Emmanuel Chalit

Well, because you look at it annually.

And depending on the courts I look at, for some courts, we have annual churn that is in the 0.3, 0.4%.

So that's how you go lower.

But in reality, our net churn is actually negative.

How negative?

Why?

Because that's not coming from any upsell.

That's coming from the fact that we are in a business where there is a very long tail of conversion.

To give you an example, we have people today that started using Dashlane in 2013 that have used the free version for the last five years.

And because of GDPR, because of Facebook and Cambridge Analytica say, you know what?

I got to get serious about this.

I'm going to get the paid version.

And so we add more people.

to our premium subscriber accords every month or every year, then we lose through chart.

We effectively have net negative chart.

Uh, you could think about 105.

Constantly, but our focus, um,

and it's going to be more and more the case, is on engagement rather than revenue.

We see revenue as a direct consequence of engagement.

Another way to think about that is the ratio between, let's say, for instance, monthly active users and paying subscribers is one of the most stable metrics in our business.