Emily Kwong (host, with guest Nell Greenfield‑Boyce also speaking within these segments)

And then Dallas is about to make major renovations to its convention center.

And activists there have been saying, hey, look, this is an opportunity.

You know, like we've gathered data around the existing convention center showing it's a place where lots of birds die.

Let's make the new one bird friendly.

And, you know, Tina Phillips told me because of that big collision in Chicago at McCormick Place.

It's highly improbable that

architects, you know, building in major cities with lots of glass are not aware now that this is an issue.

You can't say people don't know.

Yeah, it's just a matter of like, is there enough public pressure?

I mean, there are costs to doing this, right?

But the costs are minimized if the planning to make things bird friendly is there from the start rather than just trying to like build something and then deal with it after the fact.

And so there are actually places like universities that are really clued into this and are pushing it forward.

I mean, I was just visiting Missouri State University the other week and they had a new building there and they were showing me their bird safe windows.

You know, they had no idea I was thinking about this, but I was in the conference room and they were like, look at our windows, like see the pattern.

And they were so proud of it.

They were showing visitors.

Yeah.

That is so heartening.

Okay.

Well, what about individual houses and smaller buildings?