Dex Hunter-Torricke

Right.

Which was something that Vladimir Putin literally, he held events where he would talk about that as potentially a long range goal for Russia.

But, you know, it's one of those things where, you know, scholars will debate this stuff.

You know, actually, at the dawn of the Cold War, there were proposals from the United States to put all the nuclear weapons in the world under the control of the UN.

And it turned out that wasn't really a sincere thing.

That was, in fact, them trying to call Russia's bluff, because they knew Russia actually would never agree to it.

They would just want to have their own arsenal.

And so it was just a way to get the US to have some nice PR.

But it's something where I think this speaks to kind of the moment we're in, right?

This actually is very relevant to some of the stuff I'm working on.

There was no vision really for what a post-Cold War international order that really was inclusive, that would represent the world's people, that would stop nations simply descending into grievances and end up butting up against just Western hegemonic power.

There was no plan whatsoever.

And we're sort of

Still in that moment, there's a bunch of leaders now who really regret the state of the world, but they have no vision for what a real future could look like.

In many ways, they just want to go back to some idealized moment of the past.

It's the 90s.

It's 2007 before the economic crisis.

It's 2015 before Trump.

We're never going back to any of those moments.

That is not the way to actually save societies.