Elisa Donovan

You will never feel super strong and ready to leave.

You're going to have to do this and feel scared to death.

You want to make sure that you have everything you possibly can lined up for your escape, meaning somebody to stay with, access to funds, a prepaid calling card, a prepaid credit card.

You know, have a to-go bag in your car with your passport and your license, any important documents, your medicines, all of that kind of stuff.

Just to have it.

Those are the practical things that people really need to have in place first before they even make any kind of psychological effort.

Oh my gosh, that's so, I mean, it's a lot.

It's like you really have to be ready and willing.

I mean, that's understandable why it takes so long.

I mean, and, you know, I was going to ask why is it so hard for people to leave these relationships, but I mean, I think we just...

And also when, particularly for women, but men too, but when you leave, that's the highest rate for physical violence is when you're leaving or if they hear that you're leaving.

So you have to be really careful.

Right.

So in I am Elizabeth smart, it's a very different situation where, but there is still control and manipulation by her kidnapper and abuser.

So how much of, of this behavior, especially all the religious doctrine that he spews out, um, how much of that would you say is narcissism?

Yeah, a significant chunk of it.

Uh, because if you look at the way in which he manipulates her and also his wife, uh,

you know, right?

That it's very, very much this intense coercive control, intense isolation from everybody in the world, basically, right?

So it's just his doctrine.