Emily Maitlis

He had the confidence of the defence industries.

They all thought he was doing a good job.

So I've got to say that I think when Andy Burnham comes in, I wouldn't have thought...

that John Healy would have been the first for the high jump if Andy Burnham is trying to clear out Deadwood and is trying to make spaces for some of the people who he thinks he owes favours to.

I would have thought John Healy would have been one of the safest people to remain in that job, given the sensitivities of NATO, the international framework for things at the moment.

And therefore, I'd have thought that... I think John Healy's just taken this decision because, you know, yeah, sure, Makerfield is coming next week.

Yeah, I mean, you know, this is real unknown territory.

I think why John Healy is so...

toxic and radioactive and utterly dangerous for Keir Starmer in a way that West Streeting is not as much is that we knew we know that West Streeting is ambitious that he wants to be the prime minister that he's got his own game to play and therefore you know the positioning of when he resigned and you know was this the right time and could I launch an early challenge and have I got the votes have I got the 81 votes you know maybe I haven't but I might get there but

That was all factored in to Wes Streeting's resignation.

John Healey has no ambitions to be the Prime Minister.

He has the ambitions to be the Defence Secretary and do a good job at a difficult time when the whole relationships of Western security are up for grabs and everything is changing and we are in a period of flux and he wanted to put the British Armed Forces on a solid footing with European Armed Forces.

He had no further ambitions other than to do that.

So when someone like him goes, you just think, oh my God, it must be rotten business.

At the core.

And I think that that is why it's so dangerous.

And I think that to your point, Emily, about, you know, how long does Starmer go on?

Can you really see?

Just close your eyes.

Can you see Keir Starmer delivering the leader's speech at the Labour Party conference at the end of September?