Dax Shepard

pretty much.

He actually said, no, I beg to differ because he saw what happens when children get all of their material needs met, but they were not given the attachment that they needed.

And so he said, no, attachment is a basic need, just like food and water.

It's not a byproduct.

It's something that we need.

And then there's the

Harlow experiments that showed, even in monkeys, how much they really need.

These poor little monkeys clinging to a cloth.

Instead of the wired mother versus the cloth mother.

The wired mother gave food, and the cloth mother, it was just a piece of cloth.

Gave intimacy, basically.

Yeah, but it was cold and metal, but it was just cloth, and the monkeys went to the cloth.

at the expense of food.

They would eat a little bit and then sort of go to the cloth.

But remember what he said, because we don't really understand it so much in adulthood.

And Bobby did say that a thatchon starts in birth, actually starts before, and then goes on until we die.

And I would argue even after, here we were talking about our fathers.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Wow, great point.

Basically, he said that, but then came Mary Ainsworth.