Dr. Steven Hassan

And that is for most of society to function, we have to agree on things that aren't real or rather realities that are imagined so that we can function together, right?

Like a traffic light is a society agreeing on something that is not real.

We go, the red light stops us.

It doesn't stop us, but we all agree that we will stop.

Yeah, but we all have to sort of imagine that the thing has happened or hasn't happened or, you know, the way people go quiet in certain spaces.

We all agree to be quiet in the space.

So it's like, it's a weird thing because

It feels like we need to be able to do this as humans so that we can form societies.

But now you're saying we also have to be careful of when we do it because then the society we form is a cult.

You know that nobody's forcing you or guilt tripping you.

I genuinely don't mean this facetiously.

I mean like many people who are in cults go, no, I'm not forced to be there.

Their families will say- I didn't think I was forced in the moonies.

So that's what I'm saying is like now it becomes this weird world where you're saying, I love scuba diving.

Now, I don't think scuba diving is a cult, but I'm saying-

We don't think we're in a cult when we're in a cult and we don't

think we're not in a cult and we're not in a cult.

So then when are we in a cult and when are we not in a cult?

No, first I want to know how Steve became leader.

I need to know how I go from, I don't want to be here to welcome to my haram.