David Seymour

Well, and this is precisely why we want to use some of the money that we collect in an infrastructure levy for greater enforcement of the rules because the thing that I overwhelmingly get, and I'm generally a defender of migration, I think that this country and its character and its infrastructure have been built by wave after wave of settlement and it's been a good thing and it will have to continue if we want our country to work.

But people say to me, look, I hear what you're saying about the strict rules on paper, but that's not what we're seeing in reality.

And that's why we need to start enforcing these rules.

Well, representative democracy involves a person hearing the concerns and hopes of their community and taking it to Wellington.

So yes, if you were to make up your policy on the basis of what one person said, that would be very foolish.

If you were to make up your policy based on a combination of studying the data, listening to the people, getting out doing street corner meetings, having people come into your electorate office...

and generally being informed about what is happening in your community, then that's actually representative democracy in action.

I would argue that what we are proposing is pro-immigration, but it has to work for New Zealand.

It has to work for New Zealand in the sense that the Kiwi character is being built.

When you've got 20,000 overstayers whose first act in New Zealand is breaking the law, that is not contributing to the Kiwi character.

Well, I actually don't know why it's so difficult.

But what I would say is that we haven't been taking it seriously enough to get to this point.

And that's why the direction we indicate in this election is that we actually think you should have to follow the law.

That's going to be a refrain that we'll hear all year.

You know, you're already in government, why haven't you fixed everything?

My answer to that is that we are seeking election for another three years, and if we're simply going to say, well, you've had three years, if you haven't fixed it, then there's nothing more to do, then there wouldn't be any point in laying out policies for another three years.

Well, I certainly agree that that would be good to do, but it hasn't happened.

So what are we going to do about it?

There is an election.

We do have to campaign.