let's go on the subway. He's like, absolutely not.
I think like, I know you can get a lot of attention online like that, but it's like the shittiest attention. It's like, my entire life is organized to keep me away from like large groups of people. This is like, you're just absolutely looking at what I'm doing. It's like, I don't, my friend, we were just in New York. He's like, let's go on the subway. He's like, absolutely not.
And this is like, he's like, the car is an hour long. I don't, I don't care. Like I was raised around such bad people inside of my family and other people around us. Like I don't, I've seen enough of that. I I'm working. Everything I do is to get me away and to be able to control who, how I spend my time, who has access to me. Nothing gets better in my life.
And this is like, he's like, the car is an hour long. I don't, I don't care. Like I was raised around such bad people inside of my family and other people around us. Like I don't, I've seen enough of that. I I'm working. Everything I do is to get me away and to be able to control who, how I spend my time, who has access to me. Nothing gets better in my life.
This is why I don't go to basketball games. They're like 20,000 other. I just, I'm not interested in that. I'd rather be reading and with a small group of people. Um, And so one of the most controversial, weirdly controversial takes that people like, I don't even know why they get upset. It's just like weird thing to get upset about is the fact that it's obvious what you just said.
This is why I don't go to basketball games. They're like 20,000 other. I just, I'm not interested in that. I'd rather be reading and with a small group of people. Um, And so one of the most controversial, weirdly controversial takes that people like, I don't even know why they get upset. It's just like weird thing to get upset about is the fact that it's obvious what you just said.
History's greatest founders, low to none introspection. Not just low, none. And what I mean is there's a lot, there may be a lot of introspection, but once they find what they want to do, there's not a lot of dilly-dallying. Sam Walton did not wake up every morning like, I wonder what I'm going to do today. No, he knew. He's like, I'm going to wake up and I'm going to solve some problems.
History's greatest founders, low to none introspection. Not just low, none. And what I mean is there's a lot, there may be a lot of introspection, but once they find what they want to do, there's not a lot of dilly-dallying. Sam Walton did not wake up every morning like, I wonder what I'm going to do today. No, he knew. He's like, I'm going to wake up and I'm going to solve some problems.
I'm going to make Walmart a little better. And I'm going to keep doing that. And then I'm going to hunt some quail in the afternoon, maybe hit some tennis balls, fly my plane, look for and try to build another store. Just do that over and over and over again and go to church on Sundays, spend time with my family. And that was his entire life.
I'm going to make Walmart a little better. And I'm going to keep doing that. And then I'm going to hunt some quail in the afternoon, maybe hit some tennis balls, fly my plane, look for and try to build another store. Just do that over and over and over again and go to church on Sundays, spend time with my family. And that was his entire life.
The problem is like modern humans, they're afraid of commitment. Because the act of committing is not just that you're committing to one thing, it's you're saying no to everything else. People want this excessive amount of optionality. It's like, I'm not looking around like, what should I do for a living? I'm going to do podcasting until I have a fucking voice. that's all I care about.
The problem is like modern humans, they're afraid of commitment. Because the act of committing is not just that you're committing to one thing, it's you're saying no to everything else. People want this excessive amount of optionality. It's like, I'm not looking around like, what should I do for a living? I'm going to do podcasting until I have a fucking voice. that's all I care about.
Um, so I don't wake up like, what should I do today? This is like, I know what I'm gonna do. I'm going to read, I'm going to make podcasts, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to keep doing what I do and do this forever. And that's like thinking about all this other stuff. Like, are you going to get recognized to do? What about this? It's like, I don't care. Like, I don't know.
Um, so I don't wake up like, what should I do today? This is like, I know what I'm gonna do. I'm going to read, I'm going to make podcasts, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to keep doing what I do and do this forever. And that's like thinking about all this other stuff. Like, are you going to get recognized to do? What about this? It's like, I don't care. Like, I don't know.
I'm just going to keep doing this. And if that happens and I'll come up with some kind of solution to it.
I'm just going to keep doing this. And if that happens and I'll come up with some kind of solution to it.
But this is why me and you have talked privately. It's like, Ben, what's all these other distractions? You're launching this agency and you're doing this other podcast. It's like, dude, do you understand how rare it is? The only person that can answer that question is you. Nobody can help you Figure out what you should do in life. It's like you just either know it or you don't.
But this is why me and you have talked privately. It's like, Ben, what's all these other distractions? You're launching this agency and you're doing this other podcast. It's like, dude, do you understand how rare it is? The only person that can answer that question is you. Nobody can help you Figure out what you should do in life. It's like you just either know it or you don't.
And sometimes you have hints that maybe people are still unsure about it. But one thing I told you is like, dude, the idea that you could even make a podcast and be good at podcasting is such a rare skill, like unbelievably rare. Think about how millions of people have attempted it. Most of those millions have quit already.
And sometimes you have hints that maybe people are still unsure about it. But one thing I told you is like, dude, the idea that you could even make a podcast and be good at podcasting is such a rare skill, like unbelievably rare. Think about how millions of people have attempted it. Most of those millions have quit already.
There's only 350,000 of them still going and 99% are never going to go anywhere. And you've already cracked this thing. If you love it, I would just keep pushing as much as possible. The question is, is this the thing that you want to do? And it's normal to waffle. Some people waffle like, oh, I should start a company or I should do this other thing.
There's only 350,000 of them still going and 99% are never going to go anywhere. And you've already cracked this thing. If you love it, I would just keep pushing as much as possible. The question is, is this the thing that you want to do? And it's normal to waffle. Some people waffle like, oh, I should start a company or I should do this other thing.
It's like, the only person that can answer that question is you. And I find reading life stories very helpful because then I think of like, oh, I feel that way. Oh, I'm like that. Like, oh, cool. And like, I'm almost like watching game tape on how they live their life.
It's like, the only person that can answer that question is you. And I find reading life stories very helpful because then I think of like, oh, I feel that way. Oh, I'm like that. Like, oh, cool. And like, I'm almost like watching game tape on how they live their life.
And then now I can adjust my life when I go out and play the game of life tomorrow by this little tweak based on what I just learned yesterday. It's kind of cool.
And then now I can adjust my life when I go out and play the game of life tomorrow by this little tweak based on what I just learned yesterday. It's kind of cool.
Yeah, so I am obsessed with... So it's very different. Think about in the entrepreneurship. There's an entrepreneurship ecosystem now, which never existed, especially when I was younger. And so now it's heavily dominated. Most of the media that founders and entrepreneurs consume is actually created by investors, which is a weird dynamic there because they don't always have the same...
Yeah, so I am obsessed with... So it's very different. Think about in the entrepreneurship. There's an entrepreneurship ecosystem now, which never existed, especially when I was younger. And so now it's heavily dominated. Most of the media that founders and entrepreneurs consume is actually created by investors, which is a weird dynamic there because they don't always have the same...
Your interests aren't always aligned. And what I'm obsessed with is not like the public company CEO. That's cool. I think Jeff Bezos is one of the greatest living entrepreneurs. What he built in Amazon, fucking incredible. I feel I'm one of the few people maybe on the planet that feel he deserves all the wealth that he's created.
Your interests aren't always aligned. And what I'm obsessed with is not like the public company CEO. That's cool. I think Jeff Bezos is one of the greatest living entrepreneurs. What he built in Amazon, fucking incredible. I feel I'm one of the few people maybe on the planet that feel he deserves all the wealth that he's created.
He created a magic button that I can press and anything that I want shows up in my house in a day or two later. I'm tuning all the other businesses, the cloud computing, everything else he's done. He's built one of the most complicated computers Difficult businesses that have ever existed. And he did it better than anybody else by a long shot.
He created a magic button that I can press and anything that I want shows up in my house in a day or two later. I'm tuning all the other businesses, the cloud computing, everything else he's done. He's built one of the most complicated computers Difficult businesses that have ever existed. And he did it better than anybody else by a long shot.
And I'm glad he has, whatever he has, $200 billion, whatever. What I feel is, for me, would be the apex of entrepreneurship is like a privately held, 100% owned business, right? Like a James Dyson. So the answer to your question is like, did you... The idea that he owns 100% of his business, he doesn't have to answer to a board. He doesn't have any shareholders to answer to.
And I'm glad he has, whatever he has, $200 billion, whatever. What I feel is, for me, would be the apex of entrepreneurship is like a privately held, 100% owned business, right? Like a James Dyson. So the answer to your question is like, did you... The idea that he owns 100% of his business, he doesn't have to answer to a board. He doesn't have any shareholders to answer to.
He answers to his customers and his employees. And he builds what are the best products in the world in his category. So for me, that looks a lot like what I'm trying to do on a much smaller scale. And then you take away from how big these businesses get. Michael Bloomberg's the same way. The founder of Red Bull, he only owned 49% of Red Bull, but he turned down...
He answers to his customers and his employees. And he builds what are the best products in the world in his category. So for me, that looks a lot like what I'm trying to do on a much smaller scale. And then you take away from how big these businesses get. Michael Bloomberg's the same way. The founder of Red Bull, he only owned 49% of Red Bull, but he turned down...
multiple acquisition offers where his 49% would have given him $20 billion, you know, because he had complete control. He didn't want to go public, didn't want a board of directors, didn't want all that other stuff. And then some of these businesses can grow. Like the people, some of the entrepreneurs I most admire, I meet and they're like hidden. They'll never write a book.
multiple acquisition offers where his 49% would have given him $20 billion, you know, because he had complete control. He didn't want to go public, didn't want a board of directors, didn't want all that other stuff. And then some of these businesses can grow. Like the people, some of the entrepreneurs I most admire, I meet and they're like hidden. They'll never write a book.
They won't do anything. And they're like family held companies. And when you get close to them and I've visited them, I've gone to their off sites, I've gone to their offices, I've gone to their warehouses and they look like they built entire worlds, like entire worlds. They have, you know, they control everything. It's just fascinating.
They won't do anything. And they're like family held companies. And when you get close to them and I've visited them, I've gone to their off sites, I've gone to their offices, I've gone to their warehouses and they look like they built entire worlds, like entire worlds. They have, you know, they control everything. It's just fascinating.
And then some of these businesses, like there's all these reports and you can never really know. But from what I hear on good, a good account, like think about James Ice and he's like 75, 76 years old, owns a hundred percent of his business. I've heard, and I don't know if this is true, that he's been pulling, you know, 5 billion a year out in dividends.
And then some of these businesses, like there's all these reports and you can never really know. But from what I hear on good, a good account, like think about James Ice and he's like 75, 76 years old, owns a hundred percent of his business. I've heard, and I don't know if this is true, that he's been pulling, you know, 5 billion a year out in dividends.
And if you look, there's hints because he owns more sheep than anybody in the world. He's the largest green pea producer. You've run out of things to invest in when your business is throwing up billions and billions of dollars. It's like me and you taking a paycheck of $5 billion a year, year after year after year after year after year.
And if you look, there's hints because he owns more sheep than anybody in the world. He's the largest green pea producer. You've run out of things to invest in when your business is throwing up billions and billions of dollars. It's like me and you taking a paycheck of $5 billion a year, year after year after year after year after year.
And I know somebody that controls a large base of capital, and their base of capital is getting so big that they keep having to to buy bigger and bigger companies, right? To move the needle. And from what I heard is they approached to see if Dyson was open to selling. And just to paraphrase, this is not a direct quote, but I thought it was hilarious.
And I know somebody that controls a large base of capital, and their base of capital is getting so big that they keep having to to buy bigger and bigger companies, right? To move the needle. And from what I heard is they approached to see if Dyson was open to selling. And just to paraphrase, this is not a direct quote, but I thought it was hilarious.
The response to, would you be interested in selling is, fuck you, this is a family heirloom. And so it's just like, I deeply admire that, where he's just like, I'm not doing it for money. I'm not doing it so I can sell this and have the biggest, you know, I already have more money than I know what to do with. Like, what am I going to do with more money?
The response to, would you be interested in selling is, fuck you, this is a family heirloom. And so it's just like, I deeply admire that, where he's just like, I'm not doing it for money. I'm not doing it so I can sell this and have the biggest, you know, I already have more money than I know what to do with. Like, what am I going to do with more money?
And this is where, like, you can have a single podcast, a single book, or sometimes a single conversation to change your mind, where Sam Zell, the two hours I got to spend with Sam Zell, literally, more than any conversation I've ever had in my life, including the one I had with Munger. Changed my life more than anything because that was his point.
And this is where, like, you can have a single podcast, a single book, or sometimes a single conversation to change your mind, where Sam Zell, the two hours I got to spend with Sam Zell, literally, more than any conversation I've ever had in my life, including the one I had with Munger. Changed my life more than anything because that was his point.
He's just like, at a certain level, you know, and he was not, he was very wealthy, but he wasn't like the richest person in the world, but he had already run out of things to spend money on to the point where like he was making money faster and he could give it away. And his whole point was just like, the things that you own tend to start to own you. He's like, I have a place in Chicago.
He's just like, at a certain level, you know, and he was not, he was very wealthy, but he wasn't like the richest person in the world, but he had already run out of things to spend money on to the point where like he was making money faster and he could give it away. And his whole point was just like, the things that you own tend to start to own you. He's like, I have a place in Chicago.
I have a compound in Malibu that he spends 38 weekends a year at, right? And then everything else he just rents, right? He's like, it's somebody else's problem. And he goes, there's only one true luxury in life. And he's like, David tried to get to private jet money.
I have a compound in Malibu that he spends 38 weekends a year at, right? And then everything else he just rents, right? He's like, it's somebody else's problem. And he goes, there's only one true luxury in life. And he's like, David tried to get to private jet money.
And his whole thing was like, the only thing that's true luxury for him was the fact that he used his private jet like three hours a day. So who knows what you might even spend like 10 million a year flying. But 10 million years seems like a lot of money. But not when you have $10 billion. He's just never going to come close to that. So again, at those kind of levels, what's the difference?
And his whole thing was like, the only thing that's true luxury for him was the fact that he used his private jet like three hours a day. So who knows what you might even spend like 10 million a year flying. But 10 million years seems like a lot of money. But not when you have $10 billion. He's just never going to come close to that. So again, at those kind of levels, what's the difference?
Do you believe that?
Do you believe that?
So I think it's really smart to take the advice. Have you ever flown private before? Yeah. Okay. Like twice. Okay. Yeah. It's like, it's like completely different. Uh, like it's not twice as good. It's not 10 times as good. Yeah. It's a hundred times as good.
So I think it's really smart to take the advice. Have you ever flown private before? Yeah. Okay. Like twice. Okay. Yeah. It's like, it's like completely different. Uh, like it's not twice as good. It's not 10 times as good. Yeah. It's a hundred times as good.
So my whole thing is like, I'm not like, I'm not going to do things that I don't want to, I don't, I'm not going to like let people entice me. There's a great piece of advice in Chuck Eager, the guy that broke the sound barrier in his biography that I read like four years ago. I still remember. He's like, His obsession was just flying and pilots.
So my whole thing is like, I'm not like, I'm not going to do things that I don't want to, I don't, I'm not going to like let people entice me. There's a great piece of advice in Chuck Eager, the guy that broke the sound barrier in his biography that I read like four years ago. I still remember. He's like, His obsession was just flying and pilots.
He liked to fly and he liked to hang out with pilots. One thing I'm very proud of myself is I never let them tempt me with promises of more money or status or prestige to do something I don't want to do. My point is, I think, if I look at it from an entrepreneur, yeah, podcasting is one of the most undervalued assets in the world. I think I'm going to keep getting better at it.
He liked to fly and he liked to hang out with pilots. One thing I'm very proud of myself is I never let them tempt me with promises of more money or status or prestige to do something I don't want to do. My point is, I think, if I look at it from an entrepreneur, yeah, podcasting is one of the most undervalued assets in the world. I think I'm going to keep getting better at it.
I'm going to build better businesses around it. And I think there's going to be multiple billionaire podcasters. I've been talking about this for years. And some people say you're fucking crazy. And then they see some of the numbers that Rogan makes and they're like, oh, maybe it's not that crazy. It's just like, it's not even has nothing to do with podcasting.
I'm going to build better businesses around it. And I think there's going to be multiple billionaire podcasters. I've been talking about this for years. And some people say you're fucking crazy. And then they see some of the numbers that Rogan makes and they're like, oh, maybe it's not that crazy. It's just like, it's not even has nothing to do with podcasting.
It's like, if you would have said there's going to be multiple billionaire podcasters, People are like, no, you're crazy. Now there's a ton of them. You know, you see billionaire YouTubers. No, it's never gonna happen. Yes, there's gonna be a ton of them. Like, it's just everything. Billionaire athletes. Of course it's like that. It was just obvious to me sooner than it was to other people.
It's like, if you would have said there's going to be multiple billionaire podcasters, People are like, no, you're crazy. Now there's a ton of them. You know, you see billionaire YouTubers. No, it's never gonna happen. Yes, there's gonna be a ton of them. Like, it's just everything. Billionaire athletes. Of course it's like that. It was just obvious to me sooner than it was to other people.
So like... yeah like out of the things that i would want to spend money on to build wealth on yeah private i don't even have to own my private plane the funny thing is how much money is private jet money that's well it depends like if you're sam zell like he's like i'm not again i think uh my goal as like some people literally have like they wake up with a burning desire to go to an airport
So like... yeah like out of the things that i would want to spend money on to build wealth on yeah private i don't even have to own my private plane the funny thing is how much money is private jet money that's well it depends like if you're sam zell like he's like i'm not again i think uh my goal as like some people literally have like they wake up with a burning desire to go to an airport
and get on a plane. I'm not one of those people. I prefer when I spend my summers in California, I like those kind of trips. You fly, you stay there for two months, and you actually live there. I hate these short trips. Yeah, these short trips. There's a guy on Twitter named Preston Holland that can tell you all about this.
and get on a plane. I'm not one of those people. I prefer when I spend my summers in California, I like those kind of trips. You fly, you stay there for two months, and you actually live there. I hate these short trips. Yeah, these short trips. There's a guy on Twitter named Preston Holland that can tell you all about this.
My point being is people can figure out the economics or whatever they want and how to do it on their own. My point being is I think the larger thing here is optimizing for money after a certain level. Your life is literally just how you spend your time. Let me finish with that. I know a ton of people that fly private that are fucking miserable. So it's obviously not the solution.
My point being is people can figure out the economics or whatever they want and how to do it on their own. My point being is I think the larger thing here is optimizing for money after a certain level. Your life is literally just how you spend your time. Let me finish with that. I know a ton of people that fly private that are fucking miserable. So it's obviously not the solution.
That was your dream. I would say that to somebody, a few people have said that to me since the episode came out. It's like, Todd, all that means to me is like Todd Graves is ahead of most of humanity because most of humanity doesn't even have a dream. I don't care that his dream is chicken fingers. I just care that he has a dream and he has a purpose and he's identified that purpose.
That was your dream. I would say that to somebody, a few people have said that to me since the episode came out. It's like, Todd, all that means to me is like Todd Graves is ahead of most of humanity because most of humanity doesn't even have a dream. I don't care that his dream is chicken fingers. I just care that he has a dream and he has a purpose and he's identified that purpose.
He's made a commitment to it. And he also, and for him, he, he believes is a God given mission. So he's giving a lot of money away to like charity to help people. Like, so chicken fingers, like I'm really good at this. I can make a lot of money at this and then I can use that money to help people. That makes perfect sense to me.
He's made a commitment to it. And he also, and for him, he, he believes is a God given mission. So he's giving a lot of money away to like charity to help people. Like, so chicken fingers, like I'm really good at this. I can make a lot of money at this and then I can use that money to help people. That makes perfect sense to me.
I don't have that same opinion. I think that we're obviously influenced by the circumstances we're born into. How many people are starting new countries right now? I think that same kind of personality, depending on where they're born, same thing with Rockefeller. Rockefeller was born in 1830, came of age around the Civil War. There's a bunch of the robber barons who were born in the 1830s.
I don't have that same opinion. I think that we're obviously influenced by the circumstances we're born into. How many people are starting new countries right now? I think that same kind of personality, depending on where they're born, same thing with Rockefeller. Rockefeller was born in 1830, came of age around the Civil War. There's a bunch of the robber barons who were born in the 1830s.
There's something very special and dynamic about the U.S. economy that they took advantage of then. And you place them 200 years before and yeah, let's go back 700 years and they might be more like Genghis Khan.
There's something very special and dynamic about the U.S. economy that they took advantage of then. And you place them 200 years before and yeah, let's go back 700 years and they might be more like Genghis Khan.
than they are you know entrepreneurs i just think like dude how many people are starting cities and how many people are starting countries now nobody nobody but that's what i'm saying yeah we got to get back we got to take over the world david that's yeah you must return return no i say all i care about is like for somebody like that he's like literally he's in his like and people say oh it's unhealthy whatever the case is like i don't know
than they are you know entrepreneurs i just think like dude how many people are starting cities and how many people are starting countries now nobody nobody but that's what i'm saying yeah we got to get back we got to take over the world david that's yeah you must return return no i say all i care about is like for somebody like that he's like literally he's in his like and people say oh it's unhealthy whatever the case is like i don't know
it brings me a little bit of joy. I don't, I'm not going to eat it for breakfast, lunch and dinner, you know, but like, I like the chicken fingers and he made my life, you know, a little bit better in that 15 minutes than I'm eating his and dunking his chicken fingers in the cane sauce. Like I, I like stuff like that. I don't think there's anything wrong with him.
it brings me a little bit of joy. I don't, I'm not going to eat it for breakfast, lunch and dinner, you know, but like, I like the chicken fingers and he made my life, you know, a little bit better in that 15 minutes than I'm eating his and dunking his chicken fingers in the cane sauce. Like I, I like stuff like that. I don't think there's anything wrong with him.
The wealthiest woman in the world when she's alive, when you get that part. Not just very wealthy. The deal that she has where she gets like 2% or 5% of all the gross profits or gross sales, it would be the equivalent if somebody came to you and said, Ben, I'm going to
The wealthiest woman in the world when she's alive, when you get that part. Not just very wealthy. The deal that she has where she gets like 2% or 5% of all the gross profits or gross sales, it would be the equivalent if somebody came to you and said, Ben, I'm going to
uh pay you 300 million dollars a year and in our contract i have to take care of every single one of your living expenses i've never seen there's some crazy deals that's one of the craziest deals in history yeah although of course always is resentful of her coco chanel number five deal where she's getting 10 of the of what is the greatest product of her lifetime
uh pay you 300 million dollars a year and in our contract i have to take care of every single one of your living expenses i've never seen there's some crazy deals that's one of the craziest deals in history yeah although of course always is resentful of her coco chanel number five deal where she's getting 10 of the of what is the greatest product of her lifetime
One of the greatest products of all time. In terms of cost per ounce, it's pretty crazy.
One of the greatest products of all time. In terms of cost per ounce, it's pretty crazy.
No, definitely. You get access in a different way now. Think about the power that a person like Bezos wields. He's got unlimited money. No, he's got no. Political influence. Absolutely. Like it's not the same. Like you're not going to be like a dictator, like a like a Putin kind of character without that.
No, definitely. You get access in a different way now. Think about the power that a person like Bezos wields. He's got unlimited money. No, he's got no. Political influence. Absolutely. Like it's not the same. Like you're not going to be like a dictator, like a like a Putin kind of character without that.
But like in terms of if you're living in a free society, like the amount of power that you can wield through building one of the world's largest companies is like unbelievable. Kind of, but he's so restrained by social strictures.
But like in terms of if you're living in a free society, like the amount of power that you can wield through building one of the world's largest companies is like unbelievable. Kind of, but he's so restrained by social strictures.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It depends on what he does with the money. I don't know. I'm taking Todd Graves' life over that.
It depends on what he does with the money. I don't know. I'm taking Todd Graves' life over that.
Listen, I think the problem that people have that I apparently don't is they're like, that person's like X. I'm not like X, so therefore I don't understand that. And my point is like, yeah, I don't want to build a chicken finger dream restaurant.
Listen, I think the problem that people have that I apparently don't is they're like, that person's like X. I'm not like X, so therefore I don't understand that. And my point is like, yeah, I don't want to build a chicken finger dream restaurant.
but I'm just glad that he found something that he's so interested in and he finds it like addicting and fascinating and he's trying to do be the best he can at it it's like irrelevant to me what people choose you know just like I didn't want to be a basketball player I don't want to be a public company CEO there's all these other things I don't want to do
but I'm just glad that he found something that he's so interested in and he finds it like addicting and fascinating and he's trying to do be the best he can at it it's like irrelevant to me what people choose you know just like I didn't want to be a basketball player I don't want to be a public company CEO there's all these other things I don't want to do
Like,
Like,
why is this guy addicted to podcasts well like that it's the same exact thing of you saying their opinion of me is the same as yours opinion of todd and my point is just like it's not the actual like activity i'm just glad i don't care what people get obsessed with or what they want to do i'm just glad that they have some kind of purpose for their life see and i i do care because i just taught if you're listening to this this is what i want to message
why is this guy addicted to podcasts well like that it's the same exact thing of you saying their opinion of me is the same as yours opinion of todd and my point is just like it's not the actual like activity i'm just glad i don't care what people get obsessed with or what they want to do i'm just glad that they have some kind of purpose for their life see and i i do care because i just taught if you're listening to this this is what i want to message
How do you, so then how do you apply that to your own like life and work? The way I apply it is that like, I guess my better question, does that belief actually change the way that you go about building like your life? Yes, absolutely.
How do you, so then how do you apply that to your own like life and work? The way I apply it is that like, I guess my better question, does that belief actually change the way that you go about building like your life? Yes, absolutely.
They do have that aesthetic judgment. It's a product. Jobs has this quote that can't... I mean, I can get... completely accurate but directionally correct is the point of companies only exist so we can build products. And profits only exist so the company continues to exist to build the product. I wouldn't build companies unless I wanted to build products.
They do have that aesthetic judgment. It's a product. Jobs has this quote that can't... I mean, I can get... completely accurate but directionally correct is the point of companies only exist so we can build products. And profits only exist so the company continues to exist to build the product. I wouldn't build companies unless I wanted to build products.
And those are also the founders that I love. I just did this clip. I just hired this guy that does my clips now. And the first clip he did was excellent. It's titled Anti-Business Billionaires. And it's Yvonne Chouinard from Patagonia, James Dyson, Steve Jobs. And it's just like, they're so obsessed with the quality of their product. And that is the first and most important thing.
And those are also the founders that I love. I just did this clip. I just hired this guy that does my clips now. And the first clip he did was excellent. It's titled Anti-Business Billionaires. And it's Yvonne Chouinard from Patagonia, James Dyson, Steve Jobs. And it's just like, they're so obsessed with the quality of their product. And that is the first and most important thing.
So like, let's say people have tried to actually hire me like to work or run their company or whatever. And it's just like, no, that's a money decision. I'm like literally trying to build a beautiful product. I don't know if we were recording or not, but why won't Outsource the editing? I don't think I'll ever Outsource the editing. Why do the things that I want to do?
So like, let's say people have tried to actually hire me like to work or run their company or whatever. And it's just like, no, that's a money decision. I'm like literally trying to build a beautiful product. I don't know if we were recording or not, but why won't Outsource the editing? I don't think I'll ever Outsource the editing. Why do the things that I want to do?
I want to build the best product in my category for the most successful and productive people in the world. That is how I think about founders. That is what I'm trying to do. I would rather do that and make way less money than be hired as a CEO at your company for 15 times or 100 times the money.
I want to build the best product in my category for the most successful and productive people in the world. That is how I think about founders. That is what I'm trying to do. I would rather do that and make way less money than be hired as a CEO at your company for 15 times or 100 times the money.
Because I also think, something I talked about in that clip is like, if you actually build a great product and make somebody else's life better and you retain control, you'll get the money anyways.
Because I also think, something I talked about in that clip is like, if you actually build a great product and make somebody else's life better and you retain control, you'll get the money anyways.
Somebody asked me the other day, they're like, what is the font of Founders? I go, I have no idea. I created it in five minutes and I paid $5 to export a high-res version out of an Apple.
Somebody asked me the other day, they're like, what is the font of Founders? I go, I have no idea. I created it in five minutes and I paid $5 to export a high-res version out of an Apple.
Yes. Everything I do is just off my personal taste. I don't think there's any other way to do it. What am I going to do? Remember when you were... I want you to finish your thought in one second, but I remember you were...
Yes. Everything I do is just off my personal taste. I don't think there's any other way to do it. What am I going to do? Remember when you were... I want you to finish your thought in one second, but I remember you were...
starting to put like music into some of your episodes and you're like hey read this like thread what what uh what should i do here and it's like one guy's like i love the music the next tweet underneath it's like i hate the music it's like what should you do here is what you should have been doing the whole time which is like make what you like because like they're every single person you put something on the world they're gonna be feeling love exactly like it and and like the exact opposite
starting to put like music into some of your episodes and you're like hey read this like thread what what uh what should i do here and it's like one guy's like i love the music the next tweet underneath it's like i hate the music it's like what should you do here is what you should have been doing the whole time which is like make what you like because like they're every single person you put something on the world they're gonna be feeling love exactly like it and and like the exact opposite
And it's just like, I just, everything's personal taste. I went through, I was like, this looks good. Boom, done. And then people are like, well, what else? What other process? I'm like, there is no other process.
And it's just like, I just, everything's personal taste. I went through, I was like, this looks good. Boom, done. And then people are like, well, what else? What other process? I'm like, there is no other process.
I listened to the episode before I go, it goes out. If I like it, it's going out.
I listened to the episode before I go, it goes out. If I like it, it's going out.
So what about, what point were you making about being Spartan though?
So what about, what point were you making about being Spartan though?
But it's more than putting thought into it. You could think about something for a few hours, a few days. Your taste and intuition is molded over your lifetime. Yeah. And some of this stuff, you won't even be able to understand because it's in your subconscious. I love what Cormac McCarthy's point where he swore. You say he's my favorite living novelist. He just died.
But it's more than putting thought into it. You could think about something for a few hours, a few days. Your taste and intuition is molded over your lifetime. Yeah. And some of this stuff, you won't even be able to understand because it's in your subconscious. I love what Cormac McCarthy's point where he swore. You say he's my favorite living novelist. He just died.
But if you just read The Road or read Blood Marini, he's obviously better than everybody else. And his whole thing was like, yeah, it all comes from my subconscious. And he's like, subconscious is actually older than language. And that's where he felt it came from. And so, yeah, it's not about not thinking about it.
But if you just read The Road or read Blood Marini, he's obviously better than everybody else. And his whole thing was like, yeah, it all comes from my subconscious. And he's like, subconscious is actually older than language. And that's where he felt it came from. And so, yeah, it's not about not thinking about it.
But again, you think about it for a day or two, it's like that's nothing compared to the... your entire life you've been molded and your, your things you can't even explain. There's no language for why you believe some of the things you do or why you like the, some of the things you do. Somebody said at one time I had to look up cause I didn't eat sushi at the time.
But again, you think about it for a day or two, it's like that's nothing compared to the... your entire life you've been molded and your, your things you can't even explain. There's no language for why you believe some of the things you do or why you like the, some of the things you do. Somebody said at one time I had to look up cause I didn't eat sushi at the time.
Uh, they said it was, is it sashimi? What is it called?
Uh, they said it was, is it sashimi? What is it called?
you're the type of sushi yeah so it's a they call it sashimi style podcasting that's very good yeah the fact that i don't have any uh like there's no intro music there's no anything there's just me fucking ripping through the book at 2x speed so you're talking about intuition leads me like it reminds me of there's a phrase used by a lot of artists poets around um
you're the type of sushi yeah so it's a they call it sashimi style podcasting that's very good yeah the fact that i don't have any uh like there's no intro music there's no anything there's just me fucking ripping through the book at 2x speed so you're talking about intuition leads me like it reminds me of there's a phrase used by a lot of artists poets around um
I, so I had, there's this idea, there's this guy named Jim Simons who built this, the most successful fund of all time called Renaissance. Renaissance Technology, the fund I think was called the Medallion Fund. He just passed away. He made more money than anybody else in investing by a long shot. And, because it's really like trading more than investing. And his biography is very fascinating.
I, so I had, there's this idea, there's this guy named Jim Simons who built this, the most successful fund of all time called Renaissance. Renaissance Technology, the fund I think was called the Medallion Fund. He just passed away. He made more money than anybody else in investing by a long shot. And, because it's really like trading more than investing. And his biography is very fascinating.
I'll probably redo it now that he passed away and it's like been a few years since I read it. But one of the things that, one of the ideas that I got from that is, uh, he used to, people would walk into the office and there'd be like, he'd be laying on his couch. The lights were off and his eyes are closed. And I thought he was sleeping. He wasn't sleeping. He was thinking.
I'll probably redo it now that he passed away and it's like been a few years since I read it. But one of the things that, one of the ideas that I got from that is, uh, he used to, people would walk into the office and there'd be like, he'd be laying on his couch. The lights were off and his eyes are closed. And I thought he was sleeping. He wasn't sleeping. He was thinking.
And he had this insight that if you like, don't have any sound, like you have no input. Right. So I don't meditate. I don't really pray. Uh, you know, I don't go to church or anything like that, but like, What I do do is I will make sure that like my eyes are closed, whether I have a sleep mask on or I just close my eyes and I'm awake and I don't have, I can't hear anything. I can't see anything.
And he had this insight that if you like, don't have any sound, like you have no input. Right. So I don't meditate. I don't really pray. Uh, you know, I don't go to church or anything like that, but like, What I do do is I will make sure that like my eyes are closed, whether I have a sleep mask on or I just close my eyes and I'm awake and I don't have, I can't hear anything. I can't see anything.
And then I just kind of like just see what is going on in my mind, you know? And it's just like, there's this weird thing. It's like all this computations happening in the background. And sometimes I'll actually fall asleep because it's relaxing. So that's a bad part. But a lot of times I don't. And it might be just doing this for like 30 minutes, right?
And then I just kind of like just see what is going on in my mind, you know? And it's just like, there's this weird thing. It's like all this computations happening in the background. And sometimes I'll actually fall asleep because it's relaxing. So that's a bad part. But a lot of times I don't. And it might be just doing this for like 30 minutes, right?
And there's just some kind of insight that was buried deep in my subconscious that I didn't give my brain enough time to open it up and think. I also walk, like if you look at my steps, it's probably like 15,000 steps a day, 20,000 steps a day. And half the time, it's just walking. Nothing. Sometimes I listen to podcasts. Sometimes I'm making phone calls.
And there's just some kind of insight that was buried deep in my subconscious that I didn't give my brain enough time to open it up and think. I also walk, like if you look at my steps, it's probably like 15,000 steps a day, 20,000 steps a day. And half the time, it's just walking. Nothing. Sometimes I listen to podcasts. Sometimes I'm making phone calls.
But other times, I'm just walking and letting my brain just... No input. And I think the problem is we're all addicted to these screens. People say no one reads anymore. Well, you're reading, but you're reading captions and tweet-sized stuff all day long. It's just too much information. I desire to live in an analog world.
But other times, I'm just walking and letting my brain just... No input. And I think the problem is we're all addicted to these screens. People say no one reads anymore. Well, you're reading, but you're reading captions and tweet-sized stuff all day long. It's just too much information. I desire to live in an analog world.
Going back to the filmmakers I draw inspiration from, Christopher Nolan doesn't have an email address, doesn't have a cell phone. goes to a city, will ask for directions, won't even use GPS. Like, this is a very analog world. And, you know, that's why I always read, like, it'd be way faster if I read, like, Kindle books.
Going back to the filmmakers I draw inspiration from, Christopher Nolan doesn't have an email address, doesn't have a cell phone. goes to a city, will ask for directions, won't even use GPS. Like, this is a very analog world. And, you know, that's why I always read, like, it'd be way faster if I read, like, Kindle books.
Although a lot of the books that you cover on the podcast are in a Kindle version. But, like, I just would rather have, like, a physical book, just focus on that, nothing else. And I think I do want to get to the point where it's like, I don't want to look at any of these, I don't want to stare at screens all day. I want to read books outside and go for walks and, like, think about what's going on.
Although a lot of the books that you cover on the podcast are in a Kindle version. But, like, I just would rather have, like, a physical book, just focus on that, nothing else. And I think I do want to get to the point where it's like, I don't want to look at any of these, I don't want to stare at screens all day. I want to read books outside and go for walks and, like, think about what's going on.
So, I don't know if you'd call that, like, spiritual or whatever, it's just like letting, making sure that there's this open communication my subconscious to, like, my active mind and making sure that, like, you know, you leave that open. Obviously, long showers. One of the reasons, like, swim laps, same thing.
So, I don't know if you'd call that, like, spiritual or whatever, it's just like letting, making sure that there's this open communication my subconscious to, like, my active mind and making sure that, like, you know, you leave that open. Obviously, long showers. One of the reasons, like, swim laps, same thing.
It's like you can't – I guess now there's, like, headphones you can listen to, but it's just, like, you're just your head and your movement. And you don't have to think about anything because it's just, like, you know how to instinctively swim.
It's like you can't – I guess now there's, like, headphones you can listen to, but it's just, like, you're just your head and your movement. And you don't have to think about anything because it's just, like, you know how to instinctively swim.
Yeah, well, it's like there's an interpretation that is subconscious. It's like when I read something and I'm like, oh, that spawned this other thought. I didn't like consciously like, let's think about this one sentence. And now let's see. It's not like a sort of process. you know, it's just like, Oh, this is not, it happens naturally. Um, and so, yeah.
Yeah, well, it's like there's an interpretation that is subconscious. It's like when I read something and I'm like, oh, that spawned this other thought. I didn't like consciously like, let's think about this one sentence. And now let's see. It's not like a sort of process. you know, it's just like, Oh, this is not, it happens naturally. Um, and so, yeah.
And I wouldn't say like, I don't know if I'm necessarily like inspired all the time. Like, um, like I'll watch and read the same stuff. Like I listened to the same songs, the same videos and stuff like that. I love like watching the last dance on Michael Jordan, defying ones, which is one of my favorite documentaries, Jimmy Iovine and Dr. Dre. So I'll rewatch things and play them in the background.
And I wouldn't say like, I don't know if I'm necessarily like inspired all the time. Like, um, like I'll watch and read the same stuff. Like I listened to the same songs, the same videos and stuff like that. I love like watching the last dance on Michael Jordan, defying ones, which is one of my favorite documentaries, Jimmy Iovine and Dr. Dre. So I'll rewatch things and play them in the background.
And I guess that's a form of inspiration, but it's, it's much more of like a, like a just a day in day out kind of like access to interesting information that, that spawns other thoughts.
And I guess that's a form of inspiration, but it's, it's much more of like a, like a just a day in day out kind of like access to interesting information that, that spawns other thoughts.
Eating chicken fingers. They're like, why have you not sold your company for billions? He goes, because God made me great at chicken fingers so I can help people. And so like you agree with him, but then you criticize him wrongfully, I might add. It was like, I don't know why, You're being so mean to these people. I'm not trying to be mean.
Eating chicken fingers. They're like, why have you not sold your company for billions? He goes, because God made me great at chicken fingers so I can help people. And so like you agree with him, but then you criticize him wrongfully, I might add. It was like, I don't know why, You're being so mean to these people. I'm not trying to be mean.
One of my favorite things that Napoleon said that I believe, he says, destiny must be fulfilled. That is my chief doctrine. I believe that before I record, and I haven't done this in a while, but for a few years, I listened to the same song over and over again before I record to get like, amped up and it's by this rapper named NF and the title is called Destiny.
One of my favorite things that Napoleon said that I believe, he says, destiny must be fulfilled. That is my chief doctrine. I believe that before I record, and I haven't done this in a while, but for a few years, I listened to the same song over and over again before I record to get like, amped up and it's by this rapper named NF and the title is called Destiny.
And it's like, I believe that I was meant to do what I'm doing. Like this is, I was mad. Like it's the right, I think I'm the right person, the right time with the right set of skills. And I thought about this the other day where it's just like, I would have been so fucked if I was born 20 years earlier. Like podcasting didn't exist. Like there was some movie.
And it's like, I believe that I was meant to do what I'm doing. Like this is, I was mad. Like it's the right, I think I'm the right person, the right time with the right set of skills. And I thought about this the other day where it's just like, I would have been so fucked if I was born 20 years earlier. Like podcasting didn't exist. Like there was some movie.
Oh, my son had never, my son's obsessed with dinosaurs and he just turned five. And so I was like, let's watch Jurassic Park, right? Because I was like, I loved this movie when I was a kid. I watched it over and over again. I didn't realize how scary it might be for a five-year-old. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was thinking about this. The movie came out in 93.
Oh, my son had never, my son's obsessed with dinosaurs and he just turned five. And so I was like, let's watch Jurassic Park, right? Because I was like, I loved this movie when I was a kid. I watched it over and over again. I didn't realize how scary it might be for a five-year-old. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was thinking about this. The movie came out in 93.
And I'm like, I thought about this yesterday. I was just like, dude, I'm so lucky. An extra 20 years earlier, there was no podcast in 93. If I wanted to be... Essentially, you'd have to go on the radio, you'd have to go to a building and ask them to put you on so people can hear you speak. There were so many gatekeepers, it would never happen.
And I'm like, I thought about this yesterday. I was just like, dude, I'm so lucky. An extra 20 years earlier, there was no podcast in 93. If I wanted to be... Essentially, you'd have to go on the radio, you'd have to go to a building and ask them to put you on so people can hear you speak. There were so many gatekeepers, it would never happen.
I'm so lucky to be built or to be to be born at this time. So yeah, I feel like this is my destiny. I think like, people think it's like some for a long time never bought me people like thought it was like low status. And I remember somebody telling me that like, You have a level, you're a level 10 talent chasing a level four opportunity.
I'm so lucky to be built or to be to be born at this time. So yeah, I feel like this is my destiny. I think like, people think it's like some for a long time never bought me people like thought it was like low status. And I remember somebody telling me that like, You have a level, you're a level 10 talent chasing a level four opportunity.
And I was just like, you're fucking completely wrong about this. Like they're so powerful. And then now you think about all the people, like the, the very.
And I was just like, you're fucking completely wrong about this. Like they're so powerful. And then now you think about all the people, like the, the very.
successful and influential and uh you know powerful people listen to founders and it's like they're giving me an hour of their time you know how valuable that is it's like the opposite of what you thought it was and it's because i actually chased my natural drift i followed my natural drift i didn't do it because i thought that was going to be the outcome i did it because i was genuinely interested in it and i was willing for people to say like this is a stupid fucking idea david and be like no it's not stupid to me it's not stupid to me so like i like it i'm going to keep doing it um so i actually do think it's like my destiny and it's like i think we we um
successful and influential and uh you know powerful people listen to founders and it's like they're giving me an hour of their time you know how valuable that is it's like the opposite of what you thought it was and it's because i actually chased my natural drift i followed my natural drift i didn't do it because i thought that was going to be the outcome i did it because i was genuinely interested in it and i was willing for people to say like this is a stupid fucking idea david and be like no it's not stupid to me it's not stupid to me so like i like it i'm going to keep doing it um so i actually do think it's like my destiny and it's like i think we we um
Have you ever read Robert Caro's biographies of LBJ? I haven't yet. Oh, my God. You're the perfect person to do... Who was the guy? There is a... So... There is a podcast. It's in the book. The books are excellent. I think there should only be, there's only one person alive that should be allowed to write an 800-page biography, and his name is Robert Caro. So most of them are just way too long.
Have you ever read Robert Caro's biographies of LBJ? I haven't yet. Oh, my God. You're the perfect person to do... Who was the guy? There is a... So... There is a podcast. It's in the book. The books are excellent. I think there should only be, there's only one person alive that should be allowed to write an 800-page biography, and his name is Robert Caro. So most of them are just way too long.
So there's a guy named W. Leo Daniel, okay? Yeah. And W. Leo Daniel is essentially kind of like Trump before Trump in a way. And the way the way this is tied to like podcasting is he became unbelievably successful because he had like 90 percent market share in the Florida Hill Country or Texas Hill Country for radio. So he had this he essentially became excessively famous radio.
So there's a guy named W. Leo Daniel, okay? Yeah. And W. Leo Daniel is essentially kind of like Trump before Trump in a way. And the way the way this is tied to like podcasting is he became unbelievably successful because he had like 90 percent market share in the Florida Hill Country or Texas Hill Country for radio. So he had this he essentially became excessively famous radio.
as a radio person, right? And then he's making all this money advertising on radio. And then he realizes, hey, I should own my own radio show. So he starts his own radio show that he owns. And he goes, instead of advertising, most of the people at home during that time were like housewives. And what did all housewives need? They bought flour, cooking flour.
as a radio person, right? And then he's making all this money advertising on radio. And then he realizes, hey, I should own my own radio show. So he starts his own radio show that he owns. And he goes, instead of advertising, most of the people at home during that time were like housewives. And what did all housewives need? They bought flour, cooking flour.
And so he's like, I made all this money for this flour company. I'm just going to start my own show. And then I'm just going to do my own flour. And he winds up building this huge fortune, like $40 million back way long time ago. And it was just unbelievable. And he's like, okay, well, what am I going to do with this power next? And they're like, he's going to run for governor.
And so he's like, I made all this money for this flour company. I'm just going to start my own show. And then I'm just going to do my own flour. And he winds up building this huge fortune, like $40 million back way long time ago. And it was just unbelievable. And he's like, okay, well, what am I going to do with this power next? And they're like, he's going to run for governor.
And people make fun of him. Remember when all that... You did the clips at the beginning of your Trump episode where they're like, Trump's going to run. Please run. We would love it. Please do this. Exact same response. And exactly what happened with Trump was like...
And people make fun of him. Remember when all that... You did the clips at the beginning of your Trump episode where they're like, Trump's going to run. Please run. We would love it. Please do this. Exact same response. And exactly what happened with Trump was like...
people would go out and they're like, wait a minute, all these rallies, political rallies, you have his competition that has 1,000 people and W. Leo Daniels has 10,000 people. Exactly what was going on with Trump. Same exact thing. So then he wins the governorship, which is hilarious, and then he moves his radio show and he's broadcasting live from the Texas governor's office.
people would go out and they're like, wait a minute, all these rallies, political rallies, you have his competition that has 1,000 people and W. Leo Daniels has 10,000 people. Exactly what was going on with Trump. Same exact thing. So then he wins the governorship, which is hilarious, and then he moves his radio show and he's broadcasting live from the Texas governor's office.
And then again, what is he going to do with this? What do I do next? Then he goes and runs for Senate against the young LBJ and beats LBJ too. So... The point being is like I was naturally interested in podcasting. I thought it was interesting. I thought they were beneficial educational tools. And then I started to realize like how influential they would be.
And then again, what is he going to do with this? What do I do next? Then he goes and runs for Senate against the young LBJ and beats LBJ too. So... The point being is like I was naturally interested in podcasting. I thought it was interesting. I thought they were beneficial educational tools. And then I started to realize like how influential they would be.
And then what happens is we just had this election where they call it the podcast election. And the Trump I talked to people in the Trump campaign before this. They knew they were calling it the podcast election before any but year a year before anybody else was.
And then what happens is we just had this election where they call it the podcast election. And the Trump I talked to people in the Trump campaign before this. They knew they were calling it the podcast election before any but year a year before anybody else was.
And if you look at like the, the amount of free, you know, attention he got compared to the democratic, the person that, you know, his competitor, it's like, you can just pull the public numbers. It's just absolutely insane. Um, so yeah, I think like, so when I, when I say, Hey, I think podcasting is my destiny.
And if you look at like the, the amount of free, you know, attention he got compared to the democratic, the person that, you know, his competitor, it's like, you can just pull the public numbers. It's just absolutely insane. Um, so yeah, I think like, so when I, when I say, Hey, I think podcasting is my destiny.
I think like, you know, I have a chance to like be one of the best people in the world at it. I'm personally obsessed with it. Uh, I think for a long time, people thought that was a very odd. I'm sure still people hearing me say this thing's a little odd. I think it's,
I think like, you know, I have a chance to like be one of the best people in the world at it. I'm personally obsessed with it. Uh, I think for a long time, people thought that was a very odd. I'm sure still people hearing me say this thing's a little odd. I think it's,
It'll be as obvious as it is to me today to other people, you know, five, 10 years from now, if not already, based on what should happen.
It'll be as obvious as it is to me today to other people, you know, five, 10 years from now, if not already, based on what should happen.
Never, never, never. Um, no, because again, like my whole thing, uh, one, I think you just have way more influence. Like I think the, you, you nailed it earlier. It's just like, there's certain people. I don't think fame is the right actual way to describe it. So like I did this episode on Oprah, which I was actually really proud of. I think it was a good episode.
Never, never, never. Um, no, because again, like my whole thing, uh, one, I think you just have way more influence. Like I think the, you, you nailed it earlier. It's just like, there's certain people. I don't think fame is the right actual way to describe it. So like I did this episode on Oprah, which I was actually really proud of. I think it was a good episode.
And this is something that she understood is, you know, she was on air five days a week, uh, Same people were watching her for years. And they're like, you know, I could have – she mentions this. So she talks about parasocial relationships. And she's like, I can have, like, an A-list actor. I can have Brad Pitt on the Oprah Winfrey show. And I see how people react to him.
And this is something that she understood is, you know, she was on air five days a week, uh, Same people were watching her for years. And they're like, you know, I could have – she mentions this. So she talks about parasocial relationships. And she's like, I can have, like, an A-list actor. I can have Brad Pitt on the Oprah Winfrey show. And I see how people react to him.
Like, they're like, oh, my God, I love you, everything else, right? But they don't actually know him because he's, like, an actor. They know who he is and who he looks like, but, like, he plays a different role and he's, like – you know, essentially on screen, very distant from them, you know, every few years, playing, acting as somebody else, reading, saying words written by other people.
Like, they're like, oh, my God, I love you, everything else, right? But they don't actually know him because he's, like, an actor. They know who he is and who he looks like, but, like, he plays a different role and he's, like – you know, essentially on screen, very distant from them, you know, every few years, playing, acting as somebody else, reading, saying words written by other people.
Where with Oprah, they would come up to her like, so good to see you. Do you want to come over to my house for lunch?
Where with Oprah, they would come up to her like, so good to see you. Do you want to come over to my house for lunch?
this is like the relationships like they don't I see how they act with A-list celebrities they don't act like that with me it's completely different and so like I actually think you would have more influence outside of it I also think that especially if this was like so I listen to the Hamilton soundtrack all the time I think it's like excellent I love hip hop I like history and everything else and that would be different if you're like the opportunity to create something from scratch like a founder
this is like the relationships like they don't I see how they act with A-list celebrities they don't act like that with me it's completely different and so like I actually think you would have more influence outside of it I also think that especially if this was like so I listen to the Hamilton soundtrack all the time I think it's like excellent I love hip hop I like history and everything else and that would be different if you're like the opportunity to create something from scratch like a founder
I'd be very interested in that. To take over as governor or president or whatever the case is, you're like running something that was built by somebody else. It's like being a CEO of a 200-year-old company. There's way better people at that than I am, than I ever will be. I like starting shit from brand new. I like having control. I like being like the creator of it, not running something.
I'd be very interested in that. To take over as governor or president or whatever the case is, you're like running something that was built by somebody else. It's like being a CEO of a 200-year-old company. There's way better people at that than I am, than I ever will be. I like starting shit from brand new. I like having control. I like being like the creator of it, not running something.
You know, I told you, people have asked me literally the CEO position of a company. They started. This is like never tempting at all.
You know, I told you, people have asked me literally the CEO position of a company. They started. This is like never tempting at all.
Great.
Great.
I love Sanders. Out of the two of us, it's obvious who should be the one that's in political office.
I love Sanders. Out of the two of us, it's obvious who should be the one that's in political office.
Yep.
Yep.
Your four were Endurance, excellent book. I read that. Wright Brothers, excellent book. Educational Bodybuilder, the first 114 pages of that. Yeah, exactly. Those are excellent. And then The Right Stuff. So for, this is a really good question. So for, let's do this. Let me make it very specific. Not like, let me say, what are the four books that I'd want my son to read? Yeah. Great.
Your four were Endurance, excellent book. I read that. Wright Brothers, excellent book. Educational Bodybuilder, the first 114 pages of that. Yeah, exactly. Those are excellent. And then The Right Stuff. So for, this is a really good question. So for, let's do this. Let me make it very specific. Not like, let me say, what are the four books that I'd want my son to read? Yeah. Great.
So, Against the Odds by James Dyson, because that book is all perseverance. It's, you know, the 14 years of struggle, 5,127 prototypes. Yeah. just being stubborn about what you want out of life and just not willing to... What was the line you said earlier about Americans over... Americans... They don't solve their problems, they overwhelm them.
So, Against the Odds by James Dyson, because that book is all perseverance. It's, you know, the 14 years of struggle, 5,127 prototypes. Yeah. just being stubborn about what you want out of life and just not willing to... What was the line you said earlier about Americans over... Americans... They don't solve their problems, they overwhelm them.
I think that's a great example, even though Jen Dyson's not American. So that would be up there. I think the Wright brothers would also be one of my picks because one... If you really think about it, it's like they were able to, through ingenuity and unbelievable, like the lightness resourcefulness, they solved one of the longest standing human problems ever. You knew this.
I think that's a great example, even though Jen Dyson's not American. So that would be up there. I think the Wright brothers would also be one of my picks because one... If you really think about it, it's like they were able to, through ingenuity and unbelievable, like the lightness resourcefulness, they solved one of the longest standing human problems ever. You knew this.
Like for thousands of years, humans have been writing about and trying to figure out how to fly. And. Even during, and it was really, you know, a ton of people were, the book does a great job of explaining, it's like a ton of people were doing exactly what the Wright brothers were trying to do as well. But they were way better funded.
Like for thousands of years, humans have been writing about and trying to figure out how to fly. And. Even during, and it was really, you know, a ton of people were, the book does a great job of explaining, it's like a ton of people were doing exactly what the Wright brothers were trying to do as well. But they were way better funded.
They had some of the most famous scientists and engineers on their team. And the Wright brothers came out and were the first ones to do it. And they did it with like $1,500 of profits from like their bicycle shop, which is just like unbelievable. You know, arguably the most resourceful people that have ever lived. So I'd have Wright Brothers. I would have Against the Odds.
They had some of the most famous scientists and engineers on their team. And the Wright brothers came out and were the first ones to do it. And they did it with like $1,500 of profits from like their bicycle shop, which is just like unbelievable. You know, arguably the most resourceful people that have ever lived. So I'd have Wright Brothers. I would have Against the Odds.
I mean endurance is a good one just because I do think like by endurance we conquer is one of the best mottos I've ever heard for a long time for years on my lock screen it was a it was a picture of Ernest Shackleton with that beard where he's just covered and crusted in ice yeah so I think like again but I think against the odds kind of gets that don't give up on your dream so I'm not going to use that slot but that was you picked really good ones
I mean endurance is a good one just because I do think like by endurance we conquer is one of the best mottos I've ever heard for a long time for years on my lock screen it was a it was a picture of Ernest Shackleton with that beard where he's just covered and crusted in ice yeah so I think like again but I think against the odds kind of gets that don't give up on your dream so I'm not going to use that slot but that was you picked really good ones
It speaks to, again, that you have a talent for this and that you should just be working on your podcast night and day. You should be making babies, which you're already doing because you're about to have your fourth kid. And you should be working on your podcast. And then you're still working out or you're injured.
It speaks to, again, that you have a talent for this and that you should just be working on your podcast night and day. You should be making babies, which you're already doing because you're about to have your fourth kid. And you should be working on your podcast. And then you're still working out or you're injured.
Yeah, because last time I saw you, you were in phenomenal shape. So you got a podcast, baby making, health. There's nothing else that you need to do. Okay, so Gensiads by James Dyson, Wright Brothers.
Yeah, because last time I saw you, you were in phenomenal shape. So you got a podcast, baby making, health. There's nothing else that you need to do. Okay, so Gensiads by James Dyson, Wright Brothers.
um i'm going to mention the carl book the the second in his series on lyndon johnson uh the means to ascent um it really talks about like have you ever read robert carl's book called work or goes into how he does his process no uh-uh i would love that there's a phenomenal story from that book i'm gonna read it to you real quick
um i'm going to mention the carl book the the second in his series on lyndon johnson uh the means to ascent um it really talks about like have you ever read robert carl's book called work or goes into how he does his process no uh-uh i would love that there's a phenomenal story from that book i'm gonna read it to you real quick
um so the reason i'd put that up there is because i mean the whole series is excellent i i think masters of senate is probably the one i like the least in in the the series but lbj's i'm really big on personal mottos and so lbj's um personal motto was do everything and you will win yeah do everything and you'll win.
um so the reason i'd put that up there is because i mean the whole series is excellent i i think masters of senate is probably the one i like the least in in the the series but lbj's i'm really big on personal mottos and so lbj's um personal motto was do everything and you will win yeah do everything and you'll win.
Very similar to, to Napoleon when he says, you know, all the events hang on the, like the, the, the tiniest, uh, like little detail or whatever. And like most people, and I forgot the exact, uh, way he says it. Like most people don't actually seize like the opportunity that's in front of them.
Very similar to, to Napoleon when he says, you know, all the events hang on the, like the, the, the tiniest, uh, like little detail or whatever. And like most people, and I forgot the exact, uh, way he says it. Like most people don't actually seize like the opportunity that's in front of them.
Yeah, I think I'm obviously, I study people for a living, and so I think people are powerful, the best ones change everything. Napoleon's version of this is, he says, in war, men are nothing, and a man is everything. One man is everything, yeah. One man is everything. So the line I was looking for is, Napoleon says, all great events hang by a single thread.
Yeah, I think I'm obviously, I study people for a living, and so I think people are powerful, the best ones change everything. Napoleon's version of this is, he says, in war, men are nothing, and a man is everything. One man is everything, yeah. One man is everything. So the line I was looking for is, Napoleon says, all great events hang by a single thread.
The clever man takes advantage of everything, neglects nothing that may give him some added opportunity. The less clever man, by neglecting one thing, sometimes misses everything. So LBJ's version of that is, if you do everything, you'll win, and in means of assent, goes into exactly what he was willing to do. And in some cases, like...
