Derek Thompson

On the one hand, people becoming less religious.

On the other hand, people becoming more religious.

But it's the same anti-institutional zeitgeist that's powering both.

I think that's really, really interesting.

I was thinking about him.

while you were talking.

Anti-authority philosophy.

powering the revitalization of Christianity as much as it's powering the rise of secularism is such a strange idea that I never would have made, even considered that sentence plausible to say out loud before this conversation.

But I really like that idea.

I think it's really counterintuitive and chewy.

I want to talk a little bit about the nuns, as you call them, because the same way that

To non-Christians, Christianity looks like one big Borg, but to Christians, they recognize the riotous diversity inside of Christianity.

Among people looking at non-believers, they think, oh, it's just one big Borg of people who hate Christianity, but you've done a really good job explaining how there are really

four subcategories of non-believers.

And I'd love you to run down those four categories before we talk about the fastest growing part of the non-believer movement.

To make fun of myself, just before you continue to go on and explain this to the groups.

Yeah.

I remember in my 20s, I certainly wasn't very religious.

And when I was dating...

I believed that there was a lucky pair of socks that I had.