Dr. Marc Gafni

And Ken wrote a couple of great books called The Sociable God and Up From Eden, where he took it understandably as a given that

the God that we are reaching towards is ourselves, meaning God is a first-person experience, which is very beautiful.

Tat tvam ase.

Thou art that.

And he was very profoundly enmeshed in that very, very deep Buddhist tradition.

So he had a very deep sense of what we might call God in what we're going to later call God in the first person.

And that's deep.

That's real.

And he was also a very deep student of, you know, together with Irvin Laszlo, right, of systems theory.

And Irvin wrote the kind of epic book in 1972 on systems theory.

And systems theory is the third person.

It's the system, right?

It's the forces of physics and of nature and of... Sacred geometry and harmonics and... And harmonics and mathematics and physics and, you know, the whole thing, the whole systems.

That's the third person.

So...

Ken was very strong as is much of the, you know, much of the contemporary world of spirit, very, very strong in both of those.

But the notion that there's a personal God that talks to you, you know, Ken said to me, he says, I'm, you know, I, I'm with Kant, you know, Kant said that a modern person, you know, is embarrassed to be caught praying, right?

Like who would be caught praying, right?

And so we spent a year or two in very deep, you know, kind of fierce, you know, kind of conversation, contestation was very beautiful.

And there was a certain moment where I remembered a story.