Elis James

Yes.

You don't need other things to sort of make you feel better.

Yeah.

But sometimes you, I mean, everyone slips back into it, but it's like doing reps in a gym.

You go, come on, John.

It's not going to make you happy if that thing happens.

It's just, you know, if it's meant for you, it will come, and if it's not, it will pass.

Well, he would say the coffee is already spilt on the letter.

But he would say the QR code has already passed into insignificance.

The QR code has already gone.

You can't live like that.

Well, no, because I guess what you would say is that freeing yourself from the anxiety actually makes you more able to, like, prioritise, to get things done, to decide what's important and what's not.

So it's not saying that you suddenly don't care about anything.

No.

It's saying that that non-attachment means you're much more able to have balanced judgments.

Of course, I'd have been a nightmare because I was unenlightened.

Yes.

I was not on the road to enlightenment.

He's on the road now.

But also, there is a school of thought which says, do not differentiate enlightenment from unenlightenment.