The clever man takes advantage of everything, neglects nothing that may give him some added opportunity. The less clever man, by neglecting one thing, sometimes misses everything. So LBJ's version of that is, if you do everything, you'll win, and in means of assent, goes into exactly what he was willing to do. And in some cases, like...
lack of scruples like he's very like you know people call him corrupt or dishonest or whatever the case is I think there's a obviously I'm not trying to get my son to be that way but I think there's it just explains that there's a lot of people that are out there like that and if you can channel that in a positive direction that's great but also you have to be very careful because other people will do that to you so it's like there's an offensive element to it that I want to be in a more positive direction and then also a defensive element that I'd want him to be aware of like the world that he inhabits especially if I'm not here anymore
lack of scruples like he's very like you know people call him corrupt or dishonest or whatever the case is I think there's a obviously I'm not trying to get my son to be that way but I think there's it just explains that there's a lot of people that are out there like that and if you can channel that in a positive direction that's great but also you have to be very careful because other people will do that to you so it's like there's an offensive element to it that I want to be in a more positive direction and then also a defensive element that I'd want him to be aware of like the world that he inhabits especially if I'm not here anymore
So, there's a great line in the, in, in Lyndon, in Robert Carr's book, Work, which is, again, talks about his process of, you know, being the greatest living biographer, but also talks about his two people he's dedicated his life to studying, which is Robert Moses and Lyndon Johnson. And he talked about, he was interviewing all these people.
So, there's a great line in the, in, in Lyndon, in Robert Carr's book, Work, which is, again, talks about his process of, you know, being the greatest living biographer, but also talks about his two people he's dedicated his life to studying, which is Robert Moses and Lyndon Johnson. And he talked about, he was interviewing all these people.
And, you know, Lyndon Johnson's born in unbelievable poverty in the Texas Hill Country. And he gets to, as a young man, he's probably in his early 20s, something like that. And he gets to the position of power where he wants to be or where he eventually going. He's just working in Washington, D.C. He has no power yet. and they were talking about, I'm just going to read this to you.
And, you know, Lyndon Johnson's born in unbelievable poverty in the Texas Hill Country. And he gets to, as a young man, he's probably in his early 20s, something like that. And he gets to the position of power where he wants to be or where he eventually going. He's just working in Washington, D.C. He has no power yet. and they were talking about, I'm just going to read this to you.
He goes, I wasn't fully understanding what these people were telling me about the depth of Lyndon Johnson's determination. That is really why I'd want my son to read the book, because it describes the depth of his determination, how determined you can be.
He goes, I wasn't fully understanding what these people were telling me about the depth of Lyndon Johnson's determination. That is really why I'd want my son to read the book, because it describes the depth of his determination, how determined you can be.
About the frantic urgency, the desperation to get ahead and to get ahead fast, and that the passions and the ambitions that he brought, and about the passions and ambitions he brought to Washington, strong though they were, were somehow intensified by the fact that he was finally there in the place where he'd always wanted to be. This is how I feel about podcasting. This is
About the frantic urgency, the desperation to get ahead and to get ahead fast, and that the passions and the ambitions that he brought, and about the passions and ambitions he brought to Washington, strong though they were, were somehow intensified by the fact that he was finally there in the place where he'd always wanted to be. This is how I feel about podcasting. This is
If you listen to the episode I did on this book, on Robert Caro's work, if you want to listen to this after we talk, it's not about Lyndon Johnson. I realized that's about me. That podcast is about me. Just using Lyndon Johnson as a way to tell that story. So he says, I wanted to show the contrast between what he was coming from, the poverty, the insecurity, and what he was trying for.
If you listen to the episode I did on this book, on Robert Caro's work, if you want to listen to this after we talk, it's not about Lyndon Johnson. I realized that's about me. That podcast is about me. Just using Lyndon Johnson as a way to tell that story. So he says, I wanted to show the contrast between what he was coming from, the poverty, the insecurity, and what he was trying for.
And so what would happen is, one of Lyndon Johnson's people that's working in the office with him would see him every morning just running, full fled, like 5.30 in the morning. And I'm going to read this section to you real quick. She goes, as Lyndon Johnson came up Capitol Hill in the morning, he would be running No one else was running, okay? He's not out for a jog.
And so what would happen is, one of Lyndon Johnson's people that's working in the office with him would see him every morning just running, full fled, like 5.30 in the morning. And I'm going to read this section to you real quick. She goes, as Lyndon Johnson came up Capitol Hill in the morning, he would be running No one else was running, okay? He's not out for a jog.
He's in a fucking suit, okay? The woman who worked with him coming to work in the morning would see this gangling figure running awkwardly, arms flapping, past the long row of columns on his way to the house office building. At first, because it was winter and she knew that he only owned a thin top coat, she thought he was running because he was cold. But in spring, the weather turned warm.
He's in a fucking suit, okay? The woman who worked with him coming to work in the morning would see this gangling figure running awkwardly, arms flapping, past the long row of columns on his way to the house office building. At first, because it was winter and she knew that he only owned a thin top coat, she thought he was running because he was cold. But in spring, the weather turned warm.
And still, whenever she saw Lyndon Johnson coming up Capitol Hill, he would be running. Well, of course he was running. From the land of dog-run cabins to this, everything he had ever wanted, everything he had ever hoped for was there. It's a beautiful writing. And it's like, and that's just an excerpt from the book. The entire section is incredible.
And still, whenever she saw Lyndon Johnson coming up Capitol Hill, he would be running. Well, of course he was running. From the land of dog-run cabins to this, everything he had ever wanted, everything he had ever hoped for was there. It's a beautiful writing. And it's like, and that's just an excerpt from the book. The entire section is incredible.
And so I think, again, Lyndon Johnson, in many ways, a very flawed person. I would not want my son to turn out like him, but I think reading about his life story and understanding the levels of determination would be good. So, so far I have Against the Odds, Means of Ascent, Wright Brothers, fourth book that I want my son to read. Lessons of History, Will and Eric Durant. Very good.
And so I think, again, Lyndon Johnson, in many ways, a very flawed person. I would not want my son to turn out like him, but I think reading about his life story and understanding the levels of determination would be good. So, so far I have Against the Odds, Means of Ascent, Wright Brothers, fourth book that I want my son to read. Lessons of History, Will and Eric Durant. Very good.
Biography, 100-page biography of the human species written by the greatest, when were they alive, 20th century historians?
Biography, 100-page biography of the human species written by the greatest, when were they alive, 20th century historians?
Yeah, dedicated 50 years of their life literally just talking about what human nature is, what our history is, and then they did this ridiculous goal, which they even said was ridiculous when they did it, but it turned out beautifully, to essentially summarize what they spent half a century learning.
Yeah, dedicated 50 years of their life literally just talking about what human nature is, what our history is, and then they did this ridiculous goal, which they even said was ridiculous when they did it, but it turned out beautifully, to essentially summarize what they spent half a century learning.
And, uh, yeah, I think reading that book and rereading it over and over again is unbelievably important. Have you read the, or even any book within the bigger series?
And, uh, yeah, I think reading that book and rereading it over and over again is unbelievably important. Have you read the, or even any book within the bigger series?
uh the last one uh napoleon the eight it's not the last one it's like the the 10th or 11th age of napoleon the age of napoleon yeah no i have in fact i i got somebody had shipped it to me and there wasn't a note and it was just like the entire it was like the heaviest thing ever i found out later on who did it but it's like not even a note here this is incredible but yeah i have every single one of those books in the living room well david thanks so much for taking the time i really do i appreciate it is there anything else that we didn't talk about that we should have talked about
uh the last one uh napoleon the eight it's not the last one it's like the the 10th or 11th age of napoleon the age of napoleon yeah no i have in fact i i got somebody had shipped it to me and there wasn't a note and it was just like the entire it was like the heaviest thing ever i found out later on who did it but it's like not even a note here this is incredible but yeah i have every single one of those books in the living room well david thanks so much for taking the time i really do i appreciate it is there anything else that we didn't talk about that we should have talked about
No, we should do this every once in a while. I enjoyed it.
No, we should do this every once in a while. I enjoyed it.
Good luck to you and your wife, man. God bless you and the new baby. Just, again, super happy for you and super, super envious.
Good luck to you and your wife, man. God bless you and the new baby. Just, again, super happy for you and super, super envious.
So I want to consider this conversation like a continuation of the conversation we had last year in New York.
It was by far the most impactful conversation I had the entire year.
It is in large part the reason we're sitting down and actually recording this conversation.
And what I loved was I thought about how the advice you gave and the stories you told really fundamentally changed my approach to my work and then also like my philosophy of how I'm living my life.
And because you – it's very rare.
Like this year I'm going to hit over 400 biographies read for the podcast, right?
And somebody asked me recently, it's like, do you ever uncover new ideas?
It's like, no, I feel like I'm telling the same story, the same personality type over and over and over again.
And you'll get a new idea or a novel idea.
Every once in a while, but certainly not all the time.
But you shared something at the dinner that was a truly novel idea.
And then a few months later, I read this interview and I was like, oh, I'm not the only one that Daniel's advice changed the career.
So I'm going to read something.
There was an interview given by the CEO of Uber, who's in front of yours, Dara.
And I'm going to read this excerpt, which was absolutely perfect.
And he was talking about...
contemplating, should I take this job or not?
Like this is a huge opportunity, but also like kind of scary.
And this is tied to your idea that you should optimize for impact over happiness.
I haven't heard anybody else articulate that.
And so Dara says, I was reading about all the issues happening with Uber in the news, the various challenges that were coming up there.
So when I first got the call to be the CEO, I said, heck no, I'm not crazy.
But I had one particular conversation that really shifted me, which was with Daniel Eck, who's a good friend.
And I still remember I was talking to him about my career at Expedia and how happy I was.
And he looks at me, and he did this to me too.
And he looks at me and he goes, since when is life about happiness?
You can have an impact on Uber, which is a really important company in the world that's shaping the future of cities.
And I thought to myself, my God, this is so obvious.
I knew it was going to be uncomfortable.
Can you just explain how you think about optimizing for impact over happiness and why?
Did somebody do that for you?
Did somebody tell you to optimize for impact over happiness, or is this just the way you work?
One of the things I admire most about Daniel Ek is his relentless dedication to improving his craft and to improving his product.
It's a mission that he's still on nearly two decades later.
It'd be impossible to argue that Spotify isn't one of the most well-crafted products ever created.
And Daniel and his team's dedication to constantly improving their product reminds me a lot of my friend Kareem, who's the co-founder and CTO of Ramp.
Kareem is one of the greatest technical minds working in finance.
I spend a lot of time talking to Kareem and every single conversation centers around his obsession with crafting a high quality product and using the latest technology to constantly create better experiences for his customers.
Kareem and Daniel both believe that nothing is ever good enough and that everything can always be improved.
Kareem is running one of the most talented technical teams in finance and they use rapid, relentless iteration to make their product better every day.
So far this year, Ramp has shipped over 300 new features.
Ramp is completely committed to using AI to make a better experience for their customers and automate as much of your business's finances as possible.
In fact, Kareem just wrote this, AI is all I think about these days.
So you can use your time and energy building great things for your customers.
Because at the end of the day, that is what this is all about.
Building a product or service that makes someone else's life better.
That is what I'm trying to do.
That is what Daniel Ek has dedicated his life to doing.
And that is what Ramp has done too.
Get started today by going to ramp.com.
You mentioned you thought some people don't go for impact because they're content.
When was the last time – like you're definitely not content now, right?
So I've gotten to know you once.
We've talked for hours and hours and hours, and this is why I wanted you to be the first person I had this conversation with.
And I was curious if you could say that.
I know you have this like inner burning desire and fire inside of you, which is –
To me, your outside is like you're very calm, you're very articulate, and you're very polite.
But you have that like – the same thing I read in these books all the time.
It's just like this person had a burning desire to achieve mission success is the way I think about it.
Were you content after you sold your first company?
Well, content is the right word.
Were you depressed when you don't have your company anymore?
You have the number you thought it was going to take you, you know, until four decades to reach.
You're realizing these people aren't my friends.
They don't care about me at all.
There's no impact I'm making on the world.
I'm not producing anything.
This is something I talk about all the time.
Like I think sometimes we have a sick culture where like people, especially on social media, they glorify like consumption.
I don't care what you consume.
You should be proud, not that you have money to buy an expensive thing.
Because the way I think about this all the time, which is always fascinating, how many times this comes up in the biographies and for hundreds of years, people constantly think like, oh, we've reached the end.
There's no more opportunity.
And every single time humans keep saying, it's like, we can't, this is gonna be the last company.
This is gonna be the last technological shift.
It's gonna be the last invention.
And the best description of a business I've ever heard came from Richard Branson.
And he said, all a business is, is an idea that makes somebody else's life better.
And if you look at it like that, it's like then you have infinite possibilities and opportunities all the time because there's infinite small and large ways to make other people's lives better.
You weren't at that time making anybody else's life better.
You were just kind of consuming.
Would you consider yourself depressed?
What would you consider yourself –
This is another thing that drives me insane because I hear other people's advice to entrepreneurs, which I hate.
We shouldn't have an entrepreneurial ecosystem.
Especially because most of the media that entrepreneurs are consuming are actually from investors and you have wildly different incentive structure and everything else.
And it just conflicts with a lot of stuff that's in the biographies.
And I'll just go with those guys or anybody else, right?
And they're always just like, yeah, you know, my belief is something that I repeat on this maximum, that belief comes before ability.
It's in these stories every single time you have somebody, like I just reread the autobiography of the founder of Sony.
Akio at the time was, we're going to start this company in 1946.
That's occupied by the Americans.
That is completely, has been firebombed.
He's passing, he's going to work and he's passing just burnt out rubble, millions of homes of Japanese.
More than half the population has left the city.
They start what turns out to be Sony, which is one of the most successful and influential companies of all time in a burned out department store.
One of my favorite anecdotes in the book is the,
they need to have umbrellas on their desks because when it rains, it comes through the roof.
And yet in his book, he says, I don't have a problem saying, even then I knew I had potential and I could be great and I could do great things.
He had the belief before the ability.
You said, I don't even know it was called entrepreneurship and I'm starting to build things.
And this is the question I have for you.
When did you know you were good?
This is like something I'm super passionate about because, you know, if you really think about like, they don't write biographies about people that like start, scale, sell a company and do it for like five years.
I'm not interested in that.
I don't like, I mean, I'm not interested in your startup.
I'm interested in your last company.
I'm interested in something you're going to do for the rest of your life.
And this is what I draw inspiration off of.
It's just like going back to what you said earlier about impact and contentment and how like you're willing to go into an area where it's like, you know, it's difficult.
I love what Jeff Bezos said on this.
He's just like, he was, he tells the people, he used to tell people in Amazon at the very beginning, he's like, we're trying to build something that we can be proud of, something that we can tell our grandkids about.
Anything that you're going to be proud to tell your grandkids about is not going to be easy.
So we're going into this with, you know, he gave himself like a 30% chance of success.
I think it began with Spotify.
You know, you're guys like, hey, we're going to, I might have to get a job after this, but I have to do this.
there's a bunch of people that say the reason they joined Spotify in the early days is because Daniel would teach us and tell us that he's building for the long term.
So there had to be acquisition offers early on.
And did you ever consider them?
Is that connected to what you were saying earlier that you might be a better, you think you might be a better coach than player?
We were texting back and forth about this.
So we should just talk about this now so we don't forget.
We were talking about like, maybe we should talk about like the archetypes, different archetypes of entrepreneurs, because like there could be, you know, there could be somebody like a young, there's undoubtedly a young Daniel Ack out there, right?
We just know that that's going to happen.
I'm slightly obsessed with Michael Jordan.
He's the lock screen on my phone.
So when people like, they start texting me, it's like Michael Jordan with his eyes like this, like I'm kind of setting the tone.
And he said this great thing because, you know, at the end of his career is the rise of Kobe Bryant.
And everybody's, towards the end of his career, they were like obsessed.
He's going to be the next Michael Jordan.
And this guy's going to be the next Michael Jordan.
This guy's the next Michael Jordan.
And he's like, you don't have to worry about finding the next Michael Jordan.
He goes, first of all, you didn't find me.
I just happened to come along.
And that will happen again.
You don't have to find the next person.
And I always say they will reveal themselves.
So I do think this is fascinating.
And no one else talks about this.
Again, the weird thing about talking to you, and I don't mean that in a pejorative.
It's like you just say stuff that no one else says.
And then I'm like, why isn't, why don't more people understand, like know about Daniel's very unique ideas?
Like no one's concerned about the archetypes.
I was like, oh, we just have to be like Steve Jobs.
You just have to be like Elon.
And your point is like, no, there's like multiple different archetypes.
Obviously, like I've studied this maybe more than anybody else in the world.
It's very clear that there are.
And yet they're all kind of like narrowly focused on this is the one path.
And me and you went over this back and forth before.
It's just like, it's so ridiculous to say like there is, this is the way founders should run their company because you said it back in 2021 in that series and Spotify, we've had conversations like this.
This is something I always say.
It's like, it's tied to the personality of founder.
Like the advice is fucking useless unless it's tied to who you are as a person.
Spotify is a reflection of you.
Now, I do want to talk also about this other great idea that you gave me and that now I heard Jeff Bezos echo recently about the fact that there's similarities between like the way your child develops and the way a company develops.
That was very fascinating.
But where are you like – explain why you would even want to broach the subject of like talking more about the different founder archetypes.
So I don't want, again, this is more of a conversation interview because I'm a terrible interviewer and I love to talk.
I do a monologue show for God's sake.
But I had this theory too, because it's obvious in the books, like there's this like myth.
It's like of like the genius young entrepreneur.
And if you go and read all the biographies, they weren't like laying about doing nothing when they were younger.
But I, it's very clear if you look at all of them,
Steve Jobs, Enzo Ferrari, Akira Morita, Sam Walton, Estee Lauder, Coco Chanel, Edwin Land.
They do their best work when they're much older.
And so I thought a lot about them.
I'm like, dang, this is like a reoccurring theme over and over again.
Some cases are in their 40s, 50 years old, and they're at the top of their game.
And then, you know, I was wondering, like, what is this?
Okay, well, obviously, like, it is some skill set so you can, like, practice more.
You have more experience so then you can make better decisions.
But one thing that I believe that I cannot prove, but I believe with every bone in my body, it's like because they knew themselves much more.
Think about the way you know yourself in your early 40s than you did when you were 23.
It's like we thought when we were 23, you don't know anything.
Even the most brilliant 23-year-old does not know themselves.
That comes through time and experience.
And it's like, no, no, no.
This is something I learned from Michael Dell's autobiography, which was excellent.
I used to say it's like they build a company that's authentic to them.
He also – the way he says it, they build a company that's natural to them.
And you can't build a company that's natural to you if you don't know who you are.
And so I have this belief that's like – and I think like your accomplishments are freaking crazy.
And I know you like to downplay them and it's just because you're very polite and everything else.
I was watching this funny interview with you and –
they mentioned something like, you're the most successful person to ever come out of Scandinavia.
And your face, your words were very polite, but your face, it's like somebody poked you.
You're like, oh, I don't want to be described that way.
But your response was like, I know that face.
I know exactly what you said.
you are the sum of like your accumulated experiences, right?
That is one form of education, but the form of education is like, I know I went to your house, I rummaged through your library, maybe kind of rudely, but I loved how you're obsessed with history and philosophy too.
And I was like, oh, this is a person that's, he's curious about the external world, but he also wants to know like who he is, what's important to him.
And then building a business and like an apparatus around that.
So I just wanted to get that out because you mentioned something like, I don't think, I should probably talk about more frequently, but something I definitely believe is like, you're going to get better at entrepreneurship when you get better at knowing who you are and what you actually want to do.
I would say there's a very interesting idea that I've noticed.
You know, obviously, like, there's this maxim I say over and over again that all of history's greatest entrepreneurs study history's greatest entrepreneurs.
And if you make a podcast on that, you get to meet the living versions of that now.
And what I'm struck by, and I'm like this myself, I have all kinds of blind spots, which you, like,
picked away the first time we had dinner and you're just like, you're doing this wrong.
And you were very polite, but just like, you're lying to yourself.
You're not like, you know, you're, you're obsessed with this and you're like fighting with a hand.
We had time at it back, but I'm so amazed.
It's exactly what you said.
It's like, it's almost like they need a mirror.
So there's another great idea.
that I've seen a few times, one of the truly novel idea.
It's this idea of hiring a paid critic.
So Sony is making, you know, audio equipment.
This is like, and they're very primitive devices.
And what they realized was they hired a young vocal arts student.
And I don't know how to pronounce his name.
It's Naria Oga or something like that.
And the reason they did that is because he was a fan of early Sony products.
But he also had very fine, refined taste and everything else.
And so he would just light them up about-
He's like, I'm a big fan of Sony, but your products aren't good enough.
You have all these deficiencies.
And Akio, being the genius that he was, he goes, we hired him as a paid critic.
His job was to attack the deficiencies in our product because we don't even see them.
And the paid critic, his point was that, hey, if you're a ballet dancer, you have a mirror.
Your mirror tells you what you're doing right, what you can fix, what you need to do.
He's like, I'm your oral mirror.
And then fast forward to when the book is published in 1986.
That paid critic is now the president of Sony.
And I feel exactly – I'm this way.
It's like we need a mirror.
And I think what I'm curious about with you is like I remember I just had dinner with Mike Ovitz.
And, you know, I think his autobiography is one of the best entrepreneur autobiographies ever written because he tells you about the bad shit.
The fact that he didn't like who he was.
He was doing this – making bad decisions based on the opinions of other people, which entrepreneurs cannot do.
And I was struck by, like, the fact that he didn't know himself at, you know, 25.
I think he was 27 when he started CA.
Sure as hell knows himself as, like, almost an 80-year-old man.
But I asked him about – you know, he's had some people I know have been friends with him for 25 years.
what do you think has enabled you to maintain that relationship?
And he said, he tells me the truth.
And he's like, you get into my position where he's famous, he's wealthy,
most of the people that he interacts with are on his staff.
And he's like, it's very dangerous.
And he said, he's like, there's not many people in my life that tell me the truth.
Munger, again, like I literally get emails every week.
They're like, why do you mention Charlie Munger on every episode?
I'm like, because he's the wisest person I've ever come across.
What do you want me to do?
Like, I'm sorry he has so many good ideas.
But he said something again, and he's another person where he like points things out that once he says it, it's obvious, but no one else does it.
And he goes, trust is one of the greatest economic forces in the world.
And he talked about that, like, your job, when I actually got to have dinner with him, he's like, your job is to build a seamless web of deserved trust with great people.
And he's like, that's not any, he was telling stories, like, everybody knows that, you know, I met Buffett when I was, when he was 28 and I was 35.
They don't understand there was all these other guys around us.
And we built friendships and did deals forever.
Most of them had passed away by the time I met him.
But that idea, it's like trust is one of the greatest economic forces in the world.
Are you a trusting person though?
I think that's one that like from what people that know me.
So I have actually had breakfast with a good friend of mine and, you know, he's slightly older, but he tells me the truth and he is very nice, but he'll point out the problems that like are going to stop me from going to where I want to go.
And one of his points, because I would answer like if I asked that question myself, I was like, I don't trust anybody.
I think I'm getting a little better with that, but I am concerned that I'm going to be one of my own worst enemies because of this, like, I can't let go.
The sad part of this, I can't think of anybody that's like betrayed me in like two decades.
So it's like I'm just making up this problem, this imaginary problem that maybe used to exist but certainly doesn't exist now.
And this is where I think it's really like helpful to – again, I don't need a bunch.
I don't believe – there's a great –
quote from the founder of Red Bull, who I became slightly obsessed with.
And I'm really proud of the episode I made on him because like we had to literally translate.
There was no biographies in English and we had translated a biography from German.
And his point was just like, I don't need 50 friends.
Like I believe in much like fewer and better and deeper.
And as long as you make those like choices correctly, you know, again, like I can't think of a single person that I feel is in my life that doesn't want the best for me.
And yet I still have this like, oh, like I'll just do it all myself.
Another thing that like you said, that really surprised me is like when people ask me, they're like, obviously know who Daniel is.
I know everything going on, but like, why do you talk about him so much?
And I like mentioned you on the podcast and like, I was like, Oh, because I learned a lot from you.
You're very, very careful what you want in life.
Like, and I get to meet pretty crazy people and like,
most of the times like it's they're great but then you see like there's like a lot of negativity to them one there's a shocking amount that have very few if no friends yeah which is scary to me and then they kind of like interact with you as if like you're like a
asset and once i suck that asset like get everything out of the asset then like you will be disposed and i feel the same people that do that have almost no intellectual humility right where i always say it's like every single person i read about is smarter and more productive than i am the way i look at this the world in general is very much in the same way like thomas edison has this great quote he's like we know what we don't know one one thousandth of percent of anything yeah and that's the way i feel it's because every day i learn something new i'm like yeah i'm gonna be i was so stupid back then
You have extreme levels of intellectual humility.
I don't even know if many people know this, but like you would like go in shadow and spend time.
I don't know if you have a term for this.
You just like call up somebody that's running a company and say, what, I'm going to come and sit on every single one of your meetings.
Let me just set the table for this real quick.
The way you put it to me, like, I'll go get them their coffee.
I'm there to learn from them.
If I need to go get their coffee, I'll go get their coffee.
Like, I think that's the right...
But I don't think anybody would believe somebody running, you know, a hundred billion dollar company and has done the things that you've done.
Like I'll shout at this guy and like, I'll do whatever I need to do.
I think you're dead right about this.
The way I would think about like your archetype is I think you nailed it with like –
coach and then you'll hear people inside Spotify say it's like very, you have a very collaborative like management style where I don't think anybody is going to describe Steve Jobs as collaborative.
Now he was able to collaborate, but at the end, like he was, it was kind of like, I'm making all the decisions.
There's actually an interesting story.
I'm curious how you think about this.
Like how do you balance like the decisions you make specifically on like product, right?
your own personal taste and intuition versus like being metrics driven.
There's this hilarious story.
It's in two different books.
One's in this book called Creative Selection, which is excellent.
It's about this guy from this guy named Ken Kosienda, who was a programmer.
He demoed to Steve many, many times and like when they were building their best products, right?
And then there's another one story in Johnny Ives biography.
And they talked – they were comparing and contrasting the way, like, Google would make products versus how Apple did when Steve Jobs was in charge.
And, you know, the guy's like, hey, you know, at Google, we have to decide between, like, blue and light blue.
And we run, like, 200 tests of, like, all the different shades in between that.
And Johnny's like, we would never, ever do that.
Do you remember – you were old enough to remember this –
They create the iMac, but like the big fat bubble one.
You know, probably like late 90s.
And it was the first time there was going to be all these like crazy colors and everything else.
He's like, you know how we chose the colors?
He's like, me and Steve went to the design, like the Apple Design Center, and we talked about it.
And 30 minutes later, the colors you saw, we shipped.
Where are you on like that spectrum?
They describe this as like sonar, how dolphins like, they like throw things out and then they, it might be a crazy idea.
And then it reflects back to them and they use it as like a form of education.
But the hilarious one is they couldn't figure out what they were going to call what turns into the iMac.
He was obsessed with the Qmarina and Sony.
He goes, I have the name for this computer.
It's going to be the Mac man.
And people around him were like, no, please don't do that.
And he was like, this is terrible.
And they kept meeting after meeting.
He's like, Steve, this thing sucks.
And they give him a bunch of lists.
And then the first time he hears iMac, he's like, don't like it at all.
And then they're like, well, we really like it.
So we'll put it in the next group.
And then we'll put the third one down.
And then he goes, now I don't hate it.
And then one day he's walking in the hall.
He's like, I came up with the name.
The best leaders in business are able to spot patterns, but you can't spot patterns if you can't see your data.
And most businesses are only using 20% of their data because 80% of your customer intelligence is invisible, hidden in emails, transcripts, and conversations.
HubSpot is where all of your data comes together so you can see the patterns that matter.
Because when you know more, you grow more.
And that is a pattern that never fails.
Are there any product updates that get pushed live that you didn't like?
I think this is a good opportunity to talk about another one of your very unique ideas.
There was this excellent – I just did this episode on Jeff Bezos because he doesn't give that many interviews.
And so I would take a transcript of his interviews and treat it like a book and just go through it.
And he said something like from day one, he knew like he wanted to build a company that could outlast him.
And it was very reminiscent of like what we're trying to do as parents where it's like you're shaping your kid, but you're only successful if they can survive without you.
And when I heard him say that, it was a few months after you had beautifully like articulated this idea.
It's just like, well, I think there's a lot of –
You're going to say better than I did, but essentially like there is a very rather clear analogy between the way your child when they're first born is essentially like a product of you.
They're going to mimic their parents, their environment that they're in.
But as they grow older and older, I just went through this and I have a 13 year old.
You know, when she was much smaller, she's much like me and her mom, right?
And then now she's like, she's got traits that I don't even have.
And her own decisions and like doing things maybe I would do or I would not do.
And you're like, it's kind of the same for the company.
And you had this idea where like, I think at the time Spotify was 19 years old or it's 19 or 20 years old.
And it's just like, well, you know, year one or two, it is me.
It's like the same way you have a two-year-old.
But now there's characteristics that emerge from within the company that are separate from the founder.
That's like a fascinating insight.
This is the criticism of founders and the podcasts and the books.
They're like, but he's not telling me what to do.
It's like, this is not a podcast for people that want to be told what to do.
It's here's how this guy or this woman thought about their company.
This is what they experienced.
I love how you kept saying don't take it literally.
I've told you this before.
I drive people crazy because I tend to turn everything into an abstraction.
So when I hear you, I've sent this message to you where you're like,
You kind of remind me of James J. Hill, which just might be the only person to ever text you this.
And James J. Hill was the most successful railroad baron of all time.
And I just thought the way – you just said the way he built – he essentially was laying railroad tracks, right?
And the goal of the company was obviously we're going to have goods and people on the tracks.
But this alone is how do I make what I'm doing more valuable?
And he's the only railroad founder ever.
in American history to not go bankrupt.
What he realizes is like, he has to spend just as much, if not more time developing and nurturing the communities that are springing up around it.
And if he builds these communities around it, that makes his railroad more valuable.
But I love this criticism because it's like, oh, you got to find a different show or you got to find a different thing because entrepreneurs don't want to be told what to do.
I've never met an entrepreneur.
It's like, give me a list.
It's a profession for people that don't take direction very well.
It's hilarious about this.
I think this is tied to something also that is very fascinating with you.
is you have a high, and most people, again, like the, I think the more control you have over your life, the more success you have.
People make the mistake of like eliminating any people telling the truth, any inconvenience.
They become like really brittle.
You have an insane high tolerance for crazy people.
Somebody told me, somebody works closely with you, that you judge people on their best idea, not their worst.
And I just finished rereading Jim Simons, founder of Renaissance Technologies.
Creator of a magic money machine is really what I think about the guy.
And they said something very similar.
They're like, it doesn't matter.
He's like, if there's a single good idea in your pile of horse manure, like he'll find it.
All he cares about is the very best ideas.
He will willing to go through 99 shitty ideas to get the very best because he understands how powerful those are.
Can you explain like how you develop this tolerance?
Because most people, like especially as companies age too, you know, you're built, usually you have a lot of variance in the beginning.
And then they get more successful and they kind of, they make the, corporations make the mistake of like, no, we need like, we need all the edges.
We need the high and the low out of there.
The way you put it to me when we were talking about this is like high temperature people.
One of your oldest friends texted me the other day, and it was a screenshot of this episode I did with Chung Ju Young, who's the founder of Hyundai.
And it's probably the most – I think it is the most inspiring autobiography I read because the guy writes the book when he's like 90.
And he grows up the son of a poor farmer.
They had to eat tree bark to survive.
The richest person in South Korea builds this huge conglomerate.
I thought I was going to read a book about a guy making cars.
I didn't realize that was like nothing.
He was building – did all the construction, built some of the biggest ships in the world.
Like he was just – his nickname was the bulldozer.
And the reason he sent me the screenshot in a specific part of the podcast, he's like, this is just like Daniel.
And one thing that Chung would talk about is as the more you progress in your career, the bigger the company gets, the more like rigid it gets.
They go from like default optimistic, default risk-taking to –
Like, no, we're not doing that.
Like we're a tiny little, you know, island.
And he goes, Daniel gives me the same exact advice where he will say something.
And he goes, but did you even try?
And I go, and then he goes, it's related to his ability.
If you actually analyze his willingness to go into all these different industries where he doesn't know anything about the industry.
Let me read the full quote because it's an excellent quote too.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world.
The unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
You told me a funny story one time about how committed you are to your work and your friends and others about you that sometimes you'll be in the middle of a dinner and then like an idea comes to mind or something you need to pursue and they just know, oh, he's gone and he's not coming back tonight.
That is an unreasonable – people are like, oh, I can't do that.
I even – sometimes I find myself doing this because we're both introverts.
We've talked about this before, but like I kept getting invited to group dinners, and I just felt like, oh, this is like a prestigious group dinner.
This person is really successful.
People would love this opportunity.
And so at the beginning when I first started doing this, I started going.
I don't, I remember one time it was in a private room and they shut the doors.
And within like five minutes, I knew I was like, I got to get out of here.
I'm going to pretend to go to the bathroom and just never go back.
And I was like, so I stand up and go, oh, where's the restroom?
Like, it's right in the room.
And what I did, which I wouldn't do today, is I sat down and I wasted an hour and a half of my time instead of just being the unreasonable man.
Like, I'm now going to say like, what would Daniel do?
He would get our avoid the dinner in the first place.
The obsession with morning rituals is stupid.
Like if I can have a superpower, I always say like I like to fly.
The first thing is I want to fly like Superman.
If I can't do that, I just want sustained high energy levels 24-7.
Because I need a ton of sleep, and I felt bad about this because the same exact reason you're describing.
It's like people are like, no, you've got to get up at 4.30 or you've got to sleep less or sleep faster.
You've got to sleep faster.
And then I'm reading James Dyson's first autobiography.
I made one of the most successful companies of all time.
He's still doing it at 76 years old.
And he goes, I need a hell of a lot of sleep.
10 hours a night, or my entire next day is ruined.
I'm like, wait a minute, this guy built, he's a single shareholder of a multi, multi, multi-billion dollar company, built some of the best products in the world, and he's sleeping 10 hours a day.
You just said, there are no rules.
Uh, I, you know, there's, there's actually something.
So, uh, I text a mutual friend of ours, Patrick Bishanasi, and I was like, I'm talking to Daniel and Patrick, I think he's asked the best questions in the world.
And so obviously I need to like use like phone a friend for, for, uh, one lifeline.
Um, and he's a good mirror too.
Because like he, it's almost like a therapy session.
Like he'll be very quiet, doesn't like tension himself.
And yet he'll like hit you with a question.
Like, I didn't even think about that.
And he has this great way to describe you.
Cause my guess is that like, not even guess, I'm pretty, I think you're obsessive, like learning and understanding the world around you.
And like that drives like a huge part of what you're doing and this exploration and you can build companies around the stuff you're interested in.
And that's kind of like this compounding learning machine.
But he goes, out of everyone I know,
Daniel has the ability to apply what he learns the fastest at the highest level.
And this was actually related to a conversation that we had at your house, which was fascinating.
Because, again, I know you don't like public adulation.
I'm still going to do it because I think it's fascinating, where it's like everybody focuses on Spotify, which is a marvelous achievement that very few people on the planet have been able to experience.
And yet they like also, because it's not really talked about, it's like all this other success that you're having outside of this too, because you have this like, you're very curious about things.
And now you have a network and knowledge and resources that you can actually impact and try to make the world a better place.
And you're not going after easy shit by any means, which I also admire about you.
It goes back to the impact over happiness thing.
And so we're talking about this and I'm like,
Were you, because usually true interest is revealed early.
So if we go and look at your life story, just like people are like, oh, what hobbies do you have?
I was like that when I was five.
I wasn't like five years old.
What's a good hobby for my future self-development?
It's like, no, I just like reading.
I like books better than people in general.
And so you see that in your early life, like you're starting companies and you didn't even know it was a company.
It's just like trying to do something.
So I was like, oh, you must be like,
like you must've been interested in like investing forever.
And you're like, no, I never even thought about it until 2018.
And you said the funniest thing, you know, how did you learn about it?
He goes, I started listening to Patrick's podcast.
And then I'd hear an idea of like, that's a good idea.
Oh, I don't like that idea.
And then I started reading books and then you're just literally taught yourself.
You weren't interested at all.
And now you're essentially world-class at it in a very short amount of time.
And this is just the face again.
How, like, you think about this, where it's, like, I always say learning is not memorizing information.
Learning is changing your behavior.
And I think if I thought of anybody else I know that personifies that, it's, like, you.
It's, like, I'm not just, like, listening to this podcast for shits and giggles.
I'm not reading this book, even if you find it enjoyable.
Like, I'm looking to, like, apply this.
This is why I think these conversations are important to have because, like, you are the personality type that I've read about.
It's just, like, now instead of reading about you when you're 80 or dead, you're, like, in the middle of it.
So it's very fascinating to me because I'm, like, trying to balance, like, my understanding of this through reading with, like, an actual person.
Where it's just, like, most of the people, they're not like, I'm starting a company for company's sake.
This is what I would say about entrepreneurs.
It's the best job in the world.
I don't understand the people that give it up.
I hate even saying this because I like...
Rule number two in the center family, right, is what I teach my kids is mind your own business.
So it's like I don't – I think you're very similar.
It's like I don't have any suggestions on how you should live your life.
Like if we're friends, we can talk and go back and forth.
It's like I just mind my own business.
But sometimes like I just – I don't have any other way.
Like I meet so many entrepreneurs and they're like, I sold my company.
I'm like, sorry to hear that.
I'm like, why would you get out of the game?
And then they sell their company and then you go be a VC.
This is the best game in the world.
It's not like sports where like you can get better with time.
You can build your own world.
If you think about what we were doing in the computer with SimCity, it's like, oh, look, I'll put a highway there.
You get to control who's around you, what are the rules in the world that happens, what's the outcome of the people in the world.
And hopefully you're doing it for benevolent and good reasons, where I do think one of my favorite quotes or maxims from the history of entrepreneurship is,
comes from Henry Ford, where he's like, money comes naturally as a result of service.
And the crazy thing about Henry Ford is by 1919, he owned 100%, because he bought out his investors, of one of the most valuable companies in the world, and he didn't do it to start a company.
I've read 10 books on this guy, and people knew him forever.
He's like, he had one idea.
It's kind of weird that we're putting together cars.
He was obsessed with machinery and essentially outsourcing human labor to machines.
Started on the farm, right?
I want to build a car for the everyman.
You said something very... In the early days of Spotify, I was like, I have this goal of, you know, this celestial jukebox or whatever the case is.
And you said at the very... I don't know how I'm going to do it.
But I learned how to do it.
How can I make a car cheaper?
Sure as hell can't put it by hand.
So we've got to learn how to mass produce something we don't know how to do yet.
And that took him a decade and a half of failure or whatever.
And then what happens is he didn't start the company to make money, but he made millions of people's lives better.
He changed the geography of the world, for God's sake.
And as a result, money came naturally as a result of service.
What did you say earlier too?
You're like – I forgot how you phrased it, but in my mind when I interpreted what you said, it's this idea of not being a go-getter but being a go-giver.
You're saying something like the more problems you solve, the more it comes back to you?
I keep saying you think like Bezos.
So there's a great line here.
Same thing where he says, I'm reading his shareholder letters for the fourth time.
And it's like, these are so good and so clear and concise.
I should read them every year.
And I was like, I feel like I just read them.
I haven't read them since the end of 2022.
But there's all these stories in Bezos' early career where people on Amazon would come to him with a huge problem.
They thought maybe they'd get fired.
Because he's like, oh, great.
Like we had a problem we didn't even know.
If we solve this, our company gets even more valuable.
There's this guy named Henry Kaiser who was as famous in his day as maybe like an Elon is today.
And he built 100 companies.
One of them still exists, Kaiser Permanente.
He built the Liberty Ships in World War II.
And he has this great maxim that like people would come to him and they'd be all depressed and he'd be excited.
And they're like, what the hell is going on here, Henry?
And he goes, problems are just opportunities and workflows.
This is a great way to think about it.
It's like, if I can solve this problem for other people, I make other people's lives better.
I make the company more valuable.
I read something Jeff Bezos said that changed my perspective on the importance of high quality sleep.
He said that he makes sure he gets eight hours of sleep a night.
And as a result, his mood, his energy, and his decision making is improved.
His point was that you get paid to make high quality decisions and you can't do that if you're sleeping terribly.
And the product that has made the biggest impact on my quality of sleep for years is Eight Sleep.
I'm lucky enough to be friends with the founder of Eight Sleep, Mateo, and we live in the same city.
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And my friend replied, he looks like he gets good sleep.
Mateo is living and breathing his product.
I had never had the ability to change the temperature of my bed before I had an Eight Sleep.
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You said something in the early days of Spotify that was very fascinating.
You wanted to build like an enduring and impactful company that did something that no one else did, right?
It's remarkable also like when I'm listening to this series that was created in 2021, how much you guys are talking about AI and how early you were and you understood the impact, which is like,
you kind of saw clearly like where we're going uh but you said something that i didn't actually understand because the way i think about technology is like technology is just a better way to do something right and you're like at spotify though like at the very beginning it's like yeah i think you nailed it you're like the decisions that were made have to do with the dna of the founder because we're the only ones there but you said i like technology for technology's sake yeah what does that mean um
I think most of us, you can't even describe why you're doing what you're doing at the time.
And what I mean by that is like, you hinted on this earlier.
It's like, it's so easy to kill new ideas.
The arrow on the side of, no, we can't do this.
It's amazing to me how many times this comes up in all these biographies where it's just like, that's a skill you have to learn.
And a lot of it is like being comfortable with the messiness of the creative product process.
But it's also entrepreneurs by definition, impatient.
Like they have this, this, what looks like a paradox where like they want shit done now.
I love, uh, Jeff Bezos says about this step-by-step ferociously.
Um, you know, that's the, I'm willing to, to plan, you know, to, to, if for take two decades or three decades to solve the problem that I'm trying to go after, maybe in some cases, stuff that he's working on might even outlive his lifetime, but it doesn't mean I'm like dilly-dallying on a day-to-day basis.
I heard you say something one time.
You're like, I promise you,
I don't think I'm the smartest.
I don't think I'm the most talented.
If I have one superpower, it's like I have super patience.
I think Neko is like an example of this.
I met your co-founder on it, and I got to see this too.
And I was like, oh, this is cool.
And then I didn't know it was like –
I don't know if stealth is the right word, but from the idea to the first time the customer happened, it was like six years or something or four years.
No, the company's eight years old and we barely began.
And it's like, okay, that's an insane love.
That's an understanding of like we're tackling one something that's – I like what you just said, like innovation and creativity is actually a combination of things that occurred before that we're combining.
And when you mentioned that, I thought of like, you know, James Dyson is one of my entrepreneur heroes.
And what I love about one of the hidden things that people don't know is he wrote a book called The History of Great Inventions.
It's such a like – it's not – it's kind of a bland read.
But like it's just him going through like little Wikipedia pages or like his version of like Wikipedia pages about like –
what this inventor did, how he did it, and what the result was.
And then you see him take these ideas from like 1700 or whatever.
And I was like, oh, I'll just take like that little piece out here and I'll combine it with this piece.
And then what's the new technology today that enables me to solve this problem that didn't exist a few years ago?
So you have this patience, right?
You have this desire to solve problems.
It's almost like, it sounded like to me, and maybe you could disagree with me, like you were sounding like
you see a giant puzzle that you're trying to figure out.
Now you have, like, you have more resources, you can be patient.
Like, you couldn't have done NECO when you were 23, right?
But you have this great quote that I know is important to you, and it says, quality is never an accident.
It is always a result of intelligent effort.
We haven't talked about quality at all, even though...
like spotify is the height like if you compare your competitors like it's just in a class by itself yeah so it's obviously very important to you yeah like we can't we have to talk about quality so like do you want to like just pick up where that quote leaves off
There's a realization you have, right?
Because I read something, you read a line, and you're like, okay, let me filter that through how I would say it.
So I do this all the time where I'll take notes on all the books that I read, and then I'll reread them.
It's like, what's occurring there?
Can I put it into one sentence?
And one thing I stumbled upon about this was
that sometimes the uh nick sleep has this great quote where he's like the best investors are not investors at all they're entrepreneurs never sold and me and you have talked about this the fact that there's a lot of people that have like sold way too early and they're like lauded and it's like what if you just didn't do that everything else you did like you if you just didn't sell uh
So Nick Sleep talks about this as like, and in other books was like, if Sam Walton didn't give away the stock in Walmart to his kids before it appreciated, you know, you have one of the largest fortunes by a single person ever for their ownership, the concentration of ownership in Walmart.
He's like, I didn't really do investing in anything but Walmart, right?
And it's like he wasn't waking up saying, I need to diversify my portfolio.
I need to worry about capital allocation.
He's just like, I believe in what I'm doing.
I'm going to keep doing it.
I'm going to throw all my money in there.
And he's just like, I'm doing it because I love to do it.
And spending time doing anything else would be an absolute distraction.
And Nick Sleep talks about this because he's –
He's not building a product, but he's making capital allocation decisions.
Like, do I need to sell this stock, put it into another one?
I'm weighing my opportunity costs.
And he was haunted almost by this idea.
If you look at financial history, it's like he talked about a firm, a financial firm one day where they're like, okay,
uh, we owned IBM in the 1950s.
I didn't know until I read Michael Dell's autobiography, right?
Because IBM was, it's like, they're the most powerful and wealthiest company in the world when me and you were born, okay?
And Michael Dell's like, you have to understand, like 1987 for me to like yell out to my dad, he's like, what do you want to do for a living?
I want to compete with IBM.
I'm a 19-year-old in my dorm room with $1,000.
Like, what kind of grandiose ambition do you have?
I was like, why is this so crazy?
It was the most valuable company in the world by market cap at the time.
It was the first company to go over $100 billion in market cap, right?
And these little 19-year-old kids, like, no, I think I can, like, have a go at them.
But Nick Sleep talks about he came into this firm, and he's reading how they talk about their investments.
And, like, we made a massive mistake.
We owned IBM in the 1950s, and we sold.
And they're having this conversation in the 1970s.
And the leadership of the financial firm is like, how do we avoid not doing this?
They said, if we just held that, the gain would have been more than all the assets we have in our management.
That same year, they sold Walmart.
They had Walmart in the 1970s.
So they made the same mistake.
And Buffett, obviously, greatest investor of all time.
He went and talked to Walt Disney in like the sixties.
And then he, I think that he bought the soccer, like 62 cents or something.
And he, he had like a two X or four X game.
He's like, yeah, I sold this day.
So that's why I was like, Oh, the best financial decisions are not financial decisions at all.
You're doing it for another reason, which is exactly what you said.
all Sam had to do was just keep doing Walmart.
I remember, um, yeah, I obviously live in Miami, uh, on a friend's boat in the Marina there.
And there's like the boat, like bigger than anything else around there.
It's like, and you can Google like who owns it.
It was Sam Walton's brother's daughter.
A lot of the stuff like when I talk on the podcast or everything I say on social media is like reminders to myself because I just read, reread past highlights because like we forget that we forget.
And I just came across one.
It's just like I have them presented to me in a random order.
So it's like I never know what I'm going to read that day.
And it said it was Buffett.
It's like the difference between successful people and really successful people is really successful people say no to everything.
And this is exactly the constant thing where, like, I do have a question for you.
One, going back to that, it's like I can't even explain why I did what I did because, like, I had close to no traction for five and a half years.
And now I look back, I was like, there's no way I would do that today.
But somehow that person who I now greatly appreciate and love that he – it feels like a different person.
That is like what I'm most proud of is not like trying to make something that's great, which I think is a selfish thing for us.
It's like, yes, when you release it to the world, you release Spotify, you do all these things.
It's an act of service to other people, but you're also doing it because like you have to.
But I just cannot believe that –
And I'm just like, that's the thing I'm most proud of than anything else.
Just like, I had to do this.
I was willing to like drive Uber if I had to, 10 bar, do literally whatever.
I was like, just give me enough time.
I didn't think it was going to take half a decade to figure it out.
You have a ton of stories with Spotify with that.
There is no line, I feel, between, like, your work and your life.
Like, they're one and the same.
The issue that I'm having now and in general is that I feel a lot of pressure because, like, I'm trying to change not just my life but, like, the trajectory of, like, my entire family.
And I feel very guilty when I don't work to the point where, like, you know, I just got back from a crazy trip that people would love to go on.
And, like, I just felt guilty for not – for, like, taking time off.
out and off and not working.
And I feel like this is almost like a compulsion, like I don't have control over it.
Do you have anything like that?
So you mean energy is like you just let that guide you?
It's like, hey, if I need a break right now, if I need to go for a walk or if I need to go spend time with my wife and kids or like – Yeah.
No, we're in perfect alignment.
It's, in life, the challenge is not so much to figure out how best to play the game.
The challenge is to figure out what game you're playing.
Do you have more or less negative self-talk today than you did 20 years ago?
I've really, really— Listen, I've listened to all your interviews, and I did this before we were friends.
And every time something comes out, I was like, oh, I got to watch that.
You're not giving yourself enough credit.
Like, you are a very clear communicator.
I have two more questions that I'm personally curious about.
One is going to be a very weird question, but the first one is…
Most of the people watching this or listening to this, so few people are going to be born in the projects in a tiny little... We'll have to do this every year if you're fine with it.
Because the idea that you even come from this tiny little island, which I was like...
like got to visit and then you like competing with the biggest companies in the world and you win.
It's just doesn't like, we, we didn't even get there, but like you grow up, you have a great mom, you know, you're single family, not a lot of money, but, and then now what I'm curious about is like your lived experience is so there's so few people alive that can actually empathize with that as, because they also had it.
Do you feel different now?
Um, and what I mean by that is like, as you've grown from, you know, a kid in the projects, even if you had early success to now being, you know, one of the most successful entrepreneurs on the planet, which I know don't do the face, but it's undeniable fact, like, do you feel different?
No, it goes back to impact to happiness.
This is what, so I think I text this to you.
But one of the roles you play, and I'm very grateful that you allowed us to like record this conversation because essentially what I texture is like you seem to have like no self-imposed ceiling on what you can learn or achieve.
And that spending time with you then transfers that belief to other people.
And so like every single time, you know, I obviously like –
I take notes of like what I learned from the conversation we have after the fact.
It's like, obviously not verbatim.
I'm saying like, what did I just learn from Daniel?
He's like, oh, you have all these, you think you don't, I thought like I was ambitious and I, like, I didn't even realize till you kind of pulled the scales off my eyes.
Like you have this like limiting belief that you have no limits.
There is no limits in life.
And so like, you're a hell of inspiring.
One other question for you.
I'm obsessed with Game of Thrones to an unhealthy degree.
I rewatch the series all the time.
I'll read the family histories because I do think like you can learn a lot from human nature in fiction.
And my job and my obsession requires me to, 99% of my reading is nonfiction.
And I don't, I want to read more fiction.
And I came across something recently because I'm going through Jeff Bezos' shareholders again.
And then I read like, what was my interpretation of this in the past?
And then I came across something that was fascinating.
There's a story in the prequels of Game of Thrones.
where two brothers are fighting in this war.
One of the brothers was pulled into the war that did not want to be there.
And he made the sacrifice because it was for the good of his family.
He wind up dying in the war that he didn't want to fight in the first place.
And his brother still survived.
got his remains, buried him, and then put him in a grave with only one word on his tombstone.
And that one word was loyal.
So hopefully, 100 years from now, when you do have a tombstone, if there was only going to be one word on that tombstone, what would you want it to be?
That's a great way to end it.
Daniel, I'm thankful for your time.
Thankful for your friendship.
You're one of the people I most admire and I really appreciate you doing this.
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
Please remember to subscribe wherever you're listening and leave a review and make sure you listen to my other podcast founders.
For almost a decade, I've obsessively read over 400 biographies of history's greatest entrepreneurs.
searching for ideas that you can use in your work.
Most of the guests you hear on this show first found me through founders.
The way I think about this is like, by the end of this year, I would have studied, read over 400 biographies of history's greatest entrepreneurs, right? I'm like eight years into the project. And if I was forced to distill that down to one word, the word would be focus.
The way I think about this is like, by the end of this year, I would have studied, read over 400 biographies of history's greatest entrepreneurs, right? I'm like eight years into the project. And if I was forced to distill that down to one word, the word would be focus.
And the reason I think that pops out is because the way I look at this, and I've told you this before, we've talked about this a bunch. I feel that when you read a biography of somebody, or an autobiography is even a better example of this, I feel you get to have a one-sided conversation with somebody. Right. Obviously, if I do a monologue podcast, I like to talk. And so I can't talk.
And the reason I think that pops out is because the way I look at this, and I've told you this before, we've talked about this a bunch. I feel that when you read a biography of somebody, or an autobiography is even a better example of this, I feel you get to have a one-sided conversation with somebody. Right. Obviously, if I do a monologue podcast, I like to talk. And so I can't talk.
So I'm just forced to sit there and listen. And I feel that person is telling me, you know, the most important parts of their life, their 40, 50, 60 year career. Then I go online, you know, and we live in this very modern environment. I open up Instagram. I look at TikTok, look at X. And it's like, oh, the exact opposite of
So I'm just forced to sit there and listen. And I feel that person is telling me, you know, the most important parts of their life, their 40, 50, 60 year career. Then I go online, you know, and we live in this very modern environment. I open up Instagram. I look at TikTok, look at X. And it's like, oh, the exact opposite of
What this person did their whole career and what I've just spent 40 hours doing is this. It's like, let's not focus on something for 40 years or five decades or even 40 hours. Let's focus on it for four seconds. We were on the walk over here.
What this person did their whole career and what I've just spent 40 hours doing is this. It's like, let's not focus on something for 40 years or five decades or even 40 hours. Let's focus on it for four seconds. We were on the walk over here.
I mentioned the point where I was like, maybe the best thing for me to do, because where I do is like what I get joy is just literally like I like to spend about half my life or the time that I'm awake alone. And most of that is reading. I get a lot of joy out of that. And then the way I feel after I read a good book or even make an episode that I'm proud of.
I mentioned the point where I was like, maybe the best thing for me to do, because where I do is like what I get joy is just literally like I like to spend about half my life or the time that I'm awake alone. And most of that is reading. I get a lot of joy out of that. And then the way I feel after I read a good book or even make an episode that I'm proud of.
And then the way I feel like when I go online, I'm like, oh, these are like the complete opposite. They're the contrast. One is feeds my soul and one is good for me and one is the opposite. And so I told you, I was like, maybe what I should do is just like not read online at all and just post all day long about the stuff I'm reading.
And then the way I feel like when I go online, I'm like, oh, these are like the complete opposite. They're the contrast. One is feeds my soul and one is good for me and one is the opposite. And so I told you, I was like, maybe what I should do is just like not read online at all and just post all day long about the stuff I'm reading.
Like use it as a tool instead of a giant distraction where I think a lot of people, like it's just completely destroying their ability to focus. And I think it's related to maybe why you asked me the question is like, I'm very reluctant to like have an opinion on, like when you listen to the podcast or when we have conversations or we're on the phone,
Like use it as a tool instead of a giant distraction where I think a lot of people, like it's just completely destroying their ability to focus. And I think it's related to maybe why you asked me the question is like, I'm very reluctant to like have an opinion on, like when you listen to the podcast or when we have conversations or we're on the phone,
If something comes up, it's like, well, you know, Steve Jobs would say, do this, or David Ogilvie did this, or Buffett looked at it this way, or Munger looked at it this way. It's not like David thinks you should do this. Because I don't really have an opinion on what other people should do. I just think of like how I want to run my life.
If something comes up, it's like, well, you know, Steve Jobs would say, do this, or David Ogilvie did this, or Buffett looked at it this way, or Munger looked at it this way. It's not like David thinks you should do this. Because I don't really have an opinion on what other people should do. I just think of like how I want to run my life.
And now I'm thinking maybe I should actually like be a little more vocal about, hey, it's kind of weird that the people that were literally the best at what they did in their life We're completely focused. We're not in this huge rush. They obviously work very fast, but they're not like, they didn't have goals.
And now I'm thinking maybe I should actually like be a little more vocal about, hey, it's kind of weird that the people that were literally the best at what they did in their life We're completely focused. We're not in this huge rush. They obviously work very fast, but they're not like, they didn't have goals.
Like when I'm seeing a lot online, it's like, we're the fastest company ever to X revenue. It's just like, they didn't talk that way. Like Sam Walton did not talk that way. Coco Chanel did not talk that way. Enzo Ferrari, they understood they found something they love to do and did it for an incredibly long time. And so I talked about this where I get to meet a lot of great entrepreneurs and
Like when I'm seeing a lot online, it's like, we're the fastest company ever to X revenue. It's just like, they didn't talk that way. Like Sam Walton did not talk that way. Coco Chanel did not talk that way. Enzo Ferrari, they understood they found something they love to do and did it for an incredibly long time. And so I talked about this where I get to meet a lot of great entrepreneurs and
And my favorite entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs I've been the most impressed with, they're all over the age of 70, like all of them. It was like, who's the young entrepreneur you admire?
And my favorite entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs I've been the most impressed with, they're all over the age of 70, like all of them. It was like, who's the young entrepreneur you admire?
I was like, I don't even know any of their names because I'm so focused on this person has spent five decades thinking deeply about what they're doing and the stuff they can convey to you over like a dinner, a phone call, a conversation. Um, I just, I don't find that anywhere else.
I was like, I don't even know any of their names because I'm so focused on this person has spent five decades thinking deeply about what they're doing and the stuff they can convey to you over like a dinner, a phone call, a conversation. Um, I just, I don't find that anywhere else.
And I think that's a complete byproduct of the fact that they were able to focus on something for many, many decades, which is completely, uh, I would say opposite of most of human nature. I think that is why it's valuable because it's so rare for people to be able to do that. Why does that interest you?
And I think that's a complete byproduct of the fact that they were able to focus on something for many, many decades, which is completely, uh, I would say opposite of most of human nature. I think that is why it's valuable because it's so rare for people to be able to do that. Why does that interest you?
Time is the best filter. Time is the only filter that I trust. You know, most of the people I cover are dead. If they're not dead, their career, they're at the end of their career, they're an older, wiser person and they're passing on these lessons, right?
Time is the best filter. Time is the only filter that I trust. You know, most of the people I cover are dead. If they're not dead, their career, they're at the end of their career, they're an older, wiser person and they're passing on these lessons, right?
And I remember people, I got a lot of pushback when FTX was taking off and all these people were telling me, you gotta do an episode on SPF, this guy's a genius, he's the fastest person to like a $35 billion net worth or whatever the number was. And so I was like, oh, maybe I'm missing something. Maybe they're right.
And I remember people, I got a lot of pushback when FTX was taking off and all these people were telling me, you gotta do an episode on SPF, this guy's a genius, he's the fastest person to like a $35 billion net worth or whatever the number was. And so I was like, oh, maybe I'm missing something. Maybe they're right.
