Dr. Richard Hogan

So what age was Tommy?

50 something?

Fear.

It was in the DSM until 92 or 93, I think.

Yeah, there's so much of what you're saying there, Ciara.

What Tommy heard as a kid, as a 13-year-old kid, that's internalized prejudice.

That internalizes.

And we've all heard things about diet, about our body, about this, about success, about wealth, about intelligence.

And we've internalized those things.

And then when you hear something about sexuality, and I remember Rock Hudson.

I remember that whole scandal, the Rock Hudson scandal.

I remember that as a kid.

And I remember asking, what is AIDS?

I remember hearing, I remember thinking that as a kid and asking, and my brother saying to me, oh, that's someone who protects somebody.

He didn't want me to know what AIDS was.

He was like, that's a person, an aid, like who helps somebody.

And I remember going, I don't think that's it.

And going and trying to figure out what that was.

There was no internet to go off and do it, you know, and figure that out.

And I was just trying to figure that out.