Dr. Jeffrey Smalldon

And it became wearying at times.

You know, a lot of people think, boy, sitting across from a guy who's killed 33 people, you know, your nerves must have been on end and the adrenaline must have been coursing through you.

But it really wasn't like that.

He greeted me by saying, this is the first day of my first visit there.

I extended my hand and he extended his handcuffed hand.

And I said, hi, Jeff.

And he said, Jeff, I'm John, or you can call me JW if you want to.

That's what a lot of the guards call me.

And then the very next he said was, I know, I know you've come looking for the monster.

Well, you're going to meet the man.

That's how he talked.

You're going to meet the man.

I mean, the grandiosity was something truly.

You're going to meet the man.

So we sat down and he was, I could just see him working.

I could see his mind working and realize how skillfully he disarmed his victims.

He just, for one thing, he just wouldn't stop talking.

And he just controlled the conversation that way.

He wouldn't stop talking.

And, you know, we started talking about mutual interests, football, democratic politics.