Dr. Tyna Moore

50 to 80, 50 to 80, especially walking into winter. So every single late summer, early fall, my entire family starts on vitamin C, zinc, and D. I've been doing that for decades. It was really ironic because in 2020, I was not allowed to talk about that without fear of being deplatformed. And I was like, but we've been doing this forever. Like I'm not talking about any particular virus.

Like this is just how we don't get upper respiratory disease. So vitamin C, zinc and D. Yeah, 50 to 80, I think is a good, nice number. And I think most people taking around 5,000 IUs a day depends on how much sun you get. I actually find that as my health improves, my D goes up. So again, because I think it's related to inflammation.

So I haven't really dosed vitamin D much at all in the past couple of, probably the last two winters. I've been a little lazy about it, but my D still remains.

Oh, I get out in the sun every single day. Morning sun, midday sun, and late afternoon sun. All three different types of sun. Because I'm getting different rays and having a different impact. But I live in Oregon. So it's like only three months out of the year that I get to do that. And then I try to travel as much as I can in the winter.

I actually try to bank my D. So I try to get as tan as humanly possible by the end of summer. Although that is causing me some skin damage. And I'm feeling it at age 50. I'm starting to see the signs. I'm like, I think I need some lasers. Yeah. Somebody to resurface this. But I always say I'd rather die tan than die of all of the vitamin D deficiency related cancers.

You can do it at any age. You can do it at any age.

Well, metabolic health, just this most simplistic definition of metabolism is that when you take in calories in whatever form, in carbohydrates, fats, or proteins, that your body will hopefully metabolize them into cellular energy. in its most basic form and convert them into the building blocks that we need inside our body. So some of it gets converted to energy.

Yeah, and there's a few more labs. Let me just quickly mention. Well, let me say this first. Osteopenia and osteoporosis are just metabolic dysfunction of your bones. It's literally diabetes of the bones and osteoarthritis is diabetes of the joints. So people don't realize that that's all part of this.

So if you're suddenly plagued with a bunch of, you know, degenerative joint disease in your middle age, ironically, as your waist circumference is expanding, that is the insulin. actually impacting your joints and leptin and the whole signaling cascade getting screwed up. This is one of the reasons I love GLP-1 so much. So that's a whole other thing.

When you go in for your yearly physical, you're going to get a comprehensive metabolic panel. So they're going to be looking at your liver enzymes. If those are elevated, it means you've got the start of fatty liver. And what often happens, it's completely been normalized and your doctor will say, you've got a little fatty liver, but that's okay. It's not okay.

There's no version of fatty liver that's okay at all. So if you see elevated liver enzymes, you're having some activity in your liver. It doesn't mean your liver is diseased. It means your liver cells are active and they are secreting this enzyme to let you know your liver's being a little, it's got a little stress on it. it's probably fatty infiltrate. That comes along with metabolic dysfunction.

And then the other thing is your lipids, your cholesterol, your LDL, your HDL, your triglycerides. If your cholesterol and your triglycerides equal each other, you are in trouble. So let's say your cholesterol is creeping up at 220 and your trigs are at 120, you are in trouble and essentially your liver is pickling. It's not a good sign. Your lipids are off.

Now lipids can get off because of thyroid dysfunction and because of hormonal dysfunction, but most notably it's due to metabolic dysfunction. So I remember I had a fellow student in chiropractic college. I was like the token naturopathic doctor in the chiropractic college. So like all the dudes would come up and be like, hey, Tina, can you explain this to me?

And I understood labs really like a ninja as myself. So I was like, yeah, this guy shows up and he's super fit. He's Korean and he's super fit, very well muscled, probably the best adjuster in our school, like fast and really into martial arts. And like, just so he would take his shirt off and you were like, damn, that guy's in good shape. His trigs were off the chart.

His cholesterol was creeping up and... Like off the chart, you know, like what would that look like? It was in the 200s. I mean, it was not good for him. I was like, I mean, I remember looking at his labs and him being like, what is going on here? He also had elevated LDL and low HDL, right? That's not good. We don't want high LDL.

I'm not worried about these lipids causing heart disease the way that we have been traditionally taught, but we still can look at them in correlation to one another and see trends. So we don't want high LDL and low HDL. And... I said, what are you doing? Are you like secretly an alcoholic? And I don't know it. And he said, no, I don't drink hardly at all. And I said, well, what are you doing?

And he was getting a soda every day. He was going to Carl's Jr. and getting his lunch at Carl's Jr., which I was like, what are you doing? So back to what we were talking about. Sometimes you can really mask the metabolic dysfunction. That's what I was saying. This is why waist circumference is really so important in anybody of Asian descent, because We do not want that.

You guys can have atrocious labs and still have really great body composition. So there's a, there's trouble brewing. It was soda. He was drinking soda. And so then he switched to diet because he thought he, I wasn't clear enough. I was like, don't drink the fricking soda, but he switches to diet. They still look bad, but they actually looked a little bit better. And not that I'm a Carl's Jr.

and soda every day, but he was eating well for breakfast and dinner, seemingly. So anyway, that's just a great example. So you don't want your LDL above 100 and you don't want your HDL below 45. We want these in good ratios to one another.

Some of it gets reformatted into new proteins, which is what all of our organ systems are made up of. And in some of it, you know, the fat goes down the right pathways and we have myelination around our nerves, we have the building blocks of our brain and cholesterol and our steroid hormones. So the idea is that that system would work efficiently.

Yeah. I was going to say, I think they're protective.

But we need a couple players in place working well, like insulin, insulin sensitivity, insulin signaling, we need those metabolic pathways to be optimized. And unfortunately, in US adults, we're looking at, you know, 2018 data showed that 93, 94% of US adults have busted metabolic health. So we're looking at a whole group of individuals in large are metabolically unhealthy.

Yeah, I think of it similarly. Like if something's a little off, I'm not terribly worried. I look at trends. I'm more interested in the trend. And I'm more interested in what the other lab markers are saying in conjunction. And then I'm more interested in how that individual is living their life. So this reminds me of something I saw. It was actually during the past few years.

And it was a doctor I follow who's really into metabolic health on Twitter. And he was actively seeing patients during the pandemic. And

he basically threw up some lab values and it had like hemoglobin a1c a c-reactive protein and you know a couple other markers and he said you know you guys consider this normal and this patient's having a really hard time in hospital with covid we are not the same it was something like that and basically what he was saying was like in conjunction all of these together being a little bit off little bit off little bit off little bit off that is your typical middle-aged male

in America with a little bit of belly fat, just a little bit of a dad bod, like just a little bit off is enough to put you into this really pro-inflammatory state, which would make you susceptible to all kinds of things, including what we've just been dealing with.

So that was his point was like, you guys look at this and brush it off and say, oh, this is just normal because it has been normalized, right? But that doesn't mean this is ideal or optimal. And he's like, we are not the same because all of that looks like a hot mess.

Yeah. And I remember like turning to my husband and I was like, your lips look a little bit like this. Maybe you should listen to me. You know, like that middle age, you know, it's easy to neglect it, but it's hard to see it, especially as a man, because you can really sort of pack it on throughout that torso, especially guys that are taller. You don't see it as much. You wear it well, right?

But it's, I'm telling you that waist circumference is...

No, because all that's really inexpensive and really easy to get a hold of. Like you're talking about more advanced lipid panels and some other fancy stuff, but just for your average American, you're going to get a comprehensive metabolic panel, which is going to have your lipid, I'm sorry, your, uh,

liver enzymes and you're going to have your cholesterol and lipids done that's just part of annual physical exam so you can easily just ask hey can we add on the d can we add on the c reactive protein can we add you know you don't necessarily need the sed rate but it's nice to have in conjunction and so you don't miss the inflammation and you can add on the serum fasting insulin

That's a pretty complete package. It's not a terribly huge expense. It's something that people can do because I think people get intimidated in this. I see this all the time in my community. They're looking at the biohackers and the influencers online and it's hardcore.

You know, there's a lot of guys that are young and a lot of women that are young that are kind of sitting in your age group that are starting to dabble with this and taking their health really seriously. But a lot of this feels really hardcore to a lot of people.

And I'm over here dealing with patients who just more in reality, like these folks just want to live well and they're not necessarily concerned about having like a perfect body composition. They just want to be happy and healthy. Yeah. And so like take what you have already that your insurance is covering on your annual and like let's just add a few factors and learn how to use it. Yeah. Yeah.

And so what that means is that they are sequestering their calories into their fat cells. They are having hyperglycemia or high blood sugars, which is causing a lot of issues. Basically, high blood sugar will cause...

caramelizing like your cellular layers literally caramelize in the face of extreme sugars and insulin is being cranked out of the pancreas in an attempt to regulate all this and insulin is pro-grow which is awesome when you're trying to build muscle and it's not so awesome when you've got cancer happening.

So it's an anabolic steroid, but it's not always working in our favor when we are bathing in it, when we're swimming in it. So humans right now, and we've exported this across the world, so humans are swimming in excess blood sugar and excess insulin, and it's causing them to be sick, fat, and die early from a whole variety of different disease processes.

The big one that they'll get ran on their general yearly exam is a fasting glucose because that's part of a comprehensive metabolic panel. All that looks at is a snapshot in time during the moment when they had their blood drawn. Where was their fasting glucose? And when that number gets to 120, you have magically arrived at type 2 diabetes. And they say, you know, you have type 2 diabetes.

And I'm over here saying... We could have done something 15 years ago if you ran some other labs or you just paid attention. But we've normalized it in our society. So that's the big one that most people are only looking at. That's the only one they're getting.

The problem with that is if you have aberrant cortisol surges in the morning because you're stressed out or you have a very stressful life, that's going to surge your glucose as well. So you can have aberrantly high cortisol. fasting glucose in the morning. And it's just because your cortisol is off the charts.

