Dr. Marcel Dirsus

Yeah, I think the case of Kim Jong-un in particular is super difficult. Generally speaking, the question is really, what do you want to achieve? Because most of the time, people don't just want to get rid of dictators. They also want some sort of sustainable outcome, right?

Yeah, I think the case of Kim Jong-un in particular is super difficult. Generally speaking, the question is really, what do you want to achieve? Because most of the time, people don't just want to get rid of dictators. They also want some sort of sustainable outcome, right?

Yeah, I think the case of Kim Jong-un in particular is super difficult. Generally speaking, the question is really, what do you want to achieve? Because most of the time, people don't just want to get rid of dictators. They also want some sort of sustainable outcome, right?

Usually a democracy, because oftentimes, what good is it toppling one dictator if that dictator is then replaced by another one? So we know that your best chance of a good outcome happens when you top people through nonviolent protests. So if you can topple these types of tyrants through nonviolent protest, then that tends to work out very well. But there's two problems with that.

Usually a democracy, because oftentimes, what good is it toppling one dictator if that dictator is then replaced by another one? So we know that your best chance of a good outcome happens when you top people through nonviolent protests. So if you can topple these types of tyrants through nonviolent protest, then that tends to work out very well. But there's two problems with that.

Usually a democracy, because oftentimes, what good is it toppling one dictator if that dictator is then replaced by another one? So we know that your best chance of a good outcome happens when you top people through nonviolent protests. So if you can topple these types of tyrants through nonviolent protest, then that tends to work out very well. But there's two problems with that.

The first one is, A, the type of leaders that can be toppled through nonviolent protest don't tend to be the worst of the worst. So somebody like Kim Jong-un is not going to be brought down by peaceful protesters because peaceful protest is essentially impossible in North Korea. There's no free media. You can't access the internet, really.

The first one is, A, the type of leaders that can be toppled through nonviolent protest don't tend to be the worst of the worst. So somebody like Kim Jong-un is not going to be brought down by peaceful protesters because peaceful protest is essentially impossible in North Korea. There's no free media. You can't access the internet, really.

The first one is, A, the type of leaders that can be toppled through nonviolent protest don't tend to be the worst of the worst. So somebody like Kim Jong-un is not going to be brought down by peaceful protesters because peaceful protest is essentially impossible in North Korea. There's no free media. You can't access the internet, really.

There's punishments across generations for people that oppose the regime. And the regime can just use brute force in order to suppress protests. So that's the first problem. So we're stuck in a situation, essentially, where the people closest to power tend to have most of an influence on these leaders, as we discussed.

There's punishments across generations for people that oppose the regime. And the regime can just use brute force in order to suppress protests. So that's the first problem. So we're stuck in a situation, essentially, where the people closest to power tend to have most of an influence on these leaders, as we discussed.

There's punishments across generations for people that oppose the regime. And the regime can just use brute force in order to suppress protests. So that's the first problem. So we're stuck in a situation, essentially, where the people closest to power tend to have most of an influence on these leaders, as we discussed.

So if you were looking for somebody to bring down Kim Jong-un, that person would probably not sit in the White House and also wouldn't be on the streets of Pyongyang, but it'd be one of his generals. It would be a sister or it would be a child. And clearly... that is not the most desirable scenario that we might want.

So if you were looking for somebody to bring down Kim Jong-un, that person would probably not sit in the White House and also wouldn't be on the streets of Pyongyang, but it'd be one of his generals. It would be a sister or it would be a child. And clearly... that is not the most desirable scenario that we might want.

So if you were looking for somebody to bring down Kim Jong-un, that person would probably not sit in the White House and also wouldn't be on the streets of Pyongyang, but it'd be one of his generals. It would be a sister or it would be a child. And clearly... that is not the most desirable scenario that we might want.

So I think when it comes to the most difficult cases, like Kim Jong-un, where something like nonviolent protests are unlikely to work, sanctions are unlikely to work, outsiders are really forced into making some very difficult decisions because oftentimes there are things that we could do, but they are much more risky and they would exact a much larger price, both in terms of blood and in treasure.

So I think when it comes to the most difficult cases, like Kim Jong-un, where something like nonviolent protests are unlikely to work, sanctions are unlikely to work, outsiders are really forced into making some very difficult decisions because oftentimes there are things that we could do, but they are much more risky and they would exact a much larger price, both in terms of blood and in treasure.

So I think when it comes to the most difficult cases, like Kim Jong-un, where something like nonviolent protests are unlikely to work, sanctions are unlikely to work, outsiders are really forced into making some very difficult decisions because oftentimes there are things that we could do, but they are much more risky and they would exact a much larger price, both in terms of blood and in treasure.

And even if outsiders decide to use these means, the outcome is often terrible. So the track record of foreign and post regime change, for example, is abysmal. It's not just Iraq. The overall track record is absolutely tragic.

And even if outsiders decide to use these means, the outcome is often terrible. So the track record of foreign and post regime change, for example, is abysmal. It's not just Iraq. The overall track record is absolutely tragic.