And we got to talk about Todd Graves in the episode I just did, because I'm really proud of it. I think when people ask me- It's my favorite episode now. Yeah, when people ask me who's my favorite living entrepreneur, they expect me to say a tech entrepreneur. It's like, no, a guy that owns Raising Cane's. They're like, what are you talking about?
And we got to talk about Todd Graves in the episode I just did, because I'm really proud of it. I think when people ask me- It's my favorite episode now. Yeah, when people ask me who's my favorite living entrepreneur, they expect me to say a tech entrepreneur. It's like, no, a guy that owns Raising Cane's. They're like, what are you talking about?
He owns 90% of a business that he started in college. He's been doing it for 30 years. The business is worth at least $10 million. It's growing at 30% a year. And he refuses to sell. What would be the opposite of that, right? The slow grind to really perfecting what you're doing before you try to like just scale it up.
He owns 90% of a business that he started in college. He's been doing it for 30 years. The business is worth at least $10 million. It's growing at 30% a year. And he refuses to sell. What would be the opposite of that, right? The slow grind to really perfecting what you're doing before you try to like just scale it up.
There's a great line, I think, in Nick Sleep's partnership letters, which I just did. And he's like, we just don't understand why we go to these companies that are losing money and they want to figure out how to get bigger. And so lose more money. And he's not talking about like an Amazon where you actually have to do that. SPF, I'm like, oh, well, maybe I'm wrong.
There's a great line, I think, in Nick Sleep's partnership letters, which I just did. And he's like, we just don't understand why we go to these companies that are losing money and they want to figure out how to get bigger. And so lose more money. And he's not talking about like an Amazon where you actually have to do that. SPF, I'm like, oh, well, maybe I'm wrong.
Like maybe these people are right. And the reason I thought about Todd Graves, because there's so many people in his career, which we'll get to, that said, no, you're doing it wrong. And he's, and when he was younger, he's like, damn, they're like experts. They're smarter. They're like older than me. Like, and he started to doubt himself for a little bit.
Like maybe these people are right. And the reason I thought about Todd Graves, because there's so many people in his career, which we'll get to, that said, no, you're doing it wrong. And he's, and when he was younger, he's like, damn, they're like experts. They're smarter. They're like older than me. Like, and he started to doubt himself for a little bit.
And he's like, wait, no, they didn't know what the fuck they were talking about. And so I was really resistant to the SPF thing. So I started listening to all these podcasts on them. And then when he does podcasts, he would like multitask. Which my personal hero is Charlie Munger. I think he's the wisest person I've ever come across, the wisest person I've ever talked to. And what does he say?
And he's like, wait, no, they didn't know what the fuck they were talking about. And so I was really resistant to the SPF thing. So I started listening to all these podcasts on them. And then when he does podcasts, he would like multitask. Which my personal hero is Charlie Munger. I think he's the wisest person I've ever come across, the wisest person I've ever talked to. And what does he say?
He's like, you're going to get half-assed effort. That's not an exact quote. Like if you multitask, he just, he single tasks. Like I'm just focused on whatever's in front of me. He has this great quote that I put up that went viral. And it's like obvious. And he's like, I didn't succeed in life because of intelligence. I succeeded because I had a long attention span.
He's like, you're going to get half-assed effort. That's not an exact quote. Like if you multitask, he just, he single tasks. Like I'm just focused on whatever's in front of me. He has this great quote that I put up that went viral. And it's like obvious. And he's like, I didn't succeed in life because of intelligence. I succeeded because I had a long attention span.
And that's what I'm so interested in to go back to your point. But then I started watching these SPF podcasts and no disrespect, I'm sure he's a nice guy. I'm not trying to insult him, but he's like, I've been on a bunch of podcasts. I've never played fucking video games while I'm doing anything. Yeah. It's like, this is so, first of all, it's kind of disrespectful. It's like a human level.
And that's what I'm so interested in to go back to your point. But then I started watching these SPF podcasts and no disrespect, I'm sure he's a nice guy. I'm not trying to insult him, but he's like, I've been on a bunch of podcasts. I've never played fucking video games while I'm doing anything. Yeah. It's like, this is so, first of all, it's kind of disrespectful. It's like a human level.
It's like, you don't even deserve my full attention. You know what? My phone's not here. Like we're like just having this conversation. But then, so I said, okay, well, maybe there's interesting ideas here. And then he explains what he was doing. And then I heard him say something. And immediately he said this. He's like, well, I actually think no one ever has to read a book.
It's like, you don't even deserve my full attention. You know what? My phone's not here. Like we're like just having this conversation. But then, so I said, okay, well, maybe there's interesting ideas here. And then he explains what he was doing. And then I heard him say something. And immediately he said this. He's like, well, I actually think no one ever has to read a book.
And he talks about like, he doesn't read books. Books are stupid. Should just be a blog post. And I was like, oh, there's no way I'm doing. What's the chance that this young kid, right?
And he talks about like, he doesn't read books. Books are stupid. Should just be a blog post. And I was like, oh, there's no way I'm doing. What's the chance that this young kid, right?
he arrived at a conclusion that for the last 5,000 years of humanity, you have all these people talking about how valuable it is to write down the lessons from the people that came before us and to pick up that book and read the lessons. And this guy comes along and says, no, no, just disregard that mass of humanity. That's not a valuable activity.
he arrived at a conclusion that for the last 5,000 years of humanity, you have all these people talking about how valuable it is to write down the lessons from the people that came before us and to pick up that book and read the lessons. And this guy comes along and says, no, no, just disregard that mass of humanity. That's not a valuable activity.
I'm sorry, I'm going to take Munger over SPF every day. And I'm so glad I didn't do the episode. Because imagine if I had in the Founders Back catalog, a podcast on history's greatest entrepreneur, and it's a guy that, you know,
I'm sorry, I'm going to take Munger over SPF every day. And I'm so glad I didn't do the episode. Because imagine if I had in the Founders Back catalog, a podcast on history's greatest entrepreneur, and it's a guy that, you know,
One, they just, I think great anything takes time. Like a great business takes time. You can be phenomenal. If you look in the early days of Amazon, obviously Jeff was really gifted. He's really smart. He was doing a lot of smart things even before he started Amazon.
One, they just, I think great anything takes time. Like a great business takes time. You can be phenomenal. If you look in the early days of Amazon, obviously Jeff was really gifted. He's really smart. He was doing a lot of smart things even before he started Amazon.
But if you look at how good he was and how great the business was a decade to three decades in, I always say this quote, and I think it's dead right. It's fascinating that everybody in technology has read Zero to One, right? If you're only going to read one book, probably that would be the one to read. I think it's excellent.
But if you look at how good he was and how great the business was a decade to three decades in, I always say this quote, and I think it's dead right. It's fascinating that everybody in technology has read Zero to One, right? If you're only going to read one book, probably that would be the one to read. I think it's excellent.
But they missed the part of what he says in there where he's like, hey, there's a big problem with technology companies is they optimize for growth at the expense of durability.
But they missed the part of what he says in there where he's like, hey, there's a big problem with technology companies is they optimize for growth at the expense of durability.
But if you look at when do these giant companies, and he said tech companies, but you see this in all these companies, Raising Cane's is another example, where they actually make more money three, four, five, six decades into the future. All the real money is out there. So therefore, if you're optimizing for growth at the expense of durability, you're never going to get to the real rewards.
But if you look at when do these giant companies, and he said tech companies, but you see this in all these companies, Raising Cane's is another example, where they actually make more money three, four, five, six decades into the future. All the real money is out there. So therefore, if you're optimizing for growth at the expense of durability, you're never going to get to the real rewards.
And the reason you do that is because growth you can track and durability you cannot. And I just did this episode on Ken Griffin and what's fascinating is he's founded Citadel, I think 35 years ago. And I think he founded Citadel of Securities 23 years ago. And he just said, we've had the most, the best financial years of our entire life in the last four years.
And the reason you do that is because growth you can track and durability you cannot. And I just did this episode on Ken Griffin and what's fascinating is he's founded Citadel, I think 35 years ago. And I think he founded Citadel of Securities 23 years ago. And he just said, we've had the most, the best financial years of our entire life in the last four years.
He's 30 years, 30 years into that business is the best time he's had. And he's, you know, hopefully he keeps compounding that.
He's 30 years, 30 years into that business is the best time he's had. And he's, you know, hopefully he keeps compounding that.
I think what this really comes down to, like you're kind of hitting at this. I think this is why, even though I'm not an investor, I do like your framing of like trying to back people that it's their life's work. I am very interested in people that have a mission and I don't know why.
I think what this really comes down to, like you're kind of hitting at this. I think this is why, even though I'm not an investor, I do like your framing of like trying to back people that it's their life's work. I am very interested in people that have a mission and I don't know why.
It took me 32 years to find my mission, another five and a half to make it to where it can actually support my family. And then, you know, now I realize like, oh, this is it. This is the thing I'm doing. I want to tie into something I read yesterday. You guys actually made this great profile on Neil. Yeah. And what I would say is. There's a lot of good quotes in there.
It took me 32 years to find my mission, another five and a half to make it to where it can actually support my family. And then, you know, now I realize like, oh, this is it. This is the thing I'm doing. I want to tie into something I read yesterday. You guys actually made this great profile on Neil. Yeah. And what I would say is. There's a lot of good quotes in there.
I feel like I should do like a miniature, like episode bonus episode on that one. He gave this analogy of like, um, of the helicopter. It's like, most people are like doing due diligence on a company or whatever. And they're at like 8,000 feet and they maybe go, they'll hover down to 5,000 feet. And they're like, Oh, we did our job. They're like, no, no.
I feel like I should do like a miniature, like episode bonus episode on that one. He gave this analogy of like, um, of the helicopter. It's like, most people are like doing due diligence on a company or whatever. And they're at like 8,000 feet and they maybe go, they'll hover down to 5,000 feet. And they're like, Oh, we did our job. They're like, no, no.
Neil lands the helicopter, then gets out of the helicopter, then goes underneath the helicopter and then puts his hands in the dirt. And I read that. I don't think of any entrepreneur living, I think, oh, that's Walt Disney. That's Steve Jobs. That's Estee Lauder. That's all the people that I admire. That's Todd Graves. It sounds like I heard stories.
Neil lands the helicopter, then gets out of the helicopter, then goes underneath the helicopter and then puts his hands in the dirt. And I read that. I don't think of any entrepreneur living, I think, oh, that's Walt Disney. That's Steve Jobs. That's Estee Lauder. That's all the people that I admire. That's Todd Graves. It sounds like I heard stories.
I was just at this dinner last weekend for somebody that knows Ken. And they asked what episode I'm working on. I was like, oh, I'm working on an episode of Ken Griffin. And they were telling stories that were very similar to that, paying attention to even the tiniest corner of the business you wouldn't even think he's paying attention to.
I was just at this dinner last weekend for somebody that knows Ken. And they asked what episode I'm working on. I was like, oh, I'm working on an episode of Ken Griffin. And they were telling stories that were very similar to that, paying attention to even the tiniest corner of the business you wouldn't even think he's paying attention to.
But he's sitting there and talk to the person responsible for three straight hours to make sure it's being done. I just like people that take what they're doing seriously. The feedback on the Tigress episode, it's absolutely ripping.
But he's sitting there and talk to the person responsible for three straight hours to make sure it's being done. I just like people that take what they're doing seriously. The feedback on the Tigress episode, it's absolutely ripping.
But the only negative feedback is like, I can't, because he says in the episode that he believes that God put him on earth to be good at chicken fingers to help people. So he can make a lot of money and he does a lot of like charitable work. And people are like, you know, they think they're smarter. Too obsessed with chicken fingers. They think they're smarter than him.
But the only negative feedback is like, I can't, because he says in the episode that he believes that God put him on earth to be good at chicken fingers to help people. So he can make a lot of money and he does a lot of like charitable work. And people are like, you know, they think they're smarter. Too obsessed with chicken fingers. They think they're smarter than him.
Essentially what they're saying is like, have you built a $10 billion company? Have you done that? Are you the best in your profession? Are you the top of your craft? It doesn't matter what the craft is. At least he has a mission. You may laugh at his mission. You think it's ridiculous. But one, I know he believes it for a fact, or he's the world's greatest actor for three decades, right?
Essentially what they're saying is like, have you built a $10 billion company? Have you done that? Are you the best in your profession? Are you the top of your craft? It doesn't matter what the craft is. At least he has a mission. You may laugh at his mission. You think it's ridiculous. But one, I know he believes it for a fact, or he's the world's greatest actor for three decades, right?
And we can go through the level of commitment that he had to make that dream real, right? And you can make fun of the fact that he has a mission, but it's like he's already ahead of most of humanity that is alive today and has ever lived. Most people don't have a mission.
And we can go through the level of commitment that he had to make that dream real, right? And you can make fun of the fact that he has a mission, but it's like he's already ahead of most of humanity that is alive today and has ever lived. Most people don't have a mission.
There's a great example of this in Steve Jobs that he was heavily criticized in the early of his career because he would make the inside of the computer that you couldn't even open up Beautiful. And people are like, you're wasting your time. It wasn't a waste of time to him.
There's a great example of this in Steve Jobs that he was heavily criticized in the early of his career because he would make the inside of the computer that you couldn't even open up Beautiful. And people are like, you're wasting your time. It wasn't a waste of time to him.
I truly believe, like I'm obsessed and we've talked about this all the time. Like, you know, I get literally emails. They're like, why do you quote Munger in every single episode? And it's just like, cause all I do is listen to this, what I thought this brilliant guy, his advice. And I just did it. Like I always say, learning is not memorizing information. Learning is changing your behavior.
I truly believe, like I'm obsessed and we've talked about this all the time. Like, you know, I get literally emails. They're like, why do you quote Munger in every single episode? And it's just like, cause all I do is listen to this, what I thought this brilliant guy, his advice. And I just did it. Like I always say, learning is not memorizing information. Learning is changing your behavior.
And there's been a handful of times where I meet people, I read a book, I have a conversation where literally my behavior, my behavior has changed. The trajectory of my life has changed. The way he was able to describe things to me, he's just like, there's a bunch of examples where he's, and he's like, you know, he knows everything about business history.
And there's been a handful of times where I meet people, I read a book, I have a conversation where literally my behavior, my behavior has changed. The trajectory of my life has changed. The way he was able to describe things to me, he's just like, there's a bunch of examples where he's, and he's like, you know, he knows everything about business history.
He had 60 years of experience and he would share forever. freely with everybody. And he's like, occasionally we find scaling down and upping the intensity, you get an advantage. That sounds like Todd Graves to me. He's like, oh, you have, my competitors have 10 things on the menu. I have one.
He had 60 years of experience and he would share forever. freely with everybody. And he's like, occasionally we find scaling down and upping the intensity, you get an advantage. That sounds like Todd Graves to me. He's like, oh, you have, my competitors have 10 things on the menu. I have one.
You can get three chicken fingers, four chicken fingers, six chicken fingers, and you want chicken sandwich? Here's two buns, and that's it. And then find a simple idea and take it seriously is another mongerism. And then what he realized when he analyzed Costco, where he's like, oftentimes in business, we find the winning system goes ridiculously far.
You can get three chicken fingers, four chicken fingers, six chicken fingers, and you want chicken sandwich? Here's two buns, and that's it. And then find a simple idea and take it seriously is another mongerism. And then what he realized when he analyzed Costco, where he's like, oftentimes in business, we find the winning system goes ridiculously far.
That's the most important two words in this sentence. Ridiculously far in maximizing and or minimizing one or a few variables. I think it was Ken Griffin talked about this. I've seen this with a bunch of investors. We talked about this with Richard Rainwater before. Jay Pritzker was like this, Sam Zell was like this, because we'll tie this to investing.
That's the most important two words in this sentence. Ridiculously far in maximizing and or minimizing one or a few variables. I think it was Ken Griffin talked about this. I've seen this with a bunch of investors. We talked about this with Richard Rainwater before. Jay Pritzker was like this, Sam Zell was like this, because we'll tie this to investing.
It's like, if you bring them a deal and there's like seven different things that have to go right, like the chance of every single one going right is very, very small.
It's like, if you bring them a deal and there's like seven different things that have to go right, like the chance of every single one going right is very, very small.
And so like, I love what Richard Rainwater would do, where it's like, you bring me your idea on one piece of paper, you write it on one piece of paper, explain to me in simple words, and then at the end, just tell me how much of your own money you're putting in. And then I'll decide if I'm going to do this. This guy was one of the best dealmakers, you know, investors of all time.
And so like, I love what Richard Rainwater would do, where it's like, you bring me your idea on one piece of paper, you write it on one piece of paper, explain to me in simple words, and then at the end, just tell me how much of your own money you're putting in. And then I'll decide if I'm going to do this. This guy was one of the best dealmakers, you know, investors of all time.
You see it over and over again. Sam Zell told me when I got to meet him, it's also in his autobiography. He's like, Jay Pritzker was the most brilliant financial mind I've ever come across. He was like an older brother to Sam. He was like 20 years older. And his whole point was like, I'd come to him when I was younger and bring him like, okay, there's like six things we have to do.
You see it over and over again. Sam Zell told me when I got to meet him, it's also in his autobiography. He's like, Jay Pritzker was the most brilliant financial mind I've ever come across. He was like an older brother to Sam. He was like 20 years older. And his whole point was like, I'd come to him when I was younger and bring him like, okay, there's like six things we have to do.
And Jay would look at it. He's like, no, one. If you nail that, everything else will either work out, it will either live or die off of that. Go back to when in the huge mania in, you know, with 2020, 21, all this huge tech bubble where Sam Zell goes on CNBC, he's like, WeWork's going to zero. Like, no, not going to work. And it was like at all times high.
And Jay would look at it. He's like, no, one. If you nail that, everything else will either work out, it will either live or die off of that. Go back to when in the huge mania in, you know, with 2020, 21, all this huge tech bubble where Sam Zell goes on CNBC, he's like, WeWork's going to zero. Like, no, not going to work. And it was like at all times high.
Maslow's spending in like $20 billion, whatever the case is. And it was like asset price liability mismatch or whatever the word. He's like, nope, this guy in 1972 did this, failed. 82, this other guy did it. This is the company, failed. Why? Because there's only one thing that's important and an app doesn't fucking solve that. You're not paying attention.
Maslow's spending in like $20 billion, whatever the case is. And it was like asset price liability mismatch or whatever the word. He's like, nope, this guy in 1972 did this, failed. 82, this other guy did it. This is the company, failed. Why? Because there's only one thing that's important and an app doesn't fucking solve that. You're not paying attention.
And so when I look at Todd Graves, the reason I wanted to do that episode is one, I just saw a clip. This is what I mean about learning is not memorizing information. Learning is you changing behavior. I talk to a lot of people and they're like, I love your podcast. And some of them become friends with, and I see the decisions they're making their business.
And so when I look at Todd Graves, the reason I wanted to do that episode is one, I just saw a clip. This is what I mean about learning is not memorizing information. Learning is you changing behavior. I talk to a lot of people and they're like, I love your podcast. And some of them become friends with, and I see the decisions they're making their business.
Like, oh, you don't, you're listening and you're just wasting your time because you're not actually applying the lessons. Take what they did and what they said and see if that works in your business and then actually change it. And so I saw a clip and it was a clip, I think on TikTok, where Todd Graves was being interviewed on a comedian's podcast, Theo Vaughn.
Like, oh, you don't, you're listening and you're just wasting your time because you're not actually applying the lessons. Take what they did and what they said and see if that works in your business and then actually change it. And so I saw a clip and it was a clip, I think on TikTok, where Todd Graves was being interviewed on a comedian's podcast, Theo Vaughn.
And he was talking about, he's like, I've been a big believer in always doing one thing and doing it better than anybody else. And then they kept cutting the clip, you know, it's probably 45 seconds. And he talked about, he even got down to the minutiae of, How simple is my menu? How easy can I make it to select what the customer wants?
And he was talking about, he's like, I've been a big believer in always doing one thing and doing it better than anybody else. And then they kept cutting the clip, you know, it's probably 45 seconds. And he talked about, he even got down to the minutiae of, How simple is my menu? How easy can I make it to select what the customer wants?
Okay, so that customer is now going to take five seconds to decide. I go to Raising Cane's, I know exactly what I'm getting, right? As opposed to go to McDonald's or another competitor's. Now it's, instead of a 10 second order, it's a 40 second order. That may make not a big difference when you're having, you know, a hundred orders a day and you have one store. He's got 800 now.
Okay, so that customer is now going to take five seconds to decide. I go to Raising Cane's, I know exactly what I'm getting, right? As opposed to go to McDonald's or another competitor's. Now it's, instead of a 10 second order, it's a 40 second order. That may make not a big difference when you're having, you know, a hundred orders a day and you have one store. He's got 800 now.
It makes a huge difference. And he just immediately understood. And so when I, this is how, because I fucking brainwashed myself about this, I don't think of Todd Graves when I hear that. I'm like, oh, that's like Rockefeller going over to one of his employees who was soldering, closing up oil cans and says, how many drops of solder do you use? And the guy's like, 40. Have you ever tried less?
It makes a huge difference. And he just immediately understood. And so when I, this is how, because I fucking brainwashed myself about this, I don't think of Todd Graves when I hear that. I'm like, oh, that's like Rockefeller going over to one of his employees who was soldering, closing up oil cans and says, how many drops of solder do you use? And the guy's like, 40. Have you ever tried less?
Try 38. Okay, I tried 38. It leaked. Okay, try 39. Oh, 39, it works. So we were wasting one drop of solder, which might not make a shit of difference when the business is, you know, making a couple thousand. That business went up scaling 10, 20, 30x. Makes a huge difference. All of these people, they're obsessed with their business. They're in the details.
Try 38. Okay, I tried 38. It leaked. Okay, try 39. Oh, 39, it works. So we were wasting one drop of solder, which might not make a shit of difference when the business is, you know, making a couple thousand. That business went up scaling 10, 20, 30x. Makes a huge difference. All of these people, they're obsessed with their business. They're in the details.
Another thing that Todd Graves said that was very fascinating, he's like, I had all these experts tell him, hey, Like you should delegate. And he has the funny sign. He goes, delegate? What does that word even mean? He goes, what kind of word is that? Right? Because he was literally being interviewed in one of the podcasts I use as a source material to make mine.
Another thing that Todd Graves said that was very fascinating, he's like, I had all these experts tell him, hey, Like you should delegate. And he has the funny sign. He goes, delegate? What does that word even mean? He goes, what kind of word is that? Right? Because he was literally being interviewed in one of the podcasts I use as a source material to make mine.
And he's, again, this happened, you know, in the last few months, maybe a year ago. And he stops the interview to look at the Instagram reel because they just had an event. I think they were like throwing a Super Bowl party or something like that. And he's like, I'm going to watch it before it goes out. I don't think of Todd Graves. I think of Steve Jobs.
And he's, again, this happened, you know, in the last few months, maybe a year ago. And he stops the interview to look at the Instagram reel because they just had an event. I think they were like throwing a Super Bowl party or something like that. And he's like, I'm going to watch it before it goes out. I don't think of Todd Graves. I think of Steve Jobs.
Every Wednesday, having a three-hour meeting in Apple, reviewing every single ad that goes out. Nothing went out of Apple. Not a billboard in Missouri, not a what's on their landing page without Steve looking at it. There's a guy that wrote the book called, I think it's called Insanely Simple. I think his name is Ken Siegel, if I'm correct about that.
Every Wednesday, having a three-hour meeting in Apple, reviewing every single ad that goes out. Nothing went out of Apple. Not a billboard in Missouri, not a what's on their landing page without Steve looking at it. There's a guy that wrote the book called, I think it's called Insanely Simple. I think his name is Ken Siegel, if I'm correct about that.
He was running, he was the ad executive for the marketing company, the ad company that Steve was using. And he said, Steve would call me at midnight and we'd have to talk for an hour about a single word. That's obsession. That's loving what you do. That's taking what you do very seriously. I don't care if it's building computers, if it's making a podcast, if it's making chicken fingers.
He was running, he was the ad executive for the marketing company, the ad company that Steve was using. And he said, Steve would call me at midnight and we'd have to talk for an hour about a single word. That's obsession. That's loving what you do. That's taking what you do very seriously. I don't care if it's building computers, if it's making a podcast, if it's making chicken fingers.
I just love people that take what they do seriously.
I just love people that take what they do seriously.
You can change the name of a podcast. I can log into my podcast host and change founders to whatever I want. Whatever. You can't change the URL slug for the RSS feed for the first name you picked. And the first name I picked for founders was telling you from day one. Back in 2016, the name of the podcast was called Autotelic.
You can change the name of a podcast. I can log into my podcast host and change founders to whatever I want. Whatever. You can't change the URL slug for the RSS feed for the first name you picked. And the first name I picked for founders was telling you from day one. Back in 2016, the name of the podcast was called Autotelic.
Autotelic, the definition of that is an activity done for the sake of itself. I was telling you from the rip, I don't care if nobody listens. I need to do this. I got some advice the other day, and they're like, this reminded me of Ted Graves. Henry Ford has the exact same thing about experts, people outside of your business try to give you advice. And this is why I read Twitter.
Autotelic, the definition of that is an activity done for the sake of itself. I was telling you from the rip, I don't care if nobody listens. I need to do this. I got some advice the other day, and they're like, this reminded me of Ted Graves. Henry Ford has the exact same thing about experts, people outside of your business try to give you advice. And this is why I read Twitter.
I'm like, these people, sorry, I'm not going to read that tweet. I'll just listen to what Steve Jobs said. He probably has better advice than this random fucking guy on Twitter. And so somebody goes, hey, I have a great idea for you. Have you ever thought about hiring other people to read the books for you? Like, that's not what I'm doing it for. I'm not taking the easy way.
I'm like, these people, sorry, I'm not going to read that tweet. I'll just listen to what Steve Jobs said. He probably has better advice than this random fucking guy on Twitter. And so somebody goes, hey, I have a great idea for you. Have you ever thought about hiring other people to read the books for you? Like, that's not what I'm doing it for. I'm not taking the easy way.
The hard, I love what Jerry Seinfeld said, the hard way is the right way. And so I told them a story. And this is the line that, this is my response to this. And this is a line that I say, it's like, you don't work all your life to do what you love to not do it. And all I know is that person doesn't have a mission. They don't have a love. That's fine. Most people never do.
The hard, I love what Jerry Seinfeld said, the hard way is the right way. And so I told them a story. And this is the line that, this is my response to this. And this is a line that I say, it's like, you don't work all your life to do what you love to not do it. And all I know is that person doesn't have a mission. They don't have a love. That's fine. Most people never do.
But I don't go around giving advice to people about what they should be doing. It's the weird thing where the source of this advice comes from. And I remember reading about Charles Schultz, the guy. I was a fucking kid. And I'd read. Charlie Brown and Peanuts. Every Christmas we'd watch Charlie Brown's Christmas. Yeah, so I think he came out in the 1960s.
But I don't go around giving advice to people about what they should be doing. It's the weird thing where the source of this advice comes from. And I remember reading about Charles Schultz, the guy. I was a fucking kid. And I'd read. Charlie Brown and Peanuts. Every Christmas we'd watch Charlie Brown's Christmas. Yeah, so I think he came out in the 1960s.
And so I was like, oh, I'm going to read his biography. And then you read it and it's like crazy. It's like the guy ran, I'm going to, these are approximately right. He ran the comic strip for like, let's say 40 or 50 years. He drew, drew, came up with the idea,
And so I was like, oh, I'm going to read his biography. And then you read it and it's like crazy. It's like the guy ran, I'm going to, these are approximately right. He ran the comic strip for like, let's say 40 or 50 years. He drew, drew, came up with the idea,
penciled everything drew anything every single strip over 50 years i think it was 17 000 different individual ones that he did uh he had already had one plan so when he dies this is the last no one can ever take it over when i die this is what you put out like when i die this is the last one that's ever published and people would go through it if i remember correctly living somewhere in california to come to our studio at the time he's a much older man he's like 67 years old and they're like
penciled everything drew anything every single strip over 50 years i think it was 17 000 different individual ones that he did uh he had already had one plan so when he dies this is the last no one can ever take it over when i die this is what you put out like when i die this is the last one that's ever published and people would go through it if i remember correctly living somewhere in california to come to our studio at the time he's a much older man he's like 67 years old and they're like
Well, who's doing this? He's like, what do you mean who's doing this? He's like, me. And these people touring the street couldn't wrap their head. Like, well, could you hire somebody else to do it so then you could take a vacation or you could take some time off? And that was his line. He's like, you couldn't understand why they were asking him that.
Well, who's doing this? He's like, what do you mean who's doing this? He's like, me. And these people touring the street couldn't wrap their head. Like, well, could you hire somebody else to do it so then you could take a vacation or you could take some time off? And that was his line. He's like, you couldn't understand why they were asking him that.
And he's like, but you don't work your entire life to do what you love to not do it. That's why I think thinking a long time, you know, most of this is trial and error. Some people find what they love to do really early. Like I think of Kobe Bryant, the episodes are done on him. He's 12 years old. He would tell you, I'm going to be the best basketball player of all time.
And he's like, but you don't work your entire life to do what you love to not do it. That's why I think thinking a long time, you know, most of this is trial and error. Some people find what they love to do really early. Like I think of Kobe Bryant, the episodes are done on him. He's 12 years old. He would tell you, I'm going to be the best basketball player of all time.
No one finds what they love to do at 12. I'm working on this Michael Dell episode right now. You could see from 12 years old, the guy was a moneymaker, he's obsessed with computers. There's a part in the story that's great where he takes apart an IBM and he has this realization. He says, wait a minute, IBM's selling the computer, but they don't make any of the components.
No one finds what they love to do at 12. I'm working on this Michael Dell episode right now. You could see from 12 years old, the guy was a moneymaker, he's obsessed with computers. There's a part in the story that's great where he takes apart an IBM and he has this realization. He says, wait a minute, IBM's selling the computer, but they don't make any of the components.
And you just see as a little kid, it's like, hmm, there might be an opportunity here that he's going to pursue later on. And then he gets in trouble in class because he's not paying attention to class, he's just reading computer magazines. He's telling you. what his life is going to be. You just have to listen. And every single person has something like that. They just don't fucking listen.
And you just see as a little kid, it's like, hmm, there might be an opportunity here that he's going to pursue later on. And then he gets in trouble in class because he's not paying attention to class, he's just reading computer magazines. He's telling you. what his life is going to be. You just have to listen. And every single person has something like that. They just don't fucking listen.
They don't listen to themselves.
They don't listen to themselves.
like a weight off your shoulders that like, I can't describe it. And then from there, that doesn't mean like, oh, I wake up, you know, that's like, I'm kind of a tortured person. Like, so there was a clip of me on another podcast. I just went out and the person's like, you know, the podcast is good. If the host looks sleep deprived, I'm like, that's as good as I can look. Okay.
like a weight off your shoulders that like, I can't describe it. And then from there, that doesn't mean like, oh, I wake up, you know, that's like, I'm kind of a tortured person. Like, so there was a clip of me on another podcast. I just went out and the person's like, you know, the podcast is good. If the host looks sleep deprived, I'm like, that's as good as I can look. Okay.
Cause that's like my sleep score on my eight sleep right now is like 60. Like it's not, I'm not doing well because I am completely obsessed with what I'm doing. And I, you know, it's weird. Like people keep telling me, it's like, Like you shouldn't be obsessed with this like low status. I was like, you're wrong. I don't- It's high status now. Yeah, but I don't even hear it.
Cause that's like my sleep score on my eight sleep right now is like 60. Like it's not, I'm not doing well because I am completely obsessed with what I'm doing. And I, you know, it's weird. Like people keep telling me, it's like, Like you shouldn't be obsessed with this like low status. I was like, you're wrong. I don't- It's high status now. Yeah, but I don't even hear it.
Cause I'm like, I know exactly who I am and I know exactly what I want to do. And we talk about this. We have mutual friends that like, they're kind of so obsessed to their detriment about like, what will somebody else think of me? Or like, if I do X, well, like I'm worried about the public perception or what my friends will think of me. I don't think about that at all. There's a great line.
Cause I'm like, I know exactly who I am and I know exactly what I want to do. And we talk about this. We have mutual friends that like, they're kind of so obsessed to their detriment about like, what will somebody else think of me? Or like, if I do X, well, like I'm worried about the public perception or what my friends will think of me. I don't think about that at all. There's a great line.
The reason that- Like people are surprised with some of the people that I want to meet that are still living. And so I have like, you know, a list. And in the top three of that list is a guy named Jimmy Iovine. Me and you share a love for that Defiant Ones. Defiant Ones documentary, Last Dance, Defiant Ones. Like those are the best documentaries. I watch them over and over again.
The reason that- Like people are surprised with some of the people that I want to meet that are still living. And so I have like, you know, a list. And in the top three of that list is a guy named Jimmy Iovine. Me and you share a love for that Defiant Ones. Defiant Ones documentary, Last Dance, Defiant Ones. Like those are the best documentaries. I watch them over and over again.
And Jimmy Iovine has this great line. He's just like, when you're running after something, he goes, they do this great editing job where it shows horses on a racetrack. And it goes back and forth between that and Jimmy. And Jimmy's like, you know why they put fucking blinders on those horses? And he goes, because if they look left or right, they'll miss a step. And humans should have that too.
And Jimmy Iovine has this great line. He's just like, when you're running after something, he goes, they do this great editing job where it shows horses on a racetrack. And it goes back and forth between that and Jimmy. And Jimmy's like, you know why they put fucking blinders on those horses? And he goes, because if they look left or right, they'll miss a step. And humans should have that too.
When you're chasing after something, don't look left, don't look right, go. And that's why I wake up every day. We talked about this when we did that live show in New York City. It was obvious if you read the books that the great entrepreneurs, once they find what they love to do, low to zero introspection. Now, they think deeply about their business, but they wake up every morning.
When you're chasing after something, don't look left, don't look right, go. And that's why I wake up every day. We talked about this when we did that live show in New York City. It was obvious if you read the books that the great entrepreneurs, once they find what they love to do, low to zero introspection. Now, they think deeply about their business, but they wake up every morning.
They're not wondering, like, what should I do today? They know exactly what they're doing. And to find that, for me to know I'm going to wake up and do this for as long as I have a voice, I have eyes, like, hopefully I have life. Like, that's an unbelievable belief. Now... because it's your mission and because I'm also super competitive and kind of a little crazy.
They're not wondering, like, what should I do today? They know exactly what they're doing. And to find that, for me to know I'm going to wake up and do this for as long as I have a voice, I have eyes, like, hopefully I have life. Like, that's an unbelievable belief. Now... because it's your mission and because I'm also super competitive and kind of a little crazy.
Our mutual friend, Daniel Eck, has the greatest line he told me. He's just like, one of the reasons I like you so much is because you're like an LLM trained on history's greatest entrepreneurs with the temperature turned up. It's like, yeah, obviously like some people are not going to like that and that's fine. Then you, you kind of torture.
Our mutual friend, Daniel Eck, has the greatest line he told me. He's just like, one of the reasons I like you so much is because you're like an LLM trained on history's greatest entrepreneurs with the temperature turned up. It's like, yeah, obviously like some people are not going to like that and that's fine. Then you, you kind of torture.
I did this episode on Jensen Wong and he has a great thing where he doesn't like to fire people. He's like, I'd rather to torture them into greatness. And then you realize when you, how he goes about his life, he actually tortured himself into greatness. You know, even this is in recent few years, they tell a great story. Blowout quarter. Company's doing incredible.
I did this episode on Jensen Wong and he has a great thing where he doesn't like to fire people. He's like, I'd rather to torture them into greatness. And then you realize when you, how he goes about his life, he actually tortured himself into greatness. You know, even this is in recent few years, they tell a great story. Blowout quarter. Company's doing incredible.
And he walks into the meeting and goes, every morning I wake up, look at myself in the mirror and say, why do you suck so much?
And he walks into the meeting and goes, every morning I wake up, look at myself in the mirror and say, why do you suck so much?
They're all like this. They're all like this.
They're all like this. They're all like this.
That's not why I did it though. Because that's what I believe them to be. I like... I appreciate that you thought it was click-baity. I'm not trying to click-bait anybody. Although Todd Graves and his $10 billion chicken finger dream is probably good. That's a banger episode. What I mean by anti, and it really should be anti-business as usual billionaires. And again, I mind my own business.
That's not why I did it though. Because that's what I believe them to be. I like... I appreciate that you thought it was click-baity. I'm not trying to click-bait anybody. Although Todd Graves and his $10 billion chicken finger dream is probably good. That's a banger episode. What I mean by anti, and it really should be anti-business as usual billionaires. And again, I mind my own business.
I don't care. If people say, I want to wake up and all I'm going to do is take a pile of money and make it into a bigger pile of money and they love it, cool. I have no opinion what you're doing. The people I most admire, the people that I'm trying to powder myself off of, is these people where it's like they're so obsessed about the product quality, right? And there's three people in that video.
I don't care. If people say, I want to wake up and all I'm going to do is take a pile of money and make it into a bigger pile of money and they love it, cool. I have no opinion what you're doing. The people I most admire, the people that I'm trying to powder myself off of, is these people where it's like they're so obsessed about the product quality, right? And there's three people in that video.
It's Yvon Chouinard, James Dyson, and Steve Jobs, right? One guy's making outdoor equipment, one guy's making high technology, and one guy's making fucking vacuum cleaners, okay? But there's the exact same approach where it's like the reasons company exists, and Jobs has said this multiple times, where the only reason to start a company is because of the product, right?
It's Yvon Chouinard, James Dyson, and Steve Jobs, right? One guy's making outdoor equipment, one guy's making high technology, and one guy's making fucking vacuum cleaners, okay? But there's the exact same approach where it's like the reasons company exists, and Jobs has said this multiple times, where the only reason to start a company is because of the product, right?
And then like you, so the company needs to assemble all the resources, but the product is, we exist to make the product. And then of course you, he talks about profitability a lot because the profits allow you to keep making the product. Everything starts from the product.
And then like you, so the company needs to assemble all the resources, but the product is, we exist to make the product. And then of course you, he talks about profitability a lot because the profits allow you to keep making the product. Everything starts from the product.
So everything I do, the reason I still do every single social media post, the reason I answer all my emails, the reason I don't have an assistant, the reason I don't have an editor is because I'm trying to make the world's best product. I feel my podcast is a handmade product. artisanal, but it just happens to be like technology and infinite leverage.
So everything I do, the reason I still do every single social media post, the reason I answer all my emails, the reason I don't have an assistant, the reason I don't have an editor is because I'm trying to make the world's best product. I feel my podcast is a handmade product. artisanal, but it just happens to be like technology and infinite leverage.
You know, same amount of work is going to go into it if one person listens or 10 million people listen. And I'm trying to build what drives me and I think annoys most of the people that are around me because I can be like pretty fucking stubborn about this is that I want to make the best product in the world based on what I like for the best people in the world.
You know, same amount of work is going to go into it if one person listens or 10 million people listen. And I'm trying to build what drives me and I think annoys most of the people that are around me because I can be like pretty fucking stubborn about this is that I want to make the best product in the world based on what I like for the best people in the world.
The very first time we talked, you kind of, and this is when I had like, I think like 3000 people listening back then. And you kind of nailed it on our first talk. You're like, oh, you built it. Like you're going to win by default. You built this polling mechanism in the founder ecosystem. Like by the time people try to do it now, they're going to try to catch, they'll never be able to catch you.
The very first time we talked, you kind of, and this is when I had like, I think like 3000 people listening back then. And you kind of nailed it on our first talk. You're like, oh, you built it. Like you're going to win by default. You built this polling mechanism in the founder ecosystem. Like by the time people try to do it now, they're going to try to catch, they'll never be able to catch you.
But I, it's really important to me as a competitive person that I build the best product for the best people in the world. I am not interested. I've told this story before. I know Mr. Beast, Jimmy, he's been very nice to me. He tweets about the podcast. It's very nice. He's invited me to go to his headquarters and he's like, you can use our studio to record here. We'll help you with the script.
But I, it's really important to me as a competitive person that I build the best product for the best people in the world. I am not interested. I've told this story before. I know Mr. Beast, Jimmy, he's been very nice to me. He tweets about the podcast. It's very nice. He's invited me to go to his headquarters and he's like, you can use our studio to record here. We'll help you with the script.
Jimmy, there's no script. We'll give you data analytics people. I don't even know how many fucking people listen to the podcast. I don't look at analytics. I build what I want for me. So the reason I have to edit it is because when this is done, I listen to it, it's the Stephen King thing. I am not just the writer, I am the first reader. That's what Stephen King said.
Jimmy, there's no script. We'll give you data analytics people. I don't even know how many fucking people listen to the podcast. I don't look at analytics. I build what I want for me. So the reason I have to edit it is because when this is done, I listen to it, it's the Stephen King thing. I am not just the writer, I am the first reader. That's what Stephen King said.
Quentin Tarantino says, people are like, when you make a movie, do you have an audience of mine? He's like, yeah, me, I'm making it for me.
Quentin Tarantino says, people are like, when you make a movie, do you have an audience of mine? He's like, yeah, me, I'm making it for me.
I've been thinking about this recently and it applies specifically to the fact that I'm covering people that build companies. And what I realized is like, I've never been around impressive people in my entire life, right? We talked about this the very first time I was on your podcast. No one in my family even graduated high school, much less college.
I've been thinking about this recently and it applies specifically to the fact that I'm covering people that build companies. And what I realized is like, I've never been around impressive people in my entire life, right? We talked about this the very first time I was on your podcast. No one in my family even graduated high school, much less college.
So it's like, I never saw examples of great people. And then you add to the fact that my father, like I'm the son of a Cuban immigrant, I grew up meeting people that risked their lives and came over here on a raft And it's like kind of weird. Hey, like you have, like we both have kids. We love them more than life itself. Like I would die for my kids. Everybody would die for their kids.
So it's like, I never saw examples of great people. And then you add to the fact that my father, like I'm the son of a Cuban immigrant, I grew up meeting people that risked their lives and came over here on a raft And it's like kind of weird. Hey, like you have, like we both have kids. We love them more than life itself. Like I would die for my kids. Everybody would die for their kids.
And it's like things were so bad in your country that you risked your 14-year-old son's life and put him on a boat Like how bad does it have to be? And I'm like, well, let's go to the Miami beach. How many people, how many Americans are getting on a raft and going, that's a one way trip.
And it's like things were so bad in your country that you risked your 14-year-old son's life and put him on a boat Like how bad does it have to be? And I'm like, well, let's go to the Miami beach. How many people, how many Americans are getting on a raft and going, that's a one way trip.
So that tells you something is very special about where we live and very, very bad about where they're coming from. And when I realized it's like not being, not being an educated family, parents never having money, like being terrified, growing up terrified, being a loser. It's like entrepreneurship is a miracle. Capitalism is a miracle.
So that tells you something is very special about where we live and very, very bad about where they're coming from. And when I realized it's like not being, not being an educated family, parents never having money, like being terrified, growing up terrified, being a loser. It's like entrepreneurship is a miracle. Capitalism is a miracle.
Where I meet some of these other people, where they're like, they might be the son or the grandson of somebody really wealthy, and you'll find like a weird high correlation for like, almost like socialistic like perspectives. And I was like, this is so crazy to me. Just like my wife's from Columbia. Like no one, no one in South America is like that made it to America.
Where I meet some of these other people, where they're like, they might be the son or the grandson of somebody really wealthy, and you'll find like a weird high correlation for like, almost like socialistic like perspectives. And I was like, this is so crazy to me. Just like my wife's from Columbia. Like no one, no one in South America is like that made it to America.
It's like, no, I want to go back there. Like you don't even understand what you have. And so now what I realized about this is like one of the reasons I'm so passionate about this is yeah, I like to read. the most unbroken hobby I've ever had. Yeah, I legitimately think podcasts are miracles. We were at this conference together and you said something really funny.
It's like, no, I want to go back there. Like you don't even understand what you have. And so now what I realized about this is like one of the reasons I'm so passionate about this is yeah, I like to read. the most unbroken hobby I've ever had. Yeah, I legitimately think podcasts are miracles. We were at this conference together and you said something really funny.
You walk over and every time I'm at another table and I'm like, most of the people will listen to the podcast, but if not, I would grab their phone. You saw me installing it and you had a quip. You're like, I wish I could find a way to make money for David's ability to turn every conversation back to podcasting. It's like 14 really successful capital allocators and me.
You walk over and every time I'm at another table and I'm like, most of the people will listen to the podcast, but if not, I would grab their phone. You saw me installing it and you had a quip. You're like, I wish I could find a way to make money for David's ability to turn every conversation back to podcasting. It's like 14 really successful capital allocators and me.
I don't even know what the hell I was doing there. The root cause is like, I really believe entrepreneurship is a miracle. The fact that anybody could say, hey, I have an idea that makes somebody else's life better. Because that's the best, that's all business is. Business is just an idea that makes somebody else's life better. No one can stop me from doing it to delivering value to other people.
I don't even know what the hell I was doing there. The root cause is like, I really believe entrepreneurship is a miracle. The fact that anybody could say, hey, I have an idea that makes somebody else's life better. Because that's the best, that's all business is. Business is just an idea that makes somebody else's life better. No one can stop me from doing it to delivering value to other people.
And then if I deliver the more value I deliver to the higher number of people that generates wealth. What? Imagine going back to, you know, I might do this episode on Genghis Khan, like the 1100s and saying like, you could be the richest person in the world and you could, you invented a button and you know, press that button and anything is delivered to that.
And then if I deliver the more value I deliver to the higher number of people that generates wealth. What? Imagine going back to, you know, I might do this episode on Genghis Khan, like the 1100s and saying like, you could be the richest person in the world and you could, you invented a button and you know, press that button and anything is delivered to that.
Or like any other, Sam Walton, I told the story. I was in Miami Beach Marine on a friend's boat. And I was like, that boat's huge, who owns that boat? And I look it up, it's like Sam Walton's niece. And I'm like, this guy, I had like this great experience. I'm looking at this giant boat, it's probably, I don't know, $300 million, some crazy number like that.
Or like any other, Sam Walton, I told the story. I was in Miami Beach Marine on a friend's boat. And I was like, that boat's huge, who owns that boat? And I look it up, it's like Sam Walton's niece. And I'm like, this guy, I had like this great experience. I'm looking at this giant boat, it's probably, I don't know, $300 million, some crazy number like that.
And I'm like, and it came from your uncle just realizing, hey, if I just deliver everyday low prices, again, another simple idea taken very seriously, everyday low prices. No one's going to beat us on pricing. So how do you work backwards from that idea? There's all kinds of technologies, there's logistics, there's talent. All those other stuff is very difficult.
And I'm like, and it came from your uncle just realizing, hey, if I just deliver everyday low prices, again, another simple idea taken very seriously, everyday low prices. No one's going to beat us on pricing. So how do you work backwards from that idea? There's all kinds of technologies, there's logistics, there's talent. All those other stuff is very difficult.
The idea is simple, but the implementation is very difficult. And look what you can generate. And people shit on Walmart. I had to shop at Walmart when I grew up. Like I'm not shopping there now, but like they did a service for my family and for millions of people. It's like they destroyed Main Street businesses. It's like we couldn't afford to not shop at Walmart. It's a miracle that he gave.
The idea is simple, but the implementation is very difficult. And look what you can generate. And people shit on Walmart. I had to shop at Walmart when I grew up. Like I'm not shopping there now, but like they did a service for my family and for millions of people. It's like they destroyed Main Street businesses. It's like we couldn't afford to not shop at Walmart. It's a miracle that he gave.
And what's the byproduct of that? By making, I don't know, how many people do you think shop at Walmart? Billions by now? That's a lot. Billions. Everyone at some point. Yeah. He deserves that money. Good. I'm glad he got that money.
And what's the byproduct of that? By making, I don't know, how many people do you think shop at Walmart? Billions by now? That's a lot. Billions. Everyone at some point. Yeah. He deserves that money. Good. I'm glad he got that money.
I don't even know if I can, I have a good answer to that question. Other than there is something that I think is And two other lines from Monger. Again, I go back to him where it's like, he says intense interest in any subject is necessary for like to master it. He has a better line. I'm messing that up. And then he says, follow your natural drift.
I don't even know if I can, I have a good answer to that question. Other than there is something that I think is And two other lines from Monger. Again, I go back to him where it's like, he says intense interest in any subject is necessary for like to master it. He has a better line. I'm messing that up. And then he says, follow your natural drift.
You know, we talk about this all the time where when I describe you to other people, I'm like, well, you have to understand Patrick is doing invest like the best episodes all day long, every day, like 10 times a day. He just doesn't record them. He's just naturally curious. He will, he just want, he's curious around other people in the way that I am frankly not, right? I'm interested in books.
You know, we talk about this all the time where when I describe you to other people, I'm like, well, you have to understand Patrick is doing invest like the best episodes all day long, every day, like 10 times a day. He just doesn't record them. He's just naturally curious. He will, he just want, he's curious around other people in the way that I am frankly not, right? I'm interested in books.
I don't, I can't like deal with, you know, people. It's why I work alone in general. Like obviously I have a handful of very close people, but. I just think, I don't know why. There's a great line. So I just did this Ken and Griffin episode and I made the point in the episode I think is really important is like, I'm not interested in timely. I'm interested in timeless.
I don't, I can't like deal with, you know, people. It's why I work alone in general. Like obviously I have a handful of very close people, but. I just think, I don't know why. There's a great line. So I just did this Ken and Griffin episode and I made the point in the episode I think is really important is like, I'm not interested in timely. I'm interested in timeless.
And so there's no book on Ken. There's a bunch of great stories spread throughout the internet that I use as source material. And then I listened to every single thing I could find, all these talks. And most of the interviews he does is like, what do people want to know? What do What do you think about the market? What do you think about this president?
And so there's no book on Ken. There's a bunch of great stories spread throughout the internet that I use as source material. And then I listened to every single thing I could find, all these talks. And most of the interviews he does is like, what do people want to know? What do What do you think about the market? What do you think about this president?
But I did find, like he had this hour long talk at Yale, highly recommend listening to it, where it's like more like almost like an oral biography, like more timeless principles. And then I transcribed that. And then, you know, I listened to, I don't know, 30 other hours of him talking. And I'd maybe only made like five or 10 other notes, something small, but something he said is very fascinating.
But I did find, like he had this hour long talk at Yale, highly recommend listening to it, where it's like more like almost like an oral biography, like more timeless principles. And then I transcribed that. And then, you know, I listened to, I don't know, 30 other hours of him talking. And I'd maybe only made like five or 10 other notes, something small, but something he said is very fascinating.
He's like, for reasons I don't quite understand, since I was in the third grade, I've been obsessed with the stock market. How does it work? How do you make money? What are the problems you can solve? And that line, for reasons I don't understand, I truly believe that Jeff Bezos nailed it when he said, you don't pick your passions, your passions choose you.
He's like, for reasons I don't quite understand, since I was in the third grade, I've been obsessed with the stock market. How does it work? How do you make money? What are the problems you can solve? And that line, for reasons I don't understand, I truly believe that Jeff Bezos nailed it when he said, you don't pick your passions, your passions choose you.
You don't choose your passions, your passions choose you. I was not like, you know, at five years old wondering like, what's a good hobby for self-development in my future? Maybe I should read. I just read. I told you the first time we talked. Like my mom, before she died, she said, I would read the back of cereal boxes. I have no idea.
You don't choose your passions, your passions choose you. I was not like, you know, at five years old wondering like, what's a good hobby for self-development in my future? Maybe I should read. I just read. I told you the first time we talked. Like my mom, before she died, she said, I would read the back of cereal boxes. I have no idea.
And so all I do is like, I'm just intensely interested in everything that I'm learning. And then I like the craftsmanship. I heard, there's an idea that Ken has that, again, I think is an entire reason that Founders is valuable. There's a podcast. He says, you really, you want to know what's going on in your business.
And so all I do is like, I'm just intensely interested in everything that I'm learning. And then I like the craftsmanship. I heard, there's an idea that Ken has that, again, I think is an entire reason that Founders is valuable. There's a podcast. He says, you really, you want to know what's going on in your business.
You want to study your competitors, but you really should be grabbing ideas from other businesses far afield from your industry. And he told this story about a way to mitigate his risk. And he got an idea from Saudi Aramco. Saudi Aramco and Citadel, very different businesses, right? What was the idea? Okay, so I'll explain this. Make sure I don't forget that because I'm in the middle of the weave.
You want to study your competitors, but you really should be grabbing ideas from other businesses far afield from your industry. And he told this story about a way to mitigate his risk. And he got an idea from Saudi Aramco. Saudi Aramco and Citadel, very different businesses, right? What was the idea? Okay, so I'll explain this. Make sure I don't forget that because I'm in the middle of the weave.
So he uses the term, I think they were like a B player in risk. They weren't doing well in risk. And he was still in Chicago at the time. And he goes and visits Saudi Aramco and he sees this giant screen on a wall in their headquarters there. And it's like 30 feet long, 10 feet wide.
So he uses the term, I think they were like a B player in risk. They weren't doing well in risk. And he was still in Chicago at the time. And he goes and visits Saudi Aramco and he sees this giant screen on a wall in their headquarters there. And it's like 30 feet long, 10 feet wide.
And it has all the most important data, not like a hundred things, but like where the ships are, how many barrels of oil we're producing, like the handful of metrics. And they just look at it all day. Yeah, their distillation. Exactly. What's going to happen? Like you look at it all day, like then you're going to improve it, right? And he's like, oh, what if we took all the important risk metrics
And it has all the most important data, not like a hundred things, but like where the ships are, how many barrels of oil we're producing, like the handful of metrics. And they just look at it all day. Yeah, their distillation. Exactly. What's going to happen? Like you look at it all day, like then you're going to improve it, right? And he's like, oh, what if we took all the important risk metrics
metrics and put a giant wall in our headquarters. And he said it took him from like, you know, a B player to like one of the best in their field. And his whole advice was like, you really need to be taking ideas that are far afield of like your own industry. And you know, that's what you do when you read a book. Like, I'm not going to build Walmart. I'm not going to build Ferrari.
metrics and put a giant wall in our headquarters. And he said it took him from like, you know, a B player to like one of the best in their field. And his whole advice was like, you really need to be taking ideas that are far afield of like your own industry. And you know, that's what you do when you read a book. Like, I'm not going to build Walmart. I'm not going to build Ferrari.
I'm not building Apple. I'm building my podcast. But there's all these ideas that I can take from them. So as I've exposed myself to that, I just find like little ideas that I can use in the craftsmanship of the product. And one of the main ideas goes back to your question about the anti-billion dollar anti-business billionaires. The reason I say, and I do this same book over and over again.
I'm not building Apple. I'm building my podcast. But there's all these ideas that I can take from them. So as I've exposed myself to that, I just find like little ideas that I can use in the craftsmanship of the product. And one of the main ideas goes back to your question about the anti-billion dollar anti-business billionaires. The reason I say, and I do this same book over and over again.
So I've done an episode 25, episode 200, episode 300, and it'll be episode 400. It's James Dyson's first autobiography called Against the Odds. It took him 14 years, 5,127 prototypes until he got the world's first cyclonic vacuum cleaner that he owned 100% of that was up to his standards. And so all I'm trying to figure out is just like, can I make something that I would listen to?
So I've done an episode 25, episode 200, episode 300, and it'll be episode 400. It's James Dyson's first autobiography called Against the Odds. It took him 14 years, 5,127 prototypes until he got the world's first cyclonic vacuum cleaner that he owned 100% of that was up to his standards. And so all I'm trying to figure out is just like, can I make something that I would listen to?
I don't know any other way. And so last week I actually had to republish an old episode, which is still a great episode. But the reason was because I read a book where I found the person I did not like and I don't want to spend any time in his mind. So I'm not going to make an episode on him because not only did I have to finish reading the book, which I threw across the fucking room, but...
I don't know any other way. And so last week I actually had to republish an old episode, which is still a great episode. But the reason was because I read a book where I found the person I did not like and I don't want to spend any time in his mind. So I'm not going to make an episode on him because not only did I have to finish reading the book, which I threw across the fucking room, but...
then I have to spend another, you know, probably this one together. If it's the one I think, yes. And then I spent another 30, then I just spent another 30 hours making the podcast. And this is like, I don't, I don't want to be like this person. I'm looking for role models because I didn't have any when I grew up. And then I read a fabulous book.
then I have to spend another, you know, probably this one together. If it's the one I think, yes. And then I spent another 30, then I just spent another 30 hours making the podcast. And this is like, I don't, I don't want to be like this person. I'm looking for role models because I didn't have any when I grew up. And then I read a fabulous book.
I mean, you both read a Pappy land by Wright Thompson. Excellent writing writer too. Yeah. Unbelievable. Yeah. But I couldn't figure out how to make an episode on it because it's about a family business. It's really about a family. And it's really about the relationship between a father and son. And I'm very interested in that relationship.
I mean, you both read a Pappy land by Wright Thompson. Excellent writing writer too. Yeah. Unbelievable. Yeah. But I couldn't figure out how to make an episode on it because it's about a family business. It's really about a family. And it's really about the relationship between a father and son. And I'm very interested in that relationship.
I think it's the most powerful relationship in the world, which I got heckled at one of our live shows when I said that. Why'd you get heckled? I don't remember. They were just like, cause I said it was the most, it's, it's not discounting the relationship between a father and a daughter or mother and daughter.
I think it's the most powerful relationship in the world, which I got heckled at one of our live shows when I said that. Why'd you get heckled? I don't remember. They were just like, cause I said it was the most, it's, it's not discounting the relationship between a father and a daughter or mother and daughter.
It's just like, it's clearly something that pops up in these biographies over and over again, all the time. And he, and Wright has, Wright Thompson has great writing about, you know, relationship that the grandson had with the father and the father with the, there's a lot of family dynamics. Excellent book.
It's just like, it's clearly something that pops up in these biographies over and over again, all the time. And he, and Wright has, Wright Thompson has great writing about, you know, relationship that the grandson had with the father and the father with the, there's a lot of family dynamics. Excellent book.
But I was like, this isn't good enough than the book was, but I can't make anything good enough. So I'm not putting anything out. Nothing.
But I was like, this isn't good enough than the book was, but I can't make anything good enough. So I'm not putting anything out. Nothing.
You have a great line on this. Like you talk to way more people than I do. And I'll ask you about like, oh, is this person, this person reached out and you're like, oh no, he's a casual. Again, I don't care what people do because they're, I know, because I study fucking people's lives for a living.
You have a great line on this. Like you talk to way more people than I do. And I'll ask you about like, oh, is this person, this person reached out and you're like, oh no, he's a casual. Again, I don't care what people do because they're, I know, because I study fucking people's lives for a living.