And so an example is I, you know, I now I use a CGM or a continuous glucose monitor, but I used to prick my finger. My mentor 30 years ago was having everybody buy the little home glucose monitors.

pricking their finger at various times during the day but especially in the morning and I remember when I was in bankruptcy single mom trying to build my practice stressed out of my mind and I remember my morning glucose running at about a hundred for months I also wasn't sleeping at all because I was in such shambles financially that I couldn't sleep I was terrified

And I had a little girl and I was trying to keep my dogs and my family together. And it was 100 consistently. And I knew that was my cortisol, but had nothing to do with my true glucose signaling. But that cortisol, that high cortisol will drive you into insulin resistance as well. That's another factor to consider.

So a morning cortisol is really helpful to look at in conjunction with a morning AM fasting glucose.

No, just blood tests.

Yeah, just ask your doctor for an AM cortisol and a fasting glucose because the glucose is going to be on there anyway because they're looking at a comprehensive metabolic panel. A hemoglobin A1C is a three-month marker of how sugared up your red blood cells are. So it's a nice marker to have. And let's go back to the glucose. I want that at or below 90. 90 is the number.

If you're at 90, something is starting to go a little haywire. But if you have that AM cortisol, you can gauge it. And what I want that as, that depends. I'm not going to give you straight numbers on that, but... If it's high and it's on the high end of normal, you're probably driving up your AM glucose with that cortisol. You're probably stressed the F out and you need to reevaluate your life.

And you're probably not sleeping well.

Mine runs a little bit high, but it's usually in conjunction with how stressed out I am too. So I feel like there's a cortisol player piece in there. I'm not sure exactly, but the more stressed out I am, the higher my A1C goes. So the A1C is a more, so if we're looking at fasting glucose, that's like, okay, Susan, that's where you were that morning.

And let's admit not having any food, not having any coffee and trying to drive across town to get your blood drawn by 10 a.m. is kind of stressful. You know, that's for me, that's not like the ideal way I start my day. Totally. So there's that. So that glucose is the snapshot in time is what I tell patients your A1C is the long term marker.

So folks do have a lot of times folks will have a great normal blood glucose, fasting glucose, but their A1C is high. And I'm like, you've been cheating. You know, something is awry or something's off because that's the three-month marker. It's a little bit more sensitive look into how they've been behaving the past three months. And again, it can be off for various reasons.

But I like that at or below 5.5. I think 5.5 is where I draw the line. Another marker I like to look at is fasting insulin. And not a lot of doctors will run that. In fact, a lot of doctors will give you a lot of grief if you ask for it. They're like, you're not diabetic. I'm like, yeah, but most people are on the way. So maybe we should all check that.

So fasting insulin, I like between two and five. Below two or close to two is actually a sign of pretty severe burnout. And it's not great. I used to run at one to two when I was really, really burned out. And I've been there. It sucks. You're not even making any insulin.

Yeah. It's, it can, I'm just, that's a little bit not, I mean, some people say, oh, that's fine. I'm like, I don't know. Most people feel like when they're down there, like in general, like I felt like all the time. And then, you know, above five, we don't want that. So we want a fasting insulin. I have seen insulin though.

Insulin's really sensitive to where your other hormones are at and it's insensitive to your estrogen. It's sensitive to your cortisol. So not to say that's an excuse to ride with an elevated insulin, but we got to look further beyond that. We don't just stop there.

If that's elevated, if those three things are off, yes, lifestyle intervention is 100%, but also I think a prudent doctor should look a little further and consider how old is this person? Is it a woman who's walking into menopause? What are the other factors? What are some other markers I like?

I love running a high sensitivity C-reactive protein that just gives us, it's a nonspecific marker for inflammation. It doesn't tell us where the inflammation is. It just tells us if they're inflamed. And I think that's nice to have. I like to run a SED rate as well because it gives us a little bit different look at inflammation.

And so between those, I'll see high SED rates and low C-reactive proteins or vice versa. you know, I want to know, are they inflamed? That's at the end of the day, are we dealing with an inflamed body?

Everyone should run a C-reactive protein. SED rates are cheap. SED rates are really cheap too. Uh, so I think that Both.

I run both.

Because you can miss inflammation by one being low for whatever reason and the other one's super high. And you're like, okay, we got to fire.

It's a sedimentation rate.

Yeah. So it's a marker of your red blood cells. Got it. What else?

ESR is another erythro sedimentation rate. It's cheap. I think it's a very inexpensive add-on. The other thing I'd add is get your labs ran through. I always use lab co-ops in my practice so patients could get labs. If they tried to run it through their insurance, it was going to be thousands. And if I ran them, it was like 200 bucks. So there's so many great options now to get your blood done.

There's Kits you can order. There's so many things you can do at home. Blood spot tests. Just take control of that and manage that because sending that stuff off through your insurance is potentially going to land you with a massive bill that is so much bigger than what it would have cost you to just pay out of cash. And I also have never, ever... trusted using my insurance for anything.

And so I do everything I can out of pocket. Even when I was broken in bankruptcy, I was paying for things out of pocket because I just don't trust the system entirely. They don't, my insurance doesn't need to see my lab work, you know, my lab works fine, but that's between me and the lab. Um, that's just me putting on my tinfoil hat, but I've been that way decades before 2020 happened. Um,

I think vitamin D is really important. Vitamin D can tell us a lot. It's really hard to get someone's vitamin D up if they have a lot of adipose tissue on them and if they're inflamed. So if they're rocking a lot of inflammation, D won't come up. And it's the 250H vitamin D. It just won't come up, but they might have a high 125.

So these are extra add-ons, but vitamin D can be quite inexpensive and Right now, I have no idea why, but the powers that be in the medical establishment are saying we don't need to run vitamin Ds on people anymore. It's like they cannot make up their mind, but we know that people had significantly poorer outcomes with COVID when their vitamin D was low.

So really get your vitamin D ran, pay out of pocket for that. I think it's what, like 50 bucks, it's worth it. So that's an important one just to have around because there's just so much correlation to things that we don't want happening with low vitamin D.

We want to know where that's at, especially if you're a person of color and you have darker skin and you have darker melanocytes, you're going to not probably be making as much vitamin D in that 20 minutes outside that I would be.

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.

Strength training. Build muscle. Focus on muscle. In fact, I just told my husband the other day, I'm like, you're just wasting all these peptides I'm spending money on because you're not in the gym. Exactly. Right. Really. Don't waste the opportunity. Strength train. Build the muscle. Eat the good food. Like I said, there is a potential. Well, not a potential. They have piles of studies on this.

There is a neuroplasticity that occurs on the GLP-1s, meaning your brain is wiring new pathways and learning new behaviors and hardwiring it in. So why not take that opportunity while you're having a little bit of appetite suppression? There's also this onus of responsibility. People get back in the driver's seat. A lot of people describe it as like, oh, I feel in control again.

And I'm not just in control of my eating. They're in control of their alcohol. They're in control of their smoking. They're in control of all these vices. Those are some other big industries that maybe turned off my Instagram.

They're studying it for alcohol cessation, alcohol abuse syndrome.

The hedonic noise.

Yes.

You can chew through it, as I call it. You can definitely override it.

Right. Right. Right. taken the peptide away, they're just going to crash and burn. And then they are going to have muscle loss. There is real muscle loss happening. I'm not saying it's not happening. And there is real side effects happening. I'm not negating that. I just think it's a dosing and management issue.

Well, I think HRT is critical and I've been using it in my patients for decades. And when that Women's Health Initiative study came out decades ago saying estrogen was dangerous, those of us who actually read the study, again, people aren't reading studies before they start vilifying everything. That study showed estrogen and progestins.

Progestins are fake progesterone and they will sit on the cell and they will not have the same impact as progesterone. And that's really dangerous. So we use progesterone, natural, real, bioidentical progesterone to offset any issues with estrogen. So I don't like using unmitigated estrogen alone. I like having a progesterone on board.

So anyway, those of us who read the study 20 years ago were like, we're going to keep using it. And we've been prescribing it ever since. And our patients are very happy on their hormone replacement therapy. I feel terrible because there's a whole generation of women who got severely screwed over. And this is why.

As we go into those years and our estrogen starts to wane, not even talking about progesterone, which is a neurohormone and we need it. But as our estrogen starts to wane, a couple of things happen that are really, really bad. Number one, we start to become more insulin resistant and we start to become more metabolically compromised, period. It's going to happen to all of us as our estrogen wanes.

Number two, our fat cells start to act differently. Our stem cells start preferentially turning into adipose tissue, which is fat tissue. And our fat tissue starts to redistribute itself into weird places. That's why we all turn into the sort of, they call it the gynoid shape, which is that belly with the skinny legs and arms.

Whereas we used to have, you know, the butts and hips, we start to get more of a male figure, which is that middle section, the middle age middle. and the skinnier arms and legs. And estrogen also helps with, to some degree, there's a mechanism where it helps with muscle protein synthesis. So we start to lose muscle, even with our best efforts.

Our tendons and ligaments, that was my world, was regenerative orthopedics. Our tendons and ligaments start to become brittle and friable, and they They, I started getting, that's how I really knew I needed to double down on the estrogen. I just kept getting injured and injured and injured in all of my workouts. And I was like, what the hell is going on here? So this is a disaster.

And I've always told my patients, stay on this side of the curve, meaning start the hormones, test the hormones and start the hormones way before you think you need them. Because once you're on the other side of it, it's looking like from the studies that I've been reading, I've been really diving into the musculoskeletal component because, again, that's my world.

The pain component, there's a whole arsenal of impacts that estrogen has on our pain that they're just discovering and putting together, which is so cool. Because I've known this for decades with patients and I just didn't have the data to put my finger on it. I just had patient outcomes to prove it, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

Estrogen on the other side, especially after all the adipose tissue has laid itself down, because women will become, as I said, more insulin resistant, more metabolically compromised, and usually more obese. It just adds up, right? Like 60 some percent of postmenopausal women are obese.

