Dr. Shoshana Ungerleider

But your work shows us that there's so much more beneath the surface.

And you've alluded to this a bit.

What are some of the emotional or social reasons people might reject vaccines?

Wow.

Thank you for connecting the dots between this very, I would say, American idea of thinking about the individual and personal choice to thinking broadly about community health and how we tend to frame public health.

And I want to come back to something that you alluded to, and that is for many parents,

Making health care decisions is deeply tied to love, to identity, and a desire to do what's best for their children.

How does that intention sometimes lead people down a path of mistrust?

Yeah.

And further, we aren't necessarily taught how to communicate effectively with patients in our medical training, I would say.

And so building on that, you've said that how we talk to people matters just as much as what we say.

So what common mistakes from your perspective do healthcare professionals like me or even well-meaning friends make when trying to change someone's mind about this?

Yeah.

And so in terms of how to have those kinds of conversations, we often talk about vaccines in the context of a scientific framework and discuss the data.

But many people respond more to stories.

Why is that?

And how can those of us who care about public health use storytelling more effectively?

Yeah.

I want to zoom out a little bit, Jennifer, and I know that you've studied this issue across political and cultural lines.

What surprised you most about how different communities form their beliefs about vaccines and really medical care in general?