David Zweig

And I give examples of how we know this is true because the American Academy of Pediatrics had come out very forcefully for opening schools. They even said, don't worry about six feet of distancing. As soon as Trump made that tweet, within days, the AAP reversed its guidance.

And I give examples of how we know this is true because the American Academy of Pediatrics had come out very forcefully for opening schools. They even said, don't worry about six feet of distancing. As soon as Trump made that tweet, within days, the AAP reversed its guidance.

Narrative formation is how policy essentially was both created and defended.

Narrative formation is how policy essentially was both created and defended.

And as you pointed out, I think at the beginning of our conversation, part of that narrative formation and sort of narrative, there's almost like a policing of the narrative, was the charge that anyone who disagreed was a fool, was, you know, you were a piece of garbage if you didn't want to wear a mask and keep your six feet of distancing. Never mind that these rules were made up and arbitrary.

And as you pointed out, I think at the beginning of our conversation, part of that narrative formation and sort of narrative, there's almost like a policing of the narrative, was the charge that anyone who disagreed was a fool, was, you know, you were a piece of garbage if you didn't want to wear a mask and keep your six feet of distancing. Never mind that these rules were made up and arbitrary.

you know, as I'm sure you're aware, that much of the mask, you know, defense of the mask mandates were based on studies such as ones that were done in a lab where they glued the mask to a mannequin's face. Like that is not how human beings operate. So, I mean, much of what I talk about in the book is this sort of distance between something that

you know, as I'm sure you're aware, that much of the mask, you know, defense of the mask mandates were based on studies such as ones that were done in a lab where they glued the mask to a mannequin's face. Like that is not how human beings operate. So, I mean, much of what I talk about in the book is this sort of distance between something that

might make intuitive sense and might look good in a lab study, but the distance between that and reality, because human beings are not mannequins. And generally, even health care professionals, and I'm sure you know about this, even they have trouble wearing a mask properly and tightly fitted for a long duration. And that's the professionals.

might make intuitive sense and might look good in a lab study, but the distance between that and reality, because human beings are not mannequins. And generally, even health care professionals, and I'm sure you know about this, even they have trouble wearing a mask properly and tightly fitted for a long duration. And that's the professionals.

There was zero chance that children in the school, you have a bunch of five-year-olds wearing a mask that their parents bought off of Etsy or Amazon, that they were having any sort of effect on this. And sure enough, there's zero randomized trials that show that mask mandates in schools are effective. And they're not.

There was zero chance that children in the school, you have a bunch of five-year-olds wearing a mask that their parents bought off of Etsy or Amazon, that they were having any sort of effect on this. And sure enough, there's zero randomized trials that show that mask mandates in schools are effective. And they're not.

In fact, there's quite a bit of evidence to the contrary, that they're just not effective. And it's not because a mask theoretically will stop a virus from passing through. Yes, it can if it's glued to a mannequin's face, but humans don't behave that way. And it's the same thing with the school closures overall.

In fact, there's quite a bit of evidence to the contrary, that they're just not effective. And it's not because a mask theoretically will stop a virus from passing through. Yes, it can if it's glued to a mannequin's face, but humans don't behave that way. And it's the same thing with the school closures overall.

Someone might intuitively think, well, yeah, there's a bunch of kids running around with snotty noses. Sure, closing schools will probably have some benefit. But again, that is the distance between the theory and the reality, because the reality is, as we talked about earlier, Over time, people don't comply with uncomfortable and difficult recommendations.

Someone might intuitively think, well, yeah, there's a bunch of kids running around with snotty noses. Sure, closing schools will probably have some benefit. But again, that is the distance between the theory and the reality, because the reality is, as we talked about earlier, Over time, people don't comply with uncomfortable and difficult recommendations.

Just like you're not going to keep a mask tightly fit to your face for eight hours, people, even the introverts among us, don't stay sequestered at home for weeks and then months and months on end. It doesn't happen. And sure enough, I point out in the book,

Just like you're not going to keep a mask tightly fit to your face for eight hours, people, even the introverts among us, don't stay sequestered at home for weeks and then months and months on end. It doesn't happen. And sure enough, I point out in the book,

There's a lot of mobile phone data that proves this, that even before they pulled back on a lot of guidance, people were already moving around. And that's to say nothing of a significant portion of the population of the first-line people who are out there working. who are always mixing in society. And where were their children going?

There's a lot of mobile phone data that proves this, that even before they pulled back on a lot of guidance, people were already moving around. And that's to say nothing of a significant portion of the population of the first-line people who are out there working. who are always mixing in society. And where were their children going?