So in this country, I don't know where that stat came from, but I heard somebody say it, who's an obesity doctor. And I looked it up and there is some version of that. I found like close percentages on either side, but it's a pretty significant number. Anyway, on the other side of that, estrogen, over here, estrogen's protective. It's got protective benefits to our cardiovascular system.

It's got protective benefits to our joints even. Over here, it might actually harm. Once people are over that hump, especially if they've laid down a lot of fat and they're metabolically pretty severely compromised. And I've seen this in patients. Estrogen just can go rogue. So it actually, over here, it causes vasodilation and it helps your vessels stay open and patent.

Over here, it can cause vasoconstriction.

Dementia, over here, it's protective against dementia. Over here, it might actually cause dementia to get worse. Over here, it's protective to your knee joints. Over here, it might make your knees worse. So- This whole generation of women who got bamboozled by this stupid Women's Health Initiative study 20 years ago have completely been screwed over.

Whereas I've been taking estrogen since... I've been taking progesterone since I was in my 30s. I've been taking estrogen since I was in my mid-40s. Like... I'm not messing around. I know what my mentors have all taught me, that I've all been doing hormone replacement forever and ever in practice.

And you get too, and I've seen this clinically, you get too far on the other side and I would put those women on hormone replacement therapy and it just, all bets are off how it's going to go. It really sucks. Over here, like if you started gaining belly fat, estrogen can really help with that because that's, again, that's where the fat wants to redistribute when you start losing estrogen.

Over here, you might have a real problem. This is why I think GLP-1s are such a wonderful tool in this tool belt because these women need help over here. And I think the adipose tissue and the metabolic dysfunction is what's driving the potential deleterious effects of estrogen. And we need to clean it up. And what's going to clean it up? Yes, lifestyle, of course.

But also, can we bring something in that might actually really help reset that metabolic health and really get them dialed in and get that inflammatory adipose tissue off of their bodies so we can apply the hormones they need? This is where I think GLP-1s are like a godsend, potentially.

So it's kind of this like middle A, it's like this triad of GLP-1s, HRT, and strength training that I think are just At least the HRT and the strength training, in my opinion, are non-negotiable. The GLP-1 is up for discussion. But in my world, I think as long as the patient doesn't have any outstanding contraindications, I am probably going to suggest it. And then it's a risk tolerance thing.

And then we dose appropriately so we don't induce any side effects. So it's not a miserable existence on it. There's no need to be miserable on your Ozempic.

testosterone is awesome it's really awesome i've done a whole series of like educational content around testosterone but and it's great for pain too so is estrogen but some people are gonna aromatize like you have this aromatase enzyme that lives in your belly fat specifically and i am one of those people if i take too much testosterone it aromatizes into estrogen and in the fat it

that aromatase enzyme causes testosterone to convert into estrone, not estradiol. And in the brain, it converts into estradiol from what I understand. And so depending on how your aromatase enzyme is behaving, and some people just have a lot of it, then it's going to potentially turn it into estrone. Estrone is the estrogen that's highest in menopausal women.

And I don't have any great data on this, but something, this is what I have been like engrossed in the past three months is trying to figure out, I think estrone is what is potentially causing a lot of these, you know, your menopausal issues. I don't think estrone's the most favorable type of estrogen, but I don't have any data to support that yet.

But what I have found when I'm looking at estrogen and adipocytes, those are your fat cells, how it behaves in your fat, estrone maybe isn't the best. So I used to rely on testosterone to convert into estrogen for women, and a lot of doctors believe that, and I believed that, but I'm starting to wonder, depending on their belly fat situation... that might not be the best answer.

Now, if you don't have any belly fat, it's probably not as problematic. But for me, when I first went on testosterone, I got really lean in the midsection and my abs looked great. And I was like, woo. And then over time, I started turning into a little apple shape and my pain started roaring. And I was like, something is wrong. And my estrone was super high.

And you think it was converted from the testosterone. So how do people find out if that's happening to them? You test. You can test. And there's different tests that are There's blood tests. That's a standard of care. I know a lot of people poo-poo on the Dutch test, but the Dutch test shows pathways, which I think is cool and that's helpful. So it just depends.

But relying solely on testosterone, I don't think is it. I think estrogen is wonderful. I think testosterone is wonderful. And I think progesterone is wonderful. And I think I think of all of these as like a symphony. We need all the instruments, right? And I think of peptides the same way. We don't just use GLP-1s at super high doses as a monotherapy and hope for the best.

I think we use the symphony.

I know.

Well, it's not even that. It's just, I mean, I got out of practice in 2018 because I was burned out. I still take patients here and there by referral, but I don't have, I don't have like an open door. Yeah. If I begged you, would you take me on? Yes, of course. Okay, please. And then, no, I'm serious. I have a course.

So I made a course because I really wanted to get my brain down into the internet in case anything ever happened to me. Because this de-platforming by Instagram, well, it wasn't the first. I mean, I've been getting targeted since 2020. And so I was like, I'm going to put my brain down. How do I go about

patient care from a comprehensive point of view and so I made a course for clinicians that I let the general public into so if people are interested they can find it on my website and I have a free four-part video series that takes people through a lot of the information that we're kind of just touching on and leads them into that if they're interested in buying the course and for now the course is open to the public

Right. The appropriate dose for the patient.

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits & Hustle. Crush it.

They're both peptides, but they're not at all the same. They don't do the same things in the body. No. They both may have some anti-inflammatory and some regenerative impacts, but they have different mechanisms. What does semoralin do? That's a growth hormone, I believe, releasing hormone peptide. So that'll help you... Your growth hormone declines as you age.

And back when I was starting practice, you could still prescribe patients growth hormone, but they would get all pink and puffy. And we don't want to crank growth hormone. So a lot of people, I think, probably in their maybe 50s and 60s, if they've been going to longevity doctors for a long time, probably got some growth hormone. at some point. But the FDA put a snafu on that.

And so when I got into practice, I was licensed as a naturopathic doctor in 2008. And my mentor was like, do not prescribe growth hormone. You will get in trouble with the FDA. So I never prescribed it. But I knew people that still were, and I knew doctors that were still taking it or putting their patients on it. And those people would get pink and puffy.

And then came peptides many years later, which would help support your natural pulse of growth hormone at the appropriate times. GLP-1s support natural pulsing of insulin at the appropriate times. They actually work on your pancreas to help heal the pancreas and support natural release of insulin when needed.

And also on the cellular level, they help the cells, if you will, in the kindergarten version, hear it better. They help the tissues respond to insulin better. And that's just but one mechanism.

If they've had an injury, I'll use it when someone's really burned out. I'll use it when someone's trying to alter body composition and they just can't get up on it. So this is a great time, I think, as we hit middle age, you know, when people are like, okay, I'm lifting weights, I'm doing all the things, but I'm just not having that anabolic response to the work I'm putting in anymore.

we can put them on bioidentical hormone replacement and estrogen and testosterone are going to be supportive to muscle protein synthesis. But sometimes we need to get that growth hormone up a little bit. And so there might be a myriad of reasons. Somebody may have gone through a terrible illness and they're just fried on the other side of it.

Long COVID, I'm not saying it's a specific treatment for that, but I think of these post-viral syndromes and people coming out the other side of a big womp with a virus, that might be a time to give them a leg up. But we cycle them and we pulse them. We aren't just putting people on them forever and saying, hey, good luck.

We're using it as part of a comprehensive protocol and we're making sure that we're checking off all the boxes and we are making sure that we aren't cranking them up on especially one thing alone. I mean, imagine going on just estrogen or just testosterone or just progesterone only. You'd mess up the whole system, right?

They're a little bit different, yeah, but they both work similarly in that we're trying to get a good pulse and activity out of some growth hormone.

It doesn't unless – so what's happening is – people are cranking the dose into crazy high levels in the standard dosing. In the standard, you know, big pharma pen version, people are going up to these really high... And some people need that, though.

Right. Well... So peptides are going to work or not. I mean, it's all individualized. Not everything works for everyone. But also, you get much better results when somebody's metabolically optimized. So if you were to come in and take a peptide, we would be able to likely keep, or hormone for that matter, any hormone. If you walked into my office, I'd be like, oh, this is going to be easy.

This is like, you've got good muscle mass. I can tell you're doing all the things. Your skin's glowing. You have good vitality. Wow. I'm like, should I pay you? That was for free. I didn't pay her to say anything. Well, you take care of yourself, you know? I try. So a little bit of hormone, a little bit of peptide is likely going to have a really powerful impact on you.

And there's other people who are really not very well metabolically optimized, and peptides don't work as well on them. Do we still use them? Yes, we probably need a higher dose. And it gets a little muckier. It's not as clean and easy on my end.

That gets tricky because I don't want to get in trouble with my board or anyone else. But I'll tell you what I do. I'll tell you what I do. First, I'm going to run labs, obviously, and see where we're at with everything. Second, I'm going to do a very in-depth analysis of what their lifestyle is like because if they're fucking around with a bunch of alcohol and they're eating, you know, Right.

Right. Right. And then I'm not going to ever put anybody on anything forever. I think that that's the problem is all of these potentially are pro-grow. And I'm conservative in my opinion, taking something like PPC-157 even all the time every day. I think that's a bit of a danger. I think we want to cycle those, right? We want to go on them and come off of them.

We want to use them as we need and come off of them. But I'm conservative with use. And I'm also concerned about all of these, including GLP-1s, about receptor sensitivity. Are we going to basically, any cell that gets bombarded with a peptide or hormone or anything for that matter is going to start cleaving off receptors.

And so you're going to start, the cells are no longer going to hear what we're doing for it. They're not going to hear the hormone in the system anymore. And so we have to start using higher and higher doses. I don't like that cycle. I think that gets really messy. And so I'm looking for folks who are really well optimized. Those are much better candidates, I think, for peptides.

Do the other folks out there need it? I mean, the argument I get all the time when I say this for people is, well, you know, 70% of Americans are obese or overweight and... you know, 94%... 2018 data showed close to 94% were cardiometabolically busted. So what about them? And I'm like, here's what I say.

