David Yelland

And she's a real person.

I mean, what applies to journalists also applies to business.

But I can tell you, Anushka, that what you've said will horrify people in business.

The idea that, you know, somebody running a business, a CEO, for example, would have to show themselves at breakfast or whatever.

What they like to do is they like to stay pretty anonymous for most of the year and then go into the media and announce their results or acquisition or whatever it is.

And then come out.

PR traditionally for my generation – by the way, you asked me if I'm Gen Z. I don't want to know what I am, but I'm definitely not Gen Z. It has been – we go into the media when we want and we come out of it when we don't.

And the politicians have, of course, much more difficult and complex.

They have to be in it.

But this is why, one of the reasons why business has lost the argument.

It hasn't got a voice.

It can't speak because the human beings within it simply don't want to engage in the way that you've talked about.

Yeah.

Well, that's it from both of us for this week.

Thanks as always for listening.

Anoushka, thank you so much for joining the pod this week.

Now, I know we're only mid-January, but Anoushka, your year is already filling up.

And of course, folks, you can subscribe to both our podcasts, Fame Under Fire and When It Hits the Fan, by subscribing on BBC Sounds.

But that is all we've got time for today.

Anoushka, it's been an absolute pleasure.