Derek Thompson
👤 SpeakerAppearances Over Time
Podcast Appearances
And the feeling that I had about crypto in 2021 is for better or worse, very similar to the feeling that I have about crypto in 2025, which is that I think it is historically remarkable for any technology to become or to mint multi-billion dollar wealth before it demonstrates a use case outside of creating an asset class to bet coins up to the moon.
And I'm still incredibly confused by it, and I was confused about it on the phone in 2021, and four years of thinking about it has unfortunately not revealed much more, to use a telianism, a definite optimism about this technology. But it was, I remember that those conversations about crypto were sort of the beginning of our being in touch in a different kind of way in the run-up to this project.
And I'm still incredibly confused by it, and I was confused about it on the phone in 2021, and four years of thinking about it has unfortunately not revealed much more, to use a telianism, a definite optimism about this technology. But it was, I remember that those conversations about crypto were sort of the beginning of our being in touch in a different kind of way in the run-up to this project.
What I do remember, maybe the day of or the day after publishing the Abundance Agenda essay, is that you texted me and essentially said what you just said here on this call. You said, I think we might be circling the same book and we could race each other to the finish line or maybe we should write the book together. And I texted you back and said, yeah, maybe we should write this book together.
What I do remember, maybe the day of or the day after publishing the Abundance Agenda essay, is that you texted me and essentially said what you just said here on this call. You said, I think we might be circling the same book and we could race each other to the finish line or maybe we should write the book together. And I texted you back and said, yeah, maybe we should write this book together.
And I tell my wife, hey, you know, I think I might write this book about... abundance, the abundance agenda with Ezra Klein. And she takes my phone and she does that thing where you pull back the text message so you can see the timestamp. And she sees that you sent your text at like 1247 p.m. and that I responded to the text at 1247 p.m.
And I tell my wife, hey, you know, I think I might write this book about... abundance, the abundance agenda with Ezra Klein. And she takes my phone and she does that thing where you pull back the text message so you can see the timestamp. And she sees that you sent your text at like 1247 p.m. and that I responded to the text at 1247 p.m.
And she's like, you didn't have the forbearance, the self-respect to wait 15 seconds before saying yes. You were so desperate to say yes to this project in less than a minute. And I was like, yes, I think that I think this could be like a really fun thing. I do think that we are coming at this idea at the same idea from opposite sides.
And she's like, you didn't have the forbearance, the self-respect to wait 15 seconds before saying yes. You were so desperate to say yes to this project in less than a minute. And I was like, yes, I think that I think this could be like a really fun thing. I do think that we are coming at this idea at the same idea from opposite sides.
Anything else we should hit about the run up to the collaboration on this book before we dive into the book itself?
Anything else we should hit about the run up to the collaboration on this book before we dive into the book itself?
Just to jump in, yes, the paper is called Cost Disease Socialism by Stephen Tellis. Sam Hammond and Daniel Takash.
Just to jump in, yes, the paper is called Cost Disease Socialism by Stephen Tellis. Sam Hammond and Daniel Takash.
And on the topic of liberals needing to care about productivity in a new kind of way, especially when interest rates are high, I would also want to throw out Eli Dorado and Noah Smith, who I think did really good work on setting the table for a lot of ideas that make their way into the book.
And on the topic of liberals needing to care about productivity in a new kind of way, especially when interest rates are high, I would also want to throw out Eli Dorado and Noah Smith, who I think did really good work on setting the table for a lot of ideas that make their way into the book.
Yes. Someone asked me recently how my vision of the book shifted from the original Abundance essay to the final book, Abundance. And I loved this question. So I want to turn it toward you. How is the book that exists now different from the one you imagined in, say, 2022?
Yes. Someone asked me recently how my vision of the book shifted from the original Abundance essay to the final book, Abundance. And I loved this question. So I want to turn it toward you. How is the book that exists now different from the one you imagined in, say, 2022?
I think the biggest difference between the essay and the book is the level of political critique. I think that in part, maybe due to my own personality, which is pathologically agreeable and seeking optimism wherever I can find it, I did not initially see this book as requiring the depth of of political critique of liberalism in the last 50 years that the book that we wrote has.