Like so much of what shapes you is like, happens when you're so young and you can't even describe why you're interested in what you're interested in. But I think the only thing that bothers me is like, There's a great line that I mentioned in the Ovitz episode that mediocrity is invisible until passion shows up and exposes it.
Like so much of what shapes you is like, happens when you're so young and you can't even describe why you're interested in what you're interested in. But I think the only thing that bothers me is like, There's a great line that I mentioned in the Ovitz episode that mediocrity is invisible until passion shows up and exposes it.
And so much of the people that you meet, so many of the products that you deal with, so many of the people, it's just like they're casual. They have a casual affectation about them that I find personally disgusting. And I'm not, again, it's not like I grow on judging people. It's going to make me sound like a terrible human being.
And so much of the people that you meet, so many of the products that you deal with, so many of the people, it's just like they're casual. They have a casual affectation about them that I find personally disgusting. And I'm not, again, it's not like I grow on judging people. It's going to make me sound like a terrible human being.
It's just like, it's a way for me to filter who I want to spend time with. And my favorite people to spend time with, like they're all, they all work in vastly different things, but they take what they do so seriously. And it's not a selfish thing. They're making something that they feel makes somebody else's life better. So the only thing I could think of is like, I don't like the casualness.
It's just like, it's a way for me to filter who I want to spend time with. And my favorite people to spend time with, like they're all, they all work in vastly different things, but they take what they do so seriously. And it's not a selfish thing. They're making something that they feel makes somebody else's life better. So the only thing I could think of is like, I don't like the casualness.
And then I'm not a fan, personally, of the over-financialization of business. I think a lot of people aren't starting companies. They're creating financial instruments, which is fine. But I think you're going to realize these kind of people just don't have enough experience and they haven't read enough biographies to realize you think what you want is money, but what you really want is meaning.
And then I'm not a fan, personally, of the over-financialization of business. I think a lot of people aren't starting companies. They're creating financial instruments, which is fine. But I think you're going to realize these kind of people just don't have enough experience and they haven't read enough biographies to realize you think what you want is money, but what you really want is meaning.
You're going to get the money, and then you're going to be like, why am I so unhappy? Because you're human, and this happens over and over again. That doesn't mean people don't like money, and that obviously solves a lot of benefits, but you're going to feel a lot better.
You're going to get the money, and then you're going to be like, why am I so unhappy? Because you're human, and this happens over and over again. That doesn't mean people don't like money, and that obviously solves a lot of benefits, but you're going to feel a lot better.
Well, now we have like a giant mirror into everybody else's life we never had like this way. Like think of like one good thing about decentralization of media is like there's no gatekeepers. That's also the bad thing in the sense of like now there's somebody just put me onto crazy rich Asians of TikTok. And it is some of the most- I haven't caught that one. Oh, we should, I'll send you some clips.
Well, now we have like a giant mirror into everybody else's life we never had like this way. Like think of like one good thing about decentralization of media is like there's no gatekeepers. That's also the bad thing in the sense of like now there's somebody just put me onto crazy rich Asians of TikTok. And it is some of the most- I haven't caught that one. Oh, we should, I'll send you some clips.
And it's some of the most disgusting behavior. Like one lady is, I guess her parents own, she lives in California, but her parents own one of the largest like cloud computing companies in China. Another one is like some giant, maybe even like, government collusion in Singapore or something like that. But it's like all the videos, all the videos are just straight consumption.
And it's some of the most disgusting behavior. Like one lady is, I guess her parents own, she lives in California, but her parents own one of the largest like cloud computing companies in China. Another one is like some giant, maybe even like, government collusion in Singapore or something like that. But it's like all the videos, all the videos are just straight consumption.
It's look what I got, me and my, and they do this thing where it's like, me and my mom went shopping today and we spent 25,000 at Van Cleef and then we bought a Herme thing and we did this. And it's just like, this is disgusting behavior because you shouldn't take pride in what you consume. That doesn't take skill or talent. You should take pride in what you built.
It's look what I got, me and my, and they do this thing where it's like, me and my mom went shopping today and we spent 25,000 at Van Cleef and then we bought a Herme thing and we did this. And it's just like, this is disgusting behavior because you shouldn't take pride in what you consume. That doesn't take skill or talent. You should take pride in what you built.
That is the most selfish thing you could possibly do. And I'm not, like, dude, like, I'm building, the goal here is to, you know, to change the trajectory of my entire family tree. I'm going to build generational wealth, not so my kids can do that shit. That'll never happen. But to try to teach them, it's like, man, the wealth came because you made somebody else's life better.
That is the most selfish thing you could possibly do. And I'm not, like, dude, like, I'm building, the goal here is to, you know, to change the trajectory of my entire family tree. I'm going to build generational wealth, not so my kids can do that shit. That'll never happen. But to try to teach them, it's like, man, the wealth came because you made somebody else's life better.
You dedicated, it's a selfless act, even if you love it. And this idea that like we are, so I understand that. It's like, so then young people see that and they're like, oh, that I need to figure out how to make money.
You dedicated, it's a selfless act, even if you love it. And this idea that like we are, so I understand that. It's like, so then young people see that and they're like, oh, that I need to figure out how to make money.
And I was like this, like I was so embarrassed when I was younger that I had to like how much I had to work or like I didn't have a car or like all this other stuff that happened to me. I remember being deeply, deeply embarrassed. And then switching from embarrassment to like, almost like relentless self-belief that like I am better than that person.
And I was like this, like I was so embarrassed when I was younger that I had to like how much I had to work or like I didn't have a car or like all this other stuff that happened to me. I remember being deeply, deeply embarrassed. And then switching from embarrassment to like, almost like relentless self-belief that like I am better than that person.
Like I remember going, there was this kid that lived close, like went to the same school as me. It was a public high school. But I remember the crazy story I heard where like, I think, and again, this was like, it's funny when you think of wealth, but like his dad owned like, I don't know, like a hundred dominoes or something. But I just remember they used to take a helicopter to lunch.
Like I remember going, there was this kid that lived close, like went to the same school as me. It was a public high school. But I remember the crazy story I heard where like, I think, and again, this was like, it's funny when you think of wealth, but like his dad owned like, I don't know, like a hundred dominoes or something. But I just remember they used to take a helicopter to lunch.
And I'm like, what? And I remember him bragging about the car. His dad bought him like 120,000 car. He'd park in front of the country club, which obviously I would never even be able to get into the country club. And I remember flipping and I was like, I'm better than that kid. Like I'm smarter than him. I work harder. Like I'm going to fuck him up.
And I'm like, what? And I remember him bragging about the car. His dad bought him like 120,000 car. He'd park in front of the country club, which obviously I would never even be able to get into the country club. And I remember flipping and I was like, I'm better than that kid. Like I'm smarter than him. I work harder. Like I'm going to fuck him up.
And it turned into like this competitive, like I will prove to you that like you, what was handed to you, I will get myself. And there was like some kind of weird drive behind that. But so when I see people like that, where it's just like, you're glorifying the wrong thing.
And it turned into like this competitive, like I will prove to you that like you, what was handed to you, I will get myself. And there was like some kind of weird drive behind that. But so when I see people like that, where it's just like, you're glorifying the wrong thing.
Where like, if you think about, there's this great talk that Steve Jobs gave when he came back to Apple and he's talking about, Apple spends all this money on marketing, you would never know it. It sucks, all your marketing sucks. And he's like, who are the best, what is the best example of marketing? And he talked about Nike. And he's like, what does Nike do?
Where like, if you think about, there's this great talk that Steve Jobs gave when he came back to Apple and he's talking about, Apple spends all this money on marketing, you would never know it. It sucks, all your marketing sucks. And he's like, who are the best, what is the best example of marketing? And he talked about Nike. And he's like, what does Nike do?
He doesn't even talk about like, the shoe has a bunch of, six bubbles or whatever. They glorify great athletes. They glorify great achievement. And so that's why he did the crazy ones ad.
He doesn't even talk about like, the shoe has a bunch of, six bubbles or whatever. They glorify great athletes. They glorify great achievement. And so that's why he did the crazy ones ad.
And so I think that is like, to some degree, what I'm trying to do is like, the reason I make these clips on the anti-business billionaires, the reason I spend so much time talking about these people and the craftsmanship and talk about this guy that is literally a craftsmanship with his chicken fingers is because to some degree, I want to celebrate these people saying, hey, I'm going to dedicate my life to building the best possible product I can and to make somebody else's life better.
And so I think that is like, to some degree, what I'm trying to do is like, the reason I make these clips on the anti-business billionaires, the reason I spend so much time talking about these people and the craftsmanship and talk about this guy that is literally a craftsmanship with his chicken fingers is because to some degree, I want to celebrate these people saying, hey, I'm going to dedicate my life to building the best possible product I can and to make somebody else's life better.
And I'll talk all day long about that and not about the fact that, you know, I'm building a yacht or I'm doing all this other stuff. Like, you can have all these things, but, like, what are you actually proud of? You're not proud of your consumption. Anybody can go to the store and buy that. Not everybody can build a truly great product.
And I'll talk all day long about that and not about the fact that, you know, I'm building a yacht or I'm doing all this other stuff. Like, you can have all these things, but, like, what are you actually proud of? You're not proud of your consumption. Anybody can go to the store and buy that. Not everybody can build a truly great product.
Again, I'd go back to those three, Yvon Chouinard, James Dyson, and Steve Jobs. I think they have all these lessons in that. Yvon Chouinard calls it nonfiction marketing. He's like, if you have a shit product, like you have to like dress it up. You have to put, you have to have a mascot. You have to hire these expensive advertising companies. You know, you have to make up all this stuff.
Again, I'd go back to those three, Yvon Chouinard, James Dyson, and Steve Jobs. I think they have all these lessons in that. Yvon Chouinard calls it nonfiction marketing. He's like, if you have a shit product, like you have to like dress it up. You have to put, you have to have a mascot. You have to hire these expensive advertising companies. You know, you have to make up all this stuff.
It's all fiction. But if you just, in his thing, he didn't even want to be a billionaire. He just like, hey, I'm going to, again, he built the product for himself. He was a mountaineer. He was, he spends all his time outdoors. He fishes, he mountain, he skis, he climbs mountains. He does all these super risky sports. All the gear I'm using sucks. I'm going to make the gear that I use.
It's all fiction. But if you just, in his thing, he didn't even want to be a billionaire. He just like, hey, I'm going to, again, he built the product for himself. He was a mountaineer. He was, he spends all his time outdoors. He fishes, he mountain, he skis, he climbs mountains. He does all these super risky sports. All the gear I'm using sucks. I'm going to make the gear that I use.
And guess what? If I make the best gear, then everybody's like, where'd you get that? Oh, that's good too. And it takes- His best friend. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And that'll compound again, if you don't sell after five years or four years or do anything that puts in jeopardy the durability of your company. And so I think about James Dyson, he has this great line and I'll paraphrase, but-
And guess what? If I make the best gear, then everybody's like, where'd you get that? Oh, that's good too. And it takes- His best friend. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And that'll compound again, if you don't sell after five years or four years or do anything that puts in jeopardy the durability of your company. And so I think about James Dyson, he has this great line and I'll paraphrase, but-
How he wants to spend his time, he wants to invent. He wants to be as close as possible to the design of the product, the manufacturing of the product. He will be on the line of the product, even in his 70s, right?
How he wants to spend his time, he wants to invent. He wants to be as close as possible to the design of the product, the manufacturing of the product. He will be on the line of the product, even in his 70s, right?
But what he realized is like, after he's done making the product, he's the one that went around the world and sold the product because he's like, the creator is the only person that can explain what went into the process of the thinking behind it. And then with his full heart, he said something like that, with the full heart and complete belief in what he's saying,
But what he realized is like, after he's done making the product, he's the one that went around the world and sold the product because he's like, the creator is the only person that can explain what went into the process of the thinking behind it. And then with his full heart, he said something like that, with the full heart and complete belief in what he's saying,
foisted upon other people at a high price. Because he knows, hey, yeah, you can go and buy a vacuum cleaner for $40 or $600. Guess what? In my house, I have a Dyson. It's the best vacuum cleaner. It just is. And I'm asking you to pay 10x for what you can get anywhere else. Why? And I can tell you what went into it. The blood, sweat, and tears. I kind of reject this like,
foisted upon other people at a high price. Because he knows, hey, yeah, you can go and buy a vacuum cleaner for $40 or $600. Guess what? In my house, I have a Dyson. It's the best vacuum cleaner. It just is. And I'm asking you to pay 10x for what you can get anywhere else. Why? And I can tell you what went into it. The blood, sweat, and tears. I kind of reject this like,
purely rational like the way people like they they try to analyze business in a rational way which is weird to me because humans are nothing but irrational and they give money for reasons they can't describe and some of this like why would somebody pay you know i love this this thing that uh you see with like enzo ferrari you guys did a great post about this when you did a ferrari episode and it showed like the racetrack the test track and they're like there's a test track and then
purely rational like the way people like they they try to analyze business in a rational way which is weird to me because humans are nothing but irrational and they give money for reasons they can't describe and some of this like why would somebody pay you know i love this this thing that uh you see with like enzo ferrari you guys did a great post about this when you did a ferrari episode and it showed like the racetrack the test track and they're like there's a test track and then
Literally, Enzo Ferrari's house, he built the racetrack around his house. It's just like, why do people come from all over the world to meet this guy and to buy a car that is 10 times, 20, 30 times more expensive than just another car that could go fast? There's a story behind it.
Literally, Enzo Ferrari's house, he built the racetrack around his house. It's just like, why do people come from all over the world to meet this guy and to buy a car that is 10 times, 20, 30 times more expensive than just another car that could go fast? There's a story behind it.
And I think that's where like you see the people that love the product so much, they put so much of their life's energy into it that then they can explain very clearly why it's valuable. The reason I'm not trying to be like obnoxious when I ask people to listen to the podcast and they don't, I tell them to take out their phone.
And I think that's where like you see the people that love the product so much, they put so much of their life's energy into it that then they can explain very clearly why it's valuable. The reason I'm not trying to be like obnoxious when I ask people to listen to the podcast and they don't, I tell them to take out their phone.
I heard this great thing and this is another idea I got from Paul Graham. We said in the early days of Stripe, they called it the Collison installation, where they're like, oh, the other YC companies are like, hey, I'd love to use Stripe. And they'd be like, oh, great, give me your laptop. And they would install it right then. And so I saw that idea, great idea.
I heard this great thing and this is another idea I got from Paul Graham. We said in the early days of Stripe, they called it the Collison installation, where they're like, oh, the other YC companies are like, hey, I'd love to use Stripe. And they'd be like, oh, great, give me your laptop. And they would install it right then. And so I saw that idea, great idea.
I'm going to do the center installation. And so I've done this over and over. I don't even know, I probably installed it, I don't know, not joking, like 500 times. Like, oh, this is going to be the best day you've ever had. You're going to look back on this day. Unbelievable what this podcast is going to do for your career. Here, follow right there.
I'm going to do the center installation. And so I've done this over and over. I don't even know, I probably installed it, I don't know, not joking, like 500 times. Like, oh, this is going to be the best day you've ever had. You're going to look back on this day. Unbelievable what this podcast is going to do for your career. Here, follow right there.
Like, I think the James Cameron episode is the best episode ever done. Maybe the Red Bull episode, maybe the chicken fingered episode. But like, I can tell you that with a straight face and not feel shameful or shameless or whatever the term is there about doing that because I believe in it. It took a lot of fucking work to make that.
Like, I think the James Cameron episode is the best episode ever done. Maybe the Red Bull episode, maybe the chicken fingered episode. But like, I can tell you that with a straight face and not feel shameful or shameless or whatever the term is there about doing that because I believe in it. It took a lot of fucking work to make that.
And I know the lessons are good because that guy told you they're good.
And I know the lessons are good because that guy told you they're good.
This is another, again, like, it's like, you know me well enough. I'm getting hot. So you know me well enough. It's just like, I'm not like, somebody could offer me, like, come run my company or like pay me more money. Like, there's just no way I would do that. Like, I'm not doing, there's other ulterior motives for it.
This is another, again, like, it's like, you know me well enough. I'm getting hot. So you know me well enough. It's just like, I'm not like, somebody could offer me, like, come run my company or like pay me more money. Like, there's just no way I would do that. Like, I'm not doing, there's other ulterior motives for it.
And one, like, if you're really smart, you can find a way to build a good business. It's almost anything. It's not what you do. It's how you do it. With Dietrich's messages, it's like, His whole thing, one, the story is crazy because at the time I did that episode, there's no biographies in English. So like, this is also what drives me insane.
And one, like, if you're really smart, you can find a way to build a good business. It's almost anything. It's not what you do. It's how you do it. With Dietrich's messages, it's like, His whole thing, one, the story is crazy because at the time I did that episode, there's no biographies in English. So like, this is also what drives me insane.
In everything, you should be thinking about differentiation. The reason I started a solo podcast right, on history podcast in 2016 is because in 2016, I thought there was way too many, I can't go interview entrepreneurs. Everybody's already doing that, right? And there's obviously something I didn't understand. There's always room for great, right?
In everything, you should be thinking about differentiation. The reason I started a solo podcast right, on history podcast in 2016 is because in 2016, I thought there was way too many, I can't go interview entrepreneurs. Everybody's already doing that, right? And there's obviously something I didn't understand. There's always room for great, right?
But I didn't, I have this natural inclination I've had my entire life to like go in the other direction that other people are doing. So I knew it was differentiated. And the, what I, what I love about the episodes I love the most is like, there's not even a book about it. You have to like make the content for the episode.
But I didn't, I have this natural inclination I've had my entire life to like go in the other direction that other people are doing. So I knew it was differentiated. And the, what I, what I love about the episodes I love the most is like, there's not even a book about it. You have to like make the content for the episode.
So I had to translate or a friend of mine translated that biography from German. So first of all, I was like, Oh good. Like how many people have done an episode on this guy based on this book? Well, if you haven't spoke German, none. Right. So, and then you, you realize the story is just like, you know, He was working for a bunch of CPG companies, traveling to Asia. He's jet lagged all the time.
So I had to translate or a friend of mine translated that biography from German. So first of all, I was like, Oh good. Like how many people have done an episode on this guy based on this book? Well, if you haven't spoke German, none. Right. So, and then you, you realize the story is just like, you know, He was working for a bunch of CPG companies, traveling to Asia. He's jet lagged all the time.
He winds up finding the Red Bull, but it's in a different language. It's like 15 cents or whatever the case is. He's like, oh, this works. And there's really no like energy drink category. So he helps create the category and then masters a category and then realizes you have a lot of like, you really need to raise the price.
He winds up finding the Red Bull, but it's in a different language. It's like 15 cents or whatever the case is. He's like, oh, this works. And there's really no like energy drink category. So he helps create the category and then masters a category and then realizes you have a lot of like, you really need to raise the price.
And then even the way he looked at things where he's like, oh, we're a marketing conglomerate. So we're going to outsource everything else but marketing. it's like everybody's talking about content to commerce and all this other stuff today. It's like, this is not, nothing is new. You just haven't read enough history. Like you want to look at the best content to commerce right there.
And then even the way he looked at things where he's like, oh, we're a marketing conglomerate. So we're going to outsource everything else but marketing. it's like everybody's talking about content to commerce and all this other stuff today. It's like, this is not, nothing is new. You just haven't read enough history. Like you want to look at the best content to commerce right there.
And then what does he do? He optimizes for, he did not want to have a board of directors. He did not want to be in the public stock market. He didn't want to be answerable to anybody. The guy, I mean, the guy wasn't married. Like you can just look at it. People will give you hints about what's important to them. Just look, read between the lines.
And then what does he do? He optimizes for, he did not want to have a board of directors. He did not want to be in the public stock market. He didn't want to be answerable to anybody. The guy, I mean, the guy wasn't married. Like you can just look at it. People will give you hints about what's important to them. Just look, read between the lines.
And you clearly see, he doesn't like people telling him what to do. He has a ton of fun. He's also crazy. He likes to like, even well into his seventies, he was like taking risky sports, mountain biking. He had, he was like flying his own planes, racing his own cars. He was like the Red Bull, like the brand of Red Bull was him.
And you clearly see, he doesn't like people telling him what to do. He has a ton of fun. He's also crazy. He likes to like, even well into his seventies, he was like taking risky sports, mountain biking. He had, he was like flying his own planes, racing his own cars. He was like the Red Bull, like the brand of Red Bull was him.
And then you get to the point where him and his partner, they each own 49% of the company. They put $500,000 in each. Then they had a small bank loan and every single thing from the growth from there was out of profits. How many people essentially can bootstrap? If me, if somebody gave, if me and you have a business right now, right?
And then you get to the point where him and his partner, they each own 49% of the company. They put $500,000 in each. Then they had a small bank loan and every single thing from the growth from there was out of profits. How many people essentially can bootstrap? If me, if somebody gave, if me and you have a business right now, right?
You're going to put in half a million, I'll put in half a million. We're going to get a small bank loan. You know, hardwood, the unlikely outcome that you and I build a business that's worth 40 or 50 or $60 billion, right? You know how hard that is? How the hell did he do that? There's a great line by Charlie Munger.
You're going to put in half a million, I'll put in half a million. We're going to get a small bank loan. You know, hardwood, the unlikely outcome that you and I build a business that's worth 40 or 50 or $60 billion, right? You know how hard that is? How the hell did he do that? There's a great line by Charlie Munger.
He says, one of my favorite ways, one of my favorite ways to knowledge is finding an extreme example and asking what the hell happened here? You know, and you're like, in my case, it's like people. It's like. What? There's a guy, there's some Austrian guy that owns Red Bull that is turning down his, he turned on multiple offers where he would have made 20 billion for his 49%.
He says, one of my favorite ways, one of my favorite ways to knowledge is finding an extreme example and asking what the hell happened here? You know, and you're like, in my case, it's like people. It's like. What? There's a guy, there's some Austrian guy that owns Red Bull that is turning down his, he turned on multiple offers where he would have made 20 billion for his 49%.
He's paying himself 500 to 800 million a year. He's so private that he buys the magazine that's trying to write a story about him. Like there's a guy that is trying to write an unauthorized biography of him, goes to his mom's house. Dietrich finds the guy and says, if you don't leave my mom alone, I'm going to pay a Russian guy to break your knees, your kneecaps. It's like, what is happening here?
He's paying himself 500 to 800 million a year. He's so private that he buys the magazine that's trying to write a story about him. Like there's a guy that is trying to write an unauthorized biography of him, goes to his mom's house. Dietrich finds the guy and says, if you don't leave my mom alone, I'm going to pay a Russian guy to break your knees, your kneecaps. It's like, what is happening here?
Who is this person? And I think that's really important because all it does is like completely pops off the top of your head about what is possible in life. The reason I'm obsessed with these maniacs on missions, these super driven people, the opposite of casual people is because it's like they stretch what I believe is possible. Let me give you a perfect example.
Who is this person? And I think that's really important because all it does is like completely pops off the top of your head about what is possible in life. The reason I'm obsessed with these maniacs on missions, these super driven people, the opposite of casual people is because it's like they stretch what I believe is possible. Let me give you a perfect example.
There's this reoccurring theme on the podcast. It's in all these biographies. And the shorthand I have for this is how bad do you want it? And I just came across an example of this with Ken Griffin. The reason I did the Ken Griffin episode, even though there's not a biography on him, I think there's one that's like crappy and it's like two stars on Amazon.
There's this reoccurring theme on the podcast. It's in all these biographies. And the shorthand I have for this is how bad do you want it? And I just came across an example of this with Ken Griffin. The reason I did the Ken Griffin episode, even though there's not a biography on him, I think there's one that's like crappy and it's like two stars on Amazon.
So, you know, there's people writing, it's probably like ChatGPT wrote it or something, or the old version of ChatGPT. The new version, actually, that Deep Research can write. The Deep Research, hey, I use Deep Research every day. It's really good. He talks about when he was 33 years old and Ron Broseau. John Arnold tells a story on Twitter. And it goes viral on Twitter. And that's how I found it.
So, you know, there's people writing, it's probably like ChatGPT wrote it or something, or the old version of ChatGPT. The new version, actually, that Deep Research can write. The Deep Research, hey, I use Deep Research every day. It's really good. He talks about when he was 33 years old and Ron Broseau. John Arnold tells a story on Twitter. And it goes viral on Twitter. And that's how I found it.
That's what sparked me because I keep hearing about Canada. Once I read that, I was like, this is a founder's guy, have to do it. And Enron blows up spectacularly in 2001. The day it blows up, Ken charters a Gulfstream jet, sends like 16 people down to Houston, interviews every single person in the Enron energy, like the commodity business.
That's what sparked me because I keep hearing about Canada. Once I read that, I was like, this is a founder's guy, have to do it. And Enron blows up spectacularly in 2001. The day it blows up, Ken charters a Gulfstream jet, sends like 16 people down to Houston, interviews every single person in the Enron energy, like the commodity business.
Everyone finds out how they made money, what their competitors were, what worked, what didn't work, right? Then he finds the head trainer, which is John Arnold. And John Arnold's like, Ken's assistant calls. He's like, hey, Ken wants to talk to you. Would you talk to him? He's like, listen, I'm not open for a job right now. I'm trying to close the books, but I respect what Ken has built.
Everyone finds out how they made money, what their competitors were, what worked, what didn't work, right? Then he finds the head trainer, which is John Arnold. And John Arnold's like, Ken's assistant calls. He's like, hey, Ken wants to talk to you. Would you talk to him? He's like, listen, I'm not open for a job right now. I'm trying to close the books, but I respect what Ken has built.
So I will talk to him. Okay, I'm headed to Aspen for an event right now. When I'm back in Houston, tell Ken I will take his phone call. Hangs up. Assistant calls back a few minutes later. Ken is willing to fly to where you are. If he flies to Aspen today, will you meet with him? He said, yeah. How bad do you want it?
So I will talk to him. Okay, I'm headed to Aspen for an event right now. When I'm back in Houston, tell Ken I will take his phone call. Hangs up. Assistant calls back a few minutes later. Ken is willing to fly to where you are. If he flies to Aspen today, will you meet with him? He said, yeah. How bad do you want it?
And Ken's point that he makes, I don't think that's in the Twitter post, but he tells that same story in the conversation with Yale. He goes, I hired all the best people at Enron, and since then, we've made about $30 billion trading commodities. How bad do you want it? Most people are like, oh, I'll wait till next week. I'll catch you in a couple days. He's like, I'm coming today. 33 years old.
And Ken's point that he makes, I don't think that's in the Twitter post, but he tells that same story in the conversation with Yale. He goes, I hired all the best people at Enron, and since then, we've made about $30 billion trading commodities. How bad do you want it? Most people are like, oh, I'll wait till next week. I'll catch you in a couple days. He's like, I'm coming today. 33 years old.
You always see the true interest is revealed early. He was doing stuff like that. When long-term capital management blew up in 98, he was 30 years old. He went and visited those guys. What do you want to know? You guys didn't lose control of your business until over 90% of your equity. How the hell did you keep it after like 30%, 40%, 50%? How is that possible? And then what happened?
You always see the true interest is revealed early. He was doing stuff like that. When long-term capital management blew up in 98, he was 30 years old. He went and visited those guys. What do you want to know? You guys didn't lose control of your business until over 90% of your equity. How the hell did you keep it after like 30%, 40%, 50%? How is that possible? And then what happened?
That was in 1998, he was 30. In 2008, when he was 40, he lost 50% of his equity. And he says, what I learned from those conversations, I used 10 years later to keep Citadel in business.
That was in 1998, he was 30. In 2008, when he was 40, he lost 50% of his equity. And he says, what I learned from those conversations, I used 10 years later to keep Citadel in business.
Yeah, there's a great line. I did this clip in this video called overpay for talent because you can't really overpay for talent. And Brad Jacobs in his book, you know, he talks about that over and over again. We, me and you went to his house and he talked about, he told us like numbers he was paying for talent. Like, you know, it would shock you.
Yeah, there's a great line. I did this clip in this video called overpay for talent because you can't really overpay for talent. And Brad Jacobs in his book, you know, he talks about that over and over again. We, me and you went to his house and he talked about, he told us like numbers he was paying for talent. Like, you know, it would shock you.
Mr. Beast's video editors, like this 22 year old, the main kid, 22 or 24 year old kid. Like if you knew what he paid him, like you see this over and over again. Why? Because the example in the video is like, well, you know, did Apple really need Next? No, they needed Steve Jobs.
Mr. Beast's video editors, like this 22 year old, the main kid, 22 or 24 year old kid. Like if you knew what he paid him, like you see this over and over again. Why? Because the example in the video is like, well, you know, did Apple really need Next? No, they needed Steve Jobs.
So they paid half a billion dollars to rehire the guy they needed, and he produced, you know, whatever return on that money. Like, they got a deal on getting him back. The reason I think people don't do it is, one, I don't think— Everything we describe, and I do, I think there's like a limit to like the actual application.
So they paid half a billion dollars to rehire the guy they needed, and he produced, you know, whatever return on that money. Like, they got a deal on getting him back. The reason I think people don't do it is, one, I don't think— Everything we describe, and I do, I think there's like a limit to like the actual application.
I guess these ideas you can scale down and scale up, but like there's just not that many talented people in every... And they're really hard to find. They take a long time to usually convince. They're usually really, really expensive. And in many cases, they're working for themselves. So there's not an abundance of people. But this just happened with me and you talked about this.
I guess these ideas you can scale down and scale up, but like there's just not that many talented people in every... And they're really hard to find. They take a long time to usually convince. They're usually really, really expensive. And in many cases, they're working for themselves. So there's not an abundance of people. But this just happened with me and you talked about this.
Your new editor-in-chief just wrote that Neil Maida piece. And how did you find him? You found he wrote the best Palmer Lucky, and Palmer Lucky's- The best profile, period. Yeah, and the best, and Palmer Lucky's like, he's got a lot of coverage. He does great interviews and everything. He's wildly entertaining. And yet this guy wrote the best piece on him. Jeremy. So it's very simple.
Your new editor-in-chief just wrote that Neil Maida piece. And how did you find him? You found he wrote the best Palmer Lucky, and Palmer Lucky's- The best profile, period. Yeah, and the best, and Palmer Lucky's like, he's got a lot of coverage. He does great interviews and everything. He's wildly entertaining. And yet this guy wrote the best piece on him. Jeremy. So it's very simple.
Jeremy Stern. Thank you. It's very simple. It's like, oh- This is what Munger told our mutual friend, Brent. He's like, how do you find CEOs? I just find somebody who did a great job at being a CEO. I said, do that, but for me. And then Brent's like, what about hiring for potential? And Munger's like, I don't do that. Like, I don't do that. I just find the great guy in time to come over here.
Jeremy Stern. Thank you. It's very simple. It's like, oh- This is what Munger told our mutual friend, Brent. He's like, how do you find CEOs? I just find somebody who did a great job at being a CEO. I said, do that, but for me. And then Brent's like, what about hiring for potential? And Munger's like, I don't do that. Like, I don't do that. I just find the great guy in time to come over here.
So you just did this. You're like, hey, that guy's really good. What's the chance that he's only able to write one good possible? Yeah. Like you don't get that good without, there's a skill there, you know?
So you just did this. You're like, hey, that guy's really good. What's the chance that he's only able to write one good possible? Yeah. Like you don't get that good without, there's a skill there, you know?
And so I have gone through, I realized I wasn't even taking my own advice because I would use like all these people when you, there's like inside baseball, this, like when you see all these podcasts that have all these clips, they're outsourced. Clip farms. Yeah. They're like, they're like all the pitches, like it's so cheap. And I even use some that my friends recommended. And I'm like,
And so I have gone through, I realized I wasn't even taking my own advice because I would use like all these people when you, there's like inside baseball, this, like when you see all these podcasts that have all these clips, they're outsourced. Clip farms. Yeah. They're like, they're like all the pitches, like it's so cheap. And I even use some that my friends recommended. And I'm like,
These are terrible. And I found a guy and we met him together and he is really young and really gifted. His name is Maxim. He is my opinion, one of the best short form editors in the world. Shout out Blake Robbins for- For connecting us. It took me a while, a few months to do this.
These are terrible. And I found a guy and we met him together and he is really young and really gifted. His name is Maxim. He is my opinion, one of the best short form editors in the world. Shout out Blake Robbins for- For connecting us. It took me a while, a few months to do this.
Only works because he's obsessed with the podcast and he was like in the audience and he's predisposed and he's already listening to it anyways. And I was like, do that for me. And then he tells me the price and the price is like six times 6x what other people pay. And I said, done. Where do I send the wire? And then what happens?
Only works because he's obsessed with the podcast and he was like in the audience and he's predisposed and he's already listening to it anyways. And I was like, do that for me. And then he tells me the price and the price is like six times 6x what other people pay. And I said, done. Where do I send the wire? And then what happens?
The clips are coming out and the person that's doing your video right now, all these people we meet, they're like, these are the best podcast clips. And then we, I mean, you've talked like, what's the management? There is no management. Like, I bought your taste. It's like, I already know you're great because I watch your videos and like, this is incredible.
The clips are coming out and the person that's doing your video right now, all these people we meet, they're like, these are the best podcast clips. And then we, I mean, you've talked like, what's the management? There is no management. Like, I bought your taste. It's like, I already know you're great because I watch your videos and like, this is incredible.
It's like hiring Tarantino and be like, I have some feedback for you. No, you should shut up. That's Tarantino. This happens to me where like, I get emails and the subject line, feedback on the podcast. Don't even read it. Write it in the garbage. You link me to a podcast that you have made that is even in the same category, and then I will listen. But again, you think I'm making it for you.
It's like hiring Tarantino and be like, I have some feedback for you. No, you should shut up. That's Tarantino. This happens to me where like, I get emails and the subject line, feedback on the podcast. Don't even read it. Write it in the garbage. You link me to a podcast that you have made that is even in the same category, and then I will listen. But again, you think I'm making it for you.
I'm making it for me. The act of publishing it makes it an act of service, but I made it for me first. So I can't do what you want me to do because I'm not making it for you. I'm making it for me. I have to be satisfied first.
I'm making it for me. The act of publishing it makes it an act of service, but I made it for me first. So I can't do what you want me to do because I'm not making it for you. I'm making it for me. I have to be satisfied first.
And so the answer to your question is like one, even me who every single episode is like overpaid for talent, find the best people, never ever forget the dynamic range of humans. You know, Steve Jobs says, you know, the best person is not 100 times better, not twice as good. They're 100 times and 1,000 times better, which is obviously true. Think about the best investors.
And so the answer to your question is like one, even me who every single episode is like overpaid for talent, find the best people, never ever forget the dynamic range of humans. You know, Steve Jobs says, you know, the best person is not 100 times better, not twice as good. They're 100 times and 1,000 times better, which is obviously true. Think about the best investors.
Like, you know, that profile you did on Neil Maeda. Like, I don't know. How many other investors in the world are better than him? It's not 10,000. Whatever the number is, it's a small number, especially if you say the same age group. Now, what, five, two, one? I don't know. But that's the, and that's so hard to actually find the person.
Like, you know, that profile you did on Neil Maeda. Like, I don't know. How many other investors in the world are better than him? It's not 10,000. Whatever the number is, it's a small number, especially if you say the same age group. Now, what, five, two, one? I don't know. But that's the, and that's so hard to actually find the person.
In this case, it came because somebody else that's really good at spotting talent told me and you about this guy. And maybe I probably wouldn't have found him if it wasn't for that. So these things take a lot of time. And then what I would say is just like, if you're not, you have to actually act yourself. I think having a, I have a basic intolerance for people
In this case, it came because somebody else that's really good at spotting talent told me and you about this guy. And maybe I probably wouldn't have found him if it wasn't for that. So these things take a lot of time. And then what I would say is just like, if you're not, you have to actually act yourself. I think having a, I have a basic intolerance for people
for mediocrity, for not being completely obsessed with what you're doing. And so that weeds out most of humanity anyways. And then what I do is like, I have this great maximum where it's like, you should limit, you should limit the amount of details and then make every detail perfect. And so for me, it's like, I don't need a bunch, I don't need anybody to edit, I don't need anybody to make it.
for mediocrity, for not being completely obsessed with what you're doing. And so that weeds out most of humanity anyways. And then what I do is like, I have this great maximum where it's like, you should limit, you should limit the amount of details and then make every detail perfect. And so for me, it's like, I don't need a bunch, I don't need anybody to edit, I don't need anybody to make it.
The only thing I can't do is I'll never be a video editor like him. So I can't, it's not like I have to go out and hire. I don't want to put myself in a position where my business only works if I find like the 15 best people in the world. That's not the game I'm playing.
The only thing I can't do is I'll never be a video editor like him. So I can't, it's not like I have to go out and hire. I don't want to put myself in a position where my business only works if I find like the 15 best people in the world. That's not the game I'm playing.
I literally have no friends that aren't entrepreneurs. but I just can't talk to anybody that's not an entrepreneur. What I always tell them, they're like, yeah, I started this company and it's like software company. And they're like, all right, I got to go and like raise a bunch of money. I was like, you should take a look at like what Larry Ellison did, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates.
I literally have no friends that aren't entrepreneurs. but I just can't talk to anybody that's not an entrepreneur. What I always tell them, they're like, yeah, I started this company and it's like software company. And they're like, all right, I got to go and like raise a bunch of money. I was like, you should take a look at like what Larry Ellison did, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates.
You listen to the podcast, right? You told me you listened to those episodes. What did they do? They raised money? No, they sold the product. They started selling the product before the product was made. Well, maybe you should go out and see if you can get like other ways to do this. Um, it's shocking to me how the default is.
You listen to the podcast, right? You told me you listened to those episodes. What did they do? They raised money? No, they sold the product. They started selling the product before the product was made. Well, maybe you should go out and see if you can get like other ways to do this. Um, it's shocking to me how the default is.
I must go out and convince other people that are not my customers to give me money. And sometimes you have to, like, there's nothing, I'm not against, I'm not anti-raising money. I'm anti-wastefulness.
I must go out and convince other people that are not my customers to give me money. And sometimes you have to, like, there's nothing, I'm not against, I'm not anti-raising money. I'm anti-wastefulness.
And the, what the, the, the, the point that Todd Graves makes in the episode is like, listen, man, a lot of these PE guys come in and they try to buy you out and everything else is just like, why do you think they want your equity? Yeah. Because it's very valuable. So it doesn't mean you can't change, you know, exchange money for equity.
And the, what the, the, the, the point that Todd Graves makes in the episode is like, listen, man, a lot of these PE guys come in and they try to buy you out and everything else is just like, why do you think they want your equity? Yeah. Because it's very valuable. So it doesn't mean you can't change, you know, exchange money for equity.
Sometimes you have to do it, but you should be very, very careful. And he came up with, like, think about this. This is how bad do you want it? And I'm doing the Michael Dell episode. I'm almost positive Michael Dell, his initial starter capital for Dell was $1,000.
Sometimes you have to do it, but you should be very, very careful. And he came up with, like, think about this. This is how bad do you want it? And I'm doing the Michael Dell episode. I'm almost positive Michael Dell, his initial starter capital for Dell was $1,000.
I have to double check, because I've already listened to the book three times, I've read it, I'm going through it again, so I could in my memory. And I'm pretty sure when he went public, he owned like 70% of Dell. It's not my opinion. I would just go, how does Larry Ellison own so much of Oracle? Like, where did the funding come from Microsoft? What about Apple? Like, what did they do?
I have to double check, because I've already listened to the book three times, I've read it, I'm going through it again, so I could in my memory. And I'm pretty sure when he went public, he owned like 70% of Dell. It's not my opinion. I would just go, how does Larry Ellison own so much of Oracle? Like, where did the funding come from Microsoft? What about Apple? Like, what did they do?
Like, they obviously raise money, they go public, they do all this other stuff. Just like, think about that. And do you have to do that? This is a really important decision. You should not be casual about what you're doing. So Todd Graves, chicken finger, right? How many people are you going to criticize this guy for being put on this earth by God to make the world's best chicken fingers?
Like, they obviously raise money, they go public, they do all this other stuff. Just like, think about that. And do you have to do that? This is a really important decision. You should not be casual about what you're doing. So Todd Graves, chicken finger, right? How many people are you going to criticize this guy for being put on this earth by God to make the world's best chicken fingers?
And I love them. Fried chicken outside of like, I like fried chicken. Like, I like it. I don't know what to tell you. I try not to eat it because I get fat immediately, but I like fried chicken. I've eaten a lot of fried chicken. I like his fried chicken. I think it's the best. So what did he do? He's like, listen, I went to a bank.
And I love them. Fried chicken outside of like, I like fried chicken. Like, I like it. I don't know what to tell you. I try not to eat it because I get fat immediately, but I like fried chicken. I've eaten a lot of fried chicken. I like his fried chicken. I think it's the best. So what did he do? He's like, listen, I went to a bank.
He goes, the idea for Raising Cane's was a paper in business school at LSU. And he got the worst grade in class, which is funny because FedEx, Fred Smith, got a bad grade. Phil Knight, Nike, bad grade. maybe we shouldn't have professors judging business plans. Maybe this is kind of stupid, right?
He goes, the idea for Raising Cane's was a paper in business school at LSU. And he got the worst grade in class, which is funny because FedEx, Fred Smith, got a bad grade. Phil Knight, Nike, bad grade. maybe we shouldn't have professors judging business plans. Maybe this is kind of stupid, right?
So Todd Graves goes, I bought, he goes to Office Depot, buys a briefcase, you know, like the little shitty one with like the zero, zero, zero. I put the brief, so I buy a $99 suit. I buy a briefcase. I put the business school paper that I got a bad grade on in the briefcase. And I go down to the bank and they're like, Dude, you're not in a position to loan you money.
So Todd Graves goes, I bought, he goes to Office Depot, buys a briefcase, you know, like the little shitty one with like the zero, zero, zero. I put the brief, so I buy a $99 suit. I buy a briefcase. I put the business school paper that I got a bad grade on in the briefcase. And I go down to the bank and they're like, Dude, you're not in a position to loan you money.
And one of the reasons was you have no experience. They told him you should work in the industry for 10 years, even though he'd already worked through it in college. But you want to just make chicken fingers where your industry is going in the opposite direction. And this is where I got really pissed off in the episode. I was induced into a state of rage.
And one of the reasons was you have no experience. They told him you should work in the industry for 10 years, even though he'd already worked through it in college. But you want to just make chicken fingers where your industry is going in the opposite direction. And this is where I got really pissed off in the episode. I was induced into a state of rage.
They said, Todd, obviously this is not going to work out because look what McDonald's is doing. They're going after variety. There's salads. There's all this other stuff on the menu. There's milkshakes. You just have chicken fingers. Like what is wrong with you? And my point was like that shame on that person at the bank, because again, nothing we're doing is new. Go back to 1948.
They said, Todd, obviously this is not going to work out because look what McDonald's is doing. They're going after variety. There's salads. There's all this other stuff on the menu. There's milkshakes. You just have chicken fingers. Like what is wrong with you? And my point was like that shame on that person at the bank, because again, nothing we're doing is new. Go back to 1948.
Look up this guy named Harry Snyder who founded this company called In-N-Out. All Todd Graves did, if you look at what he did, he's like, oh, I'll just do In-N-Out, but for chicken fingers. It's the exact same story, except he started earlier and is now, I think when Harry Snyder passed away, he only had like 17 restaurants and Todd Stone Chargers Company's got 800 and something.
Look up this guy named Harry Snyder who founded this company called In-N-Out. All Todd Graves did, if you look at what he did, he's like, oh, I'll just do In-N-Out, but for chicken fingers. It's the exact same story, except he started earlier and is now, I think when Harry Snyder passed away, he only had like 17 restaurants and Todd Stone Chargers Company's got 800 and something.
And so that part really frustrated me, because it's like, there's already historical equivalent of this succeeding beyond your wildest dreams. In-N-Out probably wasn't an LSU, the guy didn't know, maybe there was no internet back then, whatever the case is. I'm not being overly harsh on this. So then what's Todd left to do? You're not gonna loan me any money. What do I do?
And so that part really frustrated me, because it's like, there's already historical equivalent of this succeeding beyond your wildest dreams. In-N-Out probably wasn't an LSU, the guy didn't know, maybe there was no internet back then, whatever the case is. I'm not being overly harsh on this. So then what's Todd left to do? You're not gonna loan me any money. What do I do?
I guess I'll just give up. Most people just stop right there. Okay, I will work for 10 years. These guys are right. I'm some young, stupid college kid. They're in fancy suits in a nice office. They know what they're talking about. History clearly sees that that, in many cases, is not the case. So then what do you do? He's like, okay. these oil companies hire boilermakers.
I guess I'll just give up. Most people just stop right there. Okay, I will work for 10 years. These guys are right. I'm some young, stupid college kid. They're in fancy suits in a nice office. They know what they're talking about. History clearly sees that that, in many cases, is not the case. So then what do you do? He's like, okay. these oil companies hire boilermakers.
And what happens is if a refinery goes down, every day that thing is down, that's very expensive to them. So boilermakers come through and they either like update the equipment or fix the equipment. And so if you're willing to work 95 hour weeks in grotesque environments in physical labor, you can make so much money working a hundred hours a week for like five weeks at a time.
And what happens is if a refinery goes down, every day that thing is down, that's very expensive to them. So boilermakers come through and they either like update the equipment or fix the equipment. And so if you're willing to work 95 hour weeks in grotesque environments in physical labor, you can make so much money working a hundred hours a week for like five weeks at a time.
Then he meets, so he makes a ton of money. He saves up tens of thousands of dollars doing that. Then one of the Boilermakers named Wild Bill, who's also one of his investors, which I love, he got the money from, saving money from Boilermaking, right? Then he got, then they tell him, hey, you can go up and do commercial fishing in Alaska.
Then he meets, so he makes a ton of money. He saves up tens of thousands of dollars doing that. Then one of the Boilermakers named Wild Bill, who's also one of his investors, which I love, he got the money from, saving money from Boilermaking, right? Then he got, then they tell him, hey, you can go up and do commercial fishing in Alaska.
At the time Todd is doing this, I'm like much younger watching Deadliest Catch. He was on, like the show is being filmed when he's doing this. And so, yeah, you may fall overboard and die, but if you don't, you're gonna make, you know, 50 grand in two months as a 20-year-old kid. And he lived in a tent. He lived in a tent. He ate nothing but ramen noodles. He risked his life, right, on the boat.
At the time Todd is doing this, I'm like much younger watching Deadliest Catch. He was on, like the show is being filmed when he's doing this. And so, yeah, you may fall overboard and die, but if you don't, you're gonna make, you know, 50 grand in two months as a 20-year-old kid. And he lived in a tent. He lived in a tent. He ate nothing but ramen noodles. He risked his life, right, on the boat.
He went to the Boilermaker. Then he comes back The Boilermakers give him a little bit of money. Like, you keep talking about chicken fingers. You're fucking crazy. I will give you a little bit of money. Then he had a bookie. Guess what? My bookie has a lot of cash. He has a cash business. This guy does not have a bank account.
He went to the Boilermaker. Then he comes back The Boilermakers give him a little bit of money. Like, you keep talking about chicken fingers. You're fucking crazy. I will give you a little bit of money. Then he had a bookie. Guess what? My bookie has a lot of cash. He has a cash business. This guy does not have a bank account.
So then he invested, and that's how he got the money to do his first store. And then from there, he's like, okay, well, how do I do store two, store three, store four? The first 28 stores after this was financed in a very unique way, which he says, this worked out for me. Do not do what I'm about to tell you to do. They're all geographically concentrated in Louisiana. right?
So then he invested, and that's how he got the money to do his first store. And then from there, he's like, okay, well, how do I do store two, store three, store four? The first 28 stores after this was financed in a very unique way, which he says, this worked out for me. Do not do what I'm about to tell you to do. They're all geographically concentrated in Louisiana. right?
And so he would go and he said, he called them angel investors. They're not angel investors. So he goes, so I have two chicken finger stores. I'm going to open a third. I don't have any money, right? Banks are still not giving me money, right? But these things start cash flowing right away. So I go to you, I go, dude, give me 200 grand.
And so he would go and he said, he called them angel investors. They're not angel investors. So he goes, so I have two chicken finger stores. I'm going to open a third. I don't have any money, right? Banks are still not giving me money, right? But these things start cash flowing right away. So I go to you, I go, dude, give me 200 grand.
I'll give you a one page contract, personally liable, not the company, personally liable. And I will pay, guarantee you a 15% return on this 200 grand. And you say, okay. You don't, you give me the 200 grand. I put the 200 grand in the bank. The bank now will lend me that like, oh, you have $200,000 equity. I'll lend you 800 grand on top of that million, whatever the number is on top of that.
I'll give you a one page contract, personally liable, not the company, personally liable. And I will pay, guarantee you a 15% return on this 200 grand. And you say, okay. You don't, you give me the 200 grand. I put the 200 grand in the bank. The bank now will lend me that like, oh, you have $200,000 equity. I'll lend you 800 grand on top of that million, whatever the number is on top of that.
And I start to store. And what happens? Well, day one, there's gonna be some people buying chicken. So cashflow happens right away. I pay my rent 30 days later, I pay payroll two weeks later, and I pay all my supplies net 30 or net 60. And so it works as long as people come in and start buying chicken fingers. And so he's like, I was rolling. I was balling out of control.
And I start to store. And what happens? Well, day one, there's gonna be some people buying chicken. So cashflow happens right away. I pay my rent 30 days later, I pay payroll two weeks later, and I pay all my supplies net 30 or net 60. And so it works as long as people come in and start buying chicken fingers. And so he's like, I was rolling. I was balling out of control.
He gets all the way up to 28 stores doing this. Leverage to the, yeah, exactly. Leverage to the hilts. And then Hurricane Katrina comes through and goes, whoop, there goes all of your restaurants. And so then he's like, oh my God, I'm going to lose everything. And then what happens? He turns the pandemic, he does this, and this is what great entrepreneurs and investors do.
He gets all the way up to 28 stores doing this. Leverage to the, yeah, exactly. Leverage to the hilts. And then Hurricane Katrina comes through and goes, whoop, there goes all of your restaurants. And so then he's like, oh my God, I'm going to lose everything. And then what happens? He turns the pandemic, he does this, and this is what great entrepreneurs and investors do.
They find opportunity in catastrophe, right? And so he's like, listen, guys, we have to open up. One, you guys want a paycheck, right? Two, every single other restaurant in Louisiana is closed, so people need to eat. Three, if we don't, I'm done. There's nothing like, I need to make money. He winds up being the first restaurant to open after Hurricane Katrina.
They find opportunity in catastrophe, right? And so he's like, listen, guys, we have to open up. One, you guys want a paycheck, right? Two, every single other restaurant in Louisiana is closed, so people need to eat. Three, if we don't, I'm done. There's nothing like, I need to make money. He winds up being the first restaurant to open after Hurricane Katrina.
He had like 90 days, something like 60 to 90 days to himself. So what happens? You live in Louisiana. Maybe you never tried Raising Cane's. Guess what? Now you try it now. Oh, this is really good. And now you're a fan and you tell other people and it keeps compounding. Same thing with the pandemic. What happened? All the restaurants were closed. But the government said, food is essential, right?
He had like 90 days, something like 60 to 90 days to himself. So what happens? You live in Louisiana. Maybe you never tried Raising Cane's. Guess what? Now you try it now. Oh, this is really good. And now you're a fan and you tell other people and it keeps compounding. Same thing with the pandemic. What happened? All the restaurants were closed. But the government said, food is essential, right?
An essential business, but it has to be in the drive-thru. He went from doing something like, I don't know, let's say $2 billion or let's say $1 billion a year in 2020 to like $5 billion in 2024. Yeah, so taking something that's terrible and turning it into an actual opportunity. So that's like pretty creative way to finance something. And his whole point is just like, yeah, or you could go.
An essential business, but it has to be in the drive-thru. He went from doing something like, I don't know, let's say $2 billion or let's say $1 billion a year in 2020 to like $5 billion in 2024. Yeah, so taking something that's terrible and turning it into an actual opportunity. So that's like pretty creative way to finance something. And his whole point is just like, yeah, or you could go.
How bad do you want it? How bad do you want it? And just think through what you're doing. Because his whole point was he saw a bunch of other people. They raised money. And we know people that this has happened to. They don't have control. And his thing was he was not optimizing for money. He was, if it's your dream, the first thing, the most important thing is survival, right?
How bad do you want it? How bad do you want it? And just think through what you're doing. Because his whole point was he saw a bunch of other people. They raised money. And we know people that this has happened to. They don't have control. And his thing was he was not optimizing for money. He was, if it's your dream, the first thing, the most important thing is survival, right?
It's to make sure that they can't take your company away from you. Steve Jobs, again, founders talk about this all now, like this is something new. Steve Jobs said in like the 80s, victory in our industry is spelled survival. You go back and talk about like, people think like, he was unbelievable.
It's to make sure that they can't take your company away from you. Steve Jobs, again, founders talk about this all now, like this is something new. Steve Jobs said in like the 80s, victory in our industry is spelled survival. You go back and talk about like, people think like, he was unbelievable.
He said his line, he said something like, you pay attention to the nickels because the nickels turn into quarters. And he says when, and he's like, at the beginning of Apple, we paid attention to all of our costs. We watched what we were doing. We bought intelligently. He would call up his suppliers and haggle the hell out of them. And obviously he's probably the best salesman ever lived.
He said his line, he said something like, you pay attention to the nickels because the nickels turn into quarters. And he says when, and he's like, at the beginning of Apple, we paid attention to all of our costs. We watched what we were doing. We bought intelligently. He would call up his suppliers and haggle the hell out of them. And obviously he's probably the best salesman ever lived.
And then when he started next, he's like, oh, I didn't do it anymore because I'm rich and I don't need to. And I have Ross Perot writing fat checks and I'm on, I'm famous. And he stopped doing it. He's like, we got to get back to the basics. We have to be very creative and pay attention to this.
And then when he started next, he's like, oh, I didn't do it anymore because I'm rich and I don't need to. And I have Ross Perot writing fat checks and I'm on, I'm famous. And he stopped doing it. He's like, we got to get back to the basics. We have to be very creative and pay attention to this.
That's a good question. I don't know if I ever thought about it. So my definition for entrepreneur has always been like somebody has ideas and does them. And I think the reason I'm interested, we have this thing called like, the shorthand called like founder mentality.
That's a good question. I don't know if I ever thought about it. So my definition for entrepreneur has always been like somebody has ideas and does them. And I think the reason I'm interested, we have this thing called like, the shorthand called like founder mentality.
And the reason I profile not only just like founders, but investors and athletes and filmmakers and people like Napoleon and Churchill, Um, is because what they did is like, they saw something missing in the world. It could be leadership.
And the reason I profile not only just like founders, but investors and athletes and filmmakers and people like Napoleon and Churchill, Um, is because what they did is like, they saw something missing in the world. It could be leadership.
And like, you think about Winston Churchill post-World War II or during World War II, it could be, you know, uh, a nonprofit, it could be a product, it could be a company, it could be a service. And they're like, this thing should exist. And like, I'm going to make it, uh, come to life.
And like, you think about Winston Churchill post-World War II or during World War II, it could be, you know, uh, a nonprofit, it could be a product, it could be a company, it could be a service. And they're like, this thing should exist. And like, I'm going to make it, uh, come to life.
And the way I'm going to do this, like I'm going to direct my energy on creating this thing from nothing and making it real. And I still think like, again, you know this, cause like you have small kids and especially when they're really small, they have a different kind of intelligence where everything to them was a wonder. And so they're constantly like, why is that? Why is that?
And the way I'm going to do this, like I'm going to direct my energy on creating this thing from nothing and making it real. And I still think like, again, you know this, cause like you have small kids and especially when they're really small, they have a different kind of intelligence where everything to them was a wonder. And so they're constantly like, why is that? Why is that?
My son's in this age right now. It's just why, why, why, why, why? And sometimes it can get frustrating, but it's also like kind of brilliant. It's like on the midwit meme, it's like all the way to the left, but like really actually brilliant. And I don't think I ever get over the fact that you can have an idea that you don't even know where it comes from. Maybe it comes from your subconscious.
My son's in this age right now. It's just why, why, why, why, why? And sometimes it can get frustrating, but it's also like kind of brilliant. It's like on the midwit meme, it's like all the way to the left, but like really actually brilliant. And I don't think I ever get over the fact that you can have an idea that you don't even know where it comes from. Maybe it comes from your subconscious.
Maybe it comes from a dream. Maybe it comes from God, whatever you call it. And that idea just starts as an idea. It's like, oh, and then that goes from your mind into real life. And the version of this is like, it's a little disorienting. To this day where I just sat in a room by myself reading and then I spoke into a microphone not knowing what was going to happen.
Maybe it comes from a dream. Maybe it comes from God, whatever you call it. And that idea just starts as an idea. It's like, oh, and then that goes from your mind into real life. And the version of this is like, it's a little disorienting. To this day where I just sat in a room by myself reading and then I spoke into a microphone not knowing what was going to happen.
And like that made something real, that act of creation. And it's the thing I'm most proud of. The fact that like I was talking to a friend of mine, we went on a walk right before I flew up here to meet you. And I was like, I think the thing I'm most proud of in my life is like I grinded for five and a half years with like no visible like progress and I didn't give up.
And like that made something real, that act of creation. And it's the thing I'm most proud of. The fact that like I was talking to a friend of mine, we went on a walk right before I flew up here to meet you. And I was like, I think the thing I'm most proud of in my life is like I grinded for five and a half years with like no visible like progress and I didn't give up.
And like, I don't know if I'd do that today. I don't know if I would do that today. And I look back, I'm like, you were making a lot of stupid decisions along this way, but like, that is a really good decision. That you just, something told you, you can't explain, you couldn't predict, that like, just keep going. Like, you will figure it out, you have the self-belief, keep going.
And like, I don't know if I'd do that today. I don't know if I would do that today. And I look back, I'm like, you were making a lot of stupid decisions along this way, but like, that is a really good decision. That you just, something told you, you can't explain, you couldn't predict, that like, just keep going. Like, you will figure it out, you have the self-belief, keep going.
Did you hear me say when I was asked, who is the podcaster's podcaster? The underground one that all of us listen to. It's you. Yes.
Did you hear me say when I was asked, who is the podcaster's podcaster? The underground one that all of us listen to. It's you. Yes.
Did you hear me say when I was asked, who is the podcaster's podcaster? The underground one that all of us listen to. It's you. Yes.
Thank you. Yeah, dude.
Thank you. Yeah, dude.
Thank you. Yeah, dude.
God, I don't know if the internet's ready for that. There'll be a new one coming up soon. Anyway, today I want to go through a bunch of lessons. You spend your entire time studying history's greatest founders, greatest leaders, thinkers, and I want you to go through some broad buckets of lessons that you've taken away from them. So we're going to do 15 today. Okay. First one.
