Dr. Vince Hurley

And if you're adding in that technology when they just go down those rabbit warrens, how do you address that?

There's a phenomenon called a wicked problem.

But you know you're talking about when Grace Tate said you had to start somewhere.

So if I gave anyone a ball of string and said that is crime or that is violence against women or that's crime on the internet.

And I'd say, you unravel that ball of string, but there is no beginning and there is no end.

If you pulled on a piece of string, it would knot somewhere else in that ball.

So it's just like a garden hose.

It gets raveled up.

So the wicked problem is that there is no solution to the problem because it is now, in 2026, so complex.

And you're right that it doesn't matter where you start.

You just have to start somewhere to address a problem.

There is no order now to trying to address violence against women or crime in society because it is just all meshed.

It's all just one big, massive knotted ball.

Where do you start?

It is.

And it's interesting you say that because over the last couple of years, the police have employed psychologists to actually be in police stations.

Yeah.

Like they go and visit police stations every day.

Now, that would have been unheard of 10 years ago because, A, it would have been seen soft.

Yeah.