We use peptides whilst they're getting their lifestyle in order because it does give you a leg up and some people need a leg up. So that's where I come back to this obesity conversation and, oh, is it the easy way out? Well, why wouldn't we give somebody a leg up? Why wouldn't we give somebody the opportunity to have a window open where it's actually inducing some neuroplasticity

And they can make the appropriate lifestyle changes with good counseling, right, with actually good guidance from their physicians or their health coach or whatnot. And they can start to rewire different pathways with good lifestyle habits. I'm all for giving people a leg up. So I use peptides differently for different categories of patients.

I suppose it would matter on what their personal history is, what their family history is. So I've got a patient who's got a pretty severe family history of cardiovascular disease, history themselves of high blood pressure. They're just using it at a very low dose to keep their blood pressure mitigated. And it does seem to have some impact, but only if they're doing all the other things, right?

If they start messing around, and we're doing other things in there as well. I'm using different herbs, different nutrients, different supplements, different lifestyle interventions. But it is... one of many in a toolkit.

I've got people on it who have found it to be really spectacular for boosting their mood and their neurocognition and allowed them to go off antidepressants and allowed them to discontinue some of the things they were doing. It's really, I think this is the problem and I think this is maybe what got me in trouble is

The need for a lot of other pharmaceuticals may go by the wayside in certain people, depending on how impactful this GLP-1 is in their body, because it not only potentially is abating some of the pathology. I mean, we have hard data showing its impacts on the cardiovascular system, as well as what it's doing to the cardiovascular cells, the cells of the heart.

Actually, the damage that's done when there's pathology is being reduced. abated and potentially reversed and mitochondrial function is returning. And we're seeing this in different organ systems of the body. So this is where I'm like, who has something to lose? Which industries have something to lose? Who turned off my Instagram? Was it big food? Was it big food?

Because big food has a lot to lose. And they've come out recently and like different CEOs have come out flat out and said, go look it up on Forbes. They're concerned. Like their snack food sales are down. McDonald's fast food sales are down.

Big pharma might have something to lose because those big pharma companies who don't have a patent on a GLP-1, who are doling out lifestyle drugs like high blood pressure medications and statin drugs, that's their bread and butter, type 2 diabetes and obesity is very profitable. to a lot of industries. So maybe people aren't needing those medications anymore that are on GLP-1s.

The big, the companies that make the joint replacements are concerned because hip and knee replacements are a massive, massive industry right now because all the boomers are just, the obesity problem is really causing havoc on these joints. I mean, most people in our age group, I don't know how old you are, but I'm guessing we're somewhere in there. 29. I'm 28 forever. Line 39, go on.

I mean, hip replacements are a thing, right? Coming down the chute. Dialysis clinics potentially have something to lose. They're popping up on every corner because long-term metabolic dysfunction is, you know, a 15, 20-year process. You get to type 2 diabetes.

And they're like, oh, you've hit the magic number, but the damage has been being incurred to the microvasculature, to our joints, to our brains, to everything else, to our kidneys for that entire time. And so now they're at type 2 diabetes. The path beyond that is dialysis, if you make it, if the cardiovascular disease doesn't take you out, it's dementia and Alzheimer's, right?

Like, that's the path that most Americans are headed down because of our system. And I'm with... Everyone who's like right now we see Callie and Casey Means and they are banging the drum on that fact that we need to change the systems. And I completely agree. And I know Dr. Mark Hyman has been trying to change the systems for a long, long time. I totally agree with that.

And that has been my platform as well for decades. But I'm over here like, okay, the house is on fire for a lot of people in this country and the world. And we're We can talk all we want about how the drywall's flammable and the wood's flammable and the foundation's not built right. We can go on and on, and we need to change all that. I completely—we've got to make it earthquake-proof.

Totally agree, but there's a frickin' fire right now on this individual, and I need a fire extinguisher.

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.

Well, I was originally, about a year ago, I found all this data and literature, like 20 years of studies showing that this class of peptides, for one, they just happen to be owned by big pharma.

Let's start with what GLP-1 is. It's a peptide. So it's a string of amino acids linked together by peptide bonds. So it's a peptide. We make GLP-1 in our bodies naturally in our brain and in our guts. We have receptors for GLP-1s all over our body that do a whole lot of different things. It just was serendipitous that it got figured out for type 2 diabetes.

It does a whole lot of other things in the body. And this was really interesting to me when I started studying it. It's a peptide in that it's in and out of the body very quickly. So the body produces it and the half-life is very short. The pharmaceutical version has been tinkered with so that the half-life is much longer. So the half-life is maybe four to seven days. So that's it.

It's bioidentical. At least Ozempic, which is semaclutide, is bioidentical to our own GLP-1 for the most part. And about a year ago, I started finding literature outside of what most people understand it for. Most people understand it for reducing appetite because it plays on the centers of our brain that control appetite, for slowing gut motility so you feel fuller longer.

And that's kind of where the story ends. That's kind of where people understood how it works. And that's why it's a weight loss drug. And that's why it's for type 2 diabetes. It has multiple impacts on our metabolic health in a myriad of ways that have a lot more to do than just that. And there are receptors in our brains, in our heart, in our pancreas, in our immune cells.

And I started finding literature that was really, really interesting about this, and I started going on podcasts and sharing about it and finding information. Recent studies have come out showing significant reduction in all-cause mortality for those who are on it, reduction in different types of cancers. Cancers?

colon cancer specifically, this was correlative, not causative, but they were comparing people on semaclutide versus, or even some of the other GLP-1s for a period of time versus, I think, insulin. And not a great, I mean, it's not a super clear comparison because insulin is pro-grow, so insulin can cause problems in and of itself.

But interesting data coming out there recently, 13 different types of, potentially reducing 13 different types of obesity-related cancers in And then I was finding data and sharing out about potential protection against COVID and upper respiratory illness. And I was sharing about it on podcast thinking, well, if anything, I'm helping big pharma sell their peptides.

So they'll probably leave me alone. Like I didn't think I was a threat there, you know? And honestly, the microdose is completely independent to the individual sitting in front of me. And that person, for that person, it might be the standard starting dose. Like that might be their microdose, right? So I have no idea. Yeah.

But then I started a second account a few days later, and it grew to 15,000 followers pretty quickly, and it was shut down within 36 hours. And that's when I realized, like, oh, somebody wants me to shut up.

Novo Nordisk, and then Monjoro is Terzepatide, and that's Eli Lilly. But I mean, I have no interest in... keeping people away from the standard. I don't care.

What's interesting is when I started talking about this, I was like, you guys, I'm finding all this amazing literature supporting GLP-1s for neuroregeneration and decreases in inflammation and neural inflammation, which I think is really cool. That's where I got most interested. And potential, there's studies being done right now on potential improvements in Alzheimer's and Parkinson's.

And like, this is super exciting, guys. And my followers, so many of them turned on me and they're like, when did you get bought out by Big Pharma? When did you become a Big Pharma shill? So they're screaming at me in my comment section, accusing me of being a Big Pharma shill. And I'm like, no, I'm talking about compounded versions, you guys. I'm not even talking about the standard brand name.

But if you want to use the standard, great. And many of the people that I talked to in my following have said, you know, I could only get a hold of the standard brand. brand name, through my regular doctor, through regular pharmacy, and it's changed my life. So I'm like, cool. You know, I don't have any favoritism either way.

I'm just saying that if for someone like you, as lean as you are and metabolically optimized as you are, if you had maybe cardiovascular disease in your family or you were dealing with some kind of neurodegenerative condition, we would need tiny, tiny doses for you.

I think I get asked that a lot. I think that's kind of a bold statement to make. And I wouldn't say yes to that. I think the way that I've always practiced medicine is I'm just trying to treat the person in front of me. And I'm trying, I don't use this in isolation. It's not a monotherapy. It's part of a comprehensive protocol. So I'm a big fan of bioidentical hormone replacement.

I've been using it in practice for a long time. My background was actually as a regenerative medicine doctor. So I was doing prolotherapy, PRP, stem cells, exosomes, regenerative therapies in my clinic for decades. So to me, peptides are just part of that. And this is just another peptide.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Well, these started popping up in the regenerative medicine space, at least in my, you know, when I caught wind of them, I would say 2017, 2018. And we use them short term and we use them, we cycle them. So say you injured your shoulder. Right. We put you on a stack of peptides to optimize your shoulder. I would probably do some regenerative injections.

You can even inject these locally to the injured area. Like stem cells. Yeah, you could do however you want. They seem quite safe. They're strings of amino acids, and they insert themselves in. Many of them have anti-inflammatory properties. Many of them have regenerative properties. And when I say regenerative, I think people get confused. It's not like...

We're going to drop some BPC-157 on a heart cell in a Petri dish or some GLP-1, and it's going to make new heart cells. What I mean when I say regenerative in the regenerative medicine world is that often we're just abating pathology. So when you hurt yourself, there's a whole downstream... process of cytokines and inflammatory molecules that happen as the body's trying to heal itself.

And sometimes the body gets caught in a loop. So a herniated disc is a great example. The nucleus pulposa will squish out of the disc and it's called the annulus, the protective coating of the intervertebral disc. And it's not supposed to be on the outside. And once it's on the outside, the body freaks out and sends in everything. And that's why the initial injury hurts.

And then two days later, you're like, good God, I'm really in a lot of pain. It's because of that inflammatory process. Your body's trying to wall it off, control it, contain it, and heal it. But sometimes people's systems go berserk, and it's a horrible mess. And that horrible mess can actually damage the tissues worse.

And so we are trying to get in there with something that's going to be anti-inflammatory healing and abate that pathological process and like slow the roll, if you will. And that's where I think peptides really shine. And so we have a variety of different peptides.

In November, I believe it was, of 2023, all of a sudden there was a meeting at the FDA that, and I know people that usually are in on these meetings, and they told me, like pretty secret meeting just happened. And many of those peptides got wiped. For those of us who are licensed, we can only prescribe them. So I can only speak to the ones I'm still allowed to prescribe.