God, I don't know if the internet's ready for that. There'll be a new one coming up soon. Anyway, today I want to go through a bunch of lessons. You spend your entire time studying history's greatest founders, greatest leaders, thinkers, and I want you to go through some broad buckets of lessons that you've taken away from them. So we're going to do 15 today. Okay. First one.
God, I don't know if the internet's ready for that. There'll be a new one coming up soon. Anyway, today I want to go through a bunch of lessons. You spend your entire time studying history's greatest founders, greatest leaders, thinkers, and I want you to go through some broad buckets of lessons that you've taken away from them. So we're going to do 15 today. Okay. First one.
Excellence is the capacity to take pain. Persevering through pain is mandatory.
Excellence is the capacity to take pain. Persevering through pain is mandatory.
Excellence is the capacity to take pain. Persevering through pain is mandatory.
Why... Why is that the case? Is it just that achieving anything that is excellent requires you to negotiate with a world that's going to push up against you? And that means that you're going to end up feeling discomfort. Therefore, the capacity to deal with pain is important.
Why... Why is that the case? Is it just that achieving anything that is excellent requires you to negotiate with a world that's going to push up against you? And that means that you're going to end up feeling discomfort. Therefore, the capacity to deal with pain is important.
Why... Why is that the case? Is it just that achieving anything that is excellent requires you to negotiate with a world that's going to push up against you? And that means that you're going to end up feeling discomfort. Therefore, the capacity to deal with pain is important.
There's a quote from Tim Cook at Apple where he says, people say if you do what you love, you'll never work a day in your life. I found that to be a total crock of shit. At Apple, you will work harder than you ever have before, but the tools will feel light in your hands.
There's a quote from Tim Cook at Apple where he says, people say if you do what you love, you'll never work a day in your life. I found that to be a total crock of shit. At Apple, you will work harder than you ever have before, but the tools will feel light in your hands.
There's a quote from Tim Cook at Apple where he says, people say if you do what you love, you'll never work a day in your life. I found that to be a total crock of shit. At Apple, you will work harder than you ever have before, but the tools will feel light in your hands.
Did you ever hear me tell Rogan about the region beta paradox? That thing. So it's just an idea about where you get stuck in comfortably numb in the middle. Things aren't too bad. They're not that good. But because they're not that bad, you don't have the motivation to go make them better. It's a well-known psychological state. And I came up with...
Did you ever hear me tell Rogan about the region beta paradox? That thing. So it's just an idea about where you get stuck in comfortably numb in the middle. Things aren't too bad. They're not that good. But because they're not that bad, you don't have the motivation to go make them better. It's a well-known psychological state. And I came up with...
Did you ever hear me tell Rogan about the region beta paradox? That thing. So it's just an idea about where you get stuck in comfortably numb in the middle. Things aren't too bad. They're not that good. But because they're not that bad, you don't have the motivation to go make them better. It's a well-known psychological state. And I came up with...
colliery of it which is the reverse region beta paradox being in an aggressively terrible working cadence or environment but having such a tolerance for discomfort that you can endure it for a lifetime lower resilience less stubborn people would snap and have to find a way to change but not you you're the David Goggins of working hard who's going to carry the workload you are forever and that thing is it's a blessing and a curse because it allows people to maybe continue moving when they actually should
colliery of it which is the reverse region beta paradox being in an aggressively terrible working cadence or environment but having such a tolerance for discomfort that you can endure it for a lifetime lower resilience less stubborn people would snap and have to find a way to change but not you you're the David Goggins of working hard who's going to carry the workload you are forever and that thing is it's a blessing and a curse because it allows people to maybe continue moving when they actually should
colliery of it which is the reverse region beta paradox being in an aggressively terrible working cadence or environment but having such a tolerance for discomfort that you can endure it for a lifetime lower resilience less stubborn people would snap and have to find a way to change but not you you're the David Goggins of working hard who's going to carry the workload you are forever and that thing is it's a blessing and a curse because it allows people to maybe continue moving when they actually should
pivot to something else. But if you know that the idea is right, I guess that that's a competitive advantage.
pivot to something else. But if you know that the idea is right, I guess that that's a competitive advantage.
pivot to something else. But if you know that the idea is right, I guess that that's a competitive advantage.
What about – What about Elon? Because he strikes me as somebody that's just got a pretty high pain tolerance.
What about – What about Elon? Because he strikes me as somebody that's just got a pretty high pain tolerance.
What about – What about Elon? Because he strikes me as somebody that's just got a pretty high pain tolerance.
how does he keep going? He has fucking malaria and meningitis at the same time.
how does he keep going? He has fucking malaria and meningitis at the same time.
how does he keep going? He has fucking malaria and meningitis at the same time.
Problems are just opportunities in work clothes. Business is problems. The best companies are just effective problem-solving machines.
Problems are just opportunities in work clothes. Business is problems. The best companies are just effective problem-solving machines.
Problems are just opportunities in work clothes. Business is problems. The best companies are just effective problem-solving machines.
It's the reason that people at the top get paid more because they have more levels of input coming in. Anybody that's in the C-suite, that's good in the C-suite, is basically just a very complex, high-level problem-solving algorithm. But they can just – the number of inputs that they're able to see and the way that they can triage top-down and prioritize what the most – and weight.
It's the reason that people at the top get paid more because they have more levels of input coming in. Anybody that's in the C-suite, that's good in the C-suite, is basically just a very complex, high-level problem-solving algorithm. But they can just – the number of inputs that they're able to see and the way that they can triage top-down and prioritize what the most – and weight.
It's the reason that people at the top get paid more because they have more levels of input coming in. Anybody that's in the C-suite, that's good in the C-suite, is basically just a very complex, high-level problem-solving algorithm. But they can just – the number of inputs that they're able to see and the way that they can triage top-down and prioritize what the most – and weight.
Their weighting is appropriate because of experience and maybe taste or talent or whatever, insight. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I, I think you're right. I think that the best companies just solve problems.
Their weighting is appropriate because of experience and maybe taste or talent or whatever, insight. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I, I think you're right. I think that the best companies just solve problems.
Their weighting is appropriate because of experience and maybe taste or talent or whatever, insight. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I, I think you're right. I think that the best companies just solve problems.
Yeah. It's a shame because...
Yeah. It's a shame because...
Yeah. It's a shame because...
One of the things that this can incentivize people to do is to track the low points and track the journey in the beginning sufficiently so that you always have this sort of stake that you've planted in the ground to say, you know that famous photo of Jeff and he's in front of the handwritten Amazon sign and it's like CRT monitors and old school style keyboards and stuff. Everything's beige.
One of the things that this can incentivize people to do is to track the low points and track the journey in the beginning sufficiently so that you always have this sort of stake that you've planted in the ground to say, you know that famous photo of Jeff and he's in front of the handwritten Amazon sign and it's like CRT monitors and old school style keyboards and stuff. Everything's beige.
One of the things that this can incentivize people to do is to track the low points and track the journey in the beginning sufficiently so that you always have this sort of stake that you've planted in the ground to say, you know that famous photo of Jeff and he's in front of the handwritten Amazon sign and it's like CRT monitors and old school style keyboards and stuff. Everything's beige.
Why is that photo important? Because most of Amazon's inception photos is bereft of the 4K behind-the-scenes footage that you would like to have now. You look at somebody like Chris Bumstead, best bodybuilder in the world, ex, I guess, he just retired a few weeks ago. He has been tracking his journey from... for over 10 years on YouTube.
Why is that photo important? Because most of Amazon's inception photos is bereft of the 4K behind-the-scenes footage that you would like to have now. You look at somebody like Chris Bumstead, best bodybuilder in the world, ex, I guess, he just retired a few weeks ago. He has been tracking his journey from... for over 10 years on YouTube.
Why is that photo important? Because most of Amazon's inception photos is bereft of the 4K behind-the-scenes footage that you would like to have now. You look at somebody like Chris Bumstead, best bodybuilder in the world, ex, I guess, he just retired a few weeks ago. He has been tracking his journey from... for over 10 years on YouTube.
So when it comes to him, people can look at this person and the envy, I think you're able to dampen that down. You're able to ameliorate it because you can show people the difficult times. If you were able to see Jeff Bezos at his worst, Elon Musk at his worst, Dyson at his worst, whoever, Trader Joe at his worst, if you could see those guys when they were really in the shit,
So when it comes to him, people can look at this person and the envy, I think you're able to dampen that down. You're able to ameliorate it because you can show people the difficult times. If you were able to see Jeff Bezos at his worst, Elon Musk at his worst, Dyson at his worst, whoever, Trader Joe at his worst, if you could see those guys when they were really in the shit,
So when it comes to him, people can look at this person and the envy, I think you're able to dampen that down. You're able to ameliorate it because you can show people the difficult times. If you were able to see Jeff Bezos at his worst, Elon Musk at his worst, Dyson at his worst, whoever, Trader Joe at his worst, if you could see those guys when they were really in the shit,
I think far fewer people would think that they did not deserve the success that they get on the other side. The issue people have is that looks like it came easy. Therefore, they don't deserve it. I didn't have something come easy. Yep. Therefore, I should take it from them.
I think far fewer people would think that they did not deserve the success that they get on the other side. The issue people have is that looks like it came easy. Therefore, they don't deserve it. I didn't have something come easy. Yep. Therefore, I should take it from them.
I think far fewer people would think that they did not deserve the success that they get on the other side. The issue people have is that looks like it came easy. Therefore, they don't deserve it. I didn't have something come easy. Yep. Therefore, I should take it from them.
In other news, this episode is brought to you by Function. You probably want to know what's happening inside of your body, but getting your blood work comprehensively analyzed can cost thousands, which is why I partnered with Function.
In other news, this episode is brought to you by Function. You probably want to know what's happening inside of your body, but getting your blood work comprehensively analyzed can cost thousands, which is why I partnered with Function.
In other news, this episode is brought to you by Function. You probably want to know what's happening inside of your body, but getting your blood work comprehensively analyzed can cost thousands, which is why I partnered with Function.
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Right now, you can discover where your health stands and take action with Function's expert health assessments by going to the link in the description below or heading to functionhealth.com slash modern wisdom. That's functionhealth.com slash modern wisdom.
Right now, you can discover where your health stands and take action with Function's expert health assessments by going to the link in the description below or heading to functionhealth.com slash modern wisdom. That's functionhealth.com slash modern wisdom.
He's swimming downstream.
He's swimming downstream.
He's swimming downstream.
yeah it makes it makes life so much easier he's swimming downstream the partner that he picked uh compensates for his shortcomings and accounts for them and helps him to be a better person so does mine yes that's my wife yeah uh you know that i i keep fucking harping on about it this michelangelo effect thing two people they make each other better to be better for each other and for themselves and together they are positive some more than they could have been apart etc and uh
yeah it makes it makes life so much easier he's swimming downstream the partner that he picked uh compensates for his shortcomings and accounts for them and helps him to be a better person so does mine yes that's my wife yeah uh you know that i i keep fucking harping on about it this michelangelo effect thing two people they make each other better to be better for each other and for themselves and together they are positive some more than they could have been apart etc and uh
yeah it makes it makes life so much easier he's swimming downstream the partner that he picked uh compensates for his shortcomings and accounts for them and helps him to be a better person so does mine yes that's my wife yeah uh you know that i i keep fucking harping on about it this michelangelo effect thing two people they make each other better to be better for each other and for themselves and together they are positive some more than they could have been apart etc and uh
stop that thing that made me so attracted to you it's actually kind of getting in the way of the comfort that i want to get yeah so true i mean uh homos he's got some thing where he says um the cheerleader should not be telling the quarterback to get off the field when it's in the final play of the game. Uh, and you know, that can switch.
stop that thing that made me so attracted to you it's actually kind of getting in the way of the comfort that i want to get yeah so true i mean uh homos he's got some thing where he says um the cheerleader should not be telling the quarterback to get off the field when it's in the final play of the game. Uh, and you know, that can switch.
stop that thing that made me so attracted to you it's actually kind of getting in the way of the comfort that i want to get yeah so true i mean uh homos he's got some thing where he says um the cheerleader should not be telling the quarterback to get off the field when it's in the final play of the game. Uh, and you know, that can switch.
I'm sure there's times when you need to step up and be the cheerleader for your wife, uh, not in the podcasting world, but in all sorts of other stuff. And you're like, Hey, uh, There you go. Stadium floor. Crack on. I'm here to support you.
I'm sure there's times when you need to step up and be the cheerleader for your wife, uh, not in the podcasting world, but in all sorts of other stuff. And you're like, Hey, uh, There you go. Stadium floor. Crack on. I'm here to support you.
I'm sure there's times when you need to step up and be the cheerleader for your wife, uh, not in the podcasting world, but in all sorts of other stuff. And you're like, Hey, uh, There you go. Stadium floor. Crack on. I'm here to support you.
Never pissed anyone off.
Never pissed anyone off.
Never pissed anyone off.
Greg McKeown, author of Essentialism, was on the speaking circuit. It's 10th year anniversary of Essentialism next month. And he's done speaking for forever. And he didn't want to miss his kids, but he also wanted to build a life that his kids would be able to benefit from.
Greg McKeown, author of Essentialism, was on the speaking circuit. It's 10th year anniversary of Essentialism next month. And he's done speaking for forever. And he didn't want to miss his kids, but he also wanted to build a life that his kids would be able to benefit from.
Greg McKeown, author of Essentialism, was on the speaking circuit. It's 10th year anniversary of Essentialism next month. And he's done speaking for forever. And he didn't want to miss his kids, but he also wanted to build a life that his kids would be able to benefit from.
So he's sort of caught between a rock and a hard place because being away from his kids is the very thing that facilitates the life he wants to give them. So he just put in a request. Part of his rider was a second ticket, business class, and a second hotel room. And he took one of his kids with him every time that he did a talk. So his kids got to travel the world with him.
So he's sort of caught between a rock and a hard place because being away from his kids is the very thing that facilitates the life he wants to give them. So he just put in a request. Part of his rider was a second ticket, business class, and a second hotel room. And he took one of his kids with him every time that he did a talk. So his kids got to travel the world with him.
So he's sort of caught between a rock and a hard place because being away from his kids is the very thing that facilitates the life he wants to give them. So he just put in a request. Part of his rider was a second ticket, business class, and a second hotel room. And he took one of his kids with him every time that he did a talk. So his kids got to travel the world with him.
Number three, there's ideas worth billions in a $30 history book. History's greatest entrepreneurs all learned from history's greatest entrepreneurs.
Number three, there's ideas worth billions in a $30 history book. History's greatest entrepreneurs all learned from history's greatest entrepreneurs.
Number three, there's ideas worth billions in a $30 history book. History's greatest entrepreneurs all learned from history's greatest entrepreneurs.
Relationships run the world. Trusted personal networks may be the most valuable asset in the world.
Relationships run the world. Trusted personal networks may be the most valuable asset in the world.
Relationships run the world. Trusted personal networks may be the most valuable asset in the world.
Go ahead. Just that there's an additional element in there, which suggests you need to also be able to display value in some way. You need to be able to have, yes, you can build a relationship with somebody, but the analogy of the peak suggests to me that you stand alone atop a mountain of your own. You have done a thing which enables you. It unlocks that.
Go ahead. Just that there's an additional element in there, which suggests you need to also be able to display value in some way. You need to be able to have, yes, you can build a relationship with somebody, but the analogy of the peak suggests to me that you stand alone atop a mountain of your own. You have done a thing which enables you. It unlocks that.
Go ahead. Just that there's an additional element in there, which suggests you need to also be able to display value in some way. You need to be able to have, yes, you can build a relationship with somebody, but the analogy of the peak suggests to me that you stand alone atop a mountain of your own. You have done a thing which enables you. It unlocks that.
It's a zipped file. People, this is a... Because of the way that I learn as well, which is the same, essentializing, right? Taking large concept into memorable mantra, maxim, aphorism, whatever it is. It can feel like quote pawning, right? Which is fine. And I don't actually mind all that much. But that's the sticky thing that stays in the back of your mind.
It's a zipped file. People, this is a... Because of the way that I learn as well, which is the same, essentializing, right? Taking large concept into memorable mantra, maxim, aphorism, whatever it is. It can feel like quote pawning, right? Which is fine. And I don't actually mind all that much. But that's the sticky thing that stays in the back of your mind.
It's a zipped file. People, this is a... Because of the way that I learn as well, which is the same, essentializing, right? Taking large concept into memorable mantra, maxim, aphorism, whatever it is. It can feel like quote pawning, right? Which is fine. And I don't actually mind all that much. But that's the sticky thing that stays in the back of your mind.
And if you're not going to be able to remember the entirety of a book, but you can remember... Do less, but better. That's the concept of essentialism, right? Do less, but better. How awesome. That's really lovely. Do less, but better. It's like from a German saying. You go, right.
And if you're not going to be able to remember the entirety of a book, but you can remember... Do less, but better. That's the concept of essentialism, right? Do less, but better. How awesome. That's really lovely. Do less, but better. It's like from a German saying. You go, right.
And if you're not going to be able to remember the entirety of a book, but you can remember... Do less, but better. That's the concept of essentialism, right? Do less, but better. How awesome. That's really lovely. Do less, but better. It's like from a German saying. You go, right.
Single-ordinating, single-direction.
Single-ordinating, single-direction.
Single-ordinating, single-direction.
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You cut the cost of maintaining multiple systems because you've got one unified business management suite, and you're improving efficiency by bringing all of your major business processes into one platform. Over 37,000 companies have already made the move. NetSuite has extended its one-of-a-kind flexible financing program for a few more weeks.
You cut the cost of maintaining multiple systems because you've got one unified business management suite, and you're improving efficiency by bringing all of your major business processes into one platform. Over 37,000 companies have already made the move. NetSuite has extended its one-of-a-kind flexible financing program for a few more weeks.
So right now, you can get that by following the link in the show notes below or heading to netsuite.com slash modern. That's netsuite.com slash modern. So when I think about a lot of the people that ended up working for me in one form or another in nightlife, on the podcast... so many of them started off working for free.
So right now, you can get that by following the link in the show notes below or heading to netsuite.com slash modern. That's netsuite.com slash modern. So when I think about a lot of the people that ended up working for me in one form or another in nightlife, on the podcast... so many of them started off working for free.
So right now, you can get that by following the link in the show notes below or heading to netsuite.com slash modern. That's netsuite.com slash modern. So when I think about a lot of the people that ended up working for me in one form or another in nightlife, on the podcast... so many of them started off working for free.
Dean, the guy that's still with me now, that's edited 2000 videos that have gone out, every single one of them, creative director now, maybe the best podcast editor on the planet, arguably, I would say so. He did the first two, three years for free. He came and did the first shoot for free. Now we were friends or whatever, but he was a working professional photographer and videographer.
Dean, the guy that's still with me now, that's edited 2000 videos that have gone out, every single one of them, creative director now, maybe the best podcast editor on the planet, arguably, I would say so. He did the first two, three years for free. He came and did the first shoot for free. Now we were friends or whatever, but he was a working professional photographer and videographer.
Dean, the guy that's still with me now, that's edited 2000 videos that have gone out, every single one of them, creative director now, maybe the best podcast editor on the planet, arguably, I would say so. He did the first two, three years for free. He came and did the first shoot for free. Now we were friends or whatever, but he was a working professional photographer and videographer.
But he was like, I think there's something here. I'm just going to do it and let's see what happens. It's like, Offer, offer, offer, give, give, give. And just to round out what you were saying before about the sort of essentializing the fact that mantras and maxims are a useful win-zip tool to then unlock this file downstream from it.
But he was like, I think there's something here. I'm just going to do it and let's see what happens. It's like, Offer, offer, offer, give, give, give. And just to round out what you were saying before about the sort of essentializing the fact that mantras and maxims are a useful win-zip tool to then unlock this file downstream from it.
But he was like, I think there's something here. I'm just going to do it and let's see what happens. It's like, Offer, offer, offer, give, give, give. And just to round out what you were saying before about the sort of essentializing the fact that mantras and maxims are a useful win-zip tool to then unlock this file downstream from it.
Andre Gide, Nobel Prize winner, everything that needs to be said has already been said. But since no one was listening, everything must be said again.
Andre Gide, Nobel Prize winner, everything that needs to be said has already been said. But since no one was listening, everything must be said again.
Andre Gide, Nobel Prize winner, everything that needs to be said has already been said. But since no one was listening, everything must be said again.
Yeah, you've got like Mungarian grift. All right. You can always understand the son by the story of his father. The story of the father is embedded in the son. A desire to not end up like your father is a powerful source of extreme drive.
Yeah, you've got like Mungarian grift. All right. You can always understand the son by the story of his father. The story of the father is embedded in the son. A desire to not end up like your father is a powerful source of extreme drive.
Yeah, you've got like Mungarian grift. All right. You can always understand the son by the story of his father. The story of the father is embedded in the son. A desire to not end up like your father is a powerful source of extreme drive.
All of your accomplishments. Yeah.
All of your accomplishments. Yeah.
All of your accomplishments. Yeah.
Well, think about it that way. Like it is an odd thing for you to be an outlier, for you to know that you're an outlier, for you to kind of want to bestow the benefits of outlierness on your kids. But if you're that much of an outlier, hopefully some smarts have come along with you. And if you're that smart, you'll know what regression to the mean is.
Well, think about it that way. Like it is an odd thing for you to be an outlier, for you to know that you're an outlier, for you to kind of want to bestow the benefits of outlierness on your kids. But if you're that much of an outlier, hopefully some smarts have come along with you. And if you're that smart, you'll know what regression to the mean is.
Well, think about it that way. Like it is an odd thing for you to be an outlier, for you to know that you're an outlier, for you to kind of want to bestow the benefits of outlierness on your kids. But if you're that much of an outlier, hopefully some smarts have come along with you. And if you're that smart, you'll know what regression to the mean is.
And if you are way out on the tail of this thing, Where do you think your kids are going to be? They're going to move back toward the center. That's how it works. Yes. Right.
And if you are way out on the tail of this thing, Where do you think your kids are going to be? They're going to move back toward the center. That's how it works. Yes. Right.
And if you are way out on the tail of this thing, Where do you think your kids are going to be? They're going to move back toward the center. That's how it works. Yes. Right.
So I get- Just to interject, I need to interject. No, go ahead. Isn't it interesting though that, The thing that gives you such a sense of contentment and meaning in the world is your pursuit of something difficult, is this insatiable, unstoppable drive to go and do this thing. And what you're trying to bestow on your kids is equanimity and peace and enoughness.
So I get- Just to interject, I need to interject. No, go ahead. Isn't it interesting though that, The thing that gives you such a sense of contentment and meaning in the world is your pursuit of something difficult, is this insatiable, unstoppable drive to go and do this thing. And what you're trying to bestow on your kids is equanimity and peace and enoughness.
So I get- Just to interject, I need to interject. No, go ahead. Isn't it interesting though that, The thing that gives you such a sense of contentment and meaning in the world is your pursuit of something difficult, is this insatiable, unstoppable drive to go and do this thing. And what you're trying to bestow on your kids is equanimity and peace and enoughness.
If I went to you and said, I'm a super intelligent AI and I can go in and I can change your source code and I can get rid of your need to do the drive. You can be as happy in a hammock as you are in a podcast studio, as you are reading a biography. I don't think that you would take that deal.
If I went to you and said, I'm a super intelligent AI and I can go in and I can change your source code and I can get rid of your need to do the drive. You can be as happy in a hammock as you are in a podcast studio, as you are reading a biography. I don't think that you would take that deal.
If I went to you and said, I'm a super intelligent AI and I can go in and I can change your source code and I can get rid of your need to do the drive. You can be as happy in a hammock as you are in a podcast studio, as you are reading a biography. I don't think that you would take that deal.
So even though my first proposal was, you know, don't try and expect your kids to be as much of an outlier as you are, tails go back to the middle, they don't go further out to the tails. But on the flip side of that too, what if your kids are made of the same stuff as you and...
So even though my first proposal was, you know, don't try and expect your kids to be as much of an outlier as you are, tails go back to the middle, they don't go further out to the tails. But on the flip side of that too, what if your kids are made of the same stuff as you and...
So even though my first proposal was, you know, don't try and expect your kids to be as much of an outlier as you are, tails go back to the middle, they don't go further out to the tails. But on the flip side of that too, what if your kids are made of the same stuff as you and...
Throwing some fuel onto that furnace would be maybe the best blessing because, wow, I'm made of the same stuff that dad is and dad gets me and dad taught me how to handle and control this huge stallion that I've got that I'm trying to, you know what I mean? We've got this sort of really interesting... Easy for a fucking non-father to say.
Throwing some fuel onto that furnace would be maybe the best blessing because, wow, I'm made of the same stuff that dad is and dad gets me and dad taught me how to handle and control this huge stallion that I've got that I'm trying to, you know what I mean? We've got this sort of really interesting... Easy for a fucking non-father to say.
Throwing some fuel onto that furnace would be maybe the best blessing because, wow, I'm made of the same stuff that dad is and dad gets me and dad taught me how to handle and control this huge stallion that I've got that I'm trying to, you know what I mean? We've got this sort of really interesting... Easy for a fucking non-father to say.
In other news, this episode is brought to you by AG1. It's important to me that the supplements I take are of the highest quality, and that is why for over three years now, I've been taking AG1. They conduct relentless testing to set the standard for purity and potency. Everything that they make is the highest quality. It's NSF certified, meaning that even Olympic athletes can use it.
In other news, this episode is brought to you by AG1. It's important to me that the supplements I take are of the highest quality, and that is why for over three years now, I've been taking AG1. They conduct relentless testing to set the standard for purity and potency. Everything that they make is the highest quality. It's NSF certified, meaning that even Olympic athletes can use it.
In other news, this episode is brought to you by AG1. It's important to me that the supplements I take are of the highest quality, and that is why for over three years now, I've been taking AG1. They conduct relentless testing to set the standard for purity and potency. Everything that they make is the highest quality. It's NSF certified, meaning that even Olympic athletes can use it.
And they've updated the recipe 52 times over the last decade as new research and sourcing has come in. I'm massively focused on gut health at the moment and AG1's ingredients are insanely heavily researched for efficacy and quality. And I love the fact that they've got pro and prebiotics plus digestive enzymes to help support my gut. Best of all, there is a 90-day money-back guarantee.
And they've updated the recipe 52 times over the last decade as new research and sourcing has come in. I'm massively focused on gut health at the moment and AG1's ingredients are insanely heavily researched for efficacy and quality. And I love the fact that they've got pro and prebiotics plus digestive enzymes to help support my gut. Best of all, there is a 90-day money-back guarantee.
And they've updated the recipe 52 times over the last decade as new research and sourcing has come in. I'm massively focused on gut health at the moment and AG1's ingredients are insanely heavily researched for efficacy and quality. And I love the fact that they've got pro and prebiotics plus digestive enzymes to help support my gut. Best of all, there is a 90-day money-back guarantee.
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So you can buy it and try it every single day for 89 days. And if you do not like it, they will give you your money back. You can get that 90-day money-back guarantee and try AG1 with a year's free supply of vitamin D and five free AG1 travel packs by going to the link in the show notes below or heading to drinkag1.com slash wisdom. That's drinkag1.com slash wisdom.
So you can buy it and try it every single day for 89 days. And if you do not like it, they will give you your money back. You can get that 90-day money-back guarantee and try AG1 with a year's free supply of vitamin D and five free AG1 travel packs by going to the link in the show notes below or heading to drinkag1.com slash wisdom. That's drinkag1.com slash wisdom.
I wonder, you know, I've spoken to 850 people, whatever, on the show, maybe with doubles like 750, something like that.
I wonder, you know, I've spoken to 850 people, whatever, on the show, maybe with doubles like 750, something like that.
I wonder, you know, I've spoken to 850 people, whatever, on the show, maybe with doubles like 750, something like that.
And I would say that on average, high performers are driven, 90% of them, 95% of them are driven by a sense of insufficiency, not a perfectly balanced desire to enact their logos forward and be the best version of them that they can be simply for the flourishing that comes along with it. Most people don't have that.
And I would say that on average, high performers are driven, 90% of them, 95% of them are driven by a sense of insufficiency, not a perfectly balanced desire to enact their logos forward and be the best version of them that they can be simply for the flourishing that comes along with it. Most people don't have that.
And I would say that on average, high performers are driven, 90% of them, 95% of them are driven by a sense of insufficiency, not a perfectly balanced desire to enact their logos forward and be the best version of them that they can be simply for the flourishing that comes along with it. Most people don't have that.
most people are trying to fill a void they're looking for validation they want the world to see them as useful because they've never felt like they were loved they want someone to tell them like they're enough so they're going to make themselves so much more than enough that they have they have this undeniable stack of mountain of evidence that they were the thing not the thing that they feared that they were and um i just get the sense that it is a balance between happiness and success
most people are trying to fill a void they're looking for validation they want the world to see them as useful because they've never felt like they were loved they want someone to tell them like they're enough so they're going to make themselves so much more than enough that they have they have this undeniable stack of mountain of evidence that they were the thing not the thing that they feared that they were and um i just get the sense that it is a balance between happiness and success
most people are trying to fill a void they're looking for validation they want the world to see them as useful because they've never felt like they were loved they want someone to tell them like they're enough so they're going to make themselves so much more than enough that they have they have this undeniable stack of mountain of evidence that they were the thing not the thing that they feared that they were and um i just get the sense that it is a balance between happiness and success
But given that most people try to become happy by being successful, unhappy people try to use success to achieve happiness. If you can just shortcut it and go straight to happiness, which it sounds like you're trying to teach your kids to do, and much of this is genetic in any case. It's like, hey, here's a roll of the dice. There's 50% of your psychological disposition. Like, good luck.
But given that most people try to become happy by being successful, unhappy people try to use success to achieve happiness. If you can just shortcut it and go straight to happiness, which it sounds like you're trying to teach your kids to do, and much of this is genetic in any case. It's like, hey, here's a roll of the dice. There's 50% of your psychological disposition. Like, good luck.
But given that most people try to become happy by being successful, unhappy people try to use success to achieve happiness. If you can just shortcut it and go straight to happiness, which it sounds like you're trying to teach your kids to do, and much of this is genetic in any case. It's like, hey, here's a roll of the dice. There's 50% of your psychological disposition. Like, good luck.
I hope you're ready. But yeah, if you can do what you can from a rearing perspective, You're safe. You're validated. I love you if you win, and I love you if you lose. As long as you try, here's some principles that you should do that are scalable, that are blah, blah, blah.
I hope you're ready. But yeah, if you can do what you can from a rearing perspective, You're safe. You're validated. I love you if you win, and I love you if you lose. As long as you try, here's some principles that you should do that are scalable, that are blah, blah, blah.
I hope you're ready. But yeah, if you can do what you can from a rearing perspective, You're safe. You're validated. I love you if you win, and I love you if you lose. As long as you try, here's some principles that you should do that are scalable, that are blah, blah, blah.
I think the success thing, especially the people that listen to this podcast, the people that listen to yours, are the kinds of people that have buried themselves. being that breakwater, being that circuit breaker of intergenerational trauma of one kind or another.
I think the success thing, especially the people that listen to this podcast, the people that listen to yours, are the kinds of people that have buried themselves. being that breakwater, being that circuit breaker of intergenerational trauma of one kind or another.
I think the success thing, especially the people that listen to this podcast, the people that listen to yours, are the kinds of people that have buried themselves. being that breakwater, being that circuit breaker of intergenerational trauma of one kind or another.
And if that's you, if you've prostrated yourself on the domino lineage of your ancestors and you've just like, no, you've Samsoned this entire thing together. That's what it's like, right? He's holding these pillars up. That's you and your intergenerational problems. If you've done that, first off, bravo. Secondly,
And if that's you, if you've prostrated yourself on the domino lineage of your ancestors and you've just like, no, you've Samsoned this entire thing together. That's what it's like, right? He's holding these pillars up. That's you and your intergenerational problems. If you've done that, first off, bravo. Secondly,
And if that's you, if you've prostrated yourself on the domino lineage of your ancestors and you've just like, no, you've Samsoned this entire thing together. That's what it's like, right? He's holding these pillars up. That's you and your intergenerational problems. If you've done that, first off, bravo. Secondly,
You have got the skills, you have got the gifts, you have got the insights, you have got the lessons, you have probably got the resources that your parents and your grandparents and your great-grandparents couldn't have even imagined existed. Not only because we're in a world that offers you that opportunity and education and so on and so forth, but because you were the outlier.
You have got the skills, you have got the gifts, you have got the insights, you have got the lessons, you have probably got the resources that your parents and your grandparents and your great-grandparents couldn't have even imagined existed. Not only because we're in a world that offers you that opportunity and education and so on and so forth, but because you were the outlier.
You have got the skills, you have got the gifts, you have got the insights, you have got the lessons, you have probably got the resources that your parents and your grandparents and your great-grandparents couldn't have even imagined existed. Not only because we're in a world that offers you that opportunity and education and so on and so forth, but because you were the outlier.
And that's why you listen to shows like yours and shows like this, because you are an outlier. Among outliers, right? You can't overestimate how normal the normies are. Go out in the street. Like I served normal people at my nightlife business. They're fucking fantastic.
And that's why you listen to shows like yours and shows like this, because you are an outlier. Among outliers, right? You can't overestimate how normal the normies are. Go out in the street. Like I served normal people at my nightlife business. They're fucking fantastic.
And that's why you listen to shows like yours and shows like this, because you are an outlier. Among outliers, right? You can't overestimate how normal the normies are. Go out in the street. Like I served normal people at my nightlife business. They're fucking fantastic.
They're not riven with this sense that you have that for the most part is probably pathological and you would be significantly better off if you didn't have. But what does it allow you to do? It allows you to push yourself into places that other people won't go. So can you take on that pain? Can you take on, like we said in the very beginning, can you take on that burden, shoulder that burden?
They're not riven with this sense that you have that for the most part is probably pathological and you would be significantly better off if you didn't have. But what does it allow you to do? It allows you to push yourself into places that other people won't go. So can you take on that pain? Can you take on, like we said in the very beginning, can you take on that burden, shoulder that burden?
They're not riven with this sense that you have that for the most part is probably pathological and you would be significantly better off if you didn't have. But what does it allow you to do? It allows you to push yourself into places that other people won't go. So can you take on that pain? Can you take on, like we said in the very beginning, can you take on that burden, shoulder that burden?
Pass on what's good. Try to hold on to the stuff that you wish didn't go. And then use the fruits of that labor, the lessons, the resources, the insights. Give that and be like, it was me that did the thing. I accumulated the stuff. I passed it on to my kids. And they got most of the benefits structurally of what I did. with as few of the pathologies emotionally of what caused that to happen.
Pass on what's good. Try to hold on to the stuff that you wish didn't go. And then use the fruits of that labor, the lessons, the resources, the insights. Give that and be like, it was me that did the thing. I accumulated the stuff. I passed it on to my kids. And they got most of the benefits structurally of what I did. with as few of the pathologies emotionally of what caused that to happen.
Pass on what's good. Try to hold on to the stuff that you wish didn't go. And then use the fruits of that labor, the lessons, the resources, the insights. Give that and be like, it was me that did the thing. I accumulated the stuff. I passed it on to my kids. And they got most of the benefits structurally of what I did. with as few of the pathologies emotionally of what caused that to happen.
And I'm going to try to like... I wonder whether... This could totally just be availability bias because of the people that I look up to and that I surround myself with. But I'm really hopeful for the next generation that maybe they have more of those. Maybe that 90 to 95 actually gets closer to 70 or 80 because the proliferation of people trying to make themselves better.
And I'm going to try to like... I wonder whether... This could totally just be availability bias because of the people that I look up to and that I surround myself with. But I'm really hopeful for the next generation that maybe they have more of those. Maybe that 90 to 95 actually gets closer to 70 or 80 because the proliferation of people trying to make themselves better.
And I'm going to try to like... I wonder whether... This could totally just be availability bias because of the people that I look up to and that I surround myself with. But I'm really hopeful for the next generation that maybe they have more of those. Maybe that 90 to 95 actually gets closer to 70 or 80 because the proliferation of people trying to make themselves better.
If Founders is Church for Entrepreneurs, then Modern Wisdom is church for people who want to make their lives better. I'm curious. I have the sense that I'm built for more, and I'm interested in finding out if that's true. And I don't know.
If Founders is Church for Entrepreneurs, then Modern Wisdom is church for people who want to make their lives better. I'm curious. I have the sense that I'm built for more, and I'm interested in finding out if that's true. And I don't know.
If Founders is Church for Entrepreneurs, then Modern Wisdom is church for people who want to make their lives better. I'm curious. I have the sense that I'm built for more, and I'm interested in finding out if that's true. And I don't know.
I don't get how so much of this stuff, even if you only take fucking 0.1% of the things that you're exposed to, and you're a little bit discerning about what's good and what's not good, You are, this is what I said before about the difference between a parents and grandparents and a great grandparents generation and ours. You are orders of magnitude better constructed, better informed.
I don't get how so much of this stuff, even if you only take fucking 0.1% of the things that you're exposed to, and you're a little bit discerning about what's good and what's not good, You are, this is what I said before about the difference between a parents and grandparents and a great grandparents generation and ours. You are orders of magnitude better constructed, better informed.
I don't get how so much of this stuff, even if you only take fucking 0.1% of the things that you're exposed to, and you're a little bit discerning about what's good and what's not good, You are, this is what I said before about the difference between a parents and grandparents and a great grandparents generation and ours. You are orders of magnitude better constructed, better informed.
Correct.
Correct.
Correct.
That's Alex's definition, too.
That's Alex's definition, too.
That's Alex's definition, too.
You should hang with him. I'd love to see you two talk.
You should hang with him. I'd love to see you two talk.
You should hang with him. I'd love to see you two talk.
You're living in it.
You're living in it.
You're living in it.
Yeah. Yeah. Behavioral genetics is like the physics of the way that people show up and there's no changing that.
Yeah. Yeah. Behavioral genetics is like the physics of the way that people show up and there's no changing that.
Yeah. Yeah. Behavioral genetics is like the physics of the way that people show up and there's no changing that.
Wild that you've got such shit railways now.
Wild that you've got such shit railways now.
Wild that you've got such shit railways now.
Yeah, fascinating. What is that? Fascinating. Yeah, you've got this split test. You've got the same father. You've got the same environment, but a totally different outcome. This is why so much, a woman called Nancy Etkoff, and she's probably the leading twins researcher on the planet.
Yeah, fascinating. What is that? Fascinating. Yeah, you've got this split test. You've got the same father. You've got the same environment, but a totally different outcome. This is why so much, a woman called Nancy Etkoff, and she's probably the leading twins researcher on the planet.
Yeah, fascinating. What is that? Fascinating. Yeah, you've got this split test. You've got the same father. You've got the same environment, but a totally different outcome. This is why so much, a woman called Nancy Etkoff, and she's probably the leading twins researcher on the planet.
And between her and Robert Plowman, you realize just how squirrely life can become, even when you share the same environment, when you grow up in the same environment. Genes matter a lot, man. I was going to tell you about this a little bit later on. I did a genetic test, so I had a full genome sequence done.
And between her and Robert Plowman, you realize just how squirrely life can become, even when you share the same environment, when you grow up in the same environment. Genes matter a lot, man. I was going to tell you about this a little bit later on. I did a genetic test, so I had a full genome sequence done.
And between her and Robert Plowman, you realize just how squirrely life can become, even when you share the same environment, when you grow up in the same environment. Genes matter a lot, man. I was going to tell you about this a little bit later on. I did a genetic test, so I had a full genome sequence done.
And as a part of that, the organization, they're able to compare you to the population at mass, and they can say this is one copy of this SNP, or two copies of this SNP is 20% of the population have got that, 6% of the population have got it when it's both, and they do it for everything. And this is related to this. This is related to dopamine. This is related to drive.
And as a part of that, the organization, they're able to compare you to the population at mass, and they can say this is one copy of this SNP, or two copies of this SNP is 20% of the population have got that, 6% of the population have got it when it's both, and they do it for everything. And this is related to this. This is related to dopamine. This is related to drive.
And as a part of that, the organization, they're able to compare you to the population at mass, and they can say this is one copy of this SNP, or two copies of this SNP is 20% of the population have got that, 6% of the population have got it when it's both, and they do it for everything. And this is related to this. This is related to dopamine. This is related to drive.
This is related to obsession. This is a risk for alcohol. This is a risk for Alzheimer's or whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever. And I need to go back and go through it properly before I start talking about it fully on the show. But I want to introduce you to the same company because I want you to get it done because it taught me so much about myself. So many of the things that I thought...
This is related to obsession. This is a risk for alcohol. This is a risk for Alzheimer's or whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever. And I need to go back and go through it properly before I start talking about it fully on the show. But I want to introduce you to the same company because I want you to get it done because it taught me so much about myself. So many of the things that I thought...
This is related to obsession. This is a risk for alcohol. This is a risk for Alzheimer's or whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever. And I need to go back and go through it properly before I start talking about it fully on the show. But I want to introduce you to the same company because I want you to get it done because it taught me so much about myself. So many of the things that I thought...
were cultivated virtues. Um, what it's very much being is like unbelievably fertile ground. I've thrown a bit of water on and it's just like, oh, you were going to be this way. Now you could have been this way for drugs or alcohol or, or, you know, any other kind of obsession, but you were going to be obsessed.
were cultivated virtues. Um, what it's very much being is like unbelievably fertile ground. I've thrown a bit of water on and it's just like, oh, you were going to be this way. Now you could have been this way for drugs or alcohol or, or, you know, any other kind of obsession, but you were going to be obsessed.
were cultivated virtues. Um, what it's very much being is like unbelievably fertile ground. I've thrown a bit of water on and it's just like, oh, you were going to be this way. Now you could have been this way for drugs or alcohol or, or, you know, any other kind of obsession, but you were going to be obsessed.
There was no way there was no way that I was going to grow up and not be obsessed about something. Did they identify why your forearms are so huge? That actually isn't available.
There was no way there was no way that I was going to grow up and not be obsessed about something. Did they identify why your forearms are so huge? That actually isn't available.
There was no way there was no way that I was going to grow up and not be obsessed about something. Did they identify why your forearms are so huge? That actually isn't available.
It's just the forearms. You know what the other thing is? When I do these fucking live shows, the Q&As live are just the same. I shake someone's hand, I'm doing a meet and greet, and they're like, dude, they really are big in real life. They don't even refer to the forearm. They're like, they really are. Bro, you need merch. Just a picture of your forearms. Forearms. All right.
It's just the forearms. You know what the other thing is? When I do these fucking live shows, the Q&As live are just the same. I shake someone's hand, I'm doing a meet and greet, and they're like, dude, they really are big in real life. They don't even refer to the forearm. They're like, they really are. Bro, you need merch. Just a picture of your forearms. Forearms. All right.
It's just the forearms. You know what the other thing is? When I do these fucking live shows, the Q&As live are just the same. I shake someone's hand, I'm doing a meet and greet, and they're like, dude, they really are big in real life. They don't even refer to the forearm. They're like, they really are. Bro, you need merch. Just a picture of your forearms. Forearms. All right.
Actions express priority. We are only what we do, not what we say we are.
Actions express priority. We are only what we do, not what we say we are.
Actions express priority. We are only what we do, not what we say we are.
So, yes, and I love this, but- The issue is that it can become difficult to work out where the boundaries of that stop. How much should you care about the things that you do? I'm not sure, but the answer probably isn't as much as possible all the time about everything. You can't be, perfect example of this, and the solution is deliberate de-optimization, right?
So, yes, and I love this, but- The issue is that it can become difficult to work out where the boundaries of that stop. How much should you care about the things that you do? I'm not sure, but the answer probably isn't as much as possible all the time about everything. You can't be, perfect example of this, and the solution is deliberate de-optimization, right?
So, yes, and I love this, but- The issue is that it can become difficult to work out where the boundaries of that stop. How much should you care about the things that you do? I'm not sure, but the answer probably isn't as much as possible all the time about everything. You can't be, perfect example of this, and the solution is deliberate de-optimization, right?
So it's choosing in advance what you're going to suck at. These are insights from Oliver Berkman, who's fantastic. One of my friends told me about deliberate deoptimization strategy that he was using. I asked him for an example. He said, well, I fly a lot.
So it's choosing in advance what you're going to suck at. These are insights from Oliver Berkman, who's fantastic. One of my friends told me about deliberate deoptimization strategy that he was using. I asked him for an example. He said, well, I fly a lot.
So it's choosing in advance what you're going to suck at. These are insights from Oliver Berkman, who's fantastic. One of my friends told me about deliberate deoptimization strategy that he was using. I asked him for an example. He said, well, I fly a lot.
And if I had the right number of different credit cards and I had all my points tied in and I made sure that I use them the best way and I had, you know, a wallet this big, I would be able to maximize my points. But I just, it's not a sufficiently high priority. I have other things that are higher up. So I just, I'm going to let that one slide. That's just going to be an L for me.
And if I had the right number of different credit cards and I had all my points tied in and I made sure that I use them the best way and I had, you know, a wallet this big, I would be able to maximize my points. But I just, it's not a sufficiently high priority. I have other things that are higher up. So I just, I'm going to let that one slide. That's just going to be an L for me.
And if I had the right number of different credit cards and I had all my points tied in and I made sure that I use them the best way and I had, you know, a wallet this big, I would be able to maximize my points. But I just, it's not a sufficiently high priority. I have other things that are higher up. So I just, I'm going to let that one slide. That's just going to be an L for me.
Could I be more optimized? Yeah, I could. But look, it works. Now, are you going to do that in your highest calling? Am I going to do that when I'm trying to book a guest on the show or we're trying to set up the lighting or we're fighting for a great location or whatever? No. No, that's an area that I need to do it.
Could I be more optimized? Yeah, I could. But look, it works. Now, are you going to do that in your highest calling? Am I going to do that when I'm trying to book a guest on the show or we're trying to set up the lighting or we're fighting for a great location or whatever? No. No, that's an area that I need to do it.
Could I be more optimized? Yeah, I could. But look, it works. Now, are you going to do that in your highest calling? Am I going to do that when I'm trying to book a guest on the show or we're trying to set up the lighting or we're fighting for a great location or whatever? No. No, that's an area that I need to do it.
The problem that the insecure overachiever has, that the type A person with a type B problem has, is not knowing where the boundaries of their obsession should stop because it can't be everything. Oh, I agree with that. It can't be everything. And if it is everything, the things that it really should be for will suffer and you will feel it and you will feel miserable.
The problem that the insecure overachiever has, that the type A person with a type B problem has, is not knowing where the boundaries of their obsession should stop because it can't be everything. Oh, I agree with that. It can't be everything. And if it is everything, the things that it really should be for will suffer and you will feel it and you will feel miserable.
The problem that the insecure overachiever has, that the type A person with a type B problem has, is not knowing where the boundaries of their obsession should stop because it can't be everything. Oh, I agree with that. It can't be everything. And if it is everything, the things that it really should be for will suffer and you will feel it and you will feel miserable.
We broke the entire show, this whole thing, all of the different machinery and the bits and pieces behind it, how the growth happens and what I feel fulfilled by and what makes the world a better place and what grows the revenue and all the rest of the things. We broke all of that down. And it's one, two, three, four. It's four things. But because of your next lesson, I'm not going to say them.
We broke the entire show, this whole thing, all of the different machinery and the bits and pieces behind it, how the growth happens and what I feel fulfilled by and what makes the world a better place and what grows the revenue and all the rest of the things. We broke all of that down. And it's one, two, three, four. It's four things. But because of your next lesson, I'm not going to say them.
We broke the entire show, this whole thing, all of the different machinery and the bits and pieces behind it, how the growth happens and what I feel fulfilled by and what makes the world a better place and what grows the revenue and all the rest of the things. We broke all of that down. And it's one, two, three, four. It's four things. But because of your next lesson, I'm not going to say them.
But there's four things. It's four things. That's it. Should we? Oh, I've heard that TikTok's prioritizing. videos that are over 90 seconds long. So maybe we should be, is it one of those four things? No, it's not. Well, what if we repurp, because we can do a cross promo. It's not one of the four things. Yeah. It's only four things that make an impact on everything.
But there's four things. It's four things. That's it. Should we? Oh, I've heard that TikTok's prioritizing. videos that are over 90 seconds long. So maybe we should be, is it one of those four things? No, it's not. Well, what if we repurp, because we can do a cross promo. It's not one of the four things. Yeah. It's only four things that make an impact on everything.
But there's four things. It's four things. That's it. Should we? Oh, I've heard that TikTok's prioritizing. videos that are over 90 seconds long. So maybe we should be, is it one of those four things? No, it's not. Well, what if we repurp, because we can do a cross promo. It's not one of the four things. Yeah. It's only four things that make an impact on everything.
In other news, this episode is brought to you by Shopify. Shopify powers 10% of all e-commerce in the United States, including huge brands like Gymshark and Allbirds and... Newtonic. They are the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Look, you do not want to learn to code to start your business.
In other news, this episode is brought to you by Shopify. Shopify powers 10% of all e-commerce in the United States, including huge brands like Gymshark and Allbirds and... Newtonic. They are the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Look, you do not want to learn to code to start your business.
In other news, this episode is brought to you by Shopify. Shopify powers 10% of all e-commerce in the United States, including huge brands like Gymshark and Allbirds and... Newtonic. They are the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Look, you do not want to learn to code to start your business.
You don't want to learn how to build a website or how to do inventory management or web hosting or to design stuff. You want to get all of that out of the way so you can get on with what you're here to do, which is to build and sell cool stuff. That's what Shopify helps you do. And that's why we use them for Newtonic. They're literally your no excuses business partner.
You don't want to learn how to build a website or how to do inventory management or web hosting or to design stuff. You want to get all of that out of the way so you can get on with what you're here to do, which is to build and sell cool stuff. That's what Shopify helps you do. And that's why we use them for Newtonic. They're literally your no excuses business partner.
You don't want to learn how to build a website or how to do inventory management or web hosting or to design stuff. You want to get all of that out of the way so you can get on with what you're here to do, which is to build and sell cool stuff. That's what Shopify helps you do. And that's why we use them for Newtonic. They're literally your no excuses business partner.
You can sell without learning to code or design. You just bring your best ideas and Shopify will help you to sell immediately. Plus, Shopify's award-winning help is there to support your success every step of the way. Right now, you can sign up for a $1 per month trial period by going to the link in the show notes below or heading to shopify.com slash modern wisdom or lowercase.
You can sell without learning to code or design. You just bring your best ideas and Shopify will help you to sell immediately. Plus, Shopify's award-winning help is there to support your success every step of the way. Right now, you can sign up for a $1 per month trial period by going to the link in the show notes below or heading to shopify.com slash modern wisdom or lowercase.
You can sell without learning to code or design. You just bring your best ideas and Shopify will help you to sell immediately. Plus, Shopify's award-winning help is there to support your success every step of the way. Right now, you can sign up for a $1 per month trial period by going to the link in the show notes below or heading to shopify.com slash modern wisdom or lowercase.
That's shopify.com slash modern wisdom to grow your business now, no matter what stage you're in. Bad boys move in silence. When you find an edge, shut up about it. Talking invites competition. Competition destroys profits. So I grew up listening to hip hop.
That's shopify.com slash modern wisdom to grow your business now, no matter what stage you're in. Bad boys move in silence. When you find an edge, shut up about it. Talking invites competition. Competition destroys profits. So I grew up listening to hip hop.
That's shopify.com slash modern wisdom to grow your business now, no matter what stage you're in. Bad boys move in silence. When you find an edge, shut up about it. Talking invites competition. Competition destroys profits. So I grew up listening to hip hop.
What was that thing about, uh, sorry, I wrote you such a long letter. If I only had more time, I could have written you a shorter one.
What was that thing about, uh, sorry, I wrote you such a long letter. If I only had more time, I could have written you a shorter one.
What was that thing about, uh, sorry, I wrote you such a long letter. If I only had more time, I could have written you a shorter one.
Belief comes before ability. The external world has this backwards. The belief that you can do something is a prerequisite for trying.
Belief comes before ability. The external world has this backwards. The belief that you can do something is a prerequisite for trying.
Belief comes before ability. The external world has this backwards. The belief that you can do something is a prerequisite for trying.
So I wasn't sure. I wasn't sure what direction you were going in with that because one reading of that sounds fantastic, and I wholeheartedly disagree, but the one from the outside world I think is absolutely bang on. So the reason that I disagree, if you were to say belief comes before ability as in self-belief, I wrote an essay this week about it, so I'm going to read it to you.
So I wasn't sure. I wasn't sure what direction you were going in with that because one reading of that sounds fantastic, and I wholeheartedly disagree, but the one from the outside world I think is absolutely bang on. So the reason that I disagree, if you were to say belief comes before ability as in self-belief, I wrote an essay this week about it, so I'm going to read it to you.
So I wasn't sure. I wasn't sure what direction you were going in with that because one reading of that sounds fantastic, and I wholeheartedly disagree, but the one from the outside world I think is absolutely bang on. So the reason that I disagree, if you were to say belief comes before ability as in self-belief, I wrote an essay this week about it, so I'm going to read it to you.
An Ode to People Who Don't Believe in Themselves. What comes first, belief or action? Do you need to believe that you can do a thing before you do it? Fake it until you make it is one option, but incredibly hard if you're introspective or have low self-belief and high standards. So what about make it until you fake it? Here are some lessons I've learned.
An Ode to People Who Don't Believe in Themselves. What comes first, belief or action? Do you need to believe that you can do a thing before you do it? Fake it until you make it is one option, but incredibly hard if you're introspective or have low self-belief and high standards. So what about make it until you fake it? Here are some lessons I've learned.
An Ode to People Who Don't Believe in Themselves. What comes first, belief or action? Do you need to believe that you can do a thing before you do it? Fake it until you make it is one option, but incredibly hard if you're introspective or have low self-belief and high standards. So what about make it until you fake it? Here are some lessons I've learned.
You can believe you're not worthy of a thing and still attain it. You can be adamant that your efforts are going to go badly and still succeed. You can grip and grasp and fear and it ruin the enjoyment and be totally unwarranted and things still go well. You can have no self-belief and show up anyway and still win. You can want more for yourself without knowing exactly what that looks like.
You can believe you're not worthy of a thing and still attain it. You can be adamant that your efforts are going to go badly and still succeed. You can grip and grasp and fear and it ruin the enjoyment and be totally unwarranted and things still go well. You can have no self-belief and show up anyway and still win. You can want more for yourself without knowing exactly what that looks like.
You can believe you're not worthy of a thing and still attain it. You can be adamant that your efforts are going to go badly and still succeed. You can grip and grasp and fear and it ruin the enjoyment and be totally unwarranted and things still go well. You can have no self-belief and show up anyway and still win. You can want more for yourself without knowing exactly what that looks like.
You can doubt the process, question your talent, be uncertain that you're making progress, disparage your accomplishments, permanently feel like you're not working hard enough, no matter how hard you work, never give yourself a break, fail to fully feel gratitude, be terrified of never reaching your goals, and still end up in a place that your 20-year-old self could not imagine you'd ever get to.
You can doubt the process, question your talent, be uncertain that you're making progress, disparage your accomplishments, permanently feel like you're not working hard enough, no matter how hard you work, never give yourself a break, fail to fully feel gratitude, be terrified of never reaching your goals, and still end up in a place that your 20-year-old self could not imagine you'd ever get to.
You can doubt the process, question your talent, be uncertain that you're making progress, disparage your accomplishments, permanently feel like you're not working hard enough, no matter how hard you work, never give yourself a break, fail to fully feel gratitude, be terrified of never reaching your goals, and still end up in a place that your 20-year-old self could not imagine you'd ever get to.
Self-belief is overrated. Generate evidence.
Self-belief is overrated. Generate evidence.
Self-belief is overrated. Generate evidence.
Because I was swimming downstream.
Because I was swimming downstream.
Because I was swimming downstream.
Yeah, that's an interesting way to think about self-belief because I believe that the thing that I'm doing right now is of value to the world and the world just as yet hasn't recognized that. It's like an interesting pivot on self-belief. The belief, I know that I can make it I have never had, I've never had ever, ever.
Yeah, that's an interesting way to think about self-belief because I believe that the thing that I'm doing right now is of value to the world and the world just as yet hasn't recognized that. It's like an interesting pivot on self-belief. The belief, I know that I can make it I have never had, I've never had ever, ever.
Yeah, that's an interesting way to think about self-belief because I believe that the thing that I'm doing right now is of value to the world and the world just as yet hasn't recognized that. It's like an interesting pivot on self-belief. The belief, I know that I can make it I have never had, I've never had ever, ever.
I am the best avatar for somebody that is permanently looking at his feet going, how the fuck am I stood here? Like, how did this happen? Very much. Don't believe that you're worthy of a thing. Still attained it. Disparage your accomplishments, but still get them.
I am the best avatar for somebody that is permanently looking at his feet going, how the fuck am I stood here? Like, how did this happen? Very much. Don't believe that you're worthy of a thing. Still attained it. Disparage your accomplishments, but still get them.
I am the best avatar for somebody that is permanently looking at his feet going, how the fuck am I stood here? Like, how did this happen? Very much. Don't believe that you're worthy of a thing. Still attained it. Disparage your accomplishments, but still get them.
uh grip grasp fear ruin the enjoyment all of that all of that like the entire for me journey up until probably only the last two years basically moving to america was sort of riven with self-doubt and uncertainty and am i even is am i even doing this right like but i enjoyed the thing that i was doing and i knew that i was good at that thing
uh grip grasp fear ruin the enjoyment all of that all of that like the entire for me journey up until probably only the last two years basically moving to america was sort of riven with self-doubt and uncertainty and am i even is am i even doing this right like but i enjoyed the thing that i was doing and i knew that i was good at that thing
uh grip grasp fear ruin the enjoyment all of that all of that like the entire for me journey up until probably only the last two years basically moving to america was sort of riven with self-doubt and uncertainty and am i even is am i even doing this right like but i enjoyed the thing that i was doing and i knew that i was good at that thing
but I didn't know that there was going to be some outcome. So I think it's what is the sort of self-belief directed at in a way, directed at the outcome of, I know that I can do this thing well and I enjoy it all day. Directed at this is going to reach something that some portion of people will accuse of being success. Never really once.
but I didn't know that there was going to be some outcome. So I think it's what is the sort of self-belief directed at in a way, directed at the outcome of, I know that I can do this thing well and I enjoy it all day. Directed at this is going to reach something that some portion of people will accuse of being success. Never really once.
but I didn't know that there was going to be some outcome. So I think it's what is the sort of self-belief directed at in a way, directed at the outcome of, I know that I can do this thing well and I enjoy it all day. Directed at this is going to reach something that some portion of people will accuse of being success. Never really once.
