Dr. Richard Hogan

You just don't cry or you just don't get really outraged.

There's an ideology there.

If you have a very strong reaction to anything, I'd always say, have a look at that.

Yeah, what's that about?

What's that about?

bit of our truth about what it is to be us and all the rest of it and what what it is you know to live this internal world that we all live in um to somebody so that you can hear yourself saying what's going on for you and maybe that might be a therapeutic space you know to just to go in there no judgment and just say what's what you how you've been living for so long

You know, I mean, yeah, well, how why did it take you so long?

You know, it's the first time you said it in your life.

And what Tommy actually said at the end of the interview, he kind of felt free for the first time in his life.

Honestly, I think so many of us carry around things that were...

shameful of right i remember like i've carried around dyslexia for years and i'm mildly dyslexic right and i even say that because there's a stigma i despise you now no i'm messing exactly like i may i can't even see why that is a shame but for you it was around for years as a bag of shame and i was an english teacher and i loved english i couldn't understand you know when i was in school how i wouldn't be able to spell a couple of words whatever it was right

or read the line and go on to the next line i'd have to kind of like track it my finger to go to go down there my brother's just like moved ahead and i was kind of looking at going what the hell is going on here yeah what the hell is this about and so i carried that around the shame and i'd meet people in my clinic you know coming in carrying all sorts of shame around stuff

And it's kind of passed on to us, isn't it?

It's about how teachers spoke to you.

Well, it diminishes us and it shrinks down our kind of sense of joy, doesn't it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Guilt is kind of corrective in some ways, as in like, you know, you do something, you're going to go, shit, I shouldn't have done that.

So it's kind of designed to kind of go, I didn't like the way I said that last week.

I shouldn't do that again.

It's kind of protective.