Emma Pinchbeck

Now, I don't think they've done that.

I very rarely hear that first case principle.

So that's the first thing.

I don't think people understand how important energy is.

I don't think, as this conversation illustrates, people understand how complex it is.

There are very few simple answers in energy.

There are in the long run.

But in the short run, all of them have costs, benefits, trade-offs and others.

And I think we need to have a much more honest conversation with people about those trade-offs.

More debates like this one.

And the third thing I think is, I think you have to have people who can do the big kit and the impact on people at the same time and work out where the balance between those things is.

So...

You need to think about the impact on the energy bill right now.

There is a cost of living crisis.

We need to get the price of electricity down.

You need people who can think about retail policy.

You mentioned the chief exec of Octopus earlier.

You need those people that are all about tariffs and services and getting kit into people's homes to be having an argument with the people that want to build big stuff and kit and grid and to be willing to then, as a politician, make a bold judgment call about which world you're in and then explain it.

Honestly, does that sound like something that is easy to do in the political climate we're in where it's quite short term and immediate and it's hard to have like big complex debates and lead with nuance?

No, but that doesn't mean that it's not the right thing to do.