Yeah. Much bigger, much bigger mountain of evidence. Yeah. Good point. After a while, if imposter syndrome continues to persist, even though you keep disproving it,
Yeah. Much bigger, much bigger mountain of evidence. Yeah. Good point. After a while, if imposter syndrome continues to persist, even though you keep disproving it,
Yeah. Much bigger, much bigger mountain of evidence. Yeah. Good point. After a while, if imposter syndrome continues to persist, even though you keep disproving it,
I'm about to step out on stage in front of three and a half thousand people in London. I just came back from Oz, 5,000 people. Yeah. Other side of the planet. Yeah. And no, not anymore. But that, like, I need to really write this out because I haven't yet. I'm just such a fucking poster boy for somebody that would have abiding imposter syndrome. Like, very...
I'm about to step out on stage in front of three and a half thousand people in London. I just came back from Oz, 5,000 people. Yeah. Other side of the planet. Yeah. And no, not anymore. But that, like, I need to really write this out because I haven't yet. I'm just such a fucking poster boy for somebody that would have abiding imposter syndrome. Like, very...
I'm about to step out on stage in front of three and a half thousand people in London. I just came back from Oz, 5,000 people. Yeah. Other side of the planet. Yeah. And no, not anymore. But that, like, I need to really write this out because I haven't yet. I'm just such a fucking poster boy for somebody that would have abiding imposter syndrome. Like, very...
uncertain very unsure of himself of his place in the world a need for validation a desire to be seen as competent like all of the things you know just like the fucking ingredients to make a really beautiful imposter syndrome casserole and um
uncertain very unsure of himself of his place in the world a need for validation a desire to be seen as competent like all of the things you know just like the fucking ingredients to make a really beautiful imposter syndrome casserole and um
uncertain very unsure of himself of his place in the world a need for validation a desire to be seen as competent like all of the things you know just like the fucking ingredients to make a really beautiful imposter syndrome casserole and um
it's dropped away and it's gone and it's not gone through any weird combination of mindset changes and and sort of conscious reframing uh it's gone because it's been crushed under a fucking neutron star worth weight of evidence yeah i'm like i just can't i can't keep
it's dropped away and it's gone and it's not gone through any weird combination of mindset changes and and sort of conscious reframing uh it's gone because it's been crushed under a fucking neutron star worth weight of evidence yeah i'm like i just can't i can't keep
it's dropped away and it's gone and it's not gone through any weird combination of mindset changes and and sort of conscious reframing uh it's gone because it's been crushed under a fucking neutron star worth weight of evidence yeah i'm like i just can't i can't keep
holding on to a belief that things are going to go badly or that i'm not good enough or that i don't have the talent or that even though i feel like i'm working hard i know that i should be working infinitely harder because i'm just like how many times you want to roll the dice and it come up six six six like over and over and over and over again and um
holding on to a belief that things are going to go badly or that i'm not good enough or that i don't have the talent or that even though i feel like i'm working hard i know that i should be working infinitely harder because i'm just like how many times you want to roll the dice and it come up six six six like over and over and over and over again and um
holding on to a belief that things are going to go badly or that i'm not good enough or that i don't have the talent or that even though i feel like i'm working hard i know that i should be working infinitely harder because i'm just like how many times you want to roll the dice and it come up six six six like over and over and over and over again and um
Yeah, I just, I really want to write it out because I think that there's a lot of people who have a level of self-doubt so great that they struggle to even connect with like an inspirational story because it feels like it's a different... I agree completely.
Yeah, I just, I really want to write it out because I think that there's a lot of people who have a level of self-doubt so great that they struggle to even connect with like an inspirational story because it feels like it's a different... I agree completely.
Yeah, I just, I really want to write it out because I think that there's a lot of people who have a level of self-doubt so great that they struggle to even connect with like an inspirational story because it feels like it's a different... I agree completely.
That's the key. Dude, I've realized this over the last couple of years. We don't fall in love with other people who are perfect. We fall in love with other people. who we see ourselves in their flaws. And there's been a few times on the show or going out for dinner and meeting people or whatever. Like, huh, I, this person's, you know, really smart or really interesting or really insightful. And
That's the key. Dude, I've realized this over the last couple of years. We don't fall in love with other people who are perfect. We fall in love with other people. who we see ourselves in their flaws. And there's been a few times on the show or going out for dinner and meeting people or whatever. Like, huh, I, this person's, you know, really smart or really interesting or really insightful. And
That's the key. Dude, I've realized this over the last couple of years. We don't fall in love with other people who are perfect. We fall in love with other people. who we see ourselves in their flaws. And there's been a few times on the show or going out for dinner and meeting people or whatever. Like, huh, I, this person's, you know, really smart or really interesting or really insightful. And
I just don't care. And I have nothing to talk to them about. And I realized it's that I can't find hucks in their shortcomings that I can latch on to. That either I'm not... I'm unable to see them for some reason. They're being hidden. They're incentivized to hide them. They don't align with the way that I see the world, perhaps. Cultural differences, stuff like that.
I just don't care. And I have nothing to talk to them about. And I realized it's that I can't find hucks in their shortcomings that I can latch on to. That either I'm not... I'm unable to see them for some reason. They're being hidden. They're incentivized to hide them. They don't align with the way that I see the world, perhaps. Cultural differences, stuff like that.
I just don't care. And I have nothing to talk to them about. And I realized it's that I can't find hucks in their shortcomings that I can latch on to. That either I'm not... I'm unable to see them for some reason. They're being hidden. They're incentivized to hide them. They don't align with the way that I see the world, perhaps. Cultural differences, stuff like that.
But yeah, what we really, really resonate with is somebody else who has...
But yeah, what we really, really resonate with is somebody else who has...
But yeah, what we really, really resonate with is somebody else who has...
a shortcoming that we see ourselves in you see a little version of yourself in chris bumstead when he cries on stage or when he's uncertain about whether or not he's going to win you see a little bit of yourself in kobe when he snaps his achilles and he's unsure about where he's going but then he pulls himself back around you know like whoever it is like you see your and that i think is um is reassuring to a lot of people it's certainly reassuring to me when i realized that
a shortcoming that we see ourselves in you see a little version of yourself in chris bumstead when he cries on stage or when he's uncertain about whether or not he's going to win you see a little bit of yourself in kobe when he snaps his achilles and he's unsure about where he's going but then he pulls himself back around you know like whoever it is like you see your and that i think is um is reassuring to a lot of people it's certainly reassuring to me when i realized that
a shortcoming that we see ourselves in you see a little version of yourself in chris bumstead when he cries on stage or when he's uncertain about whether or not he's going to win you see a little bit of yourself in kobe when he snaps his achilles and he's unsure about where he's going but then he pulls himself back around you know like whoever it is like you see your and that i think is um is reassuring to a lot of people it's certainly reassuring to me when i realized that
The most interesting person in the room, in fact, this was born out of our trip to Miami for George's birthday. The most interesting person in the room isn't the most interesting person in the room. It's the person who makes everybody else feel like they're the most interesting person in the room. So you don't need to worry about not being charismatic.
The most interesting person in the room, in fact, this was born out of our trip to Miami for George's birthday. The most interesting person in the room isn't the most interesting person in the room. It's the person who makes everybody else feel like they're the most interesting person in the room. So you don't need to worry about not being charismatic.
The most interesting person in the room, in fact, this was born out of our trip to Miami for George's birthday. The most interesting person in the room isn't the most interesting person in the room. It's the person who makes everybody else feel like they're the most interesting person in the room. So you don't need to worry about not being charismatic.
You just need to make other people feel charismatic. I called it inverse charisma. You know that story. It was Winston Churchill's wife who went to go and see the two different American presidents. She said, I sat down with one of them and... After a dinner, being next to him, I left feeling like he was the smartest person in the world. I sat down a couple of months later with his opponent.
You just need to make other people feel charismatic. I called it inverse charisma. You know that story. It was Winston Churchill's wife who went to go and see the two different American presidents. She said, I sat down with one of them and... After a dinner, being next to him, I left feeling like he was the smartest person in the world. I sat down a couple of months later with his opponent.
You just need to make other people feel charismatic. I called it inverse charisma. You know that story. It was Winston Churchill's wife who went to go and see the two different American presidents. She said, I sat down with one of them and... After a dinner, being next to him, I left feeling like he was the smartest person in the world. I sat down a couple of months later with his opponent.
And after that dinner, I left feeling like I was the smartest person in the world. Like, who do you want to be? I want to be the sort of person that makes other people feel like the smartest person in the world. And the beautiful thing about this idea is that so many people want to be liked and charismatic, but feel like they don't have any charisma or likability. You don't need to.
And after that dinner, I left feeling like I was the smartest person in the world. Like, who do you want to be? I want to be the sort of person that makes other people feel like the smartest person in the world. And the beautiful thing about this idea is that so many people want to be liked and charismatic, but feel like they don't have any charisma or likability. You don't need to.
And after that dinner, I left feeling like I was the smartest person in the world. Like, who do you want to be? I want to be the sort of person that makes other people feel like the smartest person in the world. And the beautiful thing about this idea is that so many people want to be liked and charismatic, but feel like they don't have any charisma or likability. You don't need to.
It's not about you. It's about what you do to other people. And that is so much easier. If you're just, you don't need to be interesting. You just need to be fucking interested in somebody else.
It's not about you. It's about what you do to other people. And that is so much easier. If you're just, you don't need to be interesting. You just need to be fucking interested in somebody else.
It's not about you. It's about what you do to other people. And that is so much easier. If you're just, you don't need to be interesting. You just need to be fucking interested in somebody else.
By endurance, we conquer. Time carries most of the weight. It is hard to beat someone who never stops. Oh, this is, I feel Hormosi would say something like that too.
By endurance, we conquer. Time carries most of the weight. It is hard to beat someone who never stops. Oh, this is, I feel Hormosi would say something like that too.
By endurance, we conquer. Time carries most of the weight. It is hard to beat someone who never stops. Oh, this is, I feel Hormosi would say something like that too.
What's that thing about Buffett made some obscene percentage of his entire net worth after 65?
What's that thing about Buffett made some obscene percentage of his entire net worth after 65?
What's that thing about Buffett made some obscene percentage of his entire net worth after 65?
If you know your business from A to Z, there is no problem you can't solve. The best entrepreneurs stay in the details of their business.
If you know your business from A to Z, there is no problem you can't solve. The best entrepreneurs stay in the details of their business.
If you know your business from A to Z, there is no problem you can't solve. The best entrepreneurs stay in the details of their business.
The public praises people for what they practice in private. There is no such thing as an overnight success. Every great act is built on years of practice no one sees.
The public praises people for what they practice in private. There is no such thing as an overnight success. Every great act is built on years of practice no one sees.
The public praises people for what they practice in private. There is no such thing as an overnight success. Every great act is built on years of practice no one sees.
I love it. I mean, it's cliche to say it takes 10 years to become an overnight success.
I love it. I mean, it's cliche to say it takes 10 years to become an overnight success.
I love it. I mean, it's cliche to say it takes 10 years to become an overnight success.
Self-pity has no utility. If you live long enough, bad things will happen to you. Your goal is to use the bad in life in a constructive fashion.
Self-pity has no utility. If you live long enough, bad things will happen to you. Your goal is to use the bad in life in a constructive fashion.
Self-pity has no utility. If you live long enough, bad things will happen to you. Your goal is to use the bad in life in a constructive fashion.
The good ones know more. The top talent in every industry has gathered more information than most people would find reasonable.
The good ones know more. The top talent in every industry has gathered more information than most people would find reasonable.
The good ones know more. The top talent in every industry has gathered more information than most people would find reasonable.
It is interesting. So much of the stuff that we're talking about today is going beyond the reasonable. There is a bar that lots of people get to. Tolerance for pain, endurance, amount of time persisting doing a thing.
It is interesting. So much of the stuff that we're talking about today is going beyond the reasonable. There is a bar that lots of people get to. Tolerance for pain, endurance, amount of time persisting doing a thing.
It is interesting. So much of the stuff that we're talking about today is going beyond the reasonable. There is a bar that lots of people get to. Tolerance for pain, endurance, amount of time persisting doing a thing.
Amount of talent that somebody has prepared. And it's just a case of going orders of magnitude past that.
Amount of talent that somebody has prepared. And it's just a case of going orders of magnitude past that.
Amount of talent that somebody has prepared. And it's just a case of going orders of magnitude past that.
Money comes naturally as a result of service. A business is just an idea that makes someone else's life better.
Money comes naturally as a result of service. A business is just an idea that makes someone else's life better.
Money comes naturally as a result of service. A business is just an idea that makes someone else's life better.
If you love what you do, the only exit strategy is death. Retirement can be fatal.
If you love what you do, the only exit strategy is death. Retirement can be fatal.
If you love what you do, the only exit strategy is death. Retirement can be fatal.
What about retirement can be fatal?
What about retirement can be fatal?
What about retirement can be fatal?
Well, thinking about it through an evolutionary lens, you're useful. Yes. What are the signals that the world's giving you? You're moving toward a goal. You're useful. People need you. You contribute. Yeah. And yeah, the evidence is there.
Well, thinking about it through an evolutionary lens, you're useful. Yes. What are the signals that the world's giving you? You're moving toward a goal. You're useful. People need you. You contribute. Yeah. And yeah, the evidence is there.
Well, thinking about it through an evolutionary lens, you're useful. Yes. What are the signals that the world's giving you? You're moving toward a goal. You're useful. People need you. You contribute. Yeah. And yeah, the evidence is there.
Dude, I love what you do. I said it at the start. I said it on the Q&A. I think Founders is a podcast that everybody should go and listen to. It's not a cadence that's going to actually eat into your modern wisdom time because you can only get one out a week. So you've got to read all of the books. Bro, you're great. You're great. I really appreciate you as a friend.
Dude, I love what you do. I said it at the start. I said it on the Q&A. I think Founders is a podcast that everybody should go and listen to. It's not a cadence that's going to actually eat into your modern wisdom time because you can only get one out a week. So you've got to read all of the books. Bro, you're great. You're great. I really appreciate you as a friend.
Dude, I love what you do. I said it at the start. I said it on the Q&A. I think Founders is a podcast that everybody should go and listen to. It's not a cadence that's going to actually eat into your modern wisdom time because you can only get one out a week. So you've got to read all of the books. Bro, you're great. You're great. I really appreciate you as a friend.
I appreciate everything that you do. Where should people go? They want to keep up to date with the stuff that you get on Twitter.
I appreciate everything that you do. Where should people go? They want to keep up to date with the stuff that you get on Twitter.
I appreciate everything that you do. Where should people go? They want to keep up to date with the stuff that you get on Twitter.
Until next time, man.
Until next time, man.
Until next time, man.
The reason I run a solo history podcast is because I think the best podcaster I've ever loved is Dan Carlin from Harger History. And so for like fucking years before I did my own podcast, I would fall asleep listening to Dan every night. Almost every night I still fall asleep listening to Dan Carlin. And so I just fell in love. I think there should be way more monologue podcasts.
The reason I run a solo history podcast is because I think the best podcaster I've ever loved is Dan Carlin from Harger History. And so for like fucking years before I did my own podcast, I would fall asleep listening to Dan every night. Almost every night I still fall asleep listening to Dan Carlin. And so I just fell in love. I think there should be way more monologue podcasts.
The reason I run a solo history podcast is because I think the best podcaster I've ever loved is Dan Carlin from Harger History. And so for like fucking years before I did my own podcast, I would fall asleep listening to Dan every night. Almost every night I still fall asleep listening to Dan Carlin. And so I just fell in love. I think there should be way more monologue podcasts.
I think it's a huge opportunity.
I think it's a huge opportunity.
I think it's a huge opportunity.
Him.
Him.
Him.
He's a phenomenal storyteller.
He's a phenomenal storyteller.
He's a phenomenal storyteller.
And I think somebody said something one time, one of the best tweets I ever read was that they said newspapers were a fad. The village storyteller is as old as language. And now the campfire is 6 billion people connected to the internet. And for Dan, his download numbers are nuts. He's only talked about it a few times.
And I think somebody said something one time, one of the best tweets I ever read was that they said newspapers were a fad. The village storyteller is as old as language. And now the campfire is 6 billion people connected to the internet. And for Dan, his download numbers are nuts. He's only talked about it a few times.
And I think somebody said something one time, one of the best tweets I ever read was that they said newspapers were a fad. The village storyteller is as old as language. And now the campfire is 6 billion people connected to the internet. And for Dan, his download numbers are nuts. He's only talked about it a few times.
My guess would be his audience size for some of his bigger things were probably like 10 to 15 million people, I would guess. Because I remember one time he said that, he never mentioned downloads, he's like, My last episode got like 19 million downloads. I was like, that's insane. But then he said that there was a glitch and it was double counted.
My guess would be his audience size for some of his bigger things were probably like 10 to 15 million people, I would guess. Because I remember one time he said that, he never mentioned downloads, he's like, My last episode got like 19 million downloads. I was like, that's insane. But then he said that there was a glitch and it was double counted.
My guess would be his audience size for some of his bigger things were probably like 10 to 15 million people, I would guess. Because I remember one time he said that, he never mentioned downloads, he's like, My last episode got like 19 million downloads. I was like, that's insane. But then he said that there was a glitch and it was double counted.
So even if it's double count, it's 9 million people. And yeah, I just think he's a phenomenal storyteller. And then the way he does the podcast is crazy because I've listened to interviews on this where I thought, again, it sounds like it's, I thought it was scripted. And it's like, no, he's going to read 30 books, right? He's going to spend half a year doing that.
So even if it's double count, it's 9 million people. And yeah, I just think he's a phenomenal storyteller. And then the way he does the podcast is crazy because I've listened to interviews on this where I thought, again, it sounds like it's, I thought it was scripted. And it's like, no, he's going to read 30 books, right? He's going to spend half a year doing that.
So even if it's double count, it's 9 million people. And yeah, I just think he's a phenomenal storyteller. And then the way he does the podcast is crazy because I've listened to interviews on this where I thought, again, it sounds like it's, I thought it was scripted. And it's like, no, he's going to read 30 books, right? He's going to spend half a year doing that.
And he's going to sit down and he records it little by little. So he'll record, you know, little segments over half a year, nine months, and then stitches them all together. And I was like, that's, that's incredible. But the, the benefit he had is he was on, he was on the radio for like 20 years or 15 years or whatever it was a long time before podcasts. He started his podcast in 2005. Yeah.
And he's going to sit down and he records it little by little. So he'll record, you know, little segments over half a year, nine months, and then stitches them all together. And I was like, that's, that's incredible. But the, the benefit he had is he was on, he was on the radio for like 20 years or 15 years or whatever it was a long time before podcasts. He started his podcast in 2005. Yeah.
And he's going to sit down and he records it little by little. So he'll record, you know, little segments over half a year, nine months, and then stitches them all together. And I was like, that's, that's incredible. But the, the benefit he had is he was on, he was on the radio for like 20 years or 15 years or whatever it was a long time before podcasts. He started his podcast in 2005. Yeah.
What would you listen to back then? It'd be Dan Carlin.
What would you listen to back then? It'd be Dan Carlin.
What would you listen to back then? It'd be Dan Carlin.
One of the early ones I got into too were Bill Burr, the comedian. So he was so early that the way he recorded his podcast is you would call a phone number and you would leave a voicemail. And there's a service that changed the voicemail
One of the early ones I got into too were Bill Burr, the comedian. So he was so early that the way he recorded his podcast is you would call a phone number and you would leave a voicemail. And there's a service that changed the voicemail
One of the early ones I got into too were Bill Burr, the comedian. So he was so early that the way he recorded his podcast is you would call a phone number and you would leave a voicemail. And there's a service that changed the voicemail
into an mp3 player they would take that mp3 and then upload it for you so he would literally his early podcast he's just calling a number he's just rambling into a voicemail and that's converted into a podcast It's incredible. I really do feel it's an absolute miracle. And I still feel this to this day where it's like, it doesn't matter what in the world that you're interested in.
into an mp3 player they would take that mp3 and then upload it for you so he would literally his early podcast he's just calling a number he's just rambling into a voicemail and that's converted into a podcast It's incredible. I really do feel it's an absolute miracle. And I still feel this to this day where it's like, it doesn't matter what in the world that you're interested in.
into an mp3 player they would take that mp3 and then upload it for you so he would literally his early podcast he's just calling a number he's just rambling into a voicemail and that's converted into a podcast It's incredible. I really do feel it's an absolute miracle. And I still feel this to this day where it's like, it doesn't matter what in the world that you're interested in.
You can find, we were just talking about before we started recording about like, what the hell do you do? Like I have two kids, like what is schooling and what is education in the world of chat GPT? Like my 12 year old daughter is just using chat GPT for everything. And the school is just acting like this doesn't exist.
You can find, we were just talking about before we started recording about like, what the hell do you do? Like I have two kids, like what is schooling and what is education in the world of chat GPT? Like my 12 year old daughter is just using chat GPT for everything. And the school is just acting like this doesn't exist.
You can find, we were just talking about before we started recording about like, what the hell do you do? Like I have two kids, like what is schooling and what is education in the world of chat GPT? Like my 12 year old daughter is just using chat GPT for everything. And the school is just acting like this doesn't exist.
And the idea is like what I try to teach her is like, obviously like she's kind of forced to listen to podcasts in the car and audio books. And my thing with her is like, I don't care what you're interested in. It's like anything you're interested in, just search the directory.
And the idea is like what I try to teach her is like, obviously like she's kind of forced to listen to podcasts in the car and audio books. And my thing with her is like, I don't care what you're interested in. It's like anything you're interested in, just search the directory.
And the idea is like what I try to teach her is like, obviously like she's kind of forced to listen to podcasts in the car and audio books. And my thing with her is like, I don't care what you're interested in. It's like anything you're interested in, just search the directory.
You're going to find some absolute nut that is dedicated like their entire lives to teaching about whatever subject matter you're into. And they've done it in many cases for decades. you know, a decade, half a decade, there's hundreds of hours you can consume all on demand and you can go as deep as you want. Like that is a miracle.
You're going to find some absolute nut that is dedicated like their entire lives to teaching about whatever subject matter you're into. And they've done it in many cases for decades. you know, a decade, half a decade, there's hundreds of hours you can consume all on demand and you can go as deep as you want. Like that is a miracle.
You're going to find some absolute nut that is dedicated like their entire lives to teaching about whatever subject matter you're into. And they've done it in many cases for decades. you know, a decade, half a decade, there's hundreds of hours you can consume all on demand and you can go as deep as you want. Like that is a miracle.
Like I remember my mom taking me and dropping me off at the public library when I was a kid because we didn't have any money. I remember going to Barnes and Nobles and sitting there because they would let you read. It's like, you know how hard it was to get information as like some young, you know, smart kid, which, you know, my daughter definitely is.
Like I remember my mom taking me and dropping me off at the public library when I was a kid because we didn't have any money. I remember going to Barnes and Nobles and sitting there because they would let you read. It's like, you know how hard it was to get information as like some young, you know, smart kid, which, you know, my daughter definitely is.
Like I remember my mom taking me and dropping me off at the public library when I was a kid because we didn't have any money. I remember going to Barnes and Nobles and sitting there because they would let you read. It's like, you know how hard it was to get information as like some young, you know, smart kid, which, you know, my daughter definitely is.
It's just like, you don't even know what you have that's in front of you. And then if podcast isn't the way you learn, that's fine. Read. If reading's not the way you learn, watch videos. It's like there's world-class education everywhere. It's just absolutely crazy. So yeah, I still to this day don't ever like take it for granted.
It's just like, you don't even know what you have that's in front of you. And then if podcast isn't the way you learn, that's fine. Read. If reading's not the way you learn, watch videos. It's like there's world-class education everywhere. It's just absolutely crazy. So yeah, I still to this day don't ever like take it for granted.
It's just like, you don't even know what you have that's in front of you. And then if podcast isn't the way you learn, that's fine. Read. If reading's not the way you learn, watch videos. It's like there's world-class education everywhere. It's just absolutely crazy. So yeah, I still to this day don't ever like take it for granted.
And I still can't believe that anybody, like no one gave you permission to start this podcast. It was like, I'm going to start it one day. You're going to upload it. And then people all over the world get to enjoy it. That's fucking crazy.
And I still can't believe that anybody, like no one gave you permission to start this podcast. It was like, I'm going to start it one day. You're going to upload it. And then people all over the world get to enjoy it. That's fucking crazy.
And I still can't believe that anybody, like no one gave you permission to start this podcast. It was like, I'm going to start it one day. You're going to upload it. And then people all over the world get to enjoy it. That's fucking crazy.
He's a friend of mine.
He's a friend of mine.
He's a friend of mine.
I think I read every single biography I can find on Larry Ellison. And I find him an infinitely fascinating person. In fact, a friend of mine was at dinner with Elon Musk a few months ago in Palm Beach right before the election. And everybody at dinner, you can imagine, was just lighting Elon up with questions. And he was asked, like, who's his mentor, who he turns to for advice.
I think I read every single biography I can find on Larry Ellison. And I find him an infinitely fascinating person. In fact, a friend of mine was at dinner with Elon Musk a few months ago in Palm Beach right before the election. And everybody at dinner, you can imagine, was just lighting Elon up with questions. And he was asked, like, who's his mentor, who he turns to for advice.
I think I read every single biography I can find on Larry Ellison. And I find him an infinitely fascinating person. In fact, a friend of mine was at dinner with Elon Musk a few months ago in Palm Beach right before the election. And everybody at dinner, you can imagine, was just lighting Elon up with questions. And he was asked, like, who's his mentor, who he turns to for advice.
And he's like, the person I ask, I admire the most. He used different words. He's like, Larry Ellison. He's just like, he's like, Larry Ellison is fucking awesome. I don't know. Did you see the leaked text messages that between Larry Ellison and Elon that came out recently? I saw it, but I didn't go deep in it. So I didn't either. I just saw one that was hilarious where Elon texts him.
And he's like, the person I ask, I admire the most. He used different words. He's like, Larry Ellison. He's just like, he's like, Larry Ellison is fucking awesome. I don't know. Did you see the leaked text messages that between Larry Ellison and Elon that came out recently? I saw it, but I didn't go deep in it. So I didn't either. I just saw one that was hilarious where Elon texts him.
And he's like, the person I ask, I admire the most. He used different words. He's like, Larry Ellison. He's just like, he's like, Larry Ellison is fucking awesome. I don't know. Did you see the leaked text messages that between Larry Ellison and Elon that came out recently? I saw it, but I didn't go deep in it. So I didn't either. I just saw one that was hilarious where Elon texts him.
He's like, hey, are you in for, I'm raising money to buy Twitter. Are you in? He's like, yeah, of course. He's like, I'm not going to hold you to anything, Larry, but like, do you know the amount? And he's like, I don't know, a billion, whatever you want. And Elon's like, I appreciate it, but like, I think you should at least do 2 billion. And I think-
He's like, hey, are you in for, I'm raising money to buy Twitter. Are you in? He's like, yeah, of course. He's like, I'm not going to hold you to anything, Larry, but like, do you know the amount? And he's like, I don't know, a billion, whatever you want. And Elon's like, I appreciate it, but like, I think you should at least do 2 billion. And I think-
He's like, hey, are you in for, I'm raising money to buy Twitter. Are you in? He's like, yeah, of course. He's like, I'm not going to hold you to anything, Larry, but like, do you know the amount? And he's like, I don't know, a billion, whatever you want. And Elon's like, I appreciate it, but like, I think you should at least do 2 billion. And I think-
So in one of Larry's biographies, he talks about the fact that he thinks, especially for technology companies, that names are actually really important. And I always think about this. So it was funny, you know, because I knew that the podcast is about startup ideas. And so I was talking to a friend on my drive over here. I was like, well, it's very nice for Greg to invite me on.
So in one of Larry's biographies, he talks about the fact that he thinks, especially for technology companies, that names are actually really important. And I always think about this. So it was funny, you know, because I knew that the podcast is about startup ideas. And so I was talking to a friend on my drive over here. I was like, well, it's very nice for Greg to invite me on.
So in one of Larry's biographies, he talks about the fact that he thinks, especially for technology companies, that names are actually really important. And I always think about this. So it was funny, you know, because I knew that the podcast is about startup ideas. And so I was talking to a friend on my drive over here. I was like, well, it's very nice for Greg to invite me on.
But like my startup idea is like whatever you're doing, if you love it, just do it until you die. So like don't start anything new. Just like keep doing what you're doing forever. Like if you think about the people I study, it's like they just find something and they usually do it for decades. Um, but I do think, uh, the startup idea I would have is like around podcasts.
But like my startup idea is like whatever you're doing, if you love it, just do it until you die. So like don't start anything new. Just like keep doing what you're doing forever. Like if you think about the people I study, it's like they just find something and they usually do it for decades. Um, but I do think, uh, the startup idea I would have is like around podcasts.
But like my startup idea is like whatever you're doing, if you love it, just do it until you die. So like don't start anything new. Just like keep doing what you're doing forever. Like if you think about the people I study, it's like they just find something and they usually do it for decades. Um, but I do think, uh, the startup idea I would have is like around podcasts.
Like I, I think a lot about like the open space and podcasting. Um, my friend, Eric Glyman, who's the co-founder and CEO of ramp. I just gave him this book that a friend of mine gave me. I gave me extra copies for it. It's the guy that, uh, It's the guy that did like, what's the chicken company? It's like Tyson Chicken. I'm going to pull up this excerpt because I think it's really important.
Like I, I think a lot about like the open space and podcasting. Um, my friend, Eric Glyman, who's the co-founder and CEO of ramp. I just gave him this book that a friend of mine gave me. I gave me extra copies for it. It's the guy that, uh, It's the guy that did like, what's the chicken company? It's like Tyson Chicken. I'm going to pull up this excerpt because I think it's really important.
Like I, I think a lot about like the open space and podcasting. Um, my friend, Eric Glyman, who's the co-founder and CEO of ramp. I just gave him this book that a friend of mine gave me. I gave me extra copies for it. It's the guy that, uh, It's the guy that did like, what's the chicken company? It's like Tyson Chicken. I'm going to pull up this excerpt because I think it's really important.
Jamie, pull up. Yeah, do we have a Jamie here? I'll find out the exact excerpt. And I'm just going to read this to you. because I think it's a good way to find startup ideas, because it's like, what do you think about as soon as your eyes open, and what are you thinking about before you go to bed? The name of the book is called, Tough Man, Tender Chicken.
Jamie, pull up. Yeah, do we have a Jamie here? I'll find out the exact excerpt. And I'm just going to read this to you. because I think it's a good way to find startup ideas, because it's like, what do you think about as soon as your eyes open, and what are you thinking about before you go to bed? The name of the book is called, Tough Man, Tender Chicken.
Jamie, pull up. Yeah, do we have a Jamie here? I'll find out the exact excerpt. And I'm just going to read this to you. because I think it's a good way to find startup ideas, because it's like, what do you think about as soon as your eyes open, and what are you thinking about before you go to bed? The name of the book is called, Tough Man, Tender Chicken.
Can you tell me the company that he started? Tough Man, Tender Chicken is the book. So it's Purdue? Okay. So there's a great line that my friend Eric tweeted out. I want to read to you real quick. And they wanted to start a line. They want to start selling hot dogs. And so he's asked, he's like, Frank, how's the chicken hot dog thing going? And he goes, it's too early to tell.
Can you tell me the company that he started? Tough Man, Tender Chicken is the book. So it's Purdue? Okay. So there's a great line that my friend Eric tweeted out. I want to read to you real quick. And they wanted to start a line. They want to start selling hot dogs. And so he's asked, he's like, Frank, how's the chicken hot dog thing going? And he goes, it's too early to tell.
Can you tell me the company that he started? Tough Man, Tender Chicken is the book. So it's Purdue? Okay. So there's a great line that my friend Eric tweeted out. I want to read to you real quick. And they wanted to start a line. They want to start selling hot dogs. And so he's asked, he's like, Frank, how's the chicken hot dog thing going? And he goes, it's too early to tell.
The guy goes, what do you mean? He goes, I haven't been able to find my Mr. Hot Dog. And he goes, what do you mean you're Mr. Hot Dog? And this guy that's writing the book, Tough Man, Tender Chicken, responds. He goes, there's a guy who gets to bed thinking about chicken hot dogs. And then the first thing he thinks of when he wakes up is chicken hot dogs.
The guy goes, what do you mean? He goes, I haven't been able to find my Mr. Hot Dog. And he goes, what do you mean you're Mr. Hot Dog? And this guy that's writing the book, Tough Man, Tender Chicken, responds. He goes, there's a guy who gets to bed thinking about chicken hot dogs. And then the first thing he thinks of when he wakes up is chicken hot dogs.
The guy goes, what do you mean? He goes, I haven't been able to find my Mr. Hot Dog. And he goes, what do you mean you're Mr. Hot Dog? And this guy that's writing the book, Tough Man, Tender Chicken, responds. He goes, there's a guy who gets to bed thinking about chicken hot dogs. And then the first thing he thinks of when he wakes up is chicken hot dogs.
And so his whole point is like, you have to find your chicken hot dog, your hot dog guy, right? And so for my version, I was like, podcasts. Um, and so when I think of like new podcasts to start one, I actually think you should spend a lot of time based on the story you just said, thinking about the goddamn name, right? I lucked into founders. I think it's a very good name.
And so his whole point is like, you have to find your chicken hot dog, your hot dog guy, right? And so for my version, I was like, podcasts. Um, and so when I think of like new podcasts to start one, I actually think you should spend a lot of time based on the story you just said, thinking about the goddamn name, right? I lucked into founders. I think it's a very good name.
And so his whole point is like, you have to find your chicken hot dog, your hot dog guy, right? And so for my version, I was like, podcasts. Um, and so when I think of like new podcasts to start one, I actually think you should spend a lot of time based on the story you just said, thinking about the goddamn name, right? I lucked into founders. I think it's a very good name.
I think you're not going to click on founders. Like, well, I wonder what this is about. You have an idea what it was about. And then the first five words in the description is gives you the value proposition, which is learned from history's greatest entrepreneur. The two other names that I heard that I think are even better than that are Ben Wilson's How to Take Over the World, right?
I think you're not going to click on founders. Like, well, I wonder what this is about. You have an idea what it was about. And then the first five words in the description is gives you the value proposition, which is learned from history's greatest entrepreneur. The two other names that I heard that I think are even better than that are Ben Wilson's How to Take Over the World, right?
I think you're not going to click on founders. Like, well, I wonder what this is about. You have an idea what it was about. And then the first five words in the description is gives you the value proposition, which is learned from history's greatest entrepreneur. The two other names that I heard that I think are even better than that are Ben Wilson's How to Take Over the World, right?
The value prop is in the title. And then Patrick O'Shaughnessy's Invest Like the Best. And I think naming, like think about what you want the podcast to be, but also thinking about the name is really, really important because you're just infinitely scrolling.
The value prop is in the title. And then Patrick O'Shaughnessy's Invest Like the Best. And I think naming, like think about what you want the podcast to be, but also thinking about the name is really, really important because you're just infinitely scrolling.
The value prop is in the title. And then Patrick O'Shaughnessy's Invest Like the Best. And I think naming, like think about what you want the podcast to be, but also thinking about the name is really, really important because you're just infinitely scrolling.
And I think there's like a lot of like, if you think about how much information that we're all reading or consuming on a daily basis, like how much time are you giving into every single tweet or every single video? It's like seconds. And so the name has to like jump out at you where it's like startup ideas. I wonder what that's about. I fucking know what it's about.
And I think there's like a lot of like, if you think about how much information that we're all reading or consuming on a daily basis, like how much time are you giving into every single tweet or every single video? It's like seconds. And so the name has to like jump out at you where it's like startup ideas. I wonder what that's about. I fucking know what it's about.
And I think there's like a lot of like, if you think about how much information that we're all reading or consuming on a daily basis, like how much time are you giving into every single tweet or every single video? It's like seconds. And so the name has to like jump out at you where it's like startup ideas. I wonder what that's about. I fucking know what it's about.
It's about startup ideas, how to find them, to generate them, to maybe hear another guest sharing one that you could possibly do. So I actually think that's really smart.
It's about startup ideas, how to find them, to generate them, to maybe hear another guest sharing one that you could possibly do. So I actually think that's really smart.
It's about startup ideas, how to find them, to generate them, to maybe hear another guest sharing one that you could possibly do. So I actually think that's really smart.
Yeah. And the ones that we were talking about earlier, how I don't think about it's media. I think about it's like, it's a way to be your authentic self. I think it's podcasting is building relationships at scale. And I think there's something to the fact that, you know, most of the biggest podcasts in the world, they don't have a name other than the person's name.
Yeah. And the ones that we were talking about earlier, how I don't think about it's media. I think about it's like, it's a way to be your authentic self. I think it's podcasting is building relationships at scale. And I think there's something to the fact that, you know, most of the biggest podcasts in the world, they don't have a name other than the person's name.
Yeah. And the ones that we were talking about earlier, how I don't think about it's media. I think about it's like, it's a way to be your authentic self. I think it's podcasting is building relationships at scale. And I think there's something to the fact that, you know, most of the biggest podcasts in the world, they don't have a name other than the person's name.
Like that's a lot harder to grow, especially if you're not famous or if you're not known. But once you have that audience, it's like they're really attached to you. I remember I had dinner with Daniel Ek, the founder of Spotify, who's been like a massive supporter and absolutely love. And we were talking about, it was like over a four-hour conversation. He was telling me the history of Spotify.
Like that's a lot harder to grow, especially if you're not famous or if you're not known. But once you have that audience, it's like they're really attached to you. I remember I had dinner with Daniel Ek, the founder of Spotify, who's been like a massive supporter and absolutely love. And we were talking about, it was like over a four-hour conversation. He was telling me the history of Spotify.
Like that's a lot harder to grow, especially if you're not famous or if you're not known. But once you have that audience, it's like they're really attached to you. I remember I had dinner with Daniel Ek, the founder of Spotify, who's been like a massive supporter and absolutely love. And we were talking about, it was like over a four-hour conversation. He was telling me the history of Spotify.
Daniel's fucking brilliant, as you can imagine. Super polite, but also like you could tell that he's really intense. And he was talking about how one of the most stressful times of building Spotify is when... Yeah, that controversy. You know, they just signed Rogan to this massive deal. He's making this huge bet on podcasting.
Daniel's fucking brilliant, as you can imagine. Super polite, but also like you could tell that he's really intense. And he was talking about how one of the most stressful times of building Spotify is when... Yeah, that controversy. You know, they just signed Rogan to this massive deal. He's making this huge bet on podcasting.
Daniel's fucking brilliant, as you can imagine. Super polite, but also like you could tell that he's really intense. And he was talking about how one of the most stressful times of building Spotify is when... Yeah, that controversy. You know, they just signed Rogan to this massive deal. He's making this huge bet on podcasting.
And there's this huge cancellation campaign that happens in Rogan's for a few weeks. And Daniel's like, you know, very stressed about this. And he's like, and then his subscriber count over the few weeks went up. He added 2 million new subscribers. And I was like, of course.
And there's this huge cancellation campaign that happens in Rogan's for a few weeks. And Daniel's like, you know, very stressed about this. And he's like, and then his subscriber count over the few weeks went up. He added 2 million new subscribers. And I was like, of course.
And there's this huge cancellation campaign that happens in Rogan's for a few weeks. And Daniel's like, you know, very stressed about this. And he's like, and then his subscriber count over the few weeks went up. He added 2 million new subscribers. And I was like, of course.
Because if you listen to Rogan or anybody else and you've heard him talk for a thousand, in his case, I bet you he's a large percentage of his fans, that heard him speak for over a thousand hours. There's nothing that a two minute clip on the mainstream media can tell you about the guy that you've heard talk for a thousand hours. There's no form of education that could take place.
Because if you listen to Rogan or anybody else and you've heard him talk for a thousand, in his case, I bet you he's a large percentage of his fans, that heard him speak for over a thousand hours. There's nothing that a two minute clip on the mainstream media can tell you about the guy that you've heard talk for a thousand hours. There's no form of education that could take place.
Because if you listen to Rogan or anybody else and you've heard him talk for a thousand, in his case, I bet you he's a large percentage of his fans, that heard him speak for over a thousand hours. There's nothing that a two minute clip on the mainstream media can tell you about the guy that you've heard talk for a thousand hours. There's no form of education that could take place.
You know who he is because you've heard him speak for so long. So I think there's actually this, I don't think it was intentional, but this wisdom of just naming these shows after yourself. Again, accruing that audience is a lot harder, but once you get it, it's like they're there for you for a very long time, if not forever.
You know who he is because you've heard him speak for so long. So I think there's actually this, I don't think it was intentional, but this wisdom of just naming these shows after yourself. Again, accruing that audience is a lot harder, but once you get it, it's like they're there for you for a very long time, if not forever.
You know who he is because you've heard him speak for so long. So I think there's actually this, I don't think it was intentional, but this wisdom of just naming these shows after yourself. Again, accruing that audience is a lot harder, but once you get it, it's like they're there for you for a very long time, if not forever.
I talked about this, where it's like, it's very bizarre. Like, okay. I almost said Shopify. They always do the joke that Spotify and Shopify, and then they kind of look alike. You have a founder and CEO who's been running the company for 18 years, right? It's worth over $100 billion. He's only 41 or something like that? And yet he's still... somehow underrated.
I talked about this, where it's like, it's very bizarre. Like, okay. I almost said Shopify. They always do the joke that Spotify and Shopify, and then they kind of look alike. You have a founder and CEO who's been running the company for 18 years, right? It's worth over $100 billion. He's only 41 or something like that? And yet he's still... somehow underrated.
I talked about this, where it's like, it's very bizarre. Like, okay. I almost said Shopify. They always do the joke that Spotify and Shopify, and then they kind of look alike. You have a founder and CEO who's been running the company for 18 years, right? It's worth over $100 billion. He's only 41 or something like that? And yet he's still... somehow underrated.
I just think every single person... So I get to meet a lot of remarkable people as a result of the podcast. And... Almost all of them, it's not the same personality type, but it's the same kind of archetype over and over again. They're just like unbelievably intense and dedicated to their work. And so that's it.
I just think every single person... So I get to meet a lot of remarkable people as a result of the podcast. And... Almost all of them, it's not the same personality type, but it's the same kind of archetype over and over again. They're just like unbelievably intense and dedicated to their work. And so that's it.
I just think every single person... So I get to meet a lot of remarkable people as a result of the podcast. And... Almost all of them, it's not the same personality type, but it's the same kind of archetype over and over again. They're just like unbelievably intense and dedicated to their work. And so that's it.
I just left the conversation was just like, I thought I was pretty intense and I thought I was working a lot. And I'm like, he makes me look like nothing. So it's like, I just left there. It's like with a lot of motivation. Right before we started recording, you had another guest here that was really big on Tony Robbins and like spending a lot of money to spend time with him.
I just left the conversation was just like, I thought I was pretty intense and I thought I was working a lot. And I'm like, he makes me look like nothing. So it's like, I just left there. It's like with a lot of motivation. Right before we started recording, you had another guest here that was really big on Tony Robbins and like spending a lot of money to spend time with him.
I just left the conversation was just like, I thought I was pretty intense and I thought I was working a lot. And I'm like, he makes me look like nothing. So it's like, I just left there. It's like with a lot of motivation. Right before we started recording, you had another guest here that was really big on Tony Robbins and like spending a lot of money to spend time with him.
And I know some people- $250,000 per year. Well, like I know some people could be like, oh, that's bullshit or whatever the case is. But this idea, I don't think, I think, and the way somebody makes you feel and the energy transfer that occurs between two people is like actually underrated. And this isn't some like willy foo foo nonsense shit.
And I know some people- $250,000 per year. Well, like I know some people could be like, oh, that's bullshit or whatever the case is. But this idea, I don't think, I think, and the way somebody makes you feel and the energy transfer that occurs between two people is like actually underrated. And this isn't some like willy foo foo nonsense shit.
And I know some people- $250,000 per year. Well, like I know some people could be like, oh, that's bullshit or whatever the case is. But this idea, I don't think, I think, and the way somebody makes you feel and the energy transfer that occurs between two people is like actually underrated. And this isn't some like willy foo foo nonsense shit.
You go back and read old biographies of Warren Buffett and way before he was known. There was this thing where like, there would be like the small groups that get together every year. And I remember in one of the books, there was this guy's wife that was like bitching at him because he had spent like $1,500 to travel to like Omaha.
You go back and read old biographies of Warren Buffett and way before he was known. There was this thing where like, there would be like the small groups that get together every year. And I remember in one of the books, there was this guy's wife that was like bitching at him because he had spent like $1,500 to travel to like Omaha.
You go back and read old biographies of Warren Buffett and way before he was known. There was this thing where like, there would be like the small groups that get together every year. And I remember in one of the books, there was this guy's wife that was like bitching at him because he had spent like $1,500 to travel to like Omaha.
And this is, you know, probably in the 70s or something, like a long time ago. So even $1,500, a lot more money even back then. And his wife's like, why are you spending all this money? And his response was great. He goes, because he gives me energy. And again, I think that is a very real thing. Our mutual friend, George Mack, has this idea of, he calls it sofa friends and treadmill friends.
And this is, you know, probably in the 70s or something, like a long time ago. So even $1,500, a lot more money even back then. And his wife's like, why are you spending all this money? And his response was great. He goes, because he gives me energy. And again, I think that is a very real thing. Our mutual friend, George Mack, has this idea of, he calls it sofa friends and treadmill friends.
And this is, you know, probably in the 70s or something, like a long time ago. So even $1,500, a lot more money even back then. And his wife's like, why are you spending all this money? And his response was great. He goes, because he gives me energy. And again, I think that is a very real thing. Our mutual friend, George Mack, has this idea of, he calls it sofa friends and treadmill friends.
He's like, pay attention to the energy that you get when you're in an act room with your friends. Some people are like, oh my God, go home. You need to lay into the sofa and just recover. And other people, you want to go home and you want to run on the treadmill. You want to run through walls.
He's like, pay attention to the energy that you get when you're in an act room with your friends. Some people are like, oh my God, go home. You need to lay into the sofa and just recover. And other people, you want to go home and you want to run on the treadmill. You want to run through walls.
He's like, pay attention to the energy that you get when you're in an act room with your friends. Some people are like, oh my God, go home. You need to lay into the sofa and just recover. And other people, you want to go home and you want to run on the treadmill. You want to run through walls.
And I think being around like a Warren Buffett, Tony Robbins, I felt that way when I had dinner with Daniel Ek. I feel that way when I get to meet a lot of these people. It's like, oh, there's like levels to this. And I have so much more to learn and so much more room for improvement. And it just fucking excited me.
And I think being around like a Warren Buffett, Tony Robbins, I felt that way when I had dinner with Daniel Ek. I feel that way when I get to meet a lot of these people. It's like, oh, there's like levels to this. And I have so much more to learn and so much more room for improvement. And it just fucking excited me.
And I think being around like a Warren Buffett, Tony Robbins, I felt that way when I had dinner with Daniel Ek. I feel that way when I get to meet a lot of these people. It's like, oh, there's like levels to this. And I have so much more to learn and so much more room for improvement. And it just fucking excited me.
Yeah, I would get out of sofa towns as much as possible. I almost, I mean, I think Miami Beach to some degree is a sofa town, especially because I don't party. Like, it's like, I don't want to go out. Like, I just want to work. I want to spend time. I want to take care of my health, spend time with family and work. That's all I'm interested in. And I almost left before COVID.
Yeah, I would get out of sofa towns as much as possible. I almost, I mean, I think Miami Beach to some degree is a sofa town, especially because I don't party. Like, it's like, I don't want to go out. Like, I just want to work. I want to spend time. I want to take care of my health, spend time with family and work. That's all I'm interested in. And I almost left before COVID.
Yeah, I would get out of sofa towns as much as possible. I almost, I mean, I think Miami Beach to some degree is a sofa town, especially because I don't party. Like, it's like, I don't want to go out. Like, I just want to work. I want to spend time. I want to take care of my health, spend time with family and work. That's all I'm interested in. And I almost left before COVID.
And then after COVID, we had a huge influx of like way more talented people. A lot of them have since returned. They went back to LA or San Francisco or New York. But the people that stayed were good enough where the network was like, oh, I'd stay here just for the network alone. But I, you know, go to New York every month. I spend a lot of time in California.
And then after COVID, we had a huge influx of like way more talented people. A lot of them have since returned. They went back to LA or San Francisco or New York. But the people that stayed were good enough where the network was like, oh, I'd stay here just for the network alone. But I, you know, go to New York every month. I spend a lot of time in California.
And then after COVID, we had a huge influx of like way more talented people. A lot of them have since returned. They went back to LA or San Francisco or New York. But the people that stayed were good enough where the network was like, oh, I'd stay here just for the network alone. But I, you know, go to New York every month. I spend a lot of time in California.
Like I would, I just talked to, there's this really talented guy. Do you know Blake Robbins?
Like I would, I just talked to, there's this really talented guy. Do you know Blake Robbins?
Like I would, I just talked to, there's this really talented guy. Do you know Blake Robbins?
He was at Benchmark. Totally. He's really good at like finding these like obscure, like people on the internet. Yeah. And he put me and my friend Patrick onto this guy named Maxim. And I think he found him when he only had like a couple thousand followers or something like that. Maxim now has like a million followers. It's by Maximize on- Yeah, I follow him. Yeah, he's the best.
He was at Benchmark. Totally. He's really good at like finding these like obscure, like people on the internet. Yeah. And he put me and my friend Patrick onto this guy named Maxim. And I think he found him when he only had like a couple thousand followers or something like that. Maxim now has like a million followers. It's by Maximize on- Yeah, I follow him. Yeah, he's the best.
He was at Benchmark. Totally. He's really good at like finding these like obscure, like people on the internet. Yeah. And he put me and my friend Patrick onto this guy named Maxim. And I think he found him when he only had like a couple thousand followers or something like that. Maxim now has like a million followers. It's by Maximize on- Yeah, I follow him. Yeah, he's the best.
I got to spend time with him in New York City because-
I got to spend time with him in New York City because-
I got to spend time with him in New York City because-
he said the only podcast he listened to is founders and so if you look at maximus videos a lot of them are ideas from the podcast i was like dude can you make some videos for me please seriously he's going to but um he's like like it's a you can look at his working like this guy's a fucking world-class talent and we wind up spending a few hours together in new york and he was thinking about it's like should i move from england and i was like how old are you he's like 23 hey you got any kids no i
he said the only podcast he listened to is founders and so if you look at maximus videos a lot of them are ideas from the podcast i was like dude can you make some videos for me please seriously he's going to but um he's like like it's a you can look at his working like this guy's a fucking world-class talent and we wind up spending a few hours together in new york and he was thinking about it's like should i move from england and i was like how old are you he's like 23 hey you got any kids no i
he said the only podcast he listened to is founders and so if you look at maximus videos a lot of them are ideas from the podcast i was like dude can you make some videos for me please seriously he's going to but um he's like like it's a you can look at his working like this guy's a fucking world-class talent and we wind up spending a few hours together in new york and he was thinking about it's like should i move from england and i was like how old are you he's like 23 hey you got any kids no i
You married? He's like, no. I go, you better get your ass over here immediately. Like, absolutely. To be super talented, 23 years old, no attachments. I even told him like, hey, like I will guarantee you a contract for two years to cover your living expenses. If you just make videos for us and you want to build your own company or whatever the case is, like, don't worry about that.
You married? He's like, no. I go, you better get your ass over here immediately. Like, absolutely. To be super talented, 23 years old, no attachments. I even told him like, hey, like I will guarantee you a contract for two years to cover your living expenses. If you just make videos for us and you want to build your own company or whatever the case is, like, don't worry about that.
You married? He's like, no. I go, you better get your ass over here immediately. Like, absolutely. To be super talented, 23 years old, no attachments. I even told him like, hey, like I will guarantee you a contract for two years to cover your living expenses. If you just make videos for us and you want to build your own company or whatever the case is, like, don't worry about that.
And I don't even think he needs to do that because I think his side business is successful enough that he doesn't need that. But for that, it's like no brainer.
And I don't even think he needs to do that because I think his side business is successful enough that he doesn't need that. But for that, it's like no brainer.
And I don't even think he needs to do that because I think his side business is successful enough that he doesn't need that. But for that, it's like no brainer.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now, that's different from what I did. I literally just like locked myself in a room. Like, you know, the Kanye line where it's like, travel yourself in this three, make it five beats a day for three summers. Like that is how you get good at anything. This is, so in the background, I'm obviously kind of a psycho where,
Now, that's different from what I did. I literally just like locked myself in a room. Like, you know, the Kanye line where it's like, travel yourself in this three, make it five beats a day for three summers. Like that is how you get good at anything. This is, so in the background, I'm obviously kind of a psycho where,
Now, that's different from what I did. I literally just like locked myself in a room. Like, you know, the Kanye line where it's like, travel yourself in this three, make it five beats a day for three summers. Like that is how you get good at anything. This is, so in the background, I'm obviously kind of a psycho where,
in the background during work, I just play the last dance that Michael Jordan documentary over and over again. So like my wife walked in and like, sometimes I'll switch it up. It'll be like, Defiant Ones is another really great documentary. Cause you just see the work ethic of like a Jimmy Iovine, of a Dr. Dre, of a Bruce Springsteen, of anybody that's good at anything. It just takes so much time.
in the background during work, I just play the last dance that Michael Jordan documentary over and over again. So like my wife walked in and like, sometimes I'll switch it up. It'll be like, Defiant Ones is another really great documentary. Cause you just see the work ethic of like a Jimmy Iovine, of a Dr. Dre, of a Bruce Springsteen, of anybody that's good at anything. It just takes so much time.
in the background during work, I just play the last dance that Michael Jordan documentary over and over again. So like my wife walked in and like, sometimes I'll switch it up. It'll be like, Defiant Ones is another really great documentary. Cause you just see the work ethic of like a Jimmy Iovine, of a Dr. Dre, of a Bruce Springsteen, of anybody that's good at anything. It just takes so much time.
And that's why like, I would say if you want to be world-class anything, like you really don't have that much competition. Like the very top, you know, half of a percentile, you know, is very competitive, but the average person on the streets is never even going to attempt it. And even if they do attempt, they quit at everything. Where like Maxim had, he had his huge growth.
And that's why like, I would say if you want to be world-class anything, like you really don't have that much competition. Like the very top, you know, half of a percentile, you know, is very competitive, but the average person on the streets is never even going to attempt it. And even if they do attempt, they quit at everything. Where like Maxim had, he had his huge growth.
And that's why like, I would say if you want to be world-class anything, like you really don't have that much competition. Like the very top, you know, half of a percentile, you know, is very competitive, but the average person on the streets is never even going to attempt it. And even if they do attempt, they quit at everything. Where like Maxim had, he had his huge growth.
He's like, no matter what, I have to make a video a day. And he just made a video about the fact that he made a video a day and he shows his follower count and all the crazy shit that happened to him when he just committed to the daily practice of getting better at his craft. So even for him, even if before he was good, I would still get around and try to get access to these people.
He's like, no matter what, I have to make a video a day. And he just made a video about the fact that he made a video a day and he shows his follower count and all the crazy shit that happened to him when he just committed to the daily practice of getting better at his craft. So even for him, even if before he was good, I would still get around and try to get access to these people.
He's like, no matter what, I have to make a video a day. And he just made a video about the fact that he made a video a day and he shows his follower count and all the crazy shit that happened to him when he just committed to the daily practice of getting better at his craft. So even for him, even if before he was good, I would still get around and try to get access to these people.
And if you can't access them. So like I started the very first episode of founders in September, 2016 was Ashley Vance's book on Elon Musk. It was the very first one. And part of that was because I was watching this, this guy named Kevin Rose. You remember Dave?
And if you can't access them. So like I started the very first episode of founders in September, 2016 was Ashley Vance's book on Elon Musk. It was the very first one. And part of that was because I was watching this, this guy named Kevin Rose. You remember Dave?
And if you can't access them. So like I started the very first episode of founders in September, 2016 was Ashley Vance's book on Elon Musk. It was the very first one. And part of that was because I was watching this, this guy named Kevin Rose. You remember Dave?
Okay. So, um, Kevin Rose had like one of this world-class video podcast in 2012 called Foundation.
Okay. So, um, Kevin Rose had like one of this world-class video podcast in 2012 called Foundation.
Okay. So, um, Kevin Rose had like one of this world-class video podcast in 2012 called Foundation.
Like the quality of the shoot was incredible. The guests were fucking incredible. Like I thought he was really good at it. And he interviews Elon when they're on the Tesla, they're at Tesla. I think the only Tesla on the market, they stopped making the Roadster. And I think they had just started producing the Model S. I want to get a little bit of context.
Like the quality of the shoot was incredible. The guests were fucking incredible. Like I thought he was really good at it. And he interviews Elon when they're on the Tesla, they're at Tesla. I think the only Tesla on the market, they stopped making the Roadster. And I think they had just started producing the Model S. I want to get a little bit of context.
Like the quality of the shoot was incredible. The guests were fucking incredible. Like I thought he was really good at it. And he interviews Elon when they're on the Tesla, they're at Tesla. I think the only Tesla on the market, they stopped making the Roadster. And I think they had just started producing the Model S. I want to get a little bit of context.
Cause I lived on YouTube. I don't even know if he was uploading to YouTube. He had to be uploading to YouTube, but like the website, it was like foundation.kr or something. It was like, it was like the fucking website was incredible.
Cause I lived on YouTube. I don't even know if he was uploading to YouTube. He had to be uploading to YouTube, but like the website, it was like foundation.kr or something. It was like, it was like the fucking website was incredible.
Cause I lived on YouTube. I don't even know if he was uploading to YouTube. He had to be uploading to YouTube, but like the website, it was like foundation.kr or something. It was like, it was like the fucking website was incredible.
I wonder like the alternate reality where he never stopped, kept doing it, you know, like it's just, he'd have a decade of practice before not realizing how valuable a great podcast can be, you know?
I wonder like the alternate reality where he never stopped, kept doing it, you know, like it's just, he'd have a decade of practice before not realizing how valuable a great podcast can be, you know?
I wonder like the alternate reality where he never stopped, kept doing it, you know, like it's just, he'd have a decade of practice before not realizing how valuable a great podcast can be, you know?
Yeah, but you jumped around a lot, which is like podcast compound. You know what I mean? Like if you look at- Yeah.
Yeah, but you jumped around a lot, which is like podcast compound. You know what I mean? Like if you look at- Yeah.
Yeah, but you jumped around a lot, which is like podcast compound. You know what I mean? Like if you look at- Yeah.
