Chapter 1: What is the focus of the podcast episode?
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Hello, Fame Under Fire listeners. I'm David Yelland from When It Hits the Fan, the podcast where we take you inside the world of reputational crises and examine who's making the headlines and why. Recently, Anoushka came into the studio to talk through some of the big stories dominating the media landscape, from Candace Owens to the Diddy Trial and a lot more.
We thought you might find the conversation illuminating. If you enjoy what you hear, just search for When It Hits The Fan on BBC Sounds where you can find all our latest episodes. Hello and welcome to When It Hits The Fan, the hit BBC show about what happens when the powerful mess things up. This week, as you know, Simon is having fun in the snow with the world's power brokers in Davos.
So the podcast mixologists at the BBC, they do like a bit of pod mashing, have put us together with another BBC podcast, which I am thrilled to say is Fame Under Fire, presented, of course, by Anoushka Mutanda-Doughty. Hello, Anoushka.
Hi, David. It's lovely to be here. It's nice to see other people because I usually spend my time digging around in lawsuits involving some of the most famous people in the world. We've had rappers, world leaders, right-wing influencers, you name it, we've got it.
But one thing that I am learning, which is I think why they put us together, is the PR sometimes is more important than what's actually going on in the courtroom. So I want to pick your brains.
Well, I want to pick your brains as well. And we live in similar worlds. We have podcasts in similar worlds. You go where fame's under fire and we go where things hit the fan. But we both hang out in the same place. Well, I've noticed you call the multiverse of madness. And boy, the multiverse is sure getting madder and madder right now. So we have a great deal to talk about.
But look, our listeners know all about fan hitters. Tell us about Fame Under Fire. How did it start? What's it all about? Give us the elevator pitch.
I always say we apply the same level of journalistic scrutiny to non-traditional power figures. That's how I'd sum it up to people. And that essentially means celebrities. I mean, we fund their lifestyles. We let them into our homes, our hearts. We watch their IP, their movies. We listen to their songs.
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Chapter 2: How does Diddy's trial illustrate the power of public opinion?
So can you prove me right, please? Yeah.
She'll probably clip that and put that on her social media. I'm not going to lie. Candace is an uncomfortable thing for a lot of people. She is. Candace rose to sort of fame in 2016. She was very pro-Trump. She's African-American woman. So she was like an African-American voice for Trump. And she speaks very well. I say she appropriates the cadence of authority. She does.
She comes across really well. She's a very forceful speaker as well. Now, she has the fastest growing right-wing podcast. Her podcast was getting 3 million listeners a day. She does live streams to 150,000 people. She has been directly addressed by BB Net and Yahoo. She has been spoken about by President Donald Trump. She's obviously being sued by the Macrons.
She's an uncomfortable thing because she talks a lot of crap. That's the problem with Candace Owens. But the problem is... A lot of people are in the cult of Candice. A lot of people believe what she has to say. And I'm not coming out there and saying, you're all idiots. How could you believe what Candice Owens has to say? It's born of a, you know, a fear of institutions.
It's born of a mistrust in mainstream media.
Why the listeners love her. Yeah.
it's born of all of that and candace taps into those anxieties she perpetuates them and she sort of takes on the position of the individual independent journalist fighting for the truth against all of that she's taken that macron story she said brigitte is a man they are lying to you they are the institution i am the independent journalist and i'm going to tell you the truth and it has done wonders for her brand and her bank account you see the thing is
I grew up in the Murdoch Company, Rupert Murdoch Company, the Sun and the New York Post. And that is what they did. That is how you build a mass audience. What you say to your audience is, are you thinking what I'm thinking? And that is what she does. She does it brilliantly. So I recognize, I recognize that.
But she is absolutely, and I don't care if she does clip this, she is absolutely brilliant at what she does. We just need to explain to the listeners why Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister of Israel, has had to stand in the studio and condemn her and attack her.
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Chapter 3: What are the implications of the Diddy case for PR strategies?
You came with me every step of the way. And then I streamed live for two hours at the end of every day. And you could just directly ask me questions I'd answer on the spot. And I did see, I mean, it's a real ask. And I get that. I really do understand that. But
The proof was in the community that we built of people going, you know, I wouldn't normally come to the BBC because I typically hate the BBC. But I know where she is. I know what she's doing. I know she's actually in that courtroom. I know who she's speaking to when she gets out.
And she's a real person.
And that had to combat, you know, that ecosystem of content combated that mistrust in the mainstream media. But in that way, you're asking journalists to... To turn themselves into brands.
I mean, what applies to journalists also applies to business. But I can tell you, Anushka, that what you've said will horrify people in business. The idea that, you know, somebody running a business, a CEO, for example, would have to show themselves at breakfast or whatever.
What they like to do is they like to stay pretty anonymous for most of the year and then go into the media and announce their results or acquisition or whatever it is. And then come out.
PR traditionally for my generation ā by the way, you asked me if I'm Gen Z. I don't want to know what I am, but I'm definitely not Gen Z. It has been ā we go into the media when we want and we come out of it when we don't. And the politicians have, of course, much more difficult and complex. They have to be in it. But this is why, one of the reasons why business has lost the argument.
It hasn't got a voice. It can't speak because the human beings within it simply don't want to engage in the way that you've talked about.
I know it is different though. If you're a CEO of a huge business.
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