Drew Burney

Meditation or another contemplative practices can kind of get you there as well.

It's very intense, very long, probably years, if not decades worth of that.

So again, not really quantum change, but you know, you're aiming at that.

I think psychedelics might be the closest thing we have, but again, it's not guaranteed.

It can do a lot of things that don't equate to quantum change.

Yeah.

You do a lot of prep work.

You do the experience and you do a lot of integration work after.

I think there's a real risk there of thinking I've went through this experience and I've, oh, look at how much I've changed and you haven't.

The thing around psychedelics, like you said, the highly structured, highly intensive work that you do around it, it's not the experience itself necessarily.

That's the opening up experience.

Like you talked about the dissolution, the eco dissolution or the identity dissolution.

That's what that's there for.

It's all the work you do before, around and after it.

They've showed this to, you know, with the terminal cancer patients, Roland Griffiths, a famous researcher who did this work, found that, you know, if you put them through this pretty rigorous therapeutic protocol involving psychedelics, okay, that you could really get them to, it was around end of life anxiety.

You could really get them to accept it more and have these big changes.

And there were probably a quantum change at some point.

Also in those settings too, they interviewed people, the people around them.

So before, during and after two to see and they're like, yes, this person definitely did change.

It really did change.