Well, prescription versions, I'm not sure about. And I know that there are places that sell peptides online still, and I can't speak to those because they're research labs for research purposes and not for human consumption. And I know that's where people are buying a lot of them, but I can't speak to that because I'm licensed to prescribe.

So in Oregon, I can prescribe, there's a couple growth hormone supporting peptides that we still have left, like tesamorelin, sermorelin, We still have the GLP-1s available to us via prescription, via compounding pharmacies. But even those pharmacies are getting in trouble. For what? Well, other compounding pharmacies are turning on them and turning them in.

It's really crazy what's happening right now. Like, it's really crazy what's happening. And I'm somehow caught up in all of this and my name seems to be circulating everywhere because I was just trying to introduce a new way of using these GLP-1s that might be outside of what we know them for. That was all I was trying to get at.

Like, everyone's obsessed with weight loss and they've really vilified it and polarized it. And I'm over here like, okay, can we forget about that conversation for a minute? I mean, that's awesome. And I actually will support that because...

Not without the lifestyle factors, not as a substitute, but in conjunction with, adjunctively, I'm going to give a patient every tool I have available to get them on the path, right? And there are actually metabolic healing properties to these GLP-1s that people don't understand. But over here, I'm like, look at this whole buffet of other impacts that I found data on.

Sure, so thank you for having me.

I'm a huge fan of your work too, Kelly.

Well, the first thing I thought when I got invited onto this podcast was, well, I totally agree with those guys. So what am I going to do here? But I do have some nuanced information I want to share. So my background is I have been in medicine either working in the field or in practice for nearly 30 years. I've been in naturopathic medicine for 16 years.

I was honored to have an incredible mentor for decades who was an amazing naturopathic physician and a very busy practice and He taught me early on, way back in the 90s, all about metabolic health, all about insulin resistance, all about type 2 diabetes. That was back when syndrome X was coming on the scene, which is prediabetes, metabolic syndrome.

We didn't even have metabolic syndrome as a diagnosis at the time. And so that's right when I dropped into his world. He taught me about keeping your waist circumference low. He taught me about fatty liver. He taught me about strength training over cardio. He taught me all the things. My whole platform is about metabolic health and doing all the things.

And all the things being, you know, mitigate your stress, get your sleep in, protect it, strength train, build muscle, high protein, low carb, get good healthy fats, get sunlight, circadian rhythm, all the things.

Yes, of course. I know, you like your vegetables, and I try. But this whole thing blew up this last summer with this Ozempic, and I thought, well, these have been around for 20 years, these GLP-1 agonists, so why all of a sudden?

Yes, but why all of a sudden with the backlash? And it really raised some flags for me, so I started researching, and my background is in regenerative medicine, so regenerative musculoskeletal medicine. I help people rebuild their joints naturally with natural substances, stem cells, PRP. I've been doing that for a long, long time.

And so the first thing I did was research GLP-1 and its regenerative properties. I always look up things according to what my brain knows. My brain understands pain. I understand regeneration and neuroinflammation. All of those things always interest me greatly. And I found so many studies showing impacts on some of the older versions of GLP-1s and the current versions.

impacting neuroinflammation very positively. I found data supporting its potential use in Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. I found data showing regenerative properties in joints, in cartilage, in ligaments. And, I mean, the list goes on and on.

I found data showing, used early, it could, because it actually heals the pancreas, it can reverse type 1 diabetes if used early and started early, semaclutide specifically. And I thought, this is not at all what I'm hearing. Like this is not lining up at all with what I'm hearing. So of course I got super interested. I did a podcast. The feedback was incredible.

I had people from all over the world messaging me, telling me, I do all the things you say, I do all the things you preach. I mean, I was severely, severely censored during COVID for telling people to go outside in the sun, lift weights and eat meat.

I was deplatformed for the work I was pushing back then.

The hashtag sunlight was banned in 2020 off of Instagram. So I have been on this journey of sort of bucking the norm for a long time. And I thought, okay, I'm not, what I'm finding is not lining up. with what I'm hearing from everybody. And then, of course, all the health influencers had to come out against it. And everybody was really quite hot on my tails about it.

I was getting a lot of hate for even mentioning that there might be other impacts that they have on the body. It's regenerative, it's healing, and it's anti-inflammatory throughout the body. There's GLP-1 receptors throughout the entire body, including the brain. It's not just made in the gut. It's a peptide signaling hormone.

Correct, however, semaclutide and terzepatide are actually very closely, well, terzepatide's a little bit different.

Yeah, semaclutide is almost bioidentical to GLP-1. It's simply got as little tinkering on one of the amino acids to keep the half-life longer. So GLP-1 is produced naturally in the body. It's produced by the L cells of our gut. It's also produced in the brain, in the medulla. If it's produced in the brain, I immediately thought, well, it must have use in the brain. And it sure does.

It actually has impact on neuroinflammation beyond appetite signaling, beyond any of that. We've got it sort of in this box of being, it slows gastric motility. It decreases appetite by slowing gastric motility, very sort of basic kindergarten version. And then in the brain, it inhibits appetite. And that's how people have got it.

Well, I start looking into it and I'm like, this is a signaling peptide hormone. Why would we macro dose a hormone? You'd feel awful if you were cranking high levels of thyroid or testosterone or estrogen. And those are sex steroid hormones, but still hormones.

Right. You die if you took high doses, too high of a dose. So I got to thinking, I do bioidentical hormone replacement by dosing physiologic doses, which are much, much lower even than some of the standard dosing. I've always been a fan of starting people very slow and low on any hormone. I ramp them up and I titrate them up until they get tissue saturation and until their symptoms resolve.

Then that's the dose. Then I test to make sure I'm not causing them any harm. That's how I manage patients on hormones. We've got leptin and ghrelin. Those are peptide signaling hormones. Turns out leptin and ghrelin, so leptin, for the audience listening, is secreted by your fat. It goes to your brain. It tells your brain you're full. It's basically the thermostat of the brain.

It lets the body know energy status, right? Ghrelin is secreted by the stomach, and it goes to the brain and tells you you're hungry. I always think grr, ghrelin, right? That's how I remember the two. Ghrelin and leptin don't work if GLP-1 isn't present.

the receptors actually don't even come to the cellular surface. So I was like, well, this is very interesting.

The receptor signaling of, and this was just in rats, but the receptor signaling of the whole orchestra of how these work together, it's much more nuanced, I think, than we understand. The orchestra doesn't work if GLP-1 isn't there. So then I thought, I wonder if we have GLP-1 deficiency. I wonder if that's a thing, right? It is.

Mechanistically, it's a thing in those with fatty liver, those who are obese, and those with type 2 diabetes. And then I thought, is this a chicken or egg? Is it due to the chronic insulin resistance and the damage to the vagal nerve and, you know, on and on and the leaky gut and the damage to the gut mucosa and the damage to the microbiome? Is that what is inducing the GLP-1 deficiency?

Then I started talking to my friends who were like the nerdy genetic people, they love their genetic mutations, and they started telling me that there's SNPs, that code for GLP-1, and that they're seeing deficiency in those, or they're seeing mutations in those SNPs in a lot of people.

And in fact, one of my friends runs a diabetes clinic, has done so for decades, functional medicine, diabetes, and he said that 95% of the patients he's seeing have this genetic SNP mutation.

I don't know.

Crack.

They are.

Let me finish what I was trying to tell you guys. I started using this in patients, and I have only one who is using it for weight loss. Everybody else is on it for a different reason. And I'm using it at a fifth of the starting dose, compounded, droplets. And when I started doing this, my colleagues who listen to my podcast all started also microdosing GLP-1s in their clinics.

And we've all reported back to each other and we're seeing phenomenal results in all different kinds of conditions that leads me to believe that we may actually be able to do away with a lot of the lifestyle pharmaceuticals that people are using. So people are on other drugs for life, such as high blood pressure meds or statin drugs.

These peptides have been shown to heal heart tissue and to reverse heart failure. So I've got one patient on it for high blood pressure. Tiny little dose, high blood pressure, blood pressure's down. I personally take it because I have psoriatic arthritis and I have crippling pain from tip to toe. It doesn't matter how clean of a life I live. It doesn't matter how clean my fish tank is.

Menopause hit me. The brain fog was real and the pain came with it and I knew it was due to neuroinflammation. So tiny little doses mitigates My autoimmune conditions, like nothing I've ever used without any side effects, none of the people I'm using it on, none of the patients that my colleagues are using it on are having any side effects.

You keep the dose low, the nausea, the vomiting, the terrible side effects, the muscle loss, that is all a dosing and management issue. And brand names start in a pre-filled pen. I don't use them. They're too high of a dose. We are mono dosing. at high doses, monotherapy, a hormone. And that's why we're seeing these horrific side effects, which I completely agree with.

I've listened to your argument on different podcasts and I'm like, I totally agree with them. I totally agree with what's happening there. We wouldn't throw out thyroid if all the doctors were overdosing their patients on thyroid. It's a management and dosing issue on the doctor's part. And then how compliant are patients, right?

Tiny. Because they're dealing with severely metabolically busted people already. And the people I'm dealing with are doing all the things and are generally metabolically healthy.

Or the average American. So you give them a leg up. I have a license to prescribe. So I prescribe things to give people a leg up. I do use Prozac as needed at very low doses. And the way that I have been taught by my mentor is when a patient comes in, and here's their pharmacological profile, and here's their lifestyle. You lower this as much as humanly possible or get them off is the goal.

The reason I became a naturopathic physician in the state of Oregon, so I prescribe is to get people off drugs. And then you bring up their lifestyle.

You bring up their lifestyle, right? And so you hopefully get this as low as possible. But I'm not opposed to keeping people on tiny little doses. This is not the first drug I microdosed. I microdosed Prozac in patients. I've microdosed statins. I microdosed all kinds of drugs to give them

You get a different mechanism of action when you use things at tiny little dosages than when you macro dose them. Macro dosing a drug gives you a different pharmacologic impact on the body.

