Dr. Ciara Kelly

weren't maybe comfortable or brave enough or whatever the word is, and I don't mean to use any pejorative word, they're like brave, that might sound pejorative, but that they lived alone rather than living with someone because they wanted to be accepted.

So that meant being alone.

And I think that's quite heartbreaking, to be honest.

Why would she love you more?

My mother used to say, which is actually terrible when you think about what it would set up in terms of the psyche, I love you more when you're sick.

There's a great... There's an incentive to walk around with like Munchausen's or something.

Do you know what I mean?

It didn't work on me, but you know what I mean.

And so sick is a really positive... There are people who embrace... This is a separate podcast entirely, but there are people who embrace the sick role.

because of the secondary gain they get from the sick role.

So you have to be very careful.

I was a doctor for many, many years.

You've got to be very careful about the secondary gains.

What did I, did I?

Careful.

Be very careful.

I don't know how I said it, but about... Far from that in Greystone.

The secondary gain that you give to somebody for being ill because otherwise you're incentivising them to remain ill.

it reverberated out of the radio and Tommy was talking about his uncle saying that about they should die whatever they should burn in hell Tommy was shaking the whole time he was speaking I was very conscious of a kind of a duty of care scenario yeah no yeah yeah he wanted by the way we didn't like persuade him he wanted to come out he was come I don't mean come out come out and speak yeah yeah

But I was very conscious of trying to safety net him.