Dr. Paul Turke

previous podcast with peter atia we're good at uh fast fast deaths we're good at avoiding those if something goes wrong you want to be there you want an obstetrician there who has a scalpel on hand if you need it um yeah so so anyway yeah what have you come to believe about the current demographic transition these declining birth rates that we're seeing

previous podcast with peter atia we're good at uh fast fast deaths we're good at avoiding those if something goes wrong you want to be there you want an obstetrician there who has a scalpel on hand if you need it um yeah so so anyway yeah what have you come to believe about the current demographic transition these declining birth rates that we're seeing

Yeah, well, that's sort of what my early interest was as a graduate student. When I went off, I went to Penn State and worked with an anthropologist named Napoleon Chagnon. And he was very much into evolution. He was a cultural anthropologist who was becoming an evolutionary anthropologist. Then I followed him in Northwestern my second year and I had to figure out something to do.

Yeah, well, that's sort of what my early interest was as a graduate student. When I went off, I went to Penn State and worked with an anthropologist named Napoleon Chagnon. And he was very much into evolution. He was a cultural anthropologist who was becoming an evolutionary anthropologist. Then I followed him in Northwestern my second year and I had to figure out something to do.

Yeah, well, that's sort of what my early interest was as a graduate student. When I went off, I went to Penn State and worked with an anthropologist named Napoleon Chagnon. And he was very much into evolution. He was a cultural anthropologist who was becoming an evolutionary anthropologist. Then I followed him in Northwestern my second year and I had to figure out something to do.

So I would go into the library and I got interested in demographic transition. And there was not a really good explanation in my mind for why people in modern settings had decided all of a sudden, you know, they'd switch from we want to have as many babies as we can to we want to have just a couple or in some cases none.

So I would go into the library and I got interested in demographic transition. And there was not a really good explanation in my mind for why people in modern settings had decided all of a sudden, you know, they'd switch from we want to have as many babies as we can to we want to have just a couple or in some cases none.

So I would go into the library and I got interested in demographic transition. And there was not a really good explanation in my mind for why people in modern settings had decided all of a sudden, you know, they'd switch from we want to have as many babies as we can to we want to have just a couple or in some cases none.

And the prevailing ideas out there, the prevailing theory was coming from economists and economic-minded demographers. And their thought was, well... In traditional settings, after you pay this little upfront cost, kids become assets. They make you wealthy, basically. And especially they take care of you and things like that. And so there's no reason to limit reproduction in traditional settings.

And the prevailing ideas out there, the prevailing theory was coming from economists and economic-minded demographers. And their thought was, well... In traditional settings, after you pay this little upfront cost, kids become assets. They make you wealthy, basically. And especially they take care of you and things like that. And so there's no reason to limit reproduction in traditional settings.

And the prevailing ideas out there, the prevailing theory was coming from economists and economic-minded demographers. And their thought was, well... In traditional settings, after you pay this little upfront cost, kids become assets. They make you wealthy, basically. And especially they take care of you and things like that. And so there's no reason to limit reproduction in traditional settings.

But because they lived in modern settings and they probably had kids, they knew kids were expensive in modern settings. And so they were arguing that we would limit the consumption of children, expensive goods, it's likely we would limit the consumption of all other expensive goods. But that didn't make sense to me from an evolutionary point of view.

But because they lived in modern settings and they probably had kids, they knew kids were expensive in modern settings. And so they were arguing that we would limit the consumption of children, expensive goods, it's likely we would limit the consumption of all other expensive goods. But that didn't make sense to me from an evolutionary point of view.

But because they lived in modern settings and they probably had kids, they knew kids were expensive in modern settings. And so they were arguing that we would limit the consumption of children, expensive goods, it's likely we would limit the consumption of all other expensive goods. But that didn't make sense to me from an evolutionary point of view.

First, I didn't trust their data because they would go into these traditional societies and ask hunter-gatherers, why do you want to have so many children? And that would be like asking, you know, why do you breathe? And so I think I thought they probably teased out the answer they wanted, but, you know, I have no way of knowing that.

First, I didn't trust their data because they would go into these traditional societies and ask hunter-gatherers, why do you want to have so many children? And that would be like asking, you know, why do you breathe? And so I think I thought they probably teased out the answer they wanted, but, you know, I have no way of knowing that.

First, I didn't trust their data because they would go into these traditional societies and ask hunter-gatherers, why do you want to have so many children? And that would be like asking, you know, why do you breathe? And so I think I thought they probably teased out the answer they wanted, but, you know, I have no way of knowing that.

But what really troubled me was it didn't make sense from an evolutionary point of view that we had kids in order to eventually economically exploit them. Again, going back to this idea that we had lifespans, maximum lifespans as long as the other apes, and then they gradually increased and doubled because we were doing things useful for our children.

But what really troubled me was it didn't make sense from an evolutionary point of view that we had kids in order to eventually economically exploit them. Again, going back to this idea that we had lifespans, maximum lifespans as long as the other apes, and then they gradually increased and doubled because we were doing things useful for our children.

But what really troubled me was it didn't make sense from an evolutionary point of view that we had kids in order to eventually economically exploit them. Again, going back to this idea that we had lifespans, maximum lifespans as long as the other apes, and then they gradually increased and doubled because we were doing things useful for our children.