Dr. Maya Shankar

But in hindsight, I realized that the fact that I had to inspire organic interest from the outset at all levels of government meant that folks were doing this work because they saw inherent value in it.

But in hindsight, I realized that the fact that I had to inspire organic interest from the outset at all levels of government meant that folks were doing this work because they saw inherent value in it.

And you can't dictate someone to care about something, right?

And you can't dictate someone to care about something, right?

Like no mandate in government can force a person to be excited about stuff.

Like no mandate in government can force a person to be excited about stuff.

And I do feel like this more startup-y approach led to a lot more cultural change in the government and a lot more sustained change in the government.

And I do feel like this more startup-y approach led to a lot more cultural change in the government and a lot more sustained change in the government.

I'll share one story with you, which is that...

I'll share one story with you, which is that...

I remember there was a career civil servant I'd worked with.

I remember there was a career civil servant I'd worked with.

Her name was Rosemary Williams.

Her name was Rosemary Williams.

She had worked at the Department of Defense for decades.

She had worked at the Department of Defense for decades.

And I met her just when she was on the cusp of retirement.

And I met her just when she was on the cusp of retirement.

She was like, oh, I've worked in the government for so long.

She was like, oh, I've worked in the government for so long.