Yeah.

Everybody lost weight.

So I have one patient who is morbidly obese. He's well over 300 something pounds and can't move in so much pain. He can't move. He sleeps in a lazy boy, spends all day in a lazy boy, doesn't get up, doesn't move, cognitions off, has had too many strokes. I don't even have him at the starting dose yet. And it's been months and he is very happily, very slowly shedding the weight.

Yes. So I've got him at a fraction of that and his cognition has improved. The cognitive impacts have been huge. I've seen it eradicate depression. I've seen it reverse PCOS. I've seen people walk straight into fertility after decades of infertility issues or just decades of PCOS. And this is all at micro doses. I'm talking droplets.

I think all of it. You know, the mess of toxic soup we live in. I mean, we live in a toxic soup period. Epigenetically, like you said, mothers... The data around maternal diabetes and metabolic inflammation and the offspring, do you know Pottinger's cats? Did you guys ever hear about Pottinger's cats? So Pottinger in the 30s took cats and he fed them. He was a veterinarian.

He fed them cooked meat and pasteurized milk.

That's all he did was change it. And within one to three generations, they were completely infertile. Their intestines were inflamed and boggy. Their livers were enlarged and fatty, infiltrate. And it took him multiple generations with optimal cat diet, which is raw milk and raw meat, multiple generations to reverse them back to a fertile, healthy animal. So I'm 50. I watched all of this happen.

I've seen it. I remember when there was like one kid in school who truly had a glandular problem, who was overweight.

I've watched this whole thing unfold. I've watched food change. I've been battling against it, too, for a long, long time. But we're in a pickle. And I think we're... I think I am actually a few generations into potting... At least one into the Pottinger's Cats. My parents, the boomers, had the convenience foods. Crisco oil came into play. And here we are.

Yeah, me too, and Wonder Bread and bologna. But my daughter's 24 next week, and her generation is a mess. It's a mess.

I totally agree.

I'm not talking about treating obesity.

These peptides have been shown to heal heart tissue and to reverse heart failure. So I've got one patient on it for high blood pressure, tiny little dose, high blood pressure, blood pressure's down. I personally take it because I have psoriatic arthritis and I have crippling pain from tip to toe. It doesn't matter how clean of a life I live. It doesn't matter how clean my fish tank is.

Have you had a patient in front of you who's dealing with chronic mold or SIRS or severe trauma and adverse childhood events and it doesn't work?

It gives you the ability, well, first of all, lose five to 10% of your body weight and see what happens. You start moving more, you feel better, you have less pain, you're more inclined. Most people that I'm seeing on it don't actually want to start changing things significantly until about the two month mark. And all of a sudden, they start talking about, hey doc, what should I do for exercise?

What should I be doing beyond walking? The hedonic urge to eat the junk is gone.

Not always. It actually is having a regenerative impact. There is a long-term regenerative impact and a healing impact from the peptides. And we have the data on it. I'm not sure what data you're looking at, but the data I'm looking at is not showing exactly the same thing.

Well, first of all, I don't use anything in isolation. So the foundations are always the foundations, right? Diet, lifestyle, exercise, sun, all of those are always critical. Sometimes people aren't ready to implement all of those things, and it's quite a bit overwhelming, as you've seen with your patients. You've got to start with one thing. I also never use peptides in isolation.

I, like you, use a multitude of them with patients. And I also usually bring in some bioidentical hormone replacement as needed, depending on their age and their condition. And so this is just but one tool in a comprehensive tool belt. And when done that way, I found that you can keep the dose significantly low, and then I cycle it. So just like a hormone.

No.

on and off, just like I do a hormone. So that off period may be one week out of the month. It may be a month out of every quarter. It may be go off for a period of time and go back on when you need it.

Not if they're metabolically optimized. So I really think that peptides in general work best in folks who are metabolically optimized. So I'm not defending this for strictly weight loss.

I'm using it as an adjunctive tool in a comprehensive toolbox to get people that leg up so that they have the energy, they start to drop the weight, they start to do all the things, or they do better at doing all the things, right? It might be the patient is doing all the things, but they've got a crazy sugar addiction. Or who knows? Who knows what it is? Again, mold exposure, Lyme disease.

It could be a myriad of things that's keeping their glucose elevated. They are doing everything perfectly, and their blood sugar's still elevated. I've seen patients like that. You're like, how is this? How are we still dealing with this elevated hemoglobin A1C? You're lean, you're fit, you're doing everything right, you're eating like a saint.

A touch, just a little touch of something, it's not always a GLP-1, but there's something that they need, and when we give that, we give what the body needs, it responds in favor, and they improve. And I'd like to say, most women I know on bioidentical hormone replacement will tell you we don't mind taking it for the rest of our lives. I don't plan on getting off thyroid.

I have no desire to get off thyroid. I have no plan of getting off of my estrogen. I have no desire to.

They work in everyone. But they work best when you're in the... You can keep the dosage low when folks are generally healthy.

Not necessarily. It depends on when they start implementing lifestyle changes. Some people need some help getting there. And the other piece is that I don't think people need to be on them for life at high... I certainly don't think people need to be high-dose the way that they're being dosed. I think that was just the way the studies were ran. Mm-hmm.

We're also dealing with a population, when we're talking about diabetes and obesity, who are already prone to pancreatitis, they're already prone to thyroid cancer, they're already prone to gastroparesis. I mean, the number one risk factor for gastroparesis is type 2 diabetes. And the number one risk factor for thyroid cancer generally is diabetes and obesity. So, you have two times the risk.

So, I'm talking about intervention, because these peptides actually, they don't act as just a band-aid, Kelly, they heal your metabolism. They heal your pancreas, they heal your liver, they heal your metabolism.

I'm not seeing it in any of my patients. The study that you're referencing, you're right, it was a small, I mean, I think it was like seven out of 600 and something got the bowel obstruction. You know, seven people, which looks terrible as a hazard ratio, but... And when you scale it out, yes, I agree. But I think we're talking management and dosing being the problem.

And when you overdose somebody on a peptide or anything, I mean, when I take too much BPC-157, I swell up and I get swollen throughout my body. I get edema. So overdosing somebody on a GLP-1 is I think is what's happening. And then we're already we're taking already brittle.

They're metabolically brittle, their vagus nerve is damaged already, their muscle tissue is already pathologic and full of fatty infiltrate, and then we're slamming them... Like a ribeye.

Yeah, and then we're slamming them with monotherapy, high-dose GLP-1s. I think it's a disaster.

I don't think it's very dangerous. I think in the wrong person it could be.

Yeah, so you're going to get more side effects, isn't it? Yeah. And the gastroparesis is not permanent, regardless of what the clickbait headlines are telling us.

Yeah, it comes back online. The thyroid cancer is correlative at best.

It's been in rats. That black box warning is in rats that we're giving like... Cancer that doesn't even occur in humans.

No, it's in rats.

There's no human cases. There's literally no human cases showing causative.

Well, I was gonna finish. They took the rat, and they gave him 100 times the human dose, and they got a very rare form of medullary thyroid cancer that rats developed spontaneously, and the control group also got a high rate of medullary thyroid cancer. So I'm not downplaying anything. No, I'm talking about what the Cleveland Clinic is showing for the actual data.

They should talk to their doctor, and if they have a history of medullary thyroid cancer in their family, they should absolutely... That's a doctor-patient relationship discussion. I'm not defending Ozempic, and I'm not defending it at high doses for weight loss. I'm talking about nuance. We're not throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

It's the same percentage on a low calorie diet.

Well, first off, I think that's a dosing issue. If you pull back the dosage low enough, people have an appetite and they continue to eat regularly. And interestingly, I've got people eating, claiming to eat the same amount of calories and still having visceral fat loss and they're tracking themselves. So, there's something changing there and we have data to show that it decreases visceral fat while

maintaining and actually inducing muscle protein synthesis. GLP-1s induce muscle protein synthesis through various signaling pathways and through perfusion, blood perfusion and delivery of amino acids. It's folks going on a severely calorically restricted diet that is causing the muscle loss. The doctors are cranking the dose too high too fast. They're being ramped up way too fast.

It's crushing their appetite. They're going into an anorexic state and they are indeed losing everything. And just like you said, they're going to end up way worse off at the end. of this terrible journey. And so I don't disagree with that. I always say that strength training is non-negotiable. And I've said that for decades. Strength training is non-negotiable, period.

If you want to live a long, healthy life and be metabolically optimized and survive the zombie apocalypse, you have to strength train. It really is. And so we can blame the doctors. We can blame the pharmaceutical industry. But I'm talking to the patients because you and I both know that compliance is an issue with patients. And they don't always do what we want them to do.

And they don't always do what we need them to do. So my patients understand the prescription ends if you don't strength train. I will pull this out. Like we will no longer be dispensing this. So strength training, optimizing.

Well, I can tell by touching them. I'm a chiropractor. I can tell by their muscle integrity just by putting my hands on them, whether they're, you know, good musculature or fatty flaccid muscle.

That's helpful.

That's not all it is. there's a ton of regeneration and healing happening from the peptides.

That's not correct.

And they came back and said it was not an issue.

It actually shifts your microbiome into a favorable microbiome and out of a pathologic microbiome.

It actually improves dopamine signaling.

No, it impacts the HPA axis and imparts a dopaminergic effect. So, you're saying flatly that a drug... It's not a drug, it's a peptide, and they're overdosing people on it, and that's why they're having terrible side effects. And also, when people lose a tremendous amount of weight too fast, they get depressed and suicidal.

I'm not seeing any appetite suppression.

I'm seeing awesome impacts of that.

Well, we have 20 years of data on GLP-1s, just not semaclutide and terzapatide. And we weren't hearing all of this, these huge mainstream media headlines before that with exenatide that's been around for 20 years and loraclutide.

