Derek O'Carroll

So it's new contract value, I suppose, in other parlance.

And it's subs only, so no PS.

So average professional services for implementation is about $18,000 per new customer, around 18 billable days.

And customers go live.

We're clipping along at about 110 days in the last 12 months, in the last 12-month period.

And that's calendar days.

So that's from when you sign to when you go live.

which in comparison to the sort of legacy ERP systems like SAP or NetSuite, they're typically about a year or a year and a half.

Well, at the end of the day, we're in B2B software.

So it's complex by its nature and its people and software.

And you need individuals who've got expertise to bring people along the journey.

If you don't, you don't get people up and running.

And I think the key number that we look at is pre-live and post-live churn.

If you don't get professional services right, you see pre-live churn spike, which obviously impacts your universal churn.

And then post-live churn, you want to drive down below 10% and get to sort of 4% and be super sticky.

And that's why professional services and the customer success journey post-signature is so, so important.

So if you look at it in a just individual scope of P.S.,

And it's not margin rich, you're actually missing the wider picture.

So you got to think end to end.

We're at still 13% churn and DOR is at 102%.