Emily Maitlis

What about Germany?

And then is the whole of Europe potentially in line from Russian attack?

If you take the view that actually our defence forces are...

undermanned and under-equipped right now.

And this is something that needs to change in short order, not just because of Russia and Ukraine, but because of the position of America right now, where it seems very ambivalent about the Western security umbrella.

Then, by God, you've got to gear up.

And, you know, when people start talking about national service as being something that potentially could happen, you think, yeah, this might happen.

Well, then you need to have the military hardware.

And you're absolutely right.

I mean, of course, what has happened in Ukraine has totally changed what people's theory is about warfare and what you need and what the military hardware is.

And, yeah, you can have an aircraft carrier that costs billions of dollars.

and it might have the most sophisticated defenses but if it is swarmed by a whole bunch of 150 drones

the drones are probably going to win.

And therefore, you've got this sitting duck of a target sitting in the sea that has cost you billions.

So there are undoubtedly changes that are taking place.

And I think the Strategic Defence Review and what Healy was trying to do... And that is why this is utterly catastrophic for Starmer and for Rachel Reeves that John Healy has said...

enough i can't stand this any longer and i'm quitting and this ahead of a nato summit this ahead of a g7 summit at a time when britain is trying to show leadership on this stuff about what is the future defense of europe look like and sitting with emmanuel macron and you know and chancellor merz and saying we've got to step up we've got to take responsibility and now his defense secretary has walked over something as fundamental

as, you know, the accusation in the letter, you're not keeping the country safe.

I'm not sure I buy that.

I know John Healey a bit.