Yeah, the CEO of Cheez-Its, the fact that there is a CEO of Cheez-Its cracks me up. But the CEO of Cheez-Its said we will keep an eye on this. And they're actually...

know doing a detour and coming up with potentially supplements to offset their snack sales because they're down the joint replacement companies are concerned dialysis clinic companies are concerned you know there's a lot of there's a lot of big companies that are concerned about this as well so i feel like and here's here's just a total you know out in left field i actually think big pharma is concerned

I think the big pharma companies who don't hold a patent on a GLP-1 agonist are very concerned because they happen to be the ones who hold the patents on the popular statin drugs and blood pressure drugs that every American ends up on for life. So I really wonder if big pharma isn't actually, you know, depends, you know, war of the big pharma companies. I don't know.

I think we're giving doctors a little less credit than they deserve.

Well, I purposely did not become an MD because I wouldn't do it. I purposely became a naturopathic doctor because I didn't actually have to.

I didn't go. I wasn't going to go work for the evil empire. From the get-go. So I have been watching every single webinar piece of information that every single medical platform has put out. Medscape, every single one.

On this topic. I have been doing nothing but consuming information about this. And in every case, the doctors, the obesity doctors, obesity specialists mean well. They all talk, especially, I watched a whole one on childhood obesity, and they were like, we don't want to be injecting children. We can talk about children exercising more and children eating better and children doing all the things.

Really, the issue is their parents.

Actually, most children who suffer from obesity have obese parents.

In all of these webinars, they specifically double down on lifestyle. They specifically double down on lifestyle. And I'm not bought out by Big Pharma, I'm not a fan of the allopathic medical community, but I have been watching everything from all sides that I can get my hands on to see where this nuanced conversation is.

And in every case, they are talking that we have to be implementing lifestyle strategies for adults and children. And the other part of the conversation.

But the doctors are saying it. At least they're trying.

I, menopause hit me. So tiny little doses mitigates my autoimmune conditions like nothing I've ever used.

I've been in this a long time and it's really challenging. It's easier said than done because you could put all of these perfect world scenarios in front of a 12 year old and if their parents are not going to comply with it, that kid's stuck. That kid's stuck in that household having to deal with what's made for dinner for them by their mom and dad. And most cases of childhood obesity

are coming, are stemming from obese parents. There's a whole overhaul that we have to do that is so much more nuanced than just changing public policy.

I always start by giving them something to add and not something to take away. I don't take away the ultra-refined carbohydrates right off the bat. People will fight.

Well, they will fight for their addictions. People will argue for their addictions. They tried to tax soda in New York and people flipped out and rioted. People will not let go of their addictions. But if you can get them to acclimate... to a new normal and you can get them to stack some wins and get some little dopamine hits on their own, you start to see change. So I get people walking.

I get people increasing their protein. When you increase your protein, you become less hungry. You stop eating as much garbage. It's a slow, incremental step up. When they start to feel stronger and their joints feel more stable, we start to get them strength training. I do start to educate them about the evils of ultra-refined carbohydrates. I educate. It's tattooed on my wrist, Osseri.

I educate my patients so that they understand why they're making these changes. I have them read good books. I have them own the information because when they own it, they're empowered. Even with best efforts, sometimes we need a little hormone depending on their age. We might need some probiotic support for a short time. I'm not a big fan of doing that long-term.

We might need to obviously address nutritional deficiencies. It's a comprehensive, holistic approach way of getting the body back to homeostasis. And when the body comes back to homeostasis, weight starts to fall off. And so that's part one. Part two, something that no one's talking about, that obesity experts know well, is that getting weight off is actually the easy part.

Keeping weight off is incredibly difficult. So what do we do there?

We got to get leptin signaling corrected. We got to get ghrelin signaling. There's leptin resistance in the brain. There's cortisol. There's all kinds of issues. And so I look at a person comprehensively. I don't look at them as a condition. They come in and they say, I have this, this, and this. I'm like, okay, whoop-dee-doo. I'm interested in you, Mark. Let's see what's going on with Mark.

How do we get Mark back to homeostasis? And things start to fall into place that way. It's a slow, steady process. I realize not everybody has access to doctors like you and I. And I realize that not everybody knows how to practice the way we do or even wants to practice because it takes time. And it's arduous, and it's complicated, and it's like trying to hit a moving target, right?

But I'm trying to pull people back to center so when they know better, they do better. They can educate their families. That trickles down. You know, I catch my daughter schooling her friends on things. I catch my husband teaching the work crew about nutrition in his own, like, you know, blue-collared way. So we teach, right? And we educate.

And that's all I'm really trying to do about these peptides is like, yes, I understand that monotherapy, high dose, the way it's being handled, jabbing 12-year-olds with it, not the solution. Not long-term, not sustainable, not a good idea. But there's nuance here. And I do think they have a place. And so I will use them as needed per the individual.

I don't know if that person's going to need it forever. I don't know how metabolically busted they are. I don't know how quickly they're going to respond. And I don't mind. If they feel fine taking a tiny little dose of this and cycling it for a long period of time, I am there to treat them and serve them.

I'm not there to impart my policy changes on them for a worldview and say, well, Ozempic's bad, therefore you can't have it. That's not my job.

Not all of them. They work better in people who are using them to optimize. If we're just using peptides to optimize or we're using a little TRT or a little bioidentical hormone replacement in someone who's generally optimized, it's a much lower, easier process.

He's a mess.

My dad, doesn't matter what I teach him, he's not gonna change his eating habits. He's got a serious addiction. And so I told him, I was like, hey, dad, you've got one foot in the grave, you're in your early 80s, you're on your way out, his toes are purple. I mean, he's looking at toe amputation here in a hot second. He won't walk anywhere, he won't do anything.

I said, I am gonna crank the dose up on you. I'm gonna get this weight off. But you know what? Cranking the dose up in my world does not match what the allopathic system is doing. We're still going very slow and low. And my dad's actually talking now. And he's got hope. And it's the first time at Christmas, this Christmas was the first past one that we actually had a conversation.

My dad was involved instead of just being checked out and glazed over. And he has hope. I bought him a vest, like a puffy vest. I said, so you can wear them on your walks because he can't get a jacket on because he's so heavy. He doesn't want to go outside and be seen. He's embarrassed. And so I bought him a puffy vest and it didn't quite fit.

And he looked at me and he goes, I'm hopeful this is going to fit me soon. And like... I have my dad back and he's still on a baby dose. You know, it's a little bit higher than the starting dose, but it's still a baby dose. And so be it.

It's working. It's working great. And it's slow and low. And the weight, he's so heavy, he can't get on a traditional scale. So we don't even know what his weight is. But his doctor was so impressed. His doctor said, let her manage that. Let her keep going. And you know what I do when I go over? I drop little dietary tidbits.

And I'm like, hey, maybe you shouldn't be sucking this down all day, dad. It's not so good for you. But he's actually, his lights are on and he's listening. So I had to do something because for three decades, I watched him decline and I couldn't do anything. And I'm shocked he's still alive. So I was like, you know what? We're throwing in the Ozempic. We're going to see what happens.

I've always used compounding pharmacies since I graduated and got a license. I didn't realize that most doctors didn't, to be honest with you, at first. That was my bubble of privilege. have found that semaclutide and terzapatide when compounded are always coming pre-mixed. So they're not, you don't have to reconstitute them like some of the other peptides.

They're coming mixed up with clear instructions on the label and then patients are to draw them up. I have heard that we're seeing problems, people presenting to the ER because they're taking too much.

Right. You can't screw it up.

Can't change the dose. It is what it is.

Right. So that comes down to doctor education with the patient in the office and being careful of that. And I realize, like you said, there's, you know, internet, telemed doctors, you can just get it sent to you. But even in those cases, the patients I know who are using those, some are going that route and they're finding it to be just fine. No one's run into any problems.

When people want the fast route, I think they might start piggybacking. We heard about that woman who died in Australia. She actually was using two separate types of peptides. Neither were prescribed or maybe one was prescribed and one she got off the internet and she piggy backed them and she ended up dead. So there are problems and you can get in trouble fast for sure.

Just even the slightest little bit too much and you might have start seeing some nausea. You might start seeing some stomach aches. So we don't want that. But I don't think that compounding pharmacies are the danger the FDA is making them out to be. I've been watching the smear campaign lately and it's incredible. They really are on

The bender, they don't want these peptides getting released without them being, and I'm sure that is something to do with big pharma. We can speculate, but I don't see any problem with it. And you can play with a dose. That's why I like compounding. We can play with the hormone dose. We can play with all the doses.

The whole point of compounding to me is that you individualize the medication for the patient in front of you.

I just want to say that since I released these podcasts on my podcast, I've gotten hundreds- You're getting lovers and haters? Well, I've gotten hundreds of messages from people.

And I don't have the size of audience you do, but I have a sizable audience. And I have so many people writing me saying, I'm writing you through tears. Like that exact quote, I'm writing you through tears. Thank you so much for shedding light on this. I have been on these peptides. I do all the things. I follow you.

I mean, I know the average American doesn't have access to doctors like us, but they do have, there's so much free education on the internet now.

And they are combing through it, they're implementing, they're doing all the things, and they just couldn't get over that hump. And they started GLP-1 agonists and it got them over that hump. And they are crying in gratitude. Hundreds of people messaging me constantly. They're also telling me that they don't tell their husbands they're on it because they're getting shamed.

The pharmacist is giving them side eye. Their family comes down on them at every holiday meal because these peptides are being so vilified. I'm team patient and I'm team whoever's sitting in front of me, like you said, and I'm going to do whatever I need to do to get that person what they need to get that leg up.

Because what I'm finding and what my followers are reporting and what my patients are reporting is that once they start on these peptides and they start to take effect and they start to get that decrease in neuroinflammation and they start to lose a few pounds, they want to move.

and they want to eat right and they suddenly have energy because it is impacting the HPA axis and they're suddenly wanting to actually cook the meals instead of going out for fast food or order in. They're starting to implement the strategies that they need to be doing that they just didn't have the energy or the gumption to do before. I don't know what it is that gets people to implement.