Yeah. But if he kept going, they would have. So I think there's another conversation we can have too about one of the most important ideas I've come across in the books is like the importance of being easy to interface with, which I think Steve Jobs is world-class at. Oh, they're all really good at, but he was probably the best there was.
Yeah. But if he kept going, they would have. So I think there's another conversation we can have too about one of the most important ideas I've come across in the books is like the importance of being easy to interface with, which I think Steve Jobs is world-class at. Oh, they're all really good at, but he was probably the best there was.
Yeah. But if he kept going, they would have. So I think there's another conversation we can have too about one of the most important ideas I've come across in the books is like the importance of being easy to interface with, which I think Steve Jobs is world-class at. Oh, they're all really good at, but he was probably the best there was.
But the reason I started with the Ashley Vance biography of Elon, this goes back to Maxim or any really talented person that's got to figure out what to do is like, If you can't act, if you can't move to a world-class city, you don't have any money or you don't have a network. It's like Kevin asked fucking Elon. He's just like, you moved from Canada. You didn't know anybody in California.
But the reason I started with the Ashley Vance biography of Elon, this goes back to Maxim or any really talented person that's got to figure out what to do is like, If you can't act, if you can't move to a world-class city, you don't have any money or you don't have a network. It's like Kevin asked fucking Elon. He's just like, you moved from Canada. You didn't know anybody in California.
But the reason I started with the Ashley Vance biography of Elon, this goes back to Maxim or any really talented person that's got to figure out what to do is like, If you can't act, if you can't move to a world-class city, you don't have any money or you don't have a network. It's like Kevin asked fucking Elon. He's just like, you moved from Canada. You didn't know anybody in California.
Like, who was your mentor? He's like, I didn't have a mentor. He goes, I read, he's like, did you read business books to learn how to build your fucking first company? He's like, no, I don't read business books. I read biographies and, this is what Elon says, I read biographies and autobiographies. I think they're helpful.
Like, who was your mentor? He's like, I didn't have a mentor. He goes, I read, he's like, did you read business books to learn how to build your fucking first company? He's like, no, I don't read business books. I read biographies and, this is what Elon says, I read biographies and autobiographies. I think they're helpful.
Like, who was your mentor? He's like, I didn't have a mentor. He goes, I read, he's like, did you read business books to learn how to build your fucking first company? He's like, no, I don't read business books. I read biographies and, this is what Elon says, I read biographies and autobiographies. I think they're helpful.
And then he goes on and lists, you know, Ben Franklin, every single person who ever built the rocket, Henry Ford, Nikola Tesla, all these other people. And I was like, and he goes, I think that's a way to find mentors in historical context. That's the sentence that Elon said. I was like, oh, that's a really good idea. And I was like, I should read more biographies.
And then he goes on and lists, you know, Ben Franklin, every single person who ever built the rocket, Henry Ford, Nikola Tesla, all these other people. And I was like, and he goes, I think that's a way to find mentors in historical context. That's the sentence that Elon said. I was like, oh, that's a really good idea. And I was like, I should read more biographies.
And then he goes on and lists, you know, Ben Franklin, every single person who ever built the rocket, Henry Ford, Nikola Tesla, all these other people. And I was like, and he goes, I think that's a way to find mentors in historical context. That's the sentence that Elon said. I was like, oh, that's a really good idea. And I was like, I should read more biographies.
And so I started reading biographies. I'm like, these things are pretty fucking great. They're very useful. You can download Toby Luque has this great line. where he says that biographies or books in general are the closest thing you'll come to finding a cheat code in real life because you can download the entire learnings of somebody's, you know, multi-decade long career in a few hours.
And so I started reading biographies. I'm like, these things are pretty fucking great. They're very useful. You can download Toby Luque has this great line. where he says that biographies or books in general are the closest thing you'll come to finding a cheat code in real life because you can download the entire learnings of somebody's, you know, multi-decade long career in a few hours.
And so I started reading biographies. I'm like, these things are pretty fucking great. They're very useful. You can download Toby Luque has this great line. where he says that biographies or books in general are the closest thing you'll come to finding a cheat code in real life because you can download the entire learnings of somebody's, you know, multi-decade long career in a few hours.
It's exactly what Elon was doing. And then when you read more biographies, you realize that every person that lived a life so remarkable, somebody wrote a book about them, all read biographies. It's like this weird ongoing chain of, hey, let's use learning from history as a form of leverage, find ideas from somebody else's experience I can use in my life to kind of get me to where I want to go.
It's exactly what Elon was doing. And then when you read more biographies, you realize that every person that lived a life so remarkable, somebody wrote a book about them, all read biographies. It's like this weird ongoing chain of, hey, let's use learning from history as a form of leverage, find ideas from somebody else's experience I can use in my life to kind of get me to where I want to go.
It's exactly what Elon was doing. And then when you read more biographies, you realize that every person that lived a life so remarkable, somebody wrote a book about them, all read biographies. It's like this weird ongoing chain of, hey, let's use learning from history as a form of leverage, find ideas from somebody else's experience I can use in my life to kind of get me to where I want to go.
So, yeah, that's what I would do. It's like, if I was a young kid, I'd tell this to my own daughter. My son's too young for this. It's just like, I probably bought her... I don't fucking know, 30, 40 of these little young biographies. It's called, um, little people, big dreams. They're in every single bookstore that I've ever gone into.
So, yeah, that's what I would do. It's like, if I was a young kid, I'd tell this to my own daughter. My son's too young for this. It's just like, I probably bought her... I don't fucking know, 30, 40 of these little young biographies. It's called, um, little people, big dreams. They're in every single bookstore that I've ever gone into.
So, yeah, that's what I would do. It's like, if I was a young kid, I'd tell this to my own daughter. My son's too young for this. It's just like, I probably bought her... I don't fucking know, 30, 40 of these little young biographies. It's called, um, little people, big dreams. They're in every single bookstore that I've ever gone into.
Um, and it's, you know, every single person, Taylor Swift, Coco Chanel, Walt Disney, everybody. And it's a biography that now she's getting a little too old for them. But when she was young, I was just having her read all these biographies. Like you could do whatever you want to do. Startup idea for you. Startup. Well, it's funny. We talked about founders for kids.
Um, and it's, you know, every single person, Taylor Swift, Coco Chanel, Walt Disney, everybody. And it's a biography that now she's getting a little too old for them. But when she was young, I was just having her read all these biographies. Like you could do whatever you want to do. Startup idea for you. Startup. Well, it's funny. We talked about founders for kids.
Um, and it's, you know, every single person, Taylor Swift, Coco Chanel, Walt Disney, everybody. And it's a biography that now she's getting a little too old for them. But when she was young, I was just having her read all these biographies. Like you could do whatever you want to do. Startup idea for you. Startup. Well, it's funny. We talked about founders for kids.
So we talked about Sam Poirier before. That's literally like the reason I knew he would text back fast is because we're working on a project for founders for kids. It's actually going to be like more like comic book-esque because Sam's life was changed because when he was a young boy, his dad would read him like kid versions of biographies about great Frenchmen. And they were very specific.
So we talked about Sam Poirier before. That's literally like the reason I knew he would text back fast is because we're working on a project for founders for kids. It's actually going to be like more like comic book-esque because Sam's life was changed because when he was a young boy, his dad would read him like kid versions of biographies about great Frenchmen. And they were very specific.
So we talked about Sam Poirier before. That's literally like the reason I knew he would text back fast is because we're working on a project for founders for kids. It's actually going to be like more like comic book-esque because Sam's life was changed because when he was a young boy, his dad would read him like kid versions of biographies about great Frenchmen. And they were very specific.
They had to be great people.
They had to be great people.
They had to be great people.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
that were that were either living in france or living in montreal which i thought was funny he's like and it inspired him to become an entrepreneur and then led him to the deal fellowship and you know kind of can change the trajectory of a young kid's life and i was like i don't know if it's probably a shit business but it's a great service to the world it would be like really cool um so the first one we're working on we'll see if it's good is uh a kid's version of rockefeller's biography i'm surprised it's not a kid's version of celine dion but
that were that were either living in france or living in montreal which i thought was funny he's like and it inspired him to become an entrepreneur and then led him to the deal fellowship and you know kind of can change the trajectory of a young kid's life and i was like i don't know if it's probably a shit business but it's a great service to the world it would be like really cool um so the first one we're working on we'll see if it's good is uh a kid's version of rockefeller's biography i'm surprised it's not a kid's version of celine dion but
that were that were either living in france or living in montreal which i thought was funny he's like and it inspired him to become an entrepreneur and then led him to the deal fellowship and you know kind of can change the trajectory of a young kid's life and i was like i don't know if it's probably a shit business but it's a great service to the world it would be like really cool um so the first one we're working on we'll see if it's good is uh a kid's version of rockefeller's biography i'm surprised it's not a kid's version of celine dion but
Yeah. I don't, you've got to figure out who else we're going to do. No, no one, Sam would probably be Napoleon.
Yeah. I don't, you've got to figure out who else we're going to do. No, no one, Sam would probably be Napoleon.
Yeah. I don't, you've got to figure out who else we're going to do. No, no one, Sam would probably be Napoleon.
So do you want to talk podcast startup ideas?
So do you want to talk podcast startup ideas?
So do you want to talk podcast startup ideas?
As many as you can. Like, I don't know what your day-to-day life is. Do you like audio books? Yeah. How do you like to read?
As many as you can. Like, I don't know what your day-to-day life is. Do you like audio books? Yeah. How do you like to read?
As many as you can. Like, I don't know what your day-to-day life is. Do you like audio books? Yeah. How do you like to read?
So I feel like there's no reason you can't read, listen to one audio book a week.
So I feel like there's no reason you can't read, listen to one audio book a week.
So I feel like there's no reason you can't read, listen to one audio book a week.
I agree with that.
I agree with that.
I agree with that.
Yeah, I have a rational love affair with physical books. My workflow for the podcast is literally twice as long because I insist on reading physical books than if I read Kindle versions. Also, I read a lot of old books that there are no fucking audio. There is nothing besides the physical book. There's no Kindle, there's no audio, nothing. but it's the way of reading I fell in love with.
Yeah, I have a rational love affair with physical books. My workflow for the podcast is literally twice as long because I insist on reading physical books than if I read Kindle versions. Also, I read a lot of old books that there are no fucking audio. There is nothing besides the physical book. There's no Kindle, there's no audio, nothing. but it's the way of reading I fell in love with.
Yeah, I have a rational love affair with physical books. My workflow for the podcast is literally twice as long because I insist on reading physical books than if I read Kindle versions. Also, I read a lot of old books that there are no fucking audio. There is nothing besides the physical book. There's no Kindle, there's no audio, nothing. but it's the way of reading I fell in love with.
And like, for me, I actually think there's an important part where like, I feel we live in a society where it's like over, everything's like over-optimized and like, way too much prioritization spent on like efficiency and like speeding things up. We actually think spending longer with the material makes my output better.
And like, for me, I actually think there's an important part where like, I feel we live in a society where it's like over, everything's like over-optimized and like, way too much prioritization spent on like efficiency and like speeding things up. We actually think spending longer with the material makes my output better.
And like, for me, I actually think there's an important part where like, I feel we live in a society where it's like over, everything's like over-optimized and like, way too much prioritization spent on like efficiency and like speeding things up. We actually think spending longer with the material makes my output better.
Like instead of, I'm not trying to take what's going to take me 40 hours, usually for every one hour of audio that I produce, it takes about 40 hours of reading and research. People are like, well, you can do summaries, you can do all this other stuff and make it to 20. It's like, yeah, but then it'd be...
Like instead of, I'm not trying to take what's going to take me 40 hours, usually for every one hour of audio that I produce, it takes about 40 hours of reading and research. People are like, well, you can do summaries, you can do all this other stuff and make it to 20. It's like, yeah, but then it'd be...
Like instead of, I'm not trying to take what's going to take me 40 hours, usually for every one hour of audio that I produce, it takes about 40 hours of reading and research. People are like, well, you can do summaries, you can do all this other stuff and make it to 20. It's like, yeah, but then it'd be...
more than half worse because it's the fact I spent so much time with the material that then I can then turn around and teach it or explain it in a useful way to somebody else. So I have this line that I stole from Jerry Seinfeld that the hard way is the right way. And so I use that for like, you know, I sit there when I, when you look at how I go through these books,
more than half worse because it's the fact I spent so much time with the material that then I can then turn around and teach it or explain it in a useful way to somebody else. So I have this line that I stole from Jerry Seinfeld that the hard way is the right way. And so I use that for like, you know, I sit there when I, when you look at how I go through these books,
more than half worse because it's the fact I spent so much time with the material that then I can then turn around and teach it or explain it in a useful way to somebody else. So I have this line that I stole from Jerry Seinfeld that the hard way is the right way. And so I use that for like, you know, I sit there when I, when you look at how I go through these books,
looks like I'm doing goddamn arts and crafts. Like I sit down with a pen, a ruler, a post-it note, scissors. Like I'm literally doing like an art project into these books. But I think forcing myself to slow down and spend more time with the material and then doing that every day for eight years actually makes, that compounds and like,
looks like I'm doing goddamn arts and crafts. Like I sit down with a pen, a ruler, a post-it note, scissors. Like I'm literally doing like an art project into these books. But I think forcing myself to slow down and spend more time with the material and then doing that every day for eight years actually makes, that compounds and like,
looks like I'm doing goddamn arts and crafts. Like I sit down with a pen, a ruler, a post-it note, scissors. Like I'm literally doing like an art project into these books. But I think forcing myself to slow down and spend more time with the material and then doing that every day for eight years actually makes, that compounds and like,
doing it, you don't see what you miss out by taking like the shorter route. And I think actually taking like a longer time, but I'm one of these people that's just like, I have, you know, I think 600 physical books in my house, but I also have like 300 on the Kindle. Like I'll read whatever, I don't care.
doing it, you don't see what you miss out by taking like the shorter route. And I think actually taking like a longer time, but I'm one of these people that's just like, I have, you know, I think 600 physical books in my house, but I also have like 300 on the Kindle. Like I'll read whatever, I don't care.
doing it, you don't see what you miss out by taking like the shorter route. And I think actually taking like a longer time, but I'm one of these people that's just like, I have, you know, I think 600 physical books in my house, but I also have like 300 on the Kindle. Like I'll read whatever, I don't care.
I actually saw another idea from Elon where he said that he read entire books because he travels so much on the Kindle app on the iPhone. I was like, that can't work. And I started using it. I was like, that shit works. Like, especially when you're traveling, it's like so much easier than carrying a book with you or whatever.
I actually saw another idea from Elon where he said that he read entire books because he travels so much on the Kindle app on the iPhone. I was like, that can't work. And I started using it. I was like, that shit works. Like, especially when you're traveling, it's like so much easier than carrying a book with you or whatever.
I actually saw another idea from Elon where he said that he read entire books because he travels so much on the Kindle app on the iPhone. I was like, that can't work. And I started using it. I was like, that shit works. Like, especially when you're traveling, it's like so much easier than carrying a book with you or whatever.
But I also think that I'm one of the rare people think audio, listening to audiobook is reading. People are like, it's not reading. It's like this.
But I also think that I'm one of the rare people think audio, listening to audiobook is reading. People are like, it's not reading. It's like this.
But I also think that I'm one of the rare people think audio, listening to audiobook is reading. People are like, it's not reading. It's like this.
the same thing it's getting the ideas from the book into your head i don't care how you do it but yeah i mean if you can't do a biography a week do one a month like it depends on what your schedule is and what like what you have going on but think about it's like the average person young person especially for like all the people in the room you guys probably are exercising five hours a week even if it's like walking running lifting weights whatever you're doing okay five hours of audiobook 20 hours there's two books a month right there
the same thing it's getting the ideas from the book into your head i don't care how you do it but yeah i mean if you can't do a biography a week do one a month like it depends on what your schedule is and what like what you have going on but think about it's like the average person young person especially for like all the people in the room you guys probably are exercising five hours a week even if it's like walking running lifting weights whatever you're doing okay five hours of audiobook 20 hours there's two books a month right there
the same thing it's getting the ideas from the book into your head i don't care how you do it but yeah i mean if you can't do a biography a week do one a month like it depends on what your schedule is and what like what you have going on but think about it's like the average person young person especially for like all the people in the room you guys probably are exercising five hours a week even if it's like walking running lifting weights whatever you're doing okay five hours of audiobook 20 hours there's two books a month right there
And then 24 this year, you know, just 48 the next year, go back and also I think it's smart idea to go back and like re-listen and reread things, especially like we forget that we forget. And so like I'll go and there's some books, James Dyson's autobiography is a great example. I've read it four times. It's episode 25, 200, 205, and 300.
And then 24 this year, you know, just 48 the next year, go back and also I think it's smart idea to go back and like re-listen and reread things, especially like we forget that we forget. And so like I'll go and there's some books, James Dyson's autobiography is a great example. I've read it four times. It's episode 25, 200, 205, and 300.
And then 24 this year, you know, just 48 the next year, go back and also I think it's smart idea to go back and like re-listen and reread things, especially like we forget that we forget. And so like I'll go and there's some books, James Dyson's autobiography is a great example. I've read it four times. It's episode 25, 200, 205, and 300.
Read it. And then every time I'm like, I forgot that part or like something has happened in my life or I learned something else that then changes the meaning or my interpretation of the words on the page. So I'm a huge proponent of that. But yeah, I think everybody, like I am an evangelist for reading biographies. I just think it's so fucking smart.
Read it. And then every time I'm like, I forgot that part or like something has happened in my life or I learned something else that then changes the meaning or my interpretation of the words on the page. So I'm a huge proponent of that. But yeah, I think everybody, like I am an evangelist for reading biographies. I just think it's so fucking smart.
Read it. And then every time I'm like, I forgot that part or like something has happened in my life or I learned something else that then changes the meaning or my interpretation of the words on the page. So I'm a huge proponent of that. But yeah, I think everybody, like I am an evangelist for reading biographies. I just think it's so fucking smart.
Have you ever seen what my library looks like?
Have you ever seen what my library looks like?
Have you ever seen what my library looks like?
So Patrick tweeted that out. It's in order by episode number starting in the top left-hand corner. So everywhere... where my hand is before that I've read for the podcast. Everything after that is yet to be read, but it's not like the, the unread books are not in order. I don't know what I'm going to read next week until I just like pick it up that week.
So Patrick tweeted that out. It's in order by episode number starting in the top left-hand corner. So everywhere... where my hand is before that I've read for the podcast. Everything after that is yet to be read, but it's not like the, the unread books are not in order. I don't know what I'm going to read next week until I just like pick it up that week.
So Patrick tweeted that out. It's in order by episode number starting in the top left-hand corner. So everywhere... where my hand is before that I've read for the podcast. Everything after that is yet to be read, but it's not like the, the unread books are not in order. I don't know what I'm going to read next week until I just like pick it up that week.
I don't know because I didn't understand that I just have a shockingly long attention span. And I think having a long attention span is going to get more valuable in the world. Because I do think because of the tools we use every day, it's shrinking. There's a great line that Charlie Munger said where he's just like, I didn't succeed because of intelligence.
I don't know because I didn't understand that I just have a shockingly long attention span. And I think having a long attention span is going to get more valuable in the world. Because I do think because of the tools we use every day, it's shrinking. There's a great line that Charlie Munger said where he's just like, I didn't succeed because of intelligence.
I don't know because I didn't understand that I just have a shockingly long attention span. And I think having a long attention span is going to get more valuable in the world. Because I do think because of the tools we use every day, it's shrinking. There's a great line that Charlie Munger said where he's just like, I didn't succeed because of intelligence.
I succeeded because I had a long attention span. And I'm working on an episode on Jensen Wong right now. And what's remarkable is like, this guy's been in love with Nvidia and building Nvidia and running Nvidia for three decades. And he's like more interested in it today than he's ever been. It's like, that's the definition of a long attention span. Um,
I succeeded because I had a long attention span. And I'm working on an episode on Jensen Wong right now. And what's remarkable is like, this guy's been in love with Nvidia and building Nvidia and running Nvidia for three decades. And he's like more interested in it today than he's ever been. It's like, that's the definition of a long attention span. Um,
I succeeded because I had a long attention span. And I'm working on an episode on Jensen Wong right now. And what's remarkable is like, this guy's been in love with Nvidia and building Nvidia and running Nvidia for three decades. And he's like more interested in it today than he's ever been. It's like, that's the definition of a long attention span. Um,
I get invited sometimes to give these talks at these conferences. And most of them, in fact, especially if you have to travel because I have young kids, I was like, no. I don't care what the price is. It's like missing one day of my four-year-old's life right now is like missing like 100 days. Because these early years are so important. So I'm very hesitant to do that.
I get invited sometimes to give these talks at these conferences. And most of them, in fact, especially if you have to travel because I have young kids, I was like, no. I don't care what the price is. It's like missing one day of my four-year-old's life right now is like missing like 100 days. Because these early years are so important. So I'm very hesitant to do that.
I get invited sometimes to give these talks at these conferences. And most of them, in fact, especially if you have to travel because I have young kids, I was like, no. I don't care what the price is. It's like missing one day of my four-year-old's life right now is like missing like 100 days. Because these early years are so important. So I'm very hesitant to do that.
But I've done a few locally there in Miami. I'm like, oh, fuck it. I can just drive over here. I'll do it. I'll do it for free. I don't even care. And one of the funny ones was... It was a conference run by a friend of mine who I really like and it's for post-exit founders. And essentially my talk was just like,
But I've done a few locally there in Miami. I'm like, oh, fuck it. I can just drive over here. I'll do it. I'll do it for free. I don't even care. And one of the funny ones was... It was a conference run by a friend of mine who I really like and it's for post-exit founders. And essentially my talk was just like,
But I've done a few locally there in Miami. I'm like, oh, fuck it. I can just drive over here. I'll do it. I'll do it for free. I don't even care. And one of the funny ones was... It was a conference run by a friend of mine who I really like and it's for post-exit founders. And essentially my talk was just like,
When people walk up to me and they're like, or text me or call me, like I sold my company. I always say the same thing. I'm like, sorry to hear that. Like your goal, especially if it's not your life's work, right? I think your goal in life is to find what you are uniquely created to do. And it should be an active service for other human beings.
When people walk up to me and they're like, or text me or call me, like I sold my company. I always say the same thing. I'm like, sorry to hear that. Like your goal, especially if it's not your life's work, right? I think your goal in life is to find what you are uniquely created to do. And it should be an active service for other human beings.
When people walk up to me and they're like, or text me or call me, like I sold my company. I always say the same thing. I'm like, sorry to hear that. Like your goal, especially if it's not your life's work, right? I think your goal in life is to find what you are uniquely created to do. And it should be an active service for other human beings.
One of my favorite lines from the history of entrepreneurship comes from Henry Ford, where he said, money comes naturally as a result of service, okay? What I can't stand is entrepreneurs that are like, I'll get emails that are like, hey, I want to build like a $100 billion company. There's like some kind of fucking number attached. And then I'll ask them like, who are your entrepreneur heroes?
One of my favorite lines from the history of entrepreneurship comes from Henry Ford, where he said, money comes naturally as a result of service, okay? What I can't stand is entrepreneurs that are like, I'll get emails that are like, hey, I want to build like a $100 billion company. There's like some kind of fucking number attached. And then I'll ask them like, who are your entrepreneur heroes?
One of my favorite lines from the history of entrepreneurship comes from Henry Ford, where he said, money comes naturally as a result of service, okay? What I can't stand is entrepreneurs that are like, I'll get emails that are like, hey, I want to build like a $100 billion company. There's like some kind of fucking number attached. And then I'll ask them like, who are your entrepreneur heroes?
And they're like, Steve Jobs or whatever. It's like, you think Steve Jobs started Apple because he thought he was going to build a $3 trillion company? It's like your motivation is wrong for this.
And they're like, Steve Jobs or whatever. It's like, you think Steve Jobs started Apple because he thought he was going to build a $3 trillion company? It's like your motivation is wrong for this.
And they're like, Steve Jobs or whatever. It's like, you think Steve Jobs started Apple because he thought he was going to build a $3 trillion company? It's like your motivation is wrong for this.
And so what I think is happening is like, people have much shorter attention spans and you're also reflecting that in the fact that there is now such thing as an entrepreneurial industry, which did not exist when we were younger, right? This is something that's relatively new.
And so what I think is happening is like, people have much shorter attention spans and you're also reflecting that in the fact that there is now such thing as an entrepreneurial industry, which did not exist when we were younger, right? This is something that's relatively new.
And so what I think is happening is like, people have much shorter attention spans and you're also reflecting that in the fact that there is now such thing as an entrepreneurial industry, which did not exist when we were younger, right? This is something that's relatively new.
Most of it is funded obviously, like you look at the incentive structure in all forms of media, most of it's funded from VC. Like if you think about all the media that founders are consuming, it's like created by and funded by VCs. It's really fucking weird. It's fucking weird to me.
Most of it is funded obviously, like you look at the incentive structure in all forms of media, most of it's funded from VC. Like if you think about all the media that founders are consuming, it's like created by and funded by VCs. It's really fucking weird. It's fucking weird to me.
Most of it is funded obviously, like you look at the incentive structure in all forms of media, most of it's funded from VC. Like if you think about all the media that founders are consuming, it's like created by and funded by VCs. It's really fucking weird. It's fucking weird to me.
And so like, I don't have advice other than if you have a short attention span, that probably is a good indicator that you're not, you haven't found what you should be working on because I can sit there and read a fascinating, like I just told you I finished reading before we started recording. Or maybe I didn't, maybe I was talking about on the phone on the way over.
And so like, I don't have advice other than if you have a short attention span, that probably is a good indicator that you're not, you haven't found what you should be working on because I can sit there and read a fascinating, like I just told you I finished reading before we started recording. Or maybe I didn't, maybe I was talking about on the phone on the way over.
And so like, I don't have advice other than if you have a short attention span, that probably is a good indicator that you're not, you haven't found what you should be working on because I can sit there and read a fascinating, like I just told you I finished reading before we started recording. Or maybe I didn't, maybe I was talking about on the phone on the way over.
No, I think I said this to you. I just finished reading. There's a secret biography written by Michael Moritz of Don Valentine that's passed around in Sequoia and Sequoia founders have it too. I'll tell you, it's only, like, I sat there and read the whole fucking thing. Like, I had to, it was so entertaining, I didn't want to go to sleep.
No, I think I said this to you. I just finished reading. There's a secret biography written by Michael Moritz of Don Valentine that's passed around in Sequoia and Sequoia founders have it too. I'll tell you, it's only, like, I sat there and read the whole fucking thing. Like, I had to, it was so entertaining, I didn't want to go to sleep.
No, I think I said this to you. I just finished reading. There's a secret biography written by Michael Moritz of Don Valentine that's passed around in Sequoia and Sequoia founders have it too. I'll tell you, it's only, like, I sat there and read the whole fucking thing. Like, I had to, it was so entertaining, I didn't want to go to sleep.
I wasn't like, oh, let me read one page, let me go scroll Twitter, let me read one page, go to scroll TikTok. It's like, this shit is fucking incredible. And I think that, you know, a lot of the best founders, like, I don't think Steve Jobs, when he was working at Apple, was like, you know, worried about what else was going on other than what he was working on at Apple. Yeah.
I wasn't like, oh, let me read one page, let me go scroll Twitter, let me read one page, go to scroll TikTok. It's like, this shit is fucking incredible. And I think that, you know, a lot of the best founders, like, I don't think Steve Jobs, when he was working at Apple, was like, you know, worried about what else was going on other than what he was working on at Apple. Yeah.
I wasn't like, oh, let me read one page, let me go scroll Twitter, let me read one page, go to scroll TikTok. It's like, this shit is fucking incredible. And I think that, you know, a lot of the best founders, like, I don't think Steve Jobs, when he was working at Apple, was like, you know, worried about what else was going on other than what he was working on at Apple. Yeah.
So I think the anecdote to a short attention span is like literally find, like taking some time to yourself and figuring out like, what is authentic to you? What is natural to you? What are you actually interested in? And trying to do Munger's advice is like, what are you intensely interested in? And then do that for money.
So I think the anecdote to a short attention span is like literally find, like taking some time to yourself and figuring out like, what is authentic to you? What is natural to you? What are you actually interested in? And trying to do Munger's advice is like, what are you intensely interested in? And then do that for money.
So I think the anecdote to a short attention span is like literally find, like taking some time to yourself and figuring out like, what is authentic to you? What is natural to you? What are you actually interested in? And trying to do Munger's advice is like, what are you intensely interested in? And then do that for money.
And at the beginning, you might not make any money, but anything that you're interested in, there's probably millions of people that are interested in that as well. Like I remember when I first started the podcast, People are like, you can't do an entrepreneurship podcast. This is 2016. First they said, it's too late to do a podcast, which is fucking hilarious.
And at the beginning, you might not make any money, but anything that you're interested in, there's probably millions of people that are interested in that as well. Like I remember when I first started the podcast, People are like, you can't do an entrepreneurship podcast. This is 2016. First they said, it's too late to do a podcast, which is fucking hilarious.
And at the beginning, you might not make any money, but anything that you're interested in, there's probably millions of people that are interested in that as well. Like I remember when I first started the podcast, People are like, you can't do an entrepreneurship podcast. This is 2016. First they said, it's too late to do a podcast, which is fucking hilarious.
And so I was like, I don't think that's true. They're like, why? I go, there's 750,000 podcasts in the Apple directory right now. 250,000 of them are active. Humans quit at everything all the time. And even you fast forward to now, I'm close to the human lab guys. They just sent me data.
And so I was like, I don't think that's true. They're like, why? I go, there's 750,000 podcasts in the Apple directory right now. 250,000 of them are active. Humans quit at everything all the time. And even you fast forward to now, I'm close to the human lab guys. They just sent me data.
And so I was like, I don't think that's true. They're like, why? I go, there's 750,000 podcasts in the Apple directory right now. 250,000 of them are active. Humans quit at everything all the time. And even you fast forward to now, I'm close to the human lab guys. They just sent me data.
Even now, that's what eight years later, there's like only like 333,000, 330,000 podcasts that have uploaded a new episode in the last month. That is tiny. But back then they're like, one, it's too late. You've already missed the boat. Two, entrepreneurship is a niche subject. And I'm like, okay. That just doesn't make any sense to me. I go, how many people own businesses, right?
Even now, that's what eight years later, there's like only like 333,000, 330,000 podcasts that have uploaded a new episode in the last month. That is tiny. But back then they're like, one, it's too late. You've already missed the boat. Two, entrepreneurship is a niche subject. And I'm like, okay. That just doesn't make any sense to me. I go, how many people own businesses, right?
Even now, that's what eight years later, there's like only like 333,000, 330,000 podcasts that have uploaded a new episode in the last month. That is tiny. But back then they're like, one, it's too late. You've already missed the boat. Two, entrepreneurship is a niche subject. And I'm like, okay. That just doesn't make any sense to me. I go, how many people own businesses, right?
There's a business owner to me, entrepreneur, like business owners. So my idea was like, how many people own a business, speak English and are connected to the internet? And you run the numbers, it's like 140 million people. Like you grab less than 1% of them and you have a phenomenally successful business. Like, wait, this is not a niche subject.
There's a business owner to me, entrepreneur, like business owners. So my idea was like, how many people own a business, speak English and are connected to the internet? And you run the numbers, it's like 140 million people. Like you grab less than 1% of them and you have a phenomenally successful business. Like, wait, this is not a niche subject.
There's a business owner to me, entrepreneur, like business owners. So my idea was like, how many people own a business, speak English and are connected to the internet? And you run the numbers, it's like 140 million people. Like you grab less than 1% of them and you have a phenomenally successful business. Like, wait, this is not a niche subject.
And now it turns out, like, if you look at what 11 Labs is doing, what Spotify is doing, what YouTube's doing, My calculation was way off because it's not just English speaking people. At the platform level, they're going to, you're going to be in Brazil. You're going to love founders. It's going to know that you speak Portuguese and you're going to hear me speaking fucking Portuguese.
And now it turns out, like, if you look at what 11 Labs is doing, what Spotify is doing, what YouTube's doing, My calculation was way off because it's not just English speaking people. At the platform level, they're going to, you're going to be in Brazil. You're going to love founders. It's going to know that you speak Portuguese and you're going to hear me speaking fucking Portuguese.
And now it turns out, like, if you look at what 11 Labs is doing, what Spotify is doing, what YouTube's doing, My calculation was way off because it's not just English speaking people. At the platform level, they're going to, you're going to be in Brazil. You're going to love founders. It's going to know that you speak Portuguese and you're going to hear me speaking fucking Portuguese.
Yeah, so I don't have a good answer other than like find something where you don't have a short attention span. You ever seen a fucking kid play video games? Do they do it for two minutes and put it down? No, they play forever. They just haven't found something they're actually interested in.
Yeah, so I don't have a good answer other than like find something where you don't have a short attention span. You ever seen a fucking kid play video games? Do they do it for two minutes and put it down? No, they play forever. They just haven't found something they're actually interested in.
Yeah, so I don't have a good answer other than like find something where you don't have a short attention span. You ever seen a fucking kid play video games? Do they do it for two minutes and put it down? No, they play forever. They just haven't found something they're actually interested in.
I thought it was actually like fishing.
I thought it was actually like fishing.
I thought it was actually like fishing.
Fish is a wildly profitable. There's a fascinating business story too.
Fish is a wildly profitable. There's a fascinating business story too.
Fish is a wildly profitable. There's a fascinating business story too.
I think there's an interesting, the fish story brought something else to mind where I'm always interested in, especially for the people that build businesses that are essentially complete opposite of the way everybody else in their industry does. I think there's like a lot of insight there. There's two examples.
I think there's an interesting, the fish story brought something else to mind where I'm always interested in, especially for the people that build businesses that are essentially complete opposite of the way everybody else in their industry does. I think there's like a lot of insight there. There's two examples.
I think there's an interesting, the fish story brought something else to mind where I'm always interested in, especially for the people that build businesses that are essentially complete opposite of the way everybody else in their industry does. I think there's like a lot of insight there. There's two examples.
I remember reading, there's this blog that was run by this guy in San Francisco who actually just started following on Twitter. It turns out he listens to founders. It's called Priceonomics. Do you remember this? It sounds familiar. They would publish their blog in a book And one of the blogs they would do is they'd find these like weird, you know, things about economics.
I remember reading, there's this blog that was run by this guy in San Francisco who actually just started following on Twitter. It turns out he listens to founders. It's called Priceonomics. Do you remember this? It sounds familiar. They would publish their blog in a book And one of the blogs they would do is they'd find these like weird, you know, things about economics.
I remember reading, there's this blog that was run by this guy in San Francisco who actually just started following on Twitter. It turns out he listens to founders. It's called Priceonomics. Do you remember this? It sounds familiar. They would publish their blog in a book And one of the blogs they would do is they'd find these like weird, you know, things about economics.
And one of them was the economics of fish where it's like, they don't have any top 10 hits. You know, they make almost, I think they gave away a lot of their music for free before people were doing that. Yet they were making like 140 million a year in tour revenue at like a decent margin, like unbelievable amount of money.
And one of them was the economics of fish where it's like, they don't have any top 10 hits. You know, they make almost, I think they gave away a lot of their music for free before people were doing that. Yet they were making like 140 million a year in tour revenue at like a decent margin, like unbelievable amount of money.
And one of them was the economics of fish where it's like, they don't have any top 10 hits. You know, they make almost, I think they gave away a lot of their music for free before people were doing that. Yet they were making like 140 million a year in tour revenue at like a decent margin, like unbelievable amount of money.
And so I just did an episode last year, maybe a year and a half ago on Jimmy Buffett. And I think it's right after he died. And the reason I had the idea to do that is because if you look, there's like these lists they make of, you know, top wealthiest people in whatever industry. And I remember looking one time at the top wealthiest musicians. It's everybody you would expect, right?
And so I just did an episode last year, maybe a year and a half ago on Jimmy Buffett. And I think it's right after he died. And the reason I had the idea to do that is because if you look, there's like these lists they make of, you know, top wealthiest people in whatever industry. And I remember looking one time at the top wealthiest musicians. It's everybody you would expect, right?
And so I just did an episode last year, maybe a year and a half ago on Jimmy Buffett. And I think it's right after he died. And the reason I had the idea to do that is because if you look, there's like these lists they make of, you know, top wealthiest people in whatever industry. And I remember looking one time at the top wealthiest musicians. It's everybody you would expect, right?
Like, you know, everybody in the list. And then you get down here. It's like number seven. It's like Jimmy Buffett. It's like, what the fuck? It's like not like Rihanna has hits, you know, U2 or whoever, like all these people, Bruce Springsteen, like it makes perfect sense why they're on this list. How the hell did Jimmy Buffett get on the list? So that made it be like really fascinating.
Like, you know, everybody in the list. And then you get down here. It's like number seven. It's like Jimmy Buffett. It's like, what the fuck? It's like not like Rihanna has hits, you know, U2 or whoever, like all these people, Bruce Springsteen, like it makes perfect sense why they're on this list. How the hell did Jimmy Buffett get on the list? So that made it be like really fascinating.
Like, you know, everybody in the list. And then you get down here. It's like number seven. It's like Jimmy Buffett. It's like, what the fuck? It's like not like Rihanna has hits, you know, U2 or whoever, like all these people, Bruce Springsteen, like it makes perfect sense why they're on this list. How the hell did Jimmy Buffett get on the list? So that made it be like really fascinating.
It's very similar situation to Phish where it's like, essentially he started like what I would consider like a traveling cult and the way he was able to compound He made his money on tour, right? So if you're on tour, it doesn't matter where you chart on the billboard. It just matters. Like when you come to Austin, Texas in May every year, can you sell the amount of tickets you want?
It's very similar situation to Phish where it's like, essentially he started like what I would consider like a traveling cult and the way he was able to compound He made his money on tour, right? So if you're on tour, it doesn't matter where you chart on the billboard. It just matters. Like when you come to Austin, Texas in May every year, can you sell the amount of tickets you want?
It's very similar situation to Phish where it's like, essentially he started like what I would consider like a traveling cult and the way he was able to compound He made his money on tour, right? So if you're on tour, it doesn't matter where you chart on the billboard. It just matters. Like when you come to Austin, Texas in May every year, can you sell the amount of tickets you want?
And then he was doing it so long that his audience would compound. So you'd be going there now. And then 10 years from now, you're bringing your 10 year old with you. And then your 10 year old is bringing, you know, now your 10 year old's 25 and going without you or whatever the case is.
And then he was doing it so long that his audience would compound. So you'd be going there now. And then 10 years from now, you're bringing your 10 year old with you. And then your 10 year old is bringing, you know, now your 10 year old's 25 and going without you or whatever the case is.
And then he was doing it so long that his audience would compound. So you'd be going there now. And then 10 years from now, you're bringing your 10 year old with you. And then your 10 year old is bringing, you know, now your 10 year old's 25 and going without you or whatever the case is.
And there was also a very fascinating way that he would make money is essentially he made the vast majority of his money through licensing. Right. And so as his...
And there was also a very fascinating way that he would make money is essentially he made the vast majority of his money through licensing. Right. And so as his...
And there was also a very fascinating way that he would make money is essentially he made the vast majority of his money through licensing. Right. And so as his...
audience age and they were you know they were just like him he was in the keys he liked to drink all the time they like to party they don't like to work they don't except he had a fierce work ethic right so everybody else in his audience didn't like to work he worked all the time and so he winds up making like seven i forgot the numbers are in the podcast it's like so you fast forward 15 20 years
audience age and they were you know they were just like him he was in the keys he liked to drink all the time they like to party they don't like to work they don't except he had a fierce work ethic right so everybody else in his audience didn't like to work he worked all the time and so he winds up making like seven i forgot the numbers are in the podcast it's like so you fast forward 15 20 years
audience age and they were you know they were just like him he was in the keys he liked to drink all the time they like to party they don't like to work they don't except he had a fierce work ethic right so everybody else in his audience didn't like to work he worked all the time and so he winds up making like seven i forgot the numbers are in the podcast it's like so you fast forward 15 20 years
Again, don't, you know, find what you're meant to do. And then just time carries most of the weight. Like do not interrupt the compounding. Time carries most of the weight. That's so important. And all these entrepreneurs are jumping around or just missing all the monies in the future.
Again, don't, you know, find what you're meant to do. And then just time carries most of the weight. Like do not interrupt the compounding. Time carries most of the weight. That's so important. And all these entrepreneurs are jumping around or just missing all the monies in the future.
Again, don't, you know, find what you're meant to do. And then just time carries most of the weight. Like do not interrupt the compounding. Time carries most of the weight. That's so important. And all these entrepreneurs are jumping around or just missing all the monies in the future.
So you fast forward 15, 20 years, he's making like 75 million a year in his pocket, just from the license agreements, right? Not including the equity value. So when he passed away, he gave the equity he had in his company to his wife, I think it was like another $1.7 billion, right? It was 1.7 billion equity, but the guy's been pocketing 50 million plus year after year for a decade and a half.
So you fast forward 15, 20 years, he's making like 75 million a year in his pocket, just from the license agreements, right? Not including the equity value. So when he passed away, he gave the equity he had in his company to his wife, I think it was like another $1.7 billion, right? It was 1.7 billion equity, but the guy's been pocketing 50 million plus year after year for a decade and a half.
So you fast forward 15, 20 years, he's making like 75 million a year in his pocket, just from the license agreements, right? Not including the equity value. So when he passed away, he gave the equity he had in his company to his wife, I think it was like another $1.7 billion, right? It was 1.7 billion equity, but the guy's been pocketing 50 million plus year after year for a decade and a half.
And I just love that idea. It's like, he saw what everybody else did. He's like, well, I can't make money like Bono. I can't make money like Bruce Springsteen. I can't make money like Rihanna. I can do it my way. There's like, the biggest thing is like, there's, it's not, it's never like what you do. It's how you do it.
And I just love that idea. It's like, he saw what everybody else did. He's like, well, I can't make money like Bono. I can't make money like Bruce Springsteen. I can't make money like Rihanna. I can do it my way. There's like, the biggest thing is like, there's, it's not, it's never like what you do. It's how you do it.
And I just love that idea. It's like, he saw what everybody else did. He's like, well, I can't make money like Bono. I can't make money like Bruce Springsteen. I can't make money like Rihanna. I can do it my way. There's like, the biggest thing is like, there's, it's not, it's never like what you do. It's how you do it.
Like you could find people that make a ton of money in music, ton of money in podcasting, ton of money in media, ton of money in clothing, ton of whatever it is. ton of money, realtors. There's like all these different ways to make money. It's like not what you do, it's how you do it.
Like you could find people that make a ton of money in music, ton of money in podcasting, ton of money in media, ton of money in clothing, ton of whatever it is. ton of money, realtors. There's like all these different ways to make money. It's like not what you do, it's how you do it.
Like you could find people that make a ton of money in music, ton of money in podcasting, ton of money in media, ton of money in clothing, ton of whatever it is. ton of money, realtors. There's like all these different ways to make money. It's like not what you do, it's how you do it.
And I'm fascinated by the people that are just like find their own weird route in and just, again, compound it for decades like he did. It's a fascinating story. And the idea of Phish, I read that blog post probably when you went to that fucking show, like 2005. We're talking about 20 years later. Are they still touring?
And I'm fascinated by the people that are just like find their own weird route in and just, again, compound it for decades like he did. It's a fascinating story. And the idea of Phish, I read that blog post probably when you went to that fucking show, like 2005. We're talking about 20 years later. Are they still touring?
And I'm fascinated by the people that are just like find their own weird route in and just, again, compound it for decades like he did. It's a fascinating story. And the idea of Phish, I read that blog post probably when you went to that fucking show, like 2005. We're talking about 20 years later. Are they still touring?
So like how much money have they made since then? They've probably been touring for what, 40 years? Yeah. I just watched the defiant ones, which is one of my, arguably my all time favorite documentary. And there's footage in there. I was thinking about this and I might do an episode of Bruce Springsteen because of that. And they're showing footage when he's 1975, he's doing born to run.
So like how much money have they made since then? They've probably been touring for what, 40 years? Yeah. I just watched the defiant ones, which is one of my, arguably my all time favorite documentary. And there's footage in there. I was thinking about this and I might do an episode of Bruce Springsteen because of that. And they're showing footage when he's 1975, he's doing born to run.
So like how much money have they made since then? They've probably been touring for what, 40 years? Yeah. I just watched the defiant ones, which is one of my, arguably my all time favorite documentary. And there's footage in there. I was thinking about this and I might do an episode of Bruce Springsteen because of that. And they're showing footage when he's 1975, he's doing born to run.
And he has this crazy work ethic that he's still known to this day. And I'm like, wait a minute, 75, like I'm bad at math, but that I think that's like 50 years ago. It's like the guy just sold 80,000 tickets in Italy, like a few weeks ago, a few months ago. It's incredible. It's incredible.
And he has this crazy work ethic that he's still known to this day. And I'm like, wait a minute, 75, like I'm bad at math, but that I think that's like 50 years ago. It's like the guy just sold 80,000 tickets in Italy, like a few weeks ago, a few months ago. It's incredible. It's incredible.
And he has this crazy work ethic that he's still known to this day. And I'm like, wait a minute, 75, like I'm bad at math, but that I think that's like 50 years ago. It's like the guy just sold 80,000 tickets in Italy, like a few weeks ago, a few months ago. It's incredible. It's incredible.
life yeah i mean they're not going to write they don't write biographies that people have balanced life so it's like there is a selection bias here so i can tell you like my stated preference and then if you look at like my revealed preference it's probably different so i would always said like in many cases the people i read about it's like cautionary tales because like exactly what you said they pursue professional achievement to the detriment of every single thing else health
life yeah i mean they're not going to write they don't write biographies that people have balanced life so it's like there is a selection bias here so i can tell you like my stated preference and then if you look at like my revealed preference it's probably different so i would always said like in many cases the people i read about it's like cautionary tales because like exactly what you said they pursue professional achievement to the detriment of every single thing else health
life yeah i mean they're not going to write they don't write biographies that people have balanced life so it's like there is a selection bias here so i can tell you like my stated preference and then if you look at like my revealed preference it's probably different so i would always said like in many cases the people i read about it's like cautionary tales because like exactly what you said they pursue professional achievement to the detriment of every single thing else health
family, spouses, kids, friendships, like it can get pretty crazy. And there's one guy named Ed Thorpe, it's episode 222 of Founders. And he's, to me, the one that came the closest to like master life. And I think the subtitle of that episode was like my personal blueprint. because he, first of all, lived a remarkable life. He's still alive to this day.
family, spouses, kids, friendships, like it can get pretty crazy. And there's one guy named Ed Thorpe, it's episode 222 of Founders. And he's, to me, the one that came the closest to like master life. And I think the subtitle of that episode was like my personal blueprint. because he, first of all, lived a remarkable life. He's still alive to this day.
family, spouses, kids, friendships, like it can get pretty crazy. And there's one guy named Ed Thorpe, it's episode 222 of Founders. And he's, to me, the one that came the closest to like master life. And I think the subtitle of that episode was like my personal blueprint. because he, first of all, lived a remarkable life. He's still alive to this day.
He's like 91 in phenomenal shape, still super intelligent. He started the first quantitative hedge fund, built the world's first wearable computer with Claude Shannon. You know, you ever play blackjack?
He's like 91 in phenomenal shape, still super intelligent. He started the first quantitative hedge fund, built the world's first wearable computer with Claude Shannon. You know, you ever play blackjack?
He's like 91 in phenomenal shape, still super intelligent. He started the first quantitative hedge fund, built the world's first wearable computer with Claude Shannon. You know, you ever play blackjack?
You know how counting cards works?
You know how counting cards works?
You know how counting cards works?
You've heard of it? That system was invented by Ed Thorpe in the 60s, and then he wrote a book about the system called Beat the Dealer. He sold millions of copies. He was the first LP in Citadel. A 19-year-old Ken Griffin comes to... Ed Dorp's house after Ed had closed his hedge fund, gives him all the files. It's like, this is what we were doing.
You've heard of it? That system was invented by Ed Thorpe in the 60s, and then he wrote a book about the system called Beat the Dealer. He sold millions of copies. He was the first LP in Citadel. A 19-year-old Ken Griffin comes to... Ed Dorp's house after Ed had closed his hedge fund, gives him all the files. It's like, this is what we were doing.
You've heard of it? That system was invented by Ed Thorpe in the 60s, and then he wrote a book about the system called Beat the Dealer. He sold millions of copies. He was the first LP in Citadel. A 19-year-old Ken Griffin comes to... Ed Dorp's house after Ed had closed his hedge fund, gives him all the files. It's like, this is what we were doing.
And then at the beginning of Citadel, Ken runs that playbook. Remarkable story. Uh, winds up having dinner, uh, with a 37 year old Warren Buffett. They walk outside the car. He tells his wife, Hey, I think that guy's going to be the richest person in the world. One day winds up starting to buy, acquire Berkshire Hathaway stock at like $600 a share or something back then. So like,
And then at the beginning of Citadel, Ken runs that playbook. Remarkable story. Uh, winds up having dinner, uh, with a 37 year old Warren Buffett. They walk outside the car. He tells his wife, Hey, I think that guy's going to be the richest person in the world. One day winds up starting to buy, acquire Berkshire Hathaway stock at like $600 a share or something back then. So like,
And then at the beginning of Citadel, Ken runs that playbook. Remarkable story. Uh, winds up having dinner, uh, with a 37 year old Warren Buffett. They walk outside the car. He tells his wife, Hey, I think that guy's going to be the richest person in the world. One day winds up starting to buy, acquire Berkshire Hathaway stock at like $600 a share or something back then. So like,
Phenomenal shape, great father. His kids still love him to this day. His wife passed away from cancer like 10 years ago. They were happily married forever. Once he had more money he could spend, he stopped trading money for time, even though he was really good at making money. He's like, what the hell am I going to do with it anyways?
Phenomenal shape, great father. His kids still love him to this day. His wife passed away from cancer like 10 years ago. They were happily married forever. Once he had more money he could spend, he stopped trading money for time, even though he was really good at making money. He's like, what the hell am I going to do with it anyways?
Phenomenal shape, great father. His kids still love him to this day. His wife passed away from cancer like 10 years ago. They were happily married forever. Once he had more money he could spend, he stopped trading money for time, even though he was really good at making money. He's like, what the hell am I going to do with it anyways?
Very rare to have like that pullback and that discipline to have it. So if you look at that, it's like he had a balance of work that just filled him like intellectually stimulating. He enjoyed it, made his unborn great grandkids rich. Phenomenal husband, phenomenal father, top 1% in physical shape, and also fucking had fun and lived an adventure.
Very rare to have like that pullback and that discipline to have it. So if you look at that, it's like he had a balance of work that just filled him like intellectually stimulating. He enjoyed it, made his unborn great grandkids rich. Phenomenal husband, phenomenal father, top 1% in physical shape, and also fucking had fun and lived an adventure.
Very rare to have like that pullback and that discipline to have it. So if you look at that, it's like he had a balance of work that just filled him like intellectually stimulating. He enjoyed it, made his unborn great grandkids rich. Phenomenal husband, phenomenal father, top 1% in physical shape, and also fucking had fun and lived an adventure.
In fact, Nassim Taleb wrote the foreword of that book. And they said that his autobiography reads like a thriller because it does. It's like that guy had a credible life story. So that is my stated preference. If you look at how I spend my time, it's like...
In fact, Nassim Taleb wrote the foreword of that book. And they said that his autobiography reads like a thriller because it does. It's like that guy had a credible life story. So that is my stated preference. If you look at how I spend my time, it's like...
In fact, Nassim Taleb wrote the foreword of that book. And they said that his autobiography reads like a thriller because it does. It's like that guy had a credible life story. So that is my stated preference. If you look at how I spend my time, it's like...
almost all on the podcast like my kids were just on uh winter break right and i was like oh they're not in school i'm gonna spend a ton of time with them and i got to last night was the last night of the break and i was like oh i fucked this up like i spent we went on walks took it to the park went out to eat did all this other stuff went to the beach but i did not
almost all on the podcast like my kids were just on uh winter break right and i was like oh they're not in school i'm gonna spend a ton of time with them and i got to last night was the last night of the break and i was like oh i fucked this up like i spent we went on walks took it to the park went out to eat did all this other stuff went to the beach but i did not
almost all on the podcast like my kids were just on uh winter break right and i was like oh they're not in school i'm gonna spend a ton of time with them and i got to last night was the last night of the break and i was like oh i fucked this up like i spent we went on walks took it to the park went out to eat did all this other stuff went to the beach but i did not
spend nearly it's been half the time i thought i was going to spend with them um so yeah i don't i just think there's a certain personality type that reappears over and over again and um and that personality type seems to like be fine they're they're addicted to what they do they love what they do and they have a hard time putting barriers on it um i just mentioned the defiant ones if you watch part four of the defiant ones um
spend nearly it's been half the time i thought i was going to spend with them um so yeah i don't i just think there's a certain personality type that reappears over and over again and um and that personality type seems to like be fine they're they're addicted to what they do they love what they do and they have a hard time putting barriers on it um i just mentioned the defiant ones if you watch part four of the defiant ones um
spend nearly it's been half the time i thought i was going to spend with them um so yeah i don't i just think there's a certain personality type that reappears over and over again and um and that personality type seems to like be fine they're they're addicted to what they do they love what they do and they have a hard time putting barriers on it um i just mentioned the defiant ones if you watch part four of the defiant ones um
Jimmy Iovine's wife and Dr. Dre's wife were like, it's really hard to be married to people like this. Jimmy was already divorced by the time the documentary ends. Dr. Dre's like, oh, you know, we're not, we kind of made it out. And then you find out the documentary ends and they get divorced a few years later.
Jimmy Iovine's wife and Dr. Dre's wife were like, it's really hard to be married to people like this. Jimmy was already divorced by the time the documentary ends. Dr. Dre's like, oh, you know, we're not, we kind of made it out. And then you find out the documentary ends and they get divorced a few years later.
Jimmy Iovine's wife and Dr. Dre's wife were like, it's really hard to be married to people like this. Jimmy was already divorced by the time the documentary ends. Dr. Dre's like, oh, you know, we're not, we kind of made it out. And then you find out the documentary ends and they get divorced a few years later.
So I, obviously there's no solution to this because every single person I study is smarter, more productive than me. And they didn't figure it out.
So I, obviously there's no solution to this because every single person I study is smarter, more productive than me. And they didn't figure it out.
So I, obviously there's no solution to this because every single person I study is smarter, more productive than me. And they didn't figure it out.
So, okay. For me, it's maddening repetition.
So, okay. For me, it's maddening repetition.
So, okay. For me, it's maddening repetition.
I got to go to Charlie Munger's house and have dinner with him before he died for three hours. Okay. Charlie is, like, I consider the wisest person I've ever come across. Like, and before I met him. And he's also the one that said you should read biographies. He's read hundreds of biographies. He's read more biographies than me. Now, I'll be able to catch him because he died. Right?
I got to go to Charlie Munger's house and have dinner with him before he died for three hours. Okay. Charlie is, like, I consider the wisest person I've ever come across. Like, and before I met him. And he's also the one that said you should read biographies. He's read hundreds of biographies. He's read more biographies than me. Now, I'll be able to catch him because he died. Right?
I got to go to Charlie Munger's house and have dinner with him before he died for three hours. Okay. Charlie is, like, I consider the wisest person I've ever come across. Like, and before I met him. And he's also the one that said you should read biographies. He's read hundreds of biographies. He's read more biographies than me. Now, I'll be able to catch him because he died. Right?
So, like, I will eventually pass him because I started earlier and I just had such a copy of him. But...
So, like, I will eventually pass him because I started earlier and I just had such a copy of him. But...
So, like, I will eventually pass him because I started earlier and I just had such a copy of him. But...
this is the scary thing about him because anybody at 99 is going to have some level of cognitive decline doesn't matter who the fuck you are right it's gonna be some level of cognitive decline i sat in his library so you start the first the night starts in his library for like the first hour and a half then we move to his dining room have dinner so first of all i'm sitting there and charlie was a legit hero of mine i read every single book about him i read all the books he told he said that he read
this is the scary thing about him because anybody at 99 is going to have some level of cognitive decline doesn't matter who the fuck you are right it's gonna be some level of cognitive decline i sat in his library so you start the first the night starts in his library for like the first hour and a half then we move to his dining room have dinner so first of all i'm sitting there and charlie was a legit hero of mine i read every single book about him i read all the books he told he said that he read
this is the scary thing about him because anybody at 99 is going to have some level of cognitive decline doesn't matter who the fuck you are right it's gonna be some level of cognitive decline i sat in his library so you start the first the night starts in his library for like the first hour and a half then we move to his dining room have dinner so first of all i'm sitting there and charlie was a legit hero of mine i read every single book about him i read all the books he told he said that he read
I watched all the AGM videos on YouTube and I'm sitting there in his library and I'm looking at it. I'm like, that's fucking Charlie Munger. Like I had an out-of-body experience. I was like, what is happening? How is this my life? I sat in a room by myself for years, reading books, talking into a microphone by myself. Somehow that got me invited here. This is bizarre.
I watched all the AGM videos on YouTube and I'm sitting there in his library and I'm looking at it. I'm like, that's fucking Charlie Munger. Like I had an out-of-body experience. I was like, what is happening? How is this my life? I sat in a room by myself for years, reading books, talking into a microphone by myself. Somehow that got me invited here. This is bizarre.
I watched all the AGM videos on YouTube and I'm sitting there in his library and I'm looking at it. I'm like, that's fucking Charlie Munger. Like I had an out-of-body experience. I was like, what is happening? How is this my life? I sat in a room by myself for years, reading books, talking into a microphone by myself. Somehow that got me invited here. This is bizarre.
And so my friend who invited me, Andrew Wilkinson, so this is going on. He had met him a bunch. Him and Chris had met him a bunch. And they're talking for like five or 10 minutes. I'm just like, what the fuck is going on? I could not believe this. And then Andrew looks at me. He's like, Like, jump in. Like, what are you doing? You've got to say something.
And so my friend who invited me, Andrew Wilkinson, so this is going on. He had met him a bunch. Him and Chris had met him a bunch. And they're talking for like five or 10 minutes. I'm just like, what the fuck is going on? I could not believe this. And then Andrew looks at me. He's like, Like, jump in. Like, what are you doing? You've got to say something.
And so my friend who invited me, Andrew Wilkinson, so this is going on. He had met him a bunch. Him and Chris had met him a bunch. And they're talking for like five or 10 minutes. I'm just like, what the fuck is going on? I could not believe this. And then Andrew looks at me. He's like, Like, jump in. Like, what are you doing? You've got to say something.
