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Dr. Robert Lustig

👤 Speaker
585 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 212: The Dangerous Truth Behind “Sugar Free”!

They are really bad. If you consume one sugared beverage per day, your risk for diabetes goes up by 29%. Wow. Okay. And that's if you have one. If you have two, 58%.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 212: The Dangerous Truth Behind “Sugar Free”!

They are really bad. If you consume one sugared beverage per day, your risk for diabetes goes up by 29%. Wow. Okay. And that's if you have one. If you have two, 58%.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 212: The Dangerous Truth Behind “Sugar Free”!

So this is a big problem. So, you know, that's demonstrating its toxicity at, you know, shall we say medium dose. You know, at low dose, you can handle it. But as soon as you go above that dose, it's a problem. And we have the data for it. And all of these are factored in. These are all econometric analyses. We've shown that sugar is a proximate cause of diabetes.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 212: The Dangerous Truth Behind “Sugar Free”!

So this is a big problem. So, you know, that's demonstrating its toxicity at, you know, shall we say medium dose. You know, at low dose, you can handle it. But as soon as you go above that dose, it's a problem. And we have the data for it. And all of these are factored in. These are all econometric analyses. We've shown that sugar is a proximate cause of diabetes.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 212: The Dangerous Truth Behind “Sugar Free”!

Whenever sugar availability changes in any country, diabetes prevalence changes three years later. And we've also done what's known as advanced Markov modeling where we go into the future and show that when sugar consumption goes down in any country, diabetes levels change and reduce three years later.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 212: The Dangerous Truth Behind “Sugar Free”!

Whenever sugar availability changes in any country, diabetes prevalence changes three years later. And we've also done what's known as advanced Markov modeling where we go into the future and show that when sugar consumption goes down in any country, diabetes levels change and reduce three years later.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 212: The Dangerous Truth Behind “Sugar Free”!

So it's a three-year window between the change in the diet and the change in the metabolic health consequences. We have those data. And the fact that they work both on the way up and on the way down is like, you know, take it to the bank. Now, that's for the sugared beverages. You asked me about diet beverages. I've got one here. Let's look at it. All right. I've covered up the logos.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 212: The Dangerous Truth Behind “Sugar Free”!

So it's a three-year window between the change in the diet and the change in the metabolic health consequences. We have those data. And the fact that they work both on the way up and on the way down is like, you know, take it to the bank. Now, that's for the sugared beverages. You asked me about diet beverages. I've got one here. Let's look at it. All right. I've covered up the logos.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 212: The Dangerous Truth Behind “Sugar Free”!

Oh, I've never seen this before. I wonder what that is. The data now show, I mean, it took a while for these data to come in, but the data now show that the toxicity of one sugared soda equals the toxicity of two diet sodas. Half as bad. Half as bad does not mean good. Half as bad means half as bad. Well, it says zero sugar here, so how can it be bad? Well, because it's bad for a different reason.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 212: The Dangerous Truth Behind “Sugar Free”!

Oh, I've never seen this before. I wonder what that is. The data now show, I mean, it took a while for these data to come in, but the data now show that the toxicity of one sugared soda equals the toxicity of two diet sodas. Half as bad. Half as bad does not mean good. Half as bad means half as bad. Well, it says zero sugar here, so how can it be bad? Well, because it's bad for a different reason.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 212: The Dangerous Truth Behind “Sugar Free”!

So, yes, zero fructose, zero calories. I agree. But that doesn't make it good. It makes it better than the sugared alternative, but it doesn't make it good. Why? Why? Number one, you put something sweet on the tongue. Message goes, tongue to brain, sugar's coming. Message goes, brain to pancreas, sugar's coming, release the insulin. So I still get an insulin release?

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 212: The Dangerous Truth Behind “Sugar Free”!

So, yes, zero fructose, zero calories. I agree. But that doesn't make it good. It makes it better than the sugared alternative, but it doesn't make it good. Why? Why? Number one, you put something sweet on the tongue. Message goes, tongue to brain, sugar's coming. Message goes, brain to pancreas, sugar's coming, release the insulin. So I still get an insulin release?

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 212: The Dangerous Truth Behind “Sugar Free”!

You still get an insulin response. And the more other food you ate, the bigger the insulin response. So you will have an accentuated insulin response because you're exposed to the diet sweetener. This is work from Yanina Pepino, 2013 at Wash U St. Louis. And it's been corroborated multiple times since.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 212: The Dangerous Truth Behind “Sugar Free”!

You still get an insulin response. And the more other food you ate, the bigger the insulin response. So you will have an accentuated insulin response because you're exposed to the diet sweetener. This is work from Yanina Pepino, 2013 at Wash U St. Louis. And it's been corroborated multiple times since.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 212: The Dangerous Truth Behind “Sugar Free”!

Because insulin's a bad guy. So we always talk about glucose being a bad guy in terms of diabetes, and it is, of course. But insulin's a bad guy too. Glucose causes small vessels... to be dysfunctional, causes endothelial cell dysfunction. It causes high blood pressure because it causes those small vessels to constrict.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 212: The Dangerous Truth Behind “Sugar Free”!

Because insulin's a bad guy. So we always talk about glucose being a bad guy in terms of diabetes, and it is, of course. But insulin's a bad guy too. Glucose causes small vessels... to be dysfunctional, causes endothelial cell dysfunction. It causes high blood pressure because it causes those small vessels to constrict.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 212: The Dangerous Truth Behind “Sugar Free”!

It interferes with nitric oxide, which is one of the things that relaxes the blood vessel. and it will basically reduce blood flow to specific organs. So high glucose is not good for you, and it's bad for small vessel disease. And that's why diabetics get retinopathy, nephropathy, neuropathy, kidney disease, nerve damage, and eye disease.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 212: The Dangerous Truth Behind “Sugar Free”!

It interferes with nitric oxide, which is one of the things that relaxes the blood vessel. and it will basically reduce blood flow to specific organs. So high glucose is not good for you, and it's bad for small vessel disease. And that's why diabetics get retinopathy, nephropathy, neuropathy, kidney disease, nerve damage, and eye disease.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 212: The Dangerous Truth Behind “Sugar Free”!

But insulin is also a problem because what insulin does is it causes cell growth. Insulin is a growth factor and it causes vascular smooth muscle growth like in your coronary arteries and it causes glandular growth. So it is one of the primary drivers of heart disease and cancer.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 212: The Dangerous Truth Behind “Sugar Free”!

But insulin is also a problem because what insulin does is it causes cell growth. Insulin is a growth factor and it causes vascular smooth muscle growth like in your coronary arteries and it causes glandular growth. So it is one of the primary drivers of heart disease and cancer.