That has been the one crux of my practice. I cannot figure out why some people implement and some people don't, but some people just need a leg up.

Well, there was one study I didn't share, and I don't know if we're allowed to talk about it here, but they did it in 2022. They had type 2 diabetics admitted to hospital with COVID. They administered once a week semaclutide for a few weeks, 80% reduction in death and ICU admission. Interesting.

I'm just wondering, aside from the good points that Callie makes, there aren't potentially some smear campaigns on these going forward, too, from... Well, listen, it's true.

So I started researching, and my background is in regenerative medicine, so regenerative musculoskeletal medicine. I help people rebuild their joints naturally with natural substances, stem cells, PRP. I've been doing that for a long, long time. And so the first thing I did was research GLP-1 and its regenerative properties. I always look up things according to what my brain knows.

My brain understands pain. I understand regeneration. neuroinflammation, all of those things always interest me greatly. And I found so many studies showing impacts on some of the older versions of GLP-1s and the current versions impacting neuroinflammation very positively. I found data supporting its potential use in Alzheimer's and Parkinson's.

I found data showing regenerative properties in joints, in cartilage, in ligaments. And I mean, the list goes on and on. I found data showing used early, because it actually heals the pancreas, it can reverse type 1 diabetes if used early and started early, semaclutide specifically. And I thought, this is not at all what I'm hearing. Like this is not lining up at all with what I'm hearing.

So of course I got super interested. I did a podcast. The feedback was incredible. I had people from all over the world messaging me, telling me, I do all the things you say, I do all the things you preach. I mean, I was severely, severely censored during COVID for telling people to go outside in the sun, lift weights and eat meat.

I was deplatformed for the work I was pushing back then.

The hashtag sunlight was banned in 2020 off of Instagram. So, I have been on this journey of sort of bucking the norm for a long time, and I thought, okay, I'm not, what I'm finding is not lining up. with what I'm hearing from everybody. And then, of course, all the health influencers had to come out against it. And everybody was really quite hot on my tails about it.

I was getting a lot of hate for even mentioning that there might be other impacts that they have on the body. It's regenerative, it's healing, and it's anti-inflammatory throughout the body. There's GLP-1 receptors throughout the entire body, including the brain. It's not just made in the gut. It's a steroid, or I'm sorry, it's not a steroid. It's a peptide signaling hormone.

Correct. However, semaclutide and terzapatide are actually very closely, well, terzapatide's a little bit different.

Yeah, semaclutide is almost bioidentical to GLP-1. It's simply got as little tinkering on one of the amino acids to keep the half-life longer. So GLP-1 is produced naturally in the body. It's produced by the L cells of our gut. It's also produced in the brain, in the medulla. If it's produced in the brain, I immediately thought, well, it must have use in the brain. And it sure does.

It actually has impact on neuroinflammation beyond appetite signaling, beyond any of that. We've got it sort of in this box of being, it slows gastric motility. It decreases appetite by slowing gastric motility, very sort of basic kindergarten version. And then in the brain, it inhibits appetite. And that's how people have got it.

Well, I start looking into it and I'm like, this is a signaling peptide hormone. why would we macro-dose a hormone? You'd feel awful if you were cranking high levels of thyroid or testosterone or estrogen. And those are sex steroid hormones, but still, hormones.

You'd die if you took high doses, too high of a dose. So I got to thinking, well, why don't we just dose physio... I do bioidentical hormone replacement by dosing physiologic doses, which are much, much lower even than some of the standard dosing.

So I've always been a fan of starting people very slow and low on any hormone, and I ramp them up and I titrate them up until they get tissue saturation and until their symptoms resolve. And then that's the dose. And then I test to make sure I'm not causing them any harm, and that's how I manage patients on hormones. We've got leptin and ghrelin. Those are peptide signaling hormones.

Turns out leptin and ghrelin, so leptin, for the audience listening, is secreted by your fat. It goes to your brain. It tells your brain you're full. It tells your brain it's basically the thermostat of the brain. It lets the body know energy status, right? Ghrelin is secreted by the stomach, and it goes to the brain and tells you you're hungry. I always think grr, ghrelin, right?

Ghrelin and leptin don't work if GLP-1 isn't present. Hmm. the receptors actually don't even come to the cellular surface. So, I was like, this is very interesting.

The receptor signaling of, and this was just in rats, but the receptor signaling of the whole orchestra of how these work together, it's much more nuanced, I think, than we understand. The orchestra doesn't work if GLP-1 isn't there. So then I thought, I wonder if we have GLP-1 deficiency. I wonder if that's a thing, right? It is.

Mechanistically, it's a thing in those with fatty liver, those who are obese, and those with type 2 diabetes. And then I thought, is this a chicken or egg? Is it due to the chronic insulin resistance and the damage to the vagal nerve and, you know, on and on and the leaky gut and the damage to the gut mucosa and the damage to the microbiome? Is that what is inducing the GLP-1 deficiency?

Then I started talking to my friends who were like the nerdy genetic people. They love their genetic mutations. And they started telling me that there's SNPs, that code for GLP-1, and that they're seeing deficiency in those, or they're seeing mutations in those SNPs in a lot of people.

And in fact, one of my friends runs a diabetes clinic, has done so for decades, functional medicine, diabetes, and he said that 95% of the patients he's seeing have this genetic SNP mutation.

I don't know. So what's happening is... It seems unlikely that's true.

They are.

Let me finish what I was trying to tell you guys. I started using this in patients, and I have only one who is using it for weight loss. Everybody else is on it for a different reason. And I'm using it at a fifth of the starting dose, compounded, droplets. And when I started doing this, my colleagues who listen to my podcast all started also microdosing GLP-1s in their clinics.

And we've all reported back to each other and we're seeing phenomenal results in all different kinds of conditions that leads me to believe that we may actually be able to do away with a lot of the lifestyle pharmaceuticals that people are using. So people are on other drugs for life, such as high blood pressure meds or statin drugs.

These peptides have been shown to heal heart tissue and to reverse heart failure. So I've got one patient on it for high blood pressure. Tiny little dose, high blood pressure, blood pressure's down. I personally take it because I have psoriatic arthritis. And I have crippling pain from tip to toe. It doesn't matter how clean of a life I live. It doesn't matter how clean my fish tank is.

Menopause hit me. The brain fog was real. And the pain came with it. And I knew it was due to neuroinflammation. So tiny little doses mitigates my autoimmune conditions like nothing I've ever used without any side effects. None of the people I'm using it on, none of the patients that my colleagues are using it on are having any side effects. you keep the dose low.

The nausea, the vomiting, the terrible side effects, the muscle loss, that is all a dosing and management issue. And brand names start in a pre-filled pen. I don't use them. They're too high of a dose. We are mono-dosing at high doses, monotherapy, a hormone. And that's why we're seeing these horrific side effects, which I completely agree with.

I've listened to your argument on different podcasts and I'm like, I totally agree with them. I totally agree with what's happening there. We wouldn't throw out thyroid if all the doctors were overdosing their patients on thyroid. It's a management and dosing issue on the doctor's part. And then how compliant are patients, right?

Tiny. Because they're dealing with severely metabolically busted people already. And the people I'm dealing with are doing all the things that are generally metabolically healthy.

So you give them a leg up. I have a license to prescribe. So I prescribe things to give people a leg up. I do use Prozac as needed at very low doses. And the way that I have been taught by my mentor is when a patient comes in and here's their pharmacological profile and here's their lifestyle, you lower this as much as humanly possible or get them off is the goal. The reason I became Prozac

a naturopathic physician in the state of Oregon, so I prescribe is to get people off drugs. And then you bring up their lifestyle.

You bring up their lifestyle, right? And so you hopefully get this as low as possible. But I'm not opposed to keeping people on tiny little doses. This is not the first drug I micro-dosed. I micro-dosed Prozac in patients. I micro-dosed statins.

I micro-dosed all kinds of drugs to give them... You get a different mechanism of action when you use things at tiny little dosages than when you macro-dose them. Macro-dosing a drug gives you a different pharmacologic impact on the body.

So I have one patient who is morbidly obese. He's well over 300 something pounds. And Can't move in so much pain. He can't move. He sleeps in a lazy boy, spends all day in a lazy boy, doesn't get up, doesn't move, cognitions off, has had two mini strokes. I don't even have him at the starting dose yet. And it's been months and he is very happily, very slowly shedding the weight.

25%.

Yeah, the starting dose, the pharmacologic starting dose. Yes. So I've got him at a fraction of that and he his cognition is improved. The cognitive impacts have been huge. I've seen it eradicate depression. I've seen it reverse PCOS. I've seen people walk straight into fertility after decades of infertility issues from peace or just decades of PCOS. So and this is all at micro doses.

I'm talking droplets.

I think all of it. You know, the mess of toxic soup we live in. I mean, we live in a toxic soup period. Epigenetically, like you said, mothers... The data around maternal diabetes and metabolic inflammation and the offspring, do you know Pottinger's cats? Did you guys ever hear about Pottinger's cats? So Pottinger in the 30s took cats and he fed them. He was a veterinarian.

He fed them cooked meat and pasteurized milk. Yeah. That's all he did was change it. And within one to three generations, they were completely infertile. Their intestines were inflamed and boggy. Their livers were enlarged and fatty, infiltrate.

And it took him multiple generations with optimal cat diet, which is raw milk and raw meat, multiple generations to reverse them back to a fertile, healthy animal. So my, I'm 50. I watched all of this happen. I've seen it. I remember when there was like one kid in school who truly had a glandular problem, who was overweight.

Yes, I've watched this whole thing unfold. I've watched food change. I've been battling against it too for a long, long time. But we're in a pickle. And I think we're, I think I am actually a few generations into potting, or at least one into the Pottinger's Cats. My parents, the boomers, had the convenience foods. Crisco oil came into play. And here we are.

Yeah, me too. And Wonder Bread and bologna. But my daughter's 24 next week and her generation is a mess.