Deborah Roberts

Talk about Carrie's family, too, because they played a big part in this and they call themselves Charlie's Angels. What was that all about?

Which we see a lot. You and I have covered stories before where people have just stayed on it and stayed on it. And that's what actually brought cases to court. What did you make of the family and how have they managed to sort of hold up? And what was their demeanor like as they went through this whole process?

Which we see a lot. You and I have covered stories before where people have just stayed on it and stayed on it. And that's what actually brought cases to court. What did you make of the family and how have they managed to sort of hold up? And what was their demeanor like as they went through this whole process?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's always so fascinating when there's that turning point for people in these cases. All right. Well, we're going to take a break. And when we come back, what our 2020 team put together to challenge Matt's claims and just how improbable they really were.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's always so fascinating when there's that turning point for people in these cases. All right. Well, we're going to take a break. And when we come back, what our 2020 team put together to challenge Matt's claims and just how improbable they really were.

Where is June Osborn? Rise up and fight for your freedom.

Where is June Osborn? Rise up and fight for your freedom.

We are back. All right. So much of this program featured archival tape. But you guys also got new interviews to round out the picture of this case. And one moment that just stood out to me was a test we did with Texas Ranger Matt Cawthon, another Matt. And this was pretty creative, Denise. I mean, we do a lot of creative things here in the field. But tell us about this idea about the dummy.

We are back. All right. So much of this program featured archival tape. But you guys also got new interviews to round out the picture of this case. And one moment that just stood out to me was a test we did with Texas Ranger Matt Cawthon, another Matt. And this was pretty creative, Denise. I mean, we do a lot of creative things here in the field. But tell us about this idea about the dummy.

And tell us what that was that they were trying to unfold.

And tell us what that was that they were trying to unfold.

Trying to save her life.

Trying to save her life.

And that was really fascinating. So, Samantha, talk about that because you were in charge of this very heavy replica, this dummy, which was just under 200 pounds, right?

And that was really fascinating. So, Samantha, talk about that because you were in charge of this very heavy replica, this dummy, which was just under 200 pounds, right?

Calling that, right?

Calling that, right?

So he helped you lift this like it was nothing. And the whole goal was for John Quinones, our reporter, to sit there and observe and tell me what that was all about. So they're going to try to hurriedly see if they can beat the clock in terms of like dressing this dummy and showing us how prosecutors were able to reveal in the trial that it didn't seem plausible.

So he helped you lift this like it was nothing. And the whole goal was for John Quinones, our reporter, to sit there and observe and tell me what that was all about. So they're going to try to hurriedly see if they can beat the clock in terms of like dressing this dummy and showing us how prosecutors were able to reveal in the trial that it didn't seem plausible.

Yeah. And that was that was critical, Denise, too. I mean, and for us, talk to us a little bit about why we choose to do these things, because I think one of the things our listeners find intriguing is how we got to that point and why we thought that was important. So why did we think that would make such a difference in our story?