Emily Maitlis

So I think that, look, you know, John Healey has been this moderate, mild-mannered man who has been driven to the point of resignation by the failure of number 10 and number 11.

And although they may be short of kit at the Ministry of Defence right now, that is a laser-guided missile that he has fired straight at Downing Street and it's hit its target.

And it's hard to see what emerges from the rubble of this.

We've been speaking...

All this time about, oh, well, make a field by election next week.

This could be the decisive moment in Keir Starmer's future.

I think that taking us all by surprise, it's John Healey today.

As you say, this day might be seen as the moment where it all collapsed on Keir Starmer.

Of course.

And look, the arguments about...

The way procurement is done in Britain.

And there are all sorts of examples of tanks, of armoured personnel carriers, of the rifles that the British Army are issued with.

All of those things.

There have been absolute nightmares of procurement that have taken place over the past where huge amounts of money have been wasted in that process.

I suppose the bigger argument is that is taking place is, you know, look, there is a perfectly reasonable argument to say, OK, what's happened in Europe with Ukraine is bloody awful.

But I don't think Russia poses a threat to the rest of Europe.

Or you take the view that actually we're all under threat now and therefore we've got to take defence spending seriously.

Once you've said.

And Keir Starmer completely accepts the argument that what has happened in Ukraine could be a warning to other Baltic states.

It could then go to Poland.