Dr. Chris van Tulleken

No one is saying we should take the evidence around ultra processed food and just directly apply it to policy any more than we should say, you know, we have good evidence that alcohol is harmful, so we should ban alcohol. We should go back to prohibition. I mean, no, that's not how you use scientific evidence. You use it with nuance. It's a strange debate and it did not feel good faith.

No one is saying we should take the evidence around ultra processed food and just directly apply it to policy any more than we should say, you know, we have good evidence that alcohol is harmful, so we should ban alcohol. We should go back to prohibition. I mean, no, that's not how you use scientific evidence. You use it with nuance. It's a strange debate and it did not feel good faith.

No one is saying we should take the evidence around ultra processed food and just directly apply it to policy any more than we should say, you know, we have good evidence that alcohol is harmful, so we should ban alcohol. We should go back to prohibition. I mean, no, that's not how you use scientific evidence. You use it with nuance. It's a strange debate and it did not feel good faith.

He also misunderstood some basic epidemiology, which I think was embarrassing for him.

He also misunderstood some basic epidemiology, which I think was embarrassing for him.

He also misunderstood some basic epidemiology, which I think was embarrassing for him.

Let me try and break this down as I see it. A huge amount of the harm of ultra processed food comes from the very high levels of salt, sugar and fat and just calories. But here's the thing, when you cook at home you also cook with salt, sugar and fat. If you make a chocolate brownie. I mean, you just gave me your, your recipe for chocolate, your, you know, the Mark Hyman chocolate cookies.

Let me try and break this down as I see it. A huge amount of the harm of ultra processed food comes from the very high levels of salt, sugar and fat and just calories. But here's the thing, when you cook at home you also cook with salt, sugar and fat. If you make a chocolate brownie. I mean, you just gave me your, your recipe for chocolate, your, you know, the Mark Hyman chocolate cookies.

Let me try and break this down as I see it. A huge amount of the harm of ultra processed food comes from the very high levels of salt, sugar and fat and just calories. But here's the thing, when you cook at home you also cook with salt, sugar and fat. If you make a chocolate brownie. I mean, you just gave me your, your recipe for chocolate, your, you know, the Mark Hyman chocolate cookies.

Now let's say we match them. You, let's say you really let your hand slip with the salt because you, you understand how food processing works. So you make salty, sugary, fatty cookies because that's what we all love. In fact, they're exactly as salty and sugary and fatty as the big brand you also mentioned. What you aren't able to do is to engineer your cookies, so I'll have three of them.

Now let's say we match them. You, let's say you really let your hand slip with the salt because you, you understand how food processing works. So you make salty, sugary, fatty cookies because that's what we all love. In fact, they're exactly as salty and sugary and fatty as the big brand you also mentioned. What you aren't able to do is to engineer your cookies, so I'll have three of them.

Now let's say we match them. You, let's say you really let your hand slip with the salt because you, you understand how food processing works. So you make salty, sugary, fatty cookies because that's what we all love. In fact, they're exactly as salty and sugary and fatty as the big brand you also mentioned. What you aren't able to do is to engineer your cookies, so I'll have three of them.

Even if you cook with as much salt, sugar, and fat, because you haven't put people in MRI scanners in order to develop your cookies, and we know that the big food companies use brain scanners to do product development, you haven't employed 100 PhD nutritionists to optimize every product through 1,000 focus groups over three decades. We also know you won't use as much salt, sugar, and fat.

Even if you cook with as much salt, sugar, and fat, because you haven't put people in MRI scanners in order to develop your cookies, and we know that the big food companies use brain scanners to do product development, you haven't employed 100 PhD nutritionists to optimize every product through 1,000 focus groups over three decades. We also know you won't use as much salt, sugar, and fat.

Even if you cook with as much salt, sugar, and fat, because you haven't put people in MRI scanners in order to develop your cookies, and we know that the big food companies use brain scanners to do product development, you haven't employed 100 PhD nutritionists to optimize every product through 1,000 focus groups over three decades. We also know you won't use as much salt, sugar, and fat.

So it's per bite of the industrial cookie, I get more salt, sugar, and fat. But because of the processing, the marketing, the coloring, the texture effects, the glycemic index, I eat more of it food. So I get more salt, sugar, fat per mouthful, and I take more mouthfuls. And that's what the...

So it's per bite of the industrial cookie, I get more salt, sugar, and fat. But because of the processing, the marketing, the coloring, the texture effects, the glycemic index, I eat more of it food. So I get more salt, sugar, fat per mouthful, and I take more mouthfuls. And that's what the...

So it's per bite of the industrial cookie, I get more salt, sugar, and fat. But because of the processing, the marketing, the coloring, the texture effects, the glycemic index, I eat more of it food. So I get more salt, sugar, fat per mouthful, and I take more mouthfuls. And that's what the...

those who resist the definition can't seem to grasp is the salt, sugar, and fat are part of the ultra-processing. They are their part and parcel. So in terms of what it teaches us, look, it tells us the products regulate.

those who resist the definition can't seem to grasp is the salt, sugar, and fat are part of the ultra-processing. They are their part and parcel. So in terms of what it teaches us, look, it tells us the products regulate.