Dr. Peter Attia

Are you basically only able to affect that through your interaction with your direct reports and just hope that that's the infusion of culture that then trickles down? Because it's hard to go two levels below your management, and yet the people who probably need this compassion the most are people you're not even going to meet.

Are you basically only able to affect that through your interaction with your direct reports and just hope that that's the infusion of culture that then trickles down? Because it's hard to go two levels below your management, and yet the people who probably need this compassion the most are people you're not even going to meet.

Yeah. The word culture, it's very misunderstood. When you think about the culture that you wanted to bring to the Gates Foundation, I'd like to understand what that was and how successful you think you were able to be. And I say that because you were in an organization where you also had very powerful other present people whose culture was also a part of the organization.

Yeah. The word culture, it's very misunderstood. When you think about the culture that you wanted to bring to the Gates Foundation, I'd like to understand what that was and how successful you think you were able to be. And I say that because you were in an organization where you also had very powerful other present people whose culture was also a part of the organization.

Which is kind of odd. The person who's the decision maker is sitting in the presence of the two most senior people in the company, leaving it to him to make the decision.

Which is kind of odd. The person who's the decision maker is sitting in the presence of the two most senior people in the company, leaving it to him to make the decision.

You were the coach.

You were the coach.

So this brings us up to 2020. And were you at the foundation when COVID hit?

So this brings us up to 2020. And were you at the foundation when COVID hit?

Yeah. Interesting. Let's talk a little bit about COVID. So I've talked before about this idea of the difference between science and advocacy, and I still haven't really wrapped my mind fully around it other than kind of a sense of lost opportunity with COVID. What do I mean by that?

Yeah. Interesting. Let's talk a little bit about COVID. So I've talked before about this idea of the difference between science and advocacy, and I still haven't really wrapped my mind fully around it other than kind of a sense of lost opportunity with COVID. What do I mean by that?

Well, on the one level, there was so many pretty incredible things that happened with respect to the speed with which a vaccine could be developed that really made a difference in terms of mortality for a subset of the population. But a lot of that's overshadowed today by the lingering doubts, the lingering suspicions, the mistakes that were frankly made

Well, on the one level, there was so many pretty incredible things that happened with respect to the speed with which a vaccine could be developed that really made a difference in terms of mortality for a subset of the population. But a lot of that's overshadowed today by the lingering doubts, the lingering suspicions, the mistakes that were frankly made

And my fear is I'm not convinced we're better off today in terms of preparedness for a pandemic than we were in 2019, which seems like an unimaginable statement given what we've been through. Do you think I'm too pessimistic? How do you feel?

And my fear is I'm not convinced we're better off today in terms of preparedness for a pandemic than we were in 2019, which seems like an unimaginable statement given what we've been through. Do you think I'm too pessimistic? How do you feel?

Yep. I concur with all of that. And I do wonder what it will take to restore confidence. Look, we could sit here and talk about mistakes. It might be that the medical community and the scientific community need to be more vocal about acknowledging mistakes. And I do think An enormous mistake, though it's understandable to me why it happened, because so much was happening so fast.

Yep. I concur with all of that. And I do wonder what it will take to restore confidence. Look, we could sit here and talk about mistakes. It might be that the medical community and the scientific community need to be more vocal about acknowledging mistakes. And I do think An enormous mistake, though it's understandable to me why it happened, because so much was happening so fast.

But I believe deep down it was an enormous mistake to be the head of science, to be the head of advocacy. I think having Dr. Fauci as being both of those hats was a cataclysmic error. And it's not about him. No human can do that. A scientist has to be an impartial observer of fact,

But I believe deep down it was an enormous mistake to be the head of science, to be the head of advocacy. I think having Dr. Fauci as being both of those hats was a cataclysmic error. And it's not about him. No human can do that. A scientist has to be an impartial observer of fact,