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Derek Thompson

๐Ÿ‘ค Speaker
4978 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

The Ezra Klein Show
The Origins of Abundance

Just because somebody comes up with a good idea does not mean that it's going to change the world. ideas are cheap, building is hard. And I'm rolling off of book leave with this idea sort of swimming in my head. And in September 2021, I see that you have published an essay in the New York Times that's called, quote, the economic mistake the left is finally confronting.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Origins of Abundance

And you use this essay to introduce a term that you call supply side progressivism. What was this essay about? Why did you read it?

The Ezra Klein Show
The Origins of Abundance

And you use this essay to introduce a term that you call supply side progressivism. What was this essay about? Why did you read it?

The Ezra Klein Show
The Origins of Abundance

So I read your essay and I'm inspired by it. I'm inspired by... I'm happy to hear that, Derek. That's a sweet thing of you to say. I absolutely was. I was inspired by the substance of it, this fusion of liberalism and technology, which I found important but didn't quite find an interesting way to articulate in an important way. But I'm also inspired by a semantic move that you make.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Origins of Abundance

So I read your essay and I'm inspired by it. I'm inspired by... I'm happy to hear that, Derek. That's a sweet thing of you to say. I absolutely was. I was inspired by the substance of it, this fusion of liberalism and technology, which I found important but didn't quite find an interesting way to articulate in an important way. But I'm also inspired by a semantic move that you make.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Origins of Abundance

You take this concept of this ideology of progressivism, which in recent years has been judged and defined on the demand side. Progressives ask, in many cases, to be judged on how much they spend to make the world a better place. And you do this really clever maneuver where you flip the yardstick. You say, what if we judge liberalism not by what it spent, but rather by what it built?

The Ezra Klein Show
The Origins of Abundance

You take this concept of this ideology of progressivism, which in recent years has been judged and defined on the demand side. Progressives ask, in many cases, to be judged on how much they spend to make the world a better place. And you do this really clever maneuver where you flip the yardstick. You say, what if we judge liberalism not by what it spent, but rather by what it built?

The Ezra Klein Show
The Origins of Abundance

That's what yimbyism does. It says how much housing have you built, not how much have you spent on housing. That's what yimbyism for clean energy would be for, not just how much have you authorized to spend on solar, how much solar have you deployed. And I'm thinking about it as it meets my own project about this distinction between invention and implementation.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Origins of Abundance

That's what yimbyism does. It says how much housing have you built, not how much have you spent on housing. That's what yimbyism for clean energy would be for, not just how much have you authorized to spend on solar, how much solar have you deployed. And I'm thinking about it as it meets my own project about this distinction between invention and implementation.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Origins of Abundance

And maybe similar to you, there's a bunch of ideas that are swirling around in my head, waiting to be conjoined into one idea. And it's January 2022, and I'm standing in line in the freezing cold in Washington, D.C., waiting for some rationed COVID test because Omicron is circulating. And it's cold, and I don't do well in the cold, and I'm just angry.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Origins of Abundance

And maybe similar to you, there's a bunch of ideas that are swirling around in my head, waiting to be conjoined into one idea. And it's January 2022, and I'm standing in line in the freezing cold in Washington, D.C., waiting for some rationed COVID test because Omicron is circulating. And it's cold, and I don't do well in the cold, and I'm just angry.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Origins of Abundance

It's been two years since the pandemic started. There aren't enough tests. And before that, there weren't enough vaccines. And before that, there wasn't enough PPE. And as I'm getting angrier and angrier, I'm thinking if you zoom out, there's been a supply chain crisis in the pandemic, in the post-pandemic era.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Origins of Abundance

It's been two years since the pandemic started. There aren't enough tests. And before that, there weren't enough vaccines. And before that, there wasn't enough PPE. And as I'm getting angrier and angrier, I'm thinking if you zoom out, there's been a supply chain crisis in the pandemic, in the post-pandemic era.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Origins of Abundance

And if you zoom out again and look at the entire century, it's been defined by a housing crisis and a clean energy scarcity and even a shortage of doctors. And I write this sort of controlled screed that says this is a century that has been pockmarked by scarcity. And what if we could fix that with an abundance agenda?

The Ezra Klein Show
The Origins of Abundance

And if you zoom out again and look at the entire century, it's been defined by a housing crisis and a clean energy scarcity and even a shortage of doctors. And I write this sort of controlled screed that says this is a century that has been pockmarked by scarcity. And what if we could fix that with an abundance agenda?

The Ezra Klein Show
The Origins of Abundance

I'd write this piece, the Abundance Agenda piece, and I have a sense now of where the story goes in my head. But what do you recall is the bridge that takes us from this moment to us getting together and deciding faithfully to work on a book together?

The Ezra Klein Show
The Origins of Abundance

I'd write this piece, the Abundance Agenda piece, and I have a sense now of where the story goes in my head. But what do you recall is the bridge that takes us from this moment to us getting together and deciding faithfully to work on a book together?

The Ezra Klein Show
The Origins of Abundance

Let me answer your question directly just after I reflect in the crypto conversations. If I recall, you called me and essentially said, there's a piece of this technology that many people I consider smart are so interested in that I want to be similarly interested in. Are you interested in it?

The Ezra Klein Show
The Origins of Abundance

Let me answer your question directly just after I reflect in the crypto conversations. If I recall, you called me and essentially said, there's a piece of this technology that many people I consider smart are so interested in that I want to be similarly interested in. Are you interested in it?

The Ezra Klein Show
The Origins of Abundance

And the feeling that I had about crypto in 2021 is for better or worse, very similar to the feeling that I have about crypto in 2025, which is that I think it is historically remarkable for any technology to become or to mint multi-billion dollar wealth before it demonstrates a use case outside of creating an asset class to bet coins up to the moon.