Dr. Matt Walker

But what was interesting in Murray Raskin's studies, when he started to treat patients with the prazosin and tamp down that noradrenaline, one of the other things that returned back to normality was not just that the symptoms dissipated,

their REM sleep started to return with a greater amount.

And so I think it fits very well with this notion that whatever REM sleep that was going on may not necessarily have been electrically or neurochemically

identical to normative REM sleep.

But when you assisted the system with a chemical to bring it back into normality, REM sleep was gifted back to the brain and emotional resolution started to unfold.

Now, I should note that there have been

a number of studies that have replicated the finding.

Some studies have not though.

And so we still need to understand exactly why this is the case.

And there are other therapies that we'll probably discuss in a later episode on dreaming that are as, if not more effective than that drug therapy for repetitive nightmares, that is a psychological intervention rather than a pharmacological intervention.

And that seems to be very effective too.

I think it's absolutely fascinating because that morning time period as well can be, for those who are struggling with sleep, especially difficult.

And you and I have spoken on this podcast series about sort of awakening at night or later in the morning when you really want to be asleep and it's just a struggle to get back.

And as you noted there, he was saying they often come in underslept.

And my suspicion is that they're probably getting sleep at the front end in part because they're heavily medicated, but self-medicating in terms of helping their sleep.

But then of course, because they are asleep, they can't continue to medicate.

So which part of sleep is fragile?

It's those morning hours.

And therefore, if you have something that is a compensatory tool, that is not going to be the trigger of saying, just get back into bed, get under those sheets and sleep.

Sleep doesn't work like that.