And then I snap out of it, and I look behind Charlie's head, and I see all these books that he had recommended that I read. So then I just started lighting them up with questions. One, that kind of freaked me out because Charlie was, like...
And then I snap out of it, and I look behind Charlie's head, and I see all these books that he had recommended that I read. So then I just started lighting them up with questions. One, that kind of freaked me out because Charlie was, like...
And then I snap out of it, and I look behind Charlie's head, and I see all these books that he had recommended that I read. So then I just started lighting them up with questions. One, that kind of freaked me out because Charlie was, like...
partially blind and so you know he's paying attention to you because he turns his head towards you and then he has to look through his bifocals so he goes like this and he's looking down at you so now you know there's no like you're not guessing who he's paying attention to and so then I'm like try the fucking mongers looking at me like what is happening here so I started lighting him up with questions on these books right
partially blind and so you know he's paying attention to you because he turns his head towards you and then he has to look through his bifocals so he goes like this and he's looking down at you so now you know there's no like you're not guessing who he's paying attention to and so then I'm like try the fucking mongers looking at me like what is happening here so I started lighting him up with questions on these books right
partially blind and so you know he's paying attention to you because he turns his head towards you and then he has to look through his bifocals so he goes like this and he's looking down at you so now you know there's no like you're not guessing who he's paying attention to and so then I'm like try the fucking mongers looking at me like what is happening here so I started lighting him up with questions on these books right
Dude, he knew everything. He could name the company, their partners, what their revenue was, what industry they were in. And I even asked him, I was like, dude, did you just reread this? He's like, no, I haven't read the book in 15 years. After we got done talking, I was like, Charlie, can I go through? I asked him, I was like, can I go through your library? He's like, yes. Very, very polite.
Dude, he knew everything. He could name the company, their partners, what their revenue was, what industry they were in. And I even asked him, I was like, dude, did you just reread this? He's like, no, I haven't read the book in 15 years. After we got done talking, I was like, Charlie, can I go through? I asked him, I was like, can I go through your library? He's like, yes. Very, very polite.
Dude, he knew everything. He could name the company, their partners, what their revenue was, what industry they were in. And I even asked him, I was like, dude, did you just reread this? He's like, no, I haven't read the book in 15 years. After we got done talking, I was like, Charlie, can I go through? I asked him, I was like, can I go through your library? He's like, yes. Very, very polite.
And he was very polite. So I pull books off the shelves. It gets even worse. There's no notes in them. So it's like every once, every like 150 pages, you'll see like some random like name written in pencil. But like I mark things up, I highlight them. I add them to a giant database. I reread them. Charlie had a remarkable memory. I don't, for me, it's all work.
And he was very polite. So I pull books off the shelves. It gets even worse. There's no notes in them. So it's like every once, every like 150 pages, you'll see like some random like name written in pencil. But like I mark things up, I highlight them. I add them to a giant database. I reread them. Charlie had a remarkable memory. I don't, for me, it's all work.
And he was very polite. So I pull books off the shelves. It gets even worse. There's no notes in them. So it's like every once, every like 150 pages, you'll see like some random like name written in pencil. But like I mark things up, I highlight them. I add them to a giant database. I reread them. Charlie had a remarkable memory. I don't, for me, it's all work.
It's like everything I'm telling you about is just like, I go back to the same episodes. I'll like re-listen to my old episodes again. I'll reread, I reread highlights. I reread highlights every single day. you know, for years, I'll like, I get bored and I get frustrated because I can't find any new podcasts to listen to. So I'll listen to old episodes of mine, like over and over again.
It's like everything I'm telling you about is just like, I go back to the same episodes. I'll like re-listen to my old episodes again. I'll reread, I reread highlights. I reread highlights every single day. you know, for years, I'll like, I get bored and I get frustrated because I can't find any new podcasts to listen to. So I'll listen to old episodes of mine, like over and over again.
It's like everything I'm telling you about is just like, I go back to the same episodes. I'll like re-listen to my old episodes again. I'll reread, I reread highlights. I reread highlights every single day. you know, for years, I'll like, I get bored and I get frustrated because I can't find any new podcasts to listen to. So I'll listen to old episodes of mine, like over and over again.
Like, oh shit, I did that four years ago. I forgot about that. I just did this with this guy named Chun Joong Young. And I spent like a few hours re-editing it. at the time I was recording like a shitty $100 microphone in like my kitchen. I didn't know anything. I did this episode probably five or six years ago. Now you can run it through Descript. They use their AI, their studio sound.
Like, oh shit, I did that four years ago. I forgot about that. I just did this with this guy named Chun Joong Young. And I spent like a few hours re-editing it. at the time I was recording like a shitty $100 microphone in like my kitchen. I didn't know anything. I did this episode probably five or six years ago. Now you can run it through Descript. They use their AI, their studio sound.
Like, oh shit, I did that four years ago. I forgot about that. I just did this with this guy named Chun Joong Young. And I spent like a few hours re-editing it. at the time I was recording like a shitty $100 microphone in like my kitchen. I didn't know anything. I did this episode probably five or six years ago. Now you can run it through Descript. They use their AI, their studio sound.
It sounds fucking perfect, right? And so- what I do. I spent like half of my day going back and rereading all my highlights from Chung Joon Young's autobiography. He's the founder of Hyundai. It's the most inspiring autobiography I've ever read. He grew up so poor he had to eat tree bark to survive. He dies the richest person in Korea. Fucking remarkable life story. But...
It sounds fucking perfect, right? And so- what I do. I spent like half of my day going back and rereading all my highlights from Chung Joon Young's autobiography. He's the founder of Hyundai. It's the most inspiring autobiography I've ever read. He grew up so poor he had to eat tree bark to survive. He dies the richest person in Korea. Fucking remarkable life story. But...
It sounds fucking perfect, right? And so- what I do. I spent like half of my day going back and rereading all my highlights from Chung Joon Young's autobiography. He's the founder of Hyundai. It's the most inspiring autobiography I've ever read. He grew up so poor he had to eat tree bark to survive. He dies the richest person in Korea. Fucking remarkable life story. But...
the reason I would be able to quote that even now is because I just finished rereading it and just finished re listening to it. So it's not like if it, well, you just said you have a good memory. You tell my wife that she'd be like, she'd laugh at you. She's like, no, he does. Like you missed my anniversary. No, it's just, it's just work.
the reason I would be able to quote that even now is because I just finished rereading it and just finished re listening to it. So it's not like if it, well, you just said you have a good memory. You tell my wife that she'd be like, she'd laugh at you. She's like, no, he does. Like you missed my anniversary. No, it's just, it's just work.
the reason I would be able to quote that even now is because I just finished rereading it and just finished re listening to it. So it's not like if it, well, you just said you have a good memory. You tell my wife that she'd be like, she'd laugh at you. She's like, no, he does. Like you missed my anniversary. No, it's just, it's just work.
And it's just, it's another idea I took from Charlie Munger where he's like, you need to find a simple idea and take it seriously. And he says, you can get outsized business success. He's like, many times in business we find that the winning system goes ridiculously far in maximizing or minimizing one or a handful of variables. And so my idea was like, once you start reading biographies,
And it's just, it's another idea I took from Charlie Munger where he's like, you need to find a simple idea and take it seriously. And he says, you can get outsized business success. He's like, many times in business we find that the winning system goes ridiculously far in maximizing or minimizing one or a handful of variables. And so my idea was like, once you start reading biographies,
And it's just, it's another idea I took from Charlie Munger where he's like, you need to find a simple idea and take it seriously. And he says, you can get outsized business success. He's like, many times in business we find that the winning system goes ridiculously far in maximizing or minimizing one or a handful of variables. And so my idea was like, once you start reading biographies,
From the very first biography I read for the podcast was Elon Musk. It's like, oh, all these guys read biographies. So that's an indication like Elon Musk, whether you hate him for his politics or anything else, seems like he's pretty fucking smart. And then you read Walt Disney. Walt Disney's reading biographies. Thomas Edison is reading every single biography in the Detroit library.
From the very first biography I read for the podcast was Elon Musk. It's like, oh, all these guys read biographies. So that's an indication like Elon Musk, whether you hate him for his politics or anything else, seems like he's pretty fucking smart. And then you read Walt Disney. Walt Disney's reading biographies. Thomas Edison is reading every single biography in the Detroit library.
From the very first biography I read for the podcast was Elon Musk. It's like, oh, all these guys read biographies. So that's an indication like Elon Musk, whether you hate him for his politics or anything else, seems like he's pretty fucking smart. And then you read Walt Disney. Walt Disney's reading biographies. Thomas Edison is reading every single biography in the Detroit library.
I'm not as smart as Thomas Edison. I'll just fucking copy what this guy does. And so then I was like, oh, so... All of History's Greatest Entrepreneurs studied History's Greatest Entrepreneurs.
I'm not as smart as Thomas Edison. I'll just fucking copy what this guy does. And so then I was like, oh, so... All of History's Greatest Entrepreneurs studied History's Greatest Entrepreneurs.
I'm not as smart as Thomas Edison. I'll just fucking copy what this guy does. And so then I was like, oh, so... All of History's Greatest Entrepreneurs studied History's Greatest Entrepreneurs.
What if I just build literally the world's best podcast that does that and then do it every single day, seven days a week for eight years and then just keep doing it and then keep making it better and better and better. I think I told you I'm doing this episode on Jensen Wong and one of his things that he told in a video is like, we have to do things that other people cannot do.
What if I just build literally the world's best podcast that does that and then do it every single day, seven days a week for eight years and then just keep doing it and then keep making it better and better and better. I think I told you I'm doing this episode on Jensen Wong and one of his things that he told in a video is like, we have to do things that other people cannot do.
What if I just build literally the world's best podcast that does that and then do it every single day, seven days a week for eight years and then just keep doing it and then keep making it better and better and better. I think I told you I'm doing this episode on Jensen Wong and one of his things that he told in a video is like, we have to do things that other people cannot do.
And so my version of a moat, right? Which another idea, I don't have any original ideas. I just, like copy what I find in the books. So Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger says, your company should have a moat. I'm like, okay, the podcast is a podcast, but it's also a business and my life works. Like what's my moat?
And so my version of a moat, right? Which another idea, I don't have any original ideas. I just, like copy what I find in the books. So Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger says, your company should have a moat. I'm like, okay, the podcast is a podcast, but it's also a business and my life works. Like what's my moat?
And so my version of a moat, right? Which another idea, I don't have any original ideas. I just, like copy what I find in the books. So Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger says, your company should have a moat. I'm like, okay, the podcast is a podcast, but it's also a business and my life works. Like what's my moat?
My moat's like every single episode you listen to today, it's not like the Jensen Wong episode I'm recording this week. It's not just gonna be about Jensen. It's gonna be how Jensen was like Steve Jobs, how he was like Edmund Land, how he was like Alexander Graham Bell, how he was like Ed Thorpe, all these other people.
My moat's like every single episode you listen to today, it's not like the Jensen Wong episode I'm recording this week. It's not just gonna be about Jensen. It's gonna be how Jensen was like Steve Jobs, how he was like Edmund Land, how he was like Alexander Graham Bell, how he was like Ed Thorpe, all these other people.
My moat's like every single episode you listen to today, it's not like the Jensen Wong episode I'm recording this week. It's not just gonna be about Jensen. It's gonna be how Jensen was like Steve Jobs, how he was like Edmund Land, how he was like Alexander Graham Bell, how he was like Ed Thorpe, all these other people.
So to catch, to be able to compete with me, you have to read 375 books to get to where I am now. but I'm not going to stop. So in my opinion, it's like the game's already over. As long as I don't stop, I just, I have to make sure that what I like, what I thought of, and I probably figured this out a few years ago.
So to catch, to be able to compete with me, you have to read 375 books to get to where I am now. but I'm not going to stop. So in my opinion, it's like the game's already over. As long as I don't stop, I just, I have to make sure that what I like, what I thought of, and I probably figured this out a few years ago.
So to catch, to be able to compete with me, you have to read 375 books to get to where I am now. but I'm not going to stop. So in my opinion, it's like the game's already over. As long as I don't stop, I just, I have to make sure that what I like, what I thought of, and I probably figured this out a few years ago.
It's like, I'm just going to like, I'm going to have a really, really small, but valuable niche. And that's, if you want to learn from history, then you're going to go to this podcast. Anybody does anything else outside of that, none of my business. You jump in here, I'm going to compete very ferociously with you. And I'm going to beat you to death because I take this very fucking seriously.
It's like, I'm just going to like, I'm going to have a really, really small, but valuable niche. And that's, if you want to learn from history, then you're going to go to this podcast. Anybody does anything else outside of that, none of my business. You jump in here, I'm going to compete very ferociously with you. And I'm going to beat you to death because I take this very fucking seriously.
It's like, I'm just going to like, I'm going to have a really, really small, but valuable niche. And that's, if you want to learn from history, then you're going to go to this podcast. Anybody does anything else outside of that, none of my business. You jump in here, I'm going to compete very ferociously with you. And I'm going to beat you to death because I take this very fucking seriously.
so this is another idea that i didn't even that wasn't even mine really um so i've become friends with jared kushner through the podcast and he's a very sharp and fascinating guy i highly recommend listening to the episode he did with lex friedman and once he just did with my friend patrick shaughnessy and really his idea was just like you have one of the world's most valuable audiences he's like i know all the elite people in the world they're all listening to you uh you're the best in the world at what you do he's like his whole thing and the
so this is another idea that i didn't even that wasn't even mine really um so i've become friends with jared kushner through the podcast and he's a very sharp and fascinating guy i highly recommend listening to the episode he did with lex friedman and once he just did with my friend patrick shaughnessy and really his idea was just like you have one of the world's most valuable audiences he's like i know all the elite people in the world they're all listening to you uh you're the best in the world at what you do he's like his whole thing and the
so this is another idea that i didn't even that wasn't even mine really um so i've become friends with jared kushner through the podcast and he's a very sharp and fascinating guy i highly recommend listening to the episode he did with lex friedman and once he just did with my friend patrick shaughnessy and really his idea was just like you have one of the world's most valuable audiences he's like i know all the elite people in the world they're all listening to you uh you're the best in the world at what you do he's like his whole thing and the
that he's constantly reinforcing. He's like constant refinement of association, constant refinement of association. And he's like inventory destroys value. So just getting in front of the audience you have is excessively valuable to any company. He's like, so take your time picking partners. And then when you do pick partners, you know, this is what you do. You have...
that he's constantly reinforcing. He's like constant refinement of association, constant refinement of association. And he's like inventory destroys value. So just getting in front of the audience you have is excessively valuable to any company. He's like, so take your time picking partners. And then when you do pick partners, you know, this is what you do. You have...
that he's constantly reinforcing. He's like constant refinement of association, constant refinement of association. And he's like inventory destroys value. So just getting in front of the audience you have is excessively valuable to any company. He's like, so take your time picking partners. And then when you do pick partners, you know, this is what you do. You have...
two long-term partners, you're on two-year contracts with them, right? It's finite. It's like, I just did this with RAMP. So I got to know the founders of Ramp. I think they are the best in the category. I spent a ton of time with them. Two of them are in Miami. So I'm with them a couple of times a week. And I have been for a long time, way before we considered working together.
two long-term partners, you're on two-year contracts with them, right? It's finite. It's like, I just did this with RAMP. So I got to know the founders of Ramp. I think they are the best in the category. I spent a ton of time with them. Two of them are in Miami. So I'm with them a couple of times a week. And I have been for a long time, way before we considered working together.
two long-term partners, you're on two-year contracts with them, right? It's finite. It's like, I just did this with RAMP. So I got to know the founders of Ramp. I think they are the best in the category. I spent a ton of time with them. Two of them are in Miami. So I'm with them a couple of times a week. And I have been for a long time, way before we considered working together.
And I was like, these guys are fucking geniuses. I think they have the best technical talent in their industry by far. And I think the technical talent is just going to win. Like the gap between them and everybody else is just going to keep expanding because of that.
And I was like, these guys are fucking geniuses. I think they have the best technical talent in their industry by far. And I think the technical talent is just going to win. Like the gap between them and everybody else is just going to keep expanding because of that.
And I was like, these guys are fucking geniuses. I think they have the best technical talent in their industry by far. And I think the technical talent is just going to win. Like the gap between them and everybody else is just going to keep expanding because of that.
Um, and so like you just do large instead of selling like most people sell on like a cpm basis We were talking about that right before we got here or right before we started recording. There is no cpm It's just like you know who's in the audience Uh one of the founders how this deal came about or this partnership came about It's because one of the founders was talking to me one day.
Um, and so like you just do large instead of selling like most people sell on like a cpm basis We were talking about that right before we got here or right before we started recording. There is no cpm It's just like you know who's in the audience Uh one of the founders how this deal came about or this partnership came about It's because one of the founders was talking to me one day.
Um, and so like you just do large instead of selling like most people sell on like a cpm basis We were talking about that right before we got here or right before we started recording. There is no cpm It's just like you know who's in the audience Uh one of the founders how this deal came about or this partnership came about It's because one of the founders was talking to me one day.
He's like I know 10 to 15 billionaires personally That listen to your podcast He's like, this is not normal at all. He's like, what's the chance? I know all the billionaires that are in your audience, like fucking zero. That is just impossible. You know how, what is their hourly, what is the hourly, what is an hour of their time worth, right? What would people pay to get an hour of their time?
He's like I know 10 to 15 billionaires personally That listen to your podcast He's like, this is not normal at all. He's like, what's the chance? I know all the billionaires that are in your audience, like fucking zero. That is just impossible. You know how, what is their hourly, what is the hourly, what is an hour of their time worth, right? What would people pay to get an hour of their time?
He's like I know 10 to 15 billionaires personally That listen to your podcast He's like, this is not normal at all. He's like, what's the chance? I know all the billionaires that are in your audience, like fucking zero. That is just impossible. You know how, what is their hourly, what is the hourly, what is an hour of their time worth, right? What would people pay to get an hour of their time?
And they give it to you for free. Like that is very unusual.
And they give it to you for free. Like that is very unusual.
And they give it to you for free. Like that is very unusual.
And then you become friends with them, which is even wilder. But the idea was, hey, essentially, you know, most, let's back up. Business podcasts, it's like bizarre world. It does not, you can't think of it as like a normal podcast. So let me explain how normal podcasts work. operate, you know, you'll have a ton of ad partners. Hopefully you're vetting them and you're not just like taking anybody.
And then you become friends with them, which is even wilder. But the idea was, hey, essentially, you know, most, let's back up. Business podcasts, it's like bizarre world. It does not, you can't think of it as like a normal podcast. So let me explain how normal podcasts work. operate, you know, you'll have a ton of ad partners. Hopefully you're vetting them and you're not just like taking anybody.
And then you become friends with them, which is even wilder. But the idea was, hey, essentially, you know, most, let's back up. Business podcasts, it's like bizarre world. It does not, you can't think of it as like a normal podcast. So let me explain how normal podcasts work. operate, you know, you'll have a ton of ad partners. Hopefully you're vetting them and you're not just like taking anybody.
Right. But even like if you're heavily vetted, like human lab guys, they have eight to 10 advertising partners on a yearly basis. They have over a hundred on their waiting list. Right. They vet the hell out of them. and they'll like rotate who's in the podcast. And usually sold on like some kind of CPM basis. Now Huberman's like the male Oprah.
Right. But even like if you're heavily vetted, like human lab guys, they have eight to 10 advertising partners on a yearly basis. They have over a hundred on their waiting list. Right. They vet the hell out of them. and they'll like rotate who's in the podcast. And usually sold on like some kind of CPM basis. Now Huberman's like the male Oprah.
Right. But even like if you're heavily vetted, like human lab guys, they have eight to 10 advertising partners on a yearly basis. They have over a hundred on their waiting list. Right. They vet the hell out of them. and they'll like rotate who's in the podcast. And usually sold on like some kind of CPM basis. Now Huberman's like the male Oprah.
So like, you're gonna pay a higher CPM because he's gonna, if he says he uses your product, his people will buy the product. I know how much he like, he can move vast amounts of products. That's why he has a huge waiting list. I'm not, I don't want, one, I work by myself. I don't have an assistant. I don't have a researcher. I don't have anybody. It's just me.
So like, you're gonna pay a higher CPM because he's gonna, if he says he uses your product, his people will buy the product. I know how much he like, he can move vast amounts of products. That's why he has a huge waiting list. I'm not, I don't want, one, I work by myself. I don't have an assistant. I don't have a researcher. I don't have anybody. It's just me.
So like, you're gonna pay a higher CPM because he's gonna, if he says he uses your product, his people will buy the product. I know how much he like, he can move vast amounts of products. That's why he has a huge waiting list. I'm not, I don't want, one, I work by myself. I don't have an assistant. I don't have a researcher. I don't have anybody. It's just me.
And so therefore, like any time taken, like for me to do ad sales takes time away from making the podcast. I have to be very careful to take time away from making the podcast. So Jared's idea of, hey, just grab, you know, you have dozens of people that want to advertise in your podcast.
And so therefore, like any time taken, like for me to do ad sales takes time away from making the podcast. I have to be very careful to take time away from making the podcast. So Jared's idea of, hey, just grab, you know, you have dozens of people that want to advertise in your podcast.
And so therefore, like any time taken, like for me to do ad sales takes time away from making the podcast. I have to be very careful to take time away from making the podcast. So Jared's idea of, hey, just grab, you know, you have dozens of people that want to advertise in your podcast.
pick the two best ones that you feel most comfortable with, the most, like that makes most sense for your audience. Like RAMP is a perfect example. It's like, what does RAMP do? RAMP, like it's cost control.
pick the two best ones that you feel most comfortable with, the most, like that makes most sense for your audience. Like RAMP is a perfect example. It's like, what does RAMP do? RAMP, like it's cost control.
pick the two best ones that you feel most comfortable with, the most, like that makes most sense for your audience. Like RAMP is a perfect example. It's like, what does RAMP do? RAMP, like it's cost control.
The biggest, the idea, the difference between the people I said in the podcast with like how most entrepreneurs are taught today, it's like every single great entrepreneur is obsessed with controlling costs. And they have been for hundreds of years. So it's like perfect partnership there. And so the idea is like you pick,
The biggest, the idea, the difference between the people I said in the podcast with like how most entrepreneurs are taught today, it's like every single great entrepreneur is obsessed with controlling costs. And they have been for hundreds of years. So it's like perfect partnership there. And so the idea is like you pick,
The biggest, the idea, the difference between the people I said in the podcast with like how most entrepreneurs are taught today, it's like every single great entrepreneur is obsessed with controlling costs. And they have been for hundreds of years. So it's like perfect partnership there. And so the idea is like you pick,
You have like two of those long-term partnerships and you can add in a couple other ones to experiment or if you want to do that. And then you just go to them month 12, you start developing relationships with other people. You take it real slow. You vet their product. You build relationship with them. Like I have people that want to advertise on the podcast. Like I don't know the founder.
You have like two of those long-term partnerships and you can add in a couple other ones to experiment or if you want to do that. And then you just go to them month 12, you start developing relationships with other people. You take it real slow. You vet their product. You build relationship with them. Like I have people that want to advertise on the podcast. Like I don't know the founder.
You have like two of those long-term partnerships and you can add in a couple other ones to experiment or if you want to do that. And then you just go to them month 12, you start developing relationships with other people. You take it real slow. You vet their product. You build relationship with them. Like I have people that want to advertise on the podcast. Like I don't know the founder.
I will never advertise anything where I haven't talked to. I have to, I have to build a relationship with the founder. Like the podcast is called founders for God's sake. And so you start building relationships and you go to your existing partners six months before your contract expires and say, hey, I have X, Y, Z. This is what they're interested in.
I will never advertise anything where I haven't talked to. I have to, I have to build a relationship with the founder. Like the podcast is called founders for God's sake. And so you start building relationships and you go to your existing partners six months before your contract expires and say, hey, I have X, Y, Z. This is what they're interested in.
I will never advertise anything where I haven't talked to. I have to, I have to build a relationship with the founder. Like the podcast is called founders for God's sake. And so you start building relationships and you go to your existing partners six months before your contract expires and say, hey, I have X, Y, Z. This is what they're interested in.
Do you want, like, do you want to continue the partnership? Do you want to modify it? What do you want to do? But essentially just like you pick, I think of them much more as like brand partnerships, like the way like Nike would be with like Tiger Woods. And I think that's going to be very, way more common than even podcast ads on normal podcasts.
Do you want, like, do you want to continue the partnership? Do you want to modify it? What do you want to do? But essentially just like you pick, I think of them much more as like brand partnerships, like the way like Nike would be with like Tiger Woods. And I think that's going to be very, way more common than even podcast ads on normal podcasts.
Do you want, like, do you want to continue the partnership? Do you want to modify it? What do you want to do? But essentially just like you pick, I think of them much more as like brand partnerships, like the way like Nike would be with like Tiger Woods. And I think that's going to be very, way more common than even podcast ads on normal podcasts.
I talked to a bunch of the biggest podcast advertisers in the world and become friends with the founders of these companies. And so, cause I want like a God level view of the entire industry. And they were even saying like for a lot of the early days of the podcast, it's like a lot of direct response.
I talked to a bunch of the biggest podcast advertisers in the world and become friends with the founders of these companies. And so, cause I want like a God level view of the entire industry. And they were even saying like for a lot of the early days of the podcast, it's like a lot of direct response.
I talked to a bunch of the biggest podcast advertisers in the world and become friends with the founders of these companies. And so, cause I want like a God level view of the entire industry. And they were even saying like for a lot of the early days of the podcast, it's like a lot of direct response.
And I think one, a lot of the direct response advertisers, they've noticed the efficacy of podcast ads because they're saturating the whole ecosystem has greatly declined. And a lot of podcasters are, I think you're just going to see a lot more brand advertising in general. And so that's what I'm much more interested. It's much more like a partnership. We do events together.
And I think one, a lot of the direct response advertisers, they've noticed the efficacy of podcast ads because they're saturating the whole ecosystem has greatly declined. And a lot of podcasters are, I think you're just going to see a lot more brand advertising in general. And so that's what I'm much more interested. It's much more like a partnership. We do events together.
And I think one, a lot of the direct response advertisers, they've noticed the efficacy of podcast ads because they're saturating the whole ecosystem has greatly declined. And a lot of podcasters are, I think you're just going to see a lot more brand advertising in general. And so that's what I'm much more interested. It's much more like a partnership. We do events together.
I consult, I advise on marketing. I help them. place ads on other podcasts. Like it's much more of like, you're getting me on the team and everybody in my network is like, I will try to help you as much as I can.
I consult, I advise on marketing. I help them. place ads on other podcasts. Like it's much more of like, you're getting me on the team and everybody in my network is like, I will try to help you as much as I can.
I consult, I advise on marketing. I help them. place ads on other podcasts. Like it's much more of like, you're getting me on the team and everybody in my network is like, I will try to help you as much as I can.
What are you interested in?
What are you interested in?
What are you interested in?
The easiest way to get started is like, who do you most admire? When I say, who do you most admire? Give me a list of three or four names that come to mind right away. Living or dead?
The easiest way to get started is like, who do you most admire? When I say, who do you most admire? Give me a list of three or four names that come to mind right away. Living or dead?
The easiest way to get started is like, who do you most admire? When I say, who do you most admire? Give me a list of three or four names that come to mind right away. Living or dead?
You can't give a fuck what anybody else says.
You can't give a fuck what anybody else says.
You can't give a fuck what anybody else says.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I just talked to Josh like last week and he listens to Founders a lot. He told me he finds it very comforting because he's a very, very, very unbelievably polite. If you do any kind of reference check on him, it's like, it's not an act. It's like, he's like old school polite, but he's also a grinder, which I love and just completely obsessed with every single aspect of his business.
So I just talked to Josh like last week and he listens to Founders a lot. He told me he finds it very comforting because he's a very, very, very unbelievably polite. If you do any kind of reference check on him, it's like, it's not an act. It's like, he's like old school polite, but he's also a grinder, which I love and just completely obsessed with every single aspect of his business.
So I just talked to Josh like last week and he listens to Founders a lot. He told me he finds it very comforting because he's a very, very, very unbelievably polite. If you do any kind of reference check on him, it's like, it's not an act. It's like, he's like old school polite, but he's also a grinder, which I love and just completely obsessed with every single aspect of his business.
And what he said about listening to Founders is that, it's comforting to realize that he's not the only one. They're all like this. If you want to be great, they're all very similar. What I would say is like, so Zuckerberg right there, I'll give you a book recommendation. When he was, before he started Facebook, he's at Harvard.
And what he said about listening to Founders is that, it's comforting to realize that he's not the only one. They're all like this. If you want to be great, they're all very similar. What I would say is like, so Zuckerberg right there, I'll give you a book recommendation. When he was, before he started Facebook, he's at Harvard.
And what he said about listening to Founders is that, it's comforting to realize that he's not the only one. They're all like this. If you want to be great, they're all very similar. What I would say is like, so Zuckerberg right there, I'll give you a book recommendation. When he was, before he started Facebook, he's at Harvard.
He goes and watches Bill Gates speak because he looked up to Bill Gates. So read Hard Drive. Have you read Hard Drive? Bill Gates and the Making of the Microsoft Empire. One of the best fucking books. I've read it twice. I have two episodes on it. This is how I know my memory's not that great. I don't remember the episode number on the last one. Just search.
He goes and watches Bill Gates speak because he looked up to Bill Gates. So read Hard Drive. Have you read Hard Drive? Bill Gates and the Making of the Microsoft Empire. One of the best fucking books. I've read it twice. I have two episodes on it. This is how I know my memory's not that great. I don't remember the episode number on the last one. Just search.
He goes and watches Bill Gates speak because he looked up to Bill Gates. So read Hard Drive. Have you read Hard Drive? Bill Gates and the Making of the Microsoft Empire. One of the best fucking books. I've read it twice. I have two episodes on it. This is how I know my memory's not that great. I don't remember the episode number on the last one. Just search.
And if you search in Founders, always listen to the second episode I did on them because I get a lot better with time. But there's the first one, read hard drive. It's one of the best biographies I've ever read. It covers the first 35 years of Bill Gates' life up until the IPO of Microsoft and right after. And there's crazy fucking stats in that book.
And if you search in Founders, always listen to the second episode I did on them because I get a lot better with time. But there's the first one, read hard drive. It's one of the best biographies I've ever read. It covers the first 35 years of Bill Gates' life up until the IPO of Microsoft and right after. And there's crazy fucking stats in that book.
And if you search in Founders, always listen to the second episode I did on them because I get a lot better with time. But there's the first one, read hard drive. It's one of the best biographies I've ever read. It covers the first 35 years of Bill Gates' life up until the IPO of Microsoft and right after. And there's crazy fucking stats in that book.
Like for example, Microsoft's the first software business in history to sell more than a billion dollars of software. Might've been the first pure software company in history. The first 30, this is why I always bitch and yell at my founder friends because they hire all these fucking people that are not doing actual work.
Like for example, Microsoft's the first software business in history to sell more than a billion dollars of software. Might've been the first pure software company in history. The first 30, this is why I always bitch and yell at my founder friends because they hire all these fucking people that are not doing actual work.
Like for example, Microsoft's the first software business in history to sell more than a billion dollars of software. Might've been the first pure software company in history. The first 30, this is why I always bitch and yell at my founder friends because they hire all these fucking people that are not doing actual work.
I go, dude, I just had a walk with a friend of mine in Miami Beach because he's like raising all this money. I said, no, no, you sell before you have a product. He goes, what are you talking about? I go, Bill Gates sold before he had a product. Steve Jobs sold before he had a product. Larry Ellison sold before he had a product. Do you need three other examples besides that?
I go, dude, I just had a walk with a friend of mine in Miami Beach because he's like raising all this money. I said, no, no, you sell before you have a product. He goes, what are you talking about? I go, Bill Gates sold before he had a product. Steve Jobs sold before he had a product. Larry Ellison sold before he had a product. Do you need three other examples besides that?
I go, dude, I just had a walk with a friend of mine in Miami Beach because he's like raising all this money. I said, no, no, you sell before you have a product. He goes, what are you talking about? I go, Bill Gates sold before he had a product. Steve Jobs sold before he had a product. Larry Ellison sold before he had a product. Do you need three other examples besides that?
The first 30 employees of Microsoft, 28 programmers sold. Bill Gates, secretary and assistant, and Bill Gates. And Bill was doing all the sales. It was all founder-led sales. They were unbelievably profitable. That is the biggest bootstrap business of all time. It fucking drives me insane. We're like, oh, they raised VC. The year before they went public, which was maybe 1976.
The first 30 employees of Microsoft, 28 programmers sold. Bill Gates, secretary and assistant, and Bill Gates. And Bill was doing all the sales. It was all founder-led sales. They were unbelievably profitable. That is the biggest bootstrap business of all time. It fucking drives me insane. We're like, oh, they raised VC. The year before they went public, which was maybe 1976.
The first 30 employees of Microsoft, 28 programmers sold. Bill Gates, secretary and assistant, and Bill Gates. And Bill was doing all the sales. It was all founder-led sales. They were unbelievably profitable. That is the biggest bootstrap business of all time. It fucking drives me insane. We're like, oh, they raised VC. The year before they went public, which was maybe 1976.
Can you double check to see if I'm right about this? They were doing 140 million a year in revenue and 39 million a year profit. They sold a million shares for $995,000 a couple months before the IPO. That's a fucking venture-backed, that's not a venture-backed company. They wanted the guy's expertise and they wanted to incentivize him for that. 1976, boom. 1986, yeah, there you go.
Can you double check to see if I'm right about this? They were doing 140 million a year in revenue and 39 million a year profit. They sold a million shares for $995,000 a couple months before the IPO. That's a fucking venture-backed, that's not a venture-backed company. They wanted the guy's expertise and they wanted to incentivize him for that. 1976, boom. 1986, yeah, there you go.
Can you double check to see if I'm right about this? They were doing 140 million a year in revenue and 39 million a year profit. They sold a million shares for $995,000 a couple months before the IPO. That's a fucking venture-backed, that's not a venture-backed company. They wanted the guy's expertise and they wanted to incentivize him for that. 1976, boom. 1986, yeah, there you go.
They started in 1976. Sorry about that. Apple, I think, was founded the same year. So there's your first biography to read. Jared Kushner, read his fucking book, Breaking History. It's incredible. The life experiences that the guy has had. And then he will talk about reading The Art of War. He'll talk about reading Theodore Roosevelt. Every single book, books are made out of books, right?
They started in 1976. Sorry about that. Apple, I think, was founded the same year. So there's your first biography to read. Jared Kushner, read his fucking book, Breaking History. It's incredible. The life experiences that the guy has had. And then he will talk about reading The Art of War. He'll talk about reading Theodore Roosevelt. Every single book, books are made out of books, right?
They started in 1976. Sorry about that. Apple, I think, was founded the same year. So there's your first biography to read. Jared Kushner, read his fucking book, Breaking History. It's incredible. The life experiences that the guy has had. And then he will talk about reading The Art of War. He'll talk about reading Theodore Roosevelt. Every single book, books are made out of books, right?
They will lead you You just name three people you're interested in, you probably have fucking 10 more. Pick up one of the books, the biography of them or a book they recommend. And then in that book, they will then recommend other biographies of the person or other people they admire. And so what I'll do is I'll map out every single person. Like I became interested in Charlie Munger.
They will lead you You just name three people you're interested in, you probably have fucking 10 more. Pick up one of the books, the biography of them or a book they recommend. And then in that book, they will then recommend other biographies of the person or other people they admire. And so what I'll do is I'll map out every single person. Like I became interested in Charlie Munger.
They will lead you You just name three people you're interested in, you probably have fucking 10 more. Pick up one of the books, the biography of them or a book they recommend. And then in that book, they will then recommend other biographies of the person or other people they admire. And so what I'll do is I'll map out every single person. Like I became interested in Charlie Munger.
So I go and read everything on Charlie Munger, but then I also read everything that he read. And then what you do is you go and you go in the bibliography of the books and then you'll discover, like there's a Bill Gates biography, Right. In that biography, there'll be other biographies of Bill Gates or important people in there.
So I go and read everything on Charlie Munger, but then I also read everything that he read. And then what you do is you go and you go in the bibliography of the books and then you'll discover, like there's a Bill Gates biography, Right. In that biography, there'll be other biographies of Bill Gates or important people in there.
So I go and read everything on Charlie Munger, but then I also read everything that he read. And then what you do is you go and you go in the bibliography of the books and then you'll discover, like there's a Bill Gates biography, Right. In that biography, there'll be other biographies of Bill Gates or important people in there.
And then you go and get that book and you just go on and on and on and on. You take it very seriously. You start mapping this out and you have a very fun. You can read, you know, five books on a person and maybe another five books on people they admire. And you have a good idea of how they think. And that's really what I'm trying to go after.
And then you go and get that book and you just go on and on and on and on. You take it very seriously. You start mapping this out and you have a very fun. You can read, you know, five books on a person and maybe another five books on people they admire. And you have a good idea of how they think. And that's really what I'm trying to go after.
And then you go and get that book and you just go on and on and on and on. You take it very seriously. You start mapping this out and you have a very fun. You can read, you know, five books on a person and maybe another five books on people they admire. And you have a good idea of how they think. And that's really what I'm trying to go after.
It's like in many cases, like what would Munger do like in my situation? And it's very simple. It's like, what do you intentionally, I've mentioned it multiple times. What are you intentionally interested in? Do that for work. Find a simple idea and take it seriously. Just all kinds of ideas, maximize, minimize, or go out of your way to minimize or maximize one or a handful of variables.
It's like in many cases, like what would Munger do like in my situation? And it's very simple. It's like, what do you intentionally, I've mentioned it multiple times. What are you intentionally interested in? Do that for work. Find a simple idea and take it seriously. Just all kinds of ideas, maximize, minimize, or go out of your way to minimize or maximize one or a handful of variables.
It's like in many cases, like what would Munger do like in my situation? And it's very simple. It's like, what do you intentionally, I've mentioned it multiple times. What are you intentionally interested in? Do that for work. Find a simple idea and take it seriously. Just all kinds of ideas, maximize, minimize, or go out of your way to minimize or maximize one or a handful of variables.
This is the other, you mentioned the business model of founders too. It's like, I didn't know shit about shit when it comes to finance. And so now what do you have? You have a business that has cash flow, right? What are you going to do with the money? And so now I literally get to have access to some of the greatest financial minds. I'm like, what would you do? They become friends.
This is the other, you mentioned the business model of founders too. It's like, I didn't know shit about shit when it comes to finance. And so now what do you have? You have a business that has cash flow, right? What are you going to do with the money? And so now I literally get to have access to some of the greatest financial minds. I'm like, what would you do? They become friends.
This is the other, you mentioned the business model of founders too. It's like, I didn't know shit about shit when it comes to finance. And so now what do you have? You have a business that has cash flow, right? What are you going to do with the money? And so now I literally get to have access to some of the greatest financial minds. I'm like, what would you do? They become friends.
And then, so another extension of this weird business is like, they say, hey, you should look at this investment or you should look at this or you should do that. It's like, now I have another form of education where it's like, I don't know any of this.
And then, so another extension of this weird business is like, they say, hey, you should look at this investment or you should look at this or you should do that. It's like, now I have another form of education where it's like, I don't know any of this.
And then, so another extension of this weird business is like, they say, hey, you should look at this investment or you should look at this or you should do that. It's like, now I have another form of education where it's like, I don't know any of this.
other than like and i've been interested like the episode i just put out on heady green she was the single biggest individual financier in the world when she was alive she she was so rich she bailed out the city of new york herself she ran her own money like how did she do that what did she invest in what advice did she have i'm very interested in learning how to do this because it's such you can have like a one-man berkshire hathaway but founders it starts with founders like okay then what do you do now
other than like and i've been interested like the episode i just put out on heady green she was the single biggest individual financier in the world when she was alive she she was so rich she bailed out the city of new york herself she ran her own money like how did she do that what did she invest in what advice did she have i'm very interested in learning how to do this because it's such you can have like a one-man berkshire hathaway but founders it starts with founders like okay then what do you do now
other than like and i've been interested like the episode i just put out on heady green she was the single biggest individual financier in the world when she was alive she she was so rich she bailed out the city of new york herself she ran her own money like how did she do that what did she invest in what advice did she have i'm very interested in learning how to do this because it's such you can have like a one-man berkshire hathaway but founders it starts with founders like okay then what do you do now
And then you have this unfair advantage. Then you start building relationships with the founders that listen to your podcast. And a lot of them want you involved where they don't even want your money. They just start giving you stock.
And then you have this unfair advantage. Then you start building relationships with the founders that listen to your podcast. And a lot of them want you involved where they don't even want your money. They just start giving you stock.
And then you have this unfair advantage. Then you start building relationships with the founders that listen to your podcast. And a lot of them want you involved where they don't even want your money. They just start giving you stock.
No, he would tell you to learn exactly what he would, I think I would do, I'm doing what he did, which is he didn't know anything about investing. He was an attorney. So they set aside a certain amount of his time a day. At that time, I think it was the first hour of every day. He sold back to himself to learn real estate investing and then investing in stock.
No, he would tell you to learn exactly what he would, I think I would do, I'm doing what he did, which is he didn't know anything about investing. He was an attorney. So they set aside a certain amount of his time a day. At that time, I think it was the first hour of every day. He sold back to himself to learn real estate investing and then investing in stock.
No, he would tell you to learn exactly what he would, I think I would do, I'm doing what he did, which is he didn't know anything about investing. He was an attorney. So they set aside a certain amount of his time a day. At that time, I think it was the first hour of every day. He sold back to himself to learn real estate investing and then investing in stock.
And then he winds up becoming friends with all the people, like Buffett and all the other people. It wasn't just Buffett though. I talked to Charlie about this at his house. Because his whole point was the book I gave him, I was able to give him a book because he has two busts in his house. It's Lee Kuan Yew and Ben Franklin.
And then he winds up becoming friends with all the people, like Buffett and all the other people. It wasn't just Buffett though. I talked to Charlie about this at his house. Because his whole point was the book I gave him, I was able to give him a book because he has two busts in his house. It's Lee Kuan Yew and Ben Franklin.
And then he winds up becoming friends with all the people, like Buffett and all the other people. It wasn't just Buffett though. I talked to Charlie about this at his house. Because his whole point was the book I gave him, I was able to give him a book because he has two busts in his house. It's Lee Kuan Yew and Ben Franklin.
And if you go to Charlie Munger's library, he's got every single biography of Ben Franklin you could find. And somehow I was able to give him a biography of Franklin he didn't have. And it was this book called Franklin in Washington. He didn't read the book, but he fucking knew everything in the book already.
And if you go to Charlie Munger's library, he's got every single biography of Ben Franklin you could find. And somehow I was able to give him a biography of Franklin he didn't have. And it was this book called Franklin in Washington. He didn't read the book, but he fucking knew everything in the book already.
And if you go to Charlie Munger's library, he's got every single biography of Ben Franklin you could find. And somehow I was able to give him a biography of Franklin he didn't have. And it was this book called Franklin in Washington. He didn't read the book, but he fucking knew everything in the book already.
And he was just like, yeah, one of the things that Ben Franklin did was he sought out a young George. This is what the book is about. Ben Franklin is 48 years old. He's the most famous person in the colonies. He reads George Washington is fighting the Native Americans with the British when he's 21 years old. He winds up seeing one of the best British generals get absolutely killed and massacred.
And he was just like, yeah, one of the things that Ben Franklin did was he sought out a young George. This is what the book is about. Ben Franklin is 48 years old. He's the most famous person in the colonies. He reads George Washington is fighting the Native Americans with the British when he's 21 years old. He winds up seeing one of the best British generals get absolutely killed and massacred.
And he was just like, yeah, one of the things that Ben Franklin did was he sought out a young George. This is what the book is about. Ben Franklin is 48 years old. He's the most famous person in the colonies. He reads George Washington is fighting the Native Americans with the British when he's 21 years old. He winds up seeing one of the best British generals get absolutely killed and massacred.
Because he was taking basically the playbook that worked in Europe and tried to fight the Native Americans with it, which is not going to work, right? And so a young George Washington writes in a journal about his experience. It's one that's being published in all the newspapers throughout America. Ben Franklin reads it. He's like, this guy's fucking smart. He has information I need.
Because he was taking basically the playbook that worked in Europe and tried to fight the Native Americans with it, which is not going to work, right? And so a young George Washington writes in a journal about his experience. It's one that's being published in all the newspapers throughout America. Ben Franklin reads it. He's like, this guy's fucking smart. He has information I need.
Because he was taking basically the playbook that worked in Europe and tried to fight the Native Americans with it, which is not going to work, right? And so a young George Washington writes in a journal about his experience. It's one that's being published in all the newspapers throughout America. Ben Franklin reads it. He's like, this guy's fucking smart. He has information I need.
I need to get to him. And so they start, he reaches out to him, he starts building a relationship that they wind up having up until, they weave in and out of each other's lives up until 40, seven, 30 years later, something like that when Franklin dies. And Munger's advice to me was like exactly what Ben did. He went out of his way to build relationships with other talented people.
I need to get to him. And so they start, he reaches out to him, he starts building a relationship that they wind up having up until, they weave in and out of each other's lives up until 40, seven, 30 years later, something like that when Franklin dies. And Munger's advice to me was like exactly what Ben did. He went out of his way to build relationships with other talented people.
I need to get to him. And so they start, he reaches out to him, he starts building a relationship that they wind up having up until, they weave in and out of each other's lives up until 40, seven, 30 years later, something like that when Franklin dies. And Munger's advice to me was like exactly what Ben did. He went out of his way to build relationships with other talented people.
He's like, that's exactly what we did. And he goes, everybody knows about me and Warren. It wasn't just me and Warren. It was all these guys. We built a seamless web of deserved trust and we did deals together forever. And the sad thing was most of them, by the time I met Charlie, had already passed on besides him and Warren. But I think that's, he would be like, you need to learn stuff.
He's like, that's exactly what we did. And he goes, everybody knows about me and Warren. It wasn't just me and Warren. It was all these guys. We built a seamless web of deserved trust and we did deals together forever. And the sad thing was most of them, by the time I met Charlie, had already passed on besides him and Warren. But I think that's, he would be like, you need to learn stuff.
He's like, that's exactly what we did. And he goes, everybody knows about me and Warren. It wasn't just me and Warren. It was all these guys. We built a seamless web of deserved trust and we did deals together forever. And the sad thing was most of them, by the time I met Charlie, had already passed on besides him and Warren. But I think that's, he would be like, you need to learn stuff.
You can't outsource it. He let other people run his money. This is why Hedy Green was so interesting to me. I love people that run their own, like the idea of running our own money is fascinating. And I don't, I'm uniquely unfit to manage institutional money. I don't have that personality. A good friend of mine was mentored by Sam Zell. And I just did another episode on Sam Zell.
You can't outsource it. He let other people run his money. This is why Hedy Green was so interesting to me. I love people that run their own, like the idea of running our own money is fascinating. And I don't, I'm uniquely unfit to manage institutional money. I don't have that personality. A good friend of mine was mentored by Sam Zell. And I just did another episode on Sam Zell.
You can't outsource it. He let other people run his money. This is why Hedy Green was so interesting to me. I love people that run their own, like the idea of running our own money is fascinating. And I don't, I'm uniquely unfit to manage institutional money. I don't have that personality. A good friend of mine was mentored by Sam Zell. And I just did another episode on Sam Zell.
And he's like, come over to my house the night before. I'll tell you all these stories from Sam. You can put it in your episode. And one of that was just like, Sam was too wild and crazy and would say crazy shit.
And he's like, come over to my house the night before. I'll tell you all these stories from Sam. You can put it in your episode. And one of that was just like, Sam was too wild and crazy and would say crazy shit.
And he's like, come over to my house the night before. I'll tell you all these stories from Sam. You can put it in your episode. And one of that was just like, Sam was too wild and crazy and would say crazy shit.
So he can't, he's like, he was, he said something like he was constitutionally unfit to run institution, to manage institutional money, which is a nice way of saying Sam's a fucking crazy guy. But I think Munger's point was like, he only let one other person run the one other outsider managed Munger family money. That was a Lilo.
So he can't, he's like, he was, he said something like he was constitutionally unfit to run institution, to manage institutional money, which is a nice way of saying Sam's a fucking crazy guy. But I think Munger's point was like, he only let one other person run the one other outsider managed Munger family money. That was a Lilo.
So he can't, he's like, he was, he said something like he was constitutionally unfit to run institution, to manage institutional money, which is a nice way of saying Sam's a fucking crazy guy. But I think Munger's point was like, he only let one other person run the one other outsider managed Munger family money. That was a Lilo.
And he said in nine, nine, once in 95 years, he gave money to an extra, to an outside person. He said, can Lilo. And he has a fascinating story with this, where he's like, I read Barron's magazine for 40 years, for 50 years. I found one idea I could act on in that 50 years of reading that magazine. Um, I made 40 million. No, I made $80 million on that. Charlie speaking.
And he said in nine, nine, once in 95 years, he gave money to an extra, to an outside person. He said, can Lilo. And he has a fascinating story with this, where he's like, I read Barron's magazine for 40 years, for 50 years. I found one idea I could act on in that 50 years of reading that magazine. Um, I made 40 million. No, I made $80 million on that. Charlie speaking.
And he said in nine, nine, once in 95 years, he gave money to an extra, to an outside person. He said, can Lilo. And he has a fascinating story with this, where he's like, I read Barron's magazine for 40 years, for 50 years. I found one idea I could act on in that 50 years of reading that magazine. Um, I made 40 million. No, I made $80 million on that. Charlie speaking.
Charlie's like, I made $80 million on that deal. Then I gave that 80 million and Leeloo, I gave the 80 million to Leeloo and Leeloo turned it into 400 million. So he goes, so I made 400 million by reading Barron's magazine for 50 years and giving that money to Leeloo. So he's very, very, you know, selective and he's like, you have to learn yourself.
Charlie's like, I made $80 million on that deal. Then I gave that 80 million and Leeloo, I gave the 80 million to Leeloo and Leeloo turned it into 400 million. So he goes, so I made 400 million by reading Barron's magazine for 50 years and giving that money to Leeloo. So he's very, very, you know, selective and he's like, you have to learn yourself.
Charlie's like, I made $80 million on that deal. Then I gave that 80 million and Leeloo, I gave the 80 million to Leeloo and Leeloo turned it into 400 million. So he goes, so I made 400 million by reading Barron's magazine for 50 years and giving that money to Leeloo. So he's very, very, you know, selective and he's like, you have to learn yourself.
If you, most other podcasts will like, they'll have like a consensus, this is the best episode. There is no consensus. It's like, depends, there's 375 of them as of today. Actually 391, because I have 16 that are not numbered. I checked that today, so that's not memory. I literally checked it today. So I have 16 bonus episodes that are not numbered.
If you, most other podcasts will like, they'll have like a consensus, this is the best episode. There is no consensus. It's like, depends, there's 375 of them as of today. Actually 391, because I have 16 that are not numbered. I checked that today, so that's not memory. I literally checked it today. So I have 16 bonus episodes that are not numbered.
If you, most other podcasts will like, they'll have like a consensus, this is the best episode. There is no consensus. It's like, depends, there's 375 of them as of today. Actually 391, because I have 16 that are not numbered. I checked that today, so that's not memory. I literally checked it today. So I have 16 bonus episodes that are not numbered.
But yeah, I just think like the obvious thing is find, one, if you already know you're interested in somebody like Bill Gates, what I would do is I would search Bill Gates and I would listen to that. And in the episodes, I'm going to reference other episodes. And so it's like, oh, this is like Ed Thorpe or this is like Edwin Land or whoever it was. And so in every single episode, it'll be,
But yeah, I just think like the obvious thing is find, one, if you already know you're interested in somebody like Bill Gates, what I would do is I would search Bill Gates and I would listen to that. And in the episodes, I'm going to reference other episodes. And so it's like, oh, this is like Ed Thorpe or this is like Edwin Land or whoever it was. And so in every single episode, it'll be,
But yeah, I just think like the obvious thing is find, one, if you already know you're interested in somebody like Bill Gates, what I would do is I would search Bill Gates and I would listen to that. And in the episodes, I'm going to reference other episodes. And so it's like, oh, this is like Ed Thorpe or this is like Edwin Land or whoever it was. And so in every single episode, it'll be,
like a pathway to other episodes. And then I think the thing I'm most interested in, Sam Poirier, who we referenced a few times, the first time I had dinner with him, he was in town for the Teal Fellowship meetup and he skipped it to have dinner with me, which I thought was very like nice of him.
like a pathway to other episodes. And then I think the thing I'm most interested in, Sam Poirier, who we referenced a few times, the first time I had dinner with him, he was in town for the Teal Fellowship meetup and he skipped it to have dinner with me, which I thought was very like nice of him.
like a pathway to other episodes. And then I think the thing I'm most interested in, Sam Poirier, who we referenced a few times, the first time I had dinner with him, he was in town for the Teal Fellowship meetup and he skipped it to have dinner with me, which I thought was very like nice of him.
And he says the product market fit of your podcast is not the Steve Jobs episodes or the Alexander Graham Bell or the Thomas Edison or the Walt Disney. He's like, it's the guys I've never fucking heard of that are remarkable. Like one of my favorite ones is episode 292. Can you check this for me? Daniel Ludwig, the invisible billionaire. I might be wrong on that.
And he says the product market fit of your podcast is not the Steve Jobs episodes or the Alexander Graham Bell or the Thomas Edison or the Walt Disney. He's like, it's the guys I've never fucking heard of that are remarkable. Like one of my favorite ones is episode 292. Can you check this for me? Daniel Ludwig, the invisible billionaire. I might be wrong on that.
And he says the product market fit of your podcast is not the Steve Jobs episodes or the Alexander Graham Bell or the Thomas Edison or the Walt Disney. He's like, it's the guys I've never fucking heard of that are remarkable. Like one of my favorite ones is episode 292. Can you check this for me? Daniel Ludwig, the invisible billionaire. I might be wrong on that.
He was the richest person in the world. I got it right? Okay. 292, Daniel Ludwig, invisible billionaire. He was the richest person in the world and no one knew his name. He paid a PR agency to keep his name out of the papers. And it's just like, that book was written, it was published in 1980, 1980 something. It's just like, this guy lived a remarkable life. No one knows who he was.
He was the richest person in the world. I got it right? Okay. 292, Daniel Ludwig, invisible billionaire. He was the richest person in the world and no one knew his name. He paid a PR agency to keep his name out of the papers. And it's just like, that book was written, it was published in 1980, 1980 something. It's just like, this guy lived a remarkable life. No one knows who he was.
He was the richest person in the world. I got it right? Okay. 292, Daniel Ludwig, invisible billionaire. He was the richest person in the world and no one knew his name. He paid a PR agency to keep his name out of the papers. And it's just like, that book was written, it was published in 1980, 1980 something. It's just like, this guy lived a remarkable life. No one knows who he was.
I wound up randomly picking up a book, probably a used bookstore, reading about him. And now you get to know that he existed and learn from him and read the book. It's remarkable.
I wound up randomly picking up a book, probably a used bookstore, reading about him. And now you get to know that he existed and learn from him and read the book. It's remarkable.
I wound up randomly picking up a book, probably a used bookstore, reading about him. And now you get to know that he existed and learn from him and read the book. It's remarkable.
There's, is there two episodes? So Brad was a huge fan of founders.
There's, is there two episodes? So Brad was a huge fan of founders.
There's, is there two episodes? So Brad was a huge fan of founders.
So he's like my LinkedIn reply guy. It's hilarious. And three 30, three, three, seven. No, no, that's the breakfast of Brad Jacobs. There's another one. Yeah. It's called how to make a few billion dollars. You see what episode number that is. So I can talk about this publicly because Jared said it on the conversation you had with Patrick.
So he's like my LinkedIn reply guy. It's hilarious. And three 30, three, three, seven. No, no, that's the breakfast of Brad Jacobs. There's another one. Yeah. It's called how to make a few billion dollars. You see what episode number that is. So I can talk about this publicly because Jared said it on the conversation you had with Patrick.
So he's like my LinkedIn reply guy. It's hilarious. And three 30, three, three, seven. No, no, that's the breakfast of Brad Jacobs. There's another one. Yeah. It's called how to make a few billion dollars. You see what episode number that is. So I can talk about this publicly because Jared said it on the conversation you had with Patrick.
He's very fucking nice to say this and I don't, I don't deserve it. 335, so I was off by four. He talks about this on Patrick's podcast. He's like, he heard about Brad Jacobs while listening to that episode, goes to meet him. They hit it off. He hears about Brad's idea for his new company, XPO, I think it's called. He winds up investing $150 million to joining the board.
He's very fucking nice to say this and I don't, I don't deserve it. 335, so I was off by four. He talks about this on Patrick's podcast. He's like, he heard about Brad Jacobs while listening to that episode, goes to meet him. They hit it off. He hears about Brad's idea for his new company, XPO, I think it's called. He winds up investing $150 million to joining the board.
He's very fucking nice to say this and I don't, I don't deserve it. 335, so I was off by four. He talks about this on Patrick's podcast. He's like, he heard about Brad Jacobs while listening to that episode, goes to meet him. They hit it off. He hears about Brad's idea for his new company, XPO, I think it's called. He winds up investing $150 million to joining the board.
So Brad is another person where it's like the amount of information that's in that guy's head is scary. He's 68 years old, the most energetic person. I just went to his house. 68 years old, the most energetic person I've ever been around. And just relentless note taker, relentless reader, relentless podcaster in his book. how to make a few billion dollars.
So Brad is another person where it's like the amount of information that's in that guy's head is scary. He's 68 years old, the most energetic person. I just went to his house. 68 years old, the most energetic person I've ever been around. And just relentless note taker, relentless reader, relentless podcaster in his book. how to make a few billion dollars.
So Brad is another person where it's like the amount of information that's in that guy's head is scary. He's 68 years old, the most energetic person. I just went to his house. 68 years old, the most energetic person I've ever been around. And just relentless note taker, relentless reader, relentless podcaster in his book. how to make a few billion dollars.
You got to read the section on the research he does before he invests. It's fucking incredible. Absolutely incredible. The amount of information he collects.
You got to read the section on the research he does before he invests. It's fucking incredible. Absolutely incredible. The amount of information he collects.
You got to read the section on the research he does before he invests. It's fucking incredible. Absolutely incredible. The amount of information he collects.
Thanks for inviting me. Sorry, we didn't do any startup ideas. I don't have any besides do a podcast.
Thanks for inviting me. Sorry, we didn't do any startup ideas. I don't have any besides do a podcast.
Thanks for inviting me. Sorry, we didn't do any startup ideas. I don't have any besides do a podcast.