Dr. David Spiegel

And for me to be able to evaluate in what way to work with them, because some people can do something like what you did, some less, some not at all, not that many, but some people not at all. But it becomes a kind of immediate object lesson lesson and how much more control we have over our body and how we react to that than we usually give ourselves credit for.

Well, you know, I frankly think the best answer is you are highly experienced in mindfulness, in trying out different ways of being, and yet... For you, and you're telling... Look, I'm a guest on your show. This is your show. It would be fine for you to just say, you know, sorry, Doc, nice try. I don't feel it. And I think you would be honest with your audience in doing that.

Well, you know, I frankly think the best answer is you are highly experienced in mindfulness, in trying out different ways of being, and yet... For you, and you're telling... Look, I'm a guest on your show. This is your show. It would be fine for you to just say, you know, sorry, Doc, nice try. I don't feel it. And I think you would be honest with your audience in doing that.

But you had the experience, you know. Years ago, I don't know if you remember this, but there was a guy named Phil Donahue who had a very popular daytime show. And he invited me as a guest. And it was at a time when it was thought to be dangerous to hypnotize someone in public. You wouldn't do that. Other people might get hypnotized. So this woman I had hypnotized before the show began.

But you had the experience, you know. Years ago, I don't know if you remember this, but there was a guy named Phil Donahue who had a very popular daytime show. And he invited me as a guest. And it was at a time when it was thought to be dangerous to hypnotize someone in public. You wouldn't do that. Other people might get hypnotized. So this woman I had hypnotized before the show began.

And I had her arm up in the air like this. The show opens and I pull the hand down and it pops back up the way yours did. And the camera comes in closer and Donahue says, look, this is just some doctor. I'm Phil Donahue. Keep your hand down. And he pulls her hand down and it pops right back up in the air. And she says, I'm starting to feel like a slot machine, you know?

And I had her arm up in the air like this. The show opens and I pull the hand down and it pops back up the way yours did. And the camera comes in closer and Donahue says, look, this is just some doctor. I'm Phil Donahue. Keep your hand down. And he pulls her hand down and it pops right back up in the air. And she says, I'm starting to feel like a slot machine, you know?

So the fun thing about it is, is that if it's the real deal, it wasn't like you were saying, oh, I'll just keep my hand down. Your hand wanted to go up, right? And that ability to quickly rearrange your mind-body relationship is part of what's so interesting about hypnosis. And you experienced it. So, you know, people can fight it if they want, or they can misrepresent what their experience is.

So the fun thing about it is, is that if it's the real deal, it wasn't like you were saying, oh, I'll just keep my hand down. Your hand wanted to go up, right? And that ability to quickly rearrange your mind-body relationship is part of what's so interesting about hypnosis. And you experienced it. So, you know, people can fight it if they want, or they can misrepresent what their experience is.

But you didn't. You had the experience. And That element of surprise that where people can see, damn, look what's happening to my body. Look what I can do this quickly. I'm already starting therapy there, you know, because I'm showing people that they have more of an ability to control their body than they like to think or than they usually think. And that's a tremendous opportunity.

But you didn't. You had the experience. And That element of surprise that where people can see, damn, look what's happening to my body. Look what I can do this quickly. I'm already starting therapy there, you know, because I'm showing people that they have more of an ability to control their body than they like to think or than they usually think. And that's a tremendous opportunity.

That's a very important point, Jay, because I'm not taking control. Did you feel like I was taking control?

That's a very important point, Jay, because I'm not taking control. Did you feel like I was taking control?

No, I thought I'm a teacher. I'm teaching you how to identify and utilize the abilities you have the way you do when you teach people how to use mindfulness. You're not implanting mindfulness in them. You're showing them, look, you've narrowed your view of who you are and what you are, and I'm going to help you expand it, and I'm going to show you –

No, I thought I'm a teacher. I'm teaching you how to identify and utilize the abilities you have the way you do when you teach people how to use mindfulness. You're not implanting mindfulness in them. You're showing them, look, you've narrowed your view of who you are and what you are, and I'm going to help you expand it, and I'm going to show you –

The beauty in everyday experience and how you can reassess what's important to you in life. And people can be open to that and learn from it or not. But you're teaching them how to explore capacities they have that they may not have known about. And that's what I'm doing with hypnosis. I'm teaching them how to utilize their own ability. You know, we...

The beauty in everyday experience and how you can reassess what's important to you in life. And people can be open to that and learn from it or not. But you're teaching them how to explore capacities they have that they may not have known about. And that's what I'm doing with hypnosis. I'm teaching them how to utilize their own ability. You know, we...

Our major evolutionary advantage as humans is our brain, this three-pound object on the top of our shoulders. It doesn't come with a user's manual. There are a lot of things our brains can do, and that's what you do, teaching people mindfulness, that you can use your brain in ways you hadn't thought of.

Our major evolutionary advantage as humans is our brain, this three-pound object on the top of our shoulders. It doesn't come with a user's manual. There are a lot of things our brains can do, and that's what you do, teaching people mindfulness, that you can use your brain in ways you hadn't thought of.

And if they didn't have the basic ability to do it, it wouldn't work. And the same is true. That's what I'm doing with hypnosis. I'm not projecting anything onto someone. I'm teaching them how to use what they already know. When automobiles were invented some hundred and something years ago, there were a bunch of state laws against windshield wipers. Why?