Dr. Will Bulsiewicz

I think that the answer is yes. And the reason why I say that is they have these bizarre studies that they've done where they take people and they inject into them something called lipopolysaccharide. What is that? All right. Lipopolysaccharide is produced by bacteria that live inside of us, like E. coli. So we've all heard of E. coli, okay? So this is like- They inject a disease inside of us.

So they're injecting this thing that you find in E. coli into a person's bloodstream. Wow. Okay. And then they track them over the next couple of hours. We're talking about humans. We're not talking about mice right now. And they see what happens. And here's what they find. Number one, because this bacteria has entered into the bloodstream, they get increased levels of inflammation in the body.

So they're injecting this thing that you find in E. coli into a person's bloodstream. Wow. Okay. And then they track them over the next couple of hours. We're talking about humans. We're not talking about mice right now. And they see what happens. And here's what they find. Number one, because this bacteria has entered into the bloodstream, they get increased levels of inflammation in the body.

Number two, their mood and their motivation to work dips. Wow. All right. Number three, they socially withdraw. All right. So what's going on here? Basically, what I've just told you is that when they inject this E. coli type stuff, which I, by the way, want to unpack that in a quick moment.

Number two, their mood and their motivation to work dips. Wow. All right. Number three, they socially withdraw. All right. So what's going on here? Basically, what I've just told you is that when they inject this E. coli type stuff, which I, by the way, want to unpack that in a quick moment.

When they inject this E. coli based stuff called lipopolysaccharide, it basically activates inflammation and which affects their mood, and it also makes them socially withdrawn. And they think that what's happening is that the body is starting to shut down to preserve energy because it needs to fight the infection. So that's number one.

When they inject this E. coli based stuff called lipopolysaccharide, it basically activates inflammation and which affects their mood, and it also makes them socially withdrawn. And they think that what's happening is that the body is starting to shut down to preserve energy because it needs to fight the infection. So that's number one.

And then they socially withdraw. Why would they socially withdraw? We're social creatures. We come from living in tribes of people, right? And you want to protect one another. If you're sick, you don't want to pass that on to someone else. So, when you feel sick, there's this natural inclination to socially withdraw. To get away.

And then they socially withdraw. Why would they socially withdraw? We're social creatures. We come from living in tribes of people, right? And you want to protect one another. If you're sick, you don't want to pass that on to someone else. So, when you feel sick, there's this natural inclination to socially withdraw. To get away.

To protect the others.

To protect the others.

Okay. So, we have these studies where there's correlation. You have a group of people with major depression and you study their microbiome and you discover that their microbiome is damaged. Yes. Okay. They have what we call dysbiosis or a leaky gut, right? Now, what's causing what? That's the question, right?

Okay. So, we have these studies where there's correlation. You have a group of people with major depression and you study their microbiome and you discover that their microbiome is damaged. Yes. Okay. They have what we call dysbiosis or a leaky gut, right? Now, what's causing what? That's the question, right?

Because there's a correlation, but you can't prove that the microbiome caused the depression or similarly, you can't prove that depression caused the microbiome change. Yes. Right. So then it raises the question, how do we then prove this? And there's a couple of ways that you prove this through interventions.

Because there's a correlation, but you can't prove that the microbiome caused the depression or similarly, you can't prove that depression caused the microbiome change. Yes. Right. So then it raises the question, how do we then prove this? And there's a couple of ways that you prove this through interventions.

And when you take this lipopolysaccharide, basically what you're recreating is what happens when a person has a damaged gut. Interesting. Because when you have a damaged gut, Those microbes, they live inside the tube of the intestine. And as we discussed at the very beginning of the show, that tube is outside of our body.

And when you take this lipopolysaccharide, basically what you're recreating is what happens when a person has a damaged gut. Interesting. Because when you have a damaged gut, Those microbes, they live inside the tube of the intestine. And as we discussed at the very beginning of the show, that tube is outside of our body.

We have a single layer of cells called the gut epithelium that basically protect us. Because on the other side of the epithelial layer is 60 to 70% of our immune cells. Wow. Okay. So the immune system is there to protect us on the other side. And the single layer of cells, it's like the wall of our castle.

We have a single layer of cells called the gut epithelium that basically protect us. Because on the other side of the epithelial layer is 60 to 70% of our immune cells. Wow. Okay. So the immune system is there to protect us on the other side. And the single layer of cells, it's like the wall of our castle.

And when our gut breaks down, when our microbes are damaged, when we don't have enough anti-inflammatory short chain fatty acids, you start to see this gut barrier breakdown. We get what people may call leaky gut. And what leaks is the lipopolysaccharide. This lipopolysaccharide that they were injecting in this study, basically what they were recreating, they were not recreating an infection.