Eric Topol

And Joel, you are going to be the pro-science side, if you will.

Can you start that argument?

That's helpful.

You know, these are two experts in conflict resilience here.

I mean, the only thing I'd add is that long COVID is affecting millions of Americans, perhaps as many as 60 million people around the world, and we have no treatment for it.

So, you know, it's a big deal.

I think you did a good job.

I think both of you did a good job.

I think the point here is that you were able to have a civil discussion, make your points.

Uh, you didn't, you know, I, I forced you into it.

You didn't, you couldn't avoid it.

Well, you're in touch obviously with your own, um,

you know, innate issues of, you know, you've, you kind of really emphasize that throughout the book, which is, you know, you gotta be in touch with yourself, not just about your priors, but also your current, your, what, what you're feeling, your posture, your, your heart rate, your, you know, all these other physical things.

So, you know, you, you really got us cued into what's important when you're having a discussion about,

that could lead to, it could exacerbate the conflict rather than help, you know, come to a happy, you know, mid stance or, you know, where both people feel that they've expressed themselves adequately.

I really love the Frederick Douglass quote in your book.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress.

Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation are

want crops without plowing up the ground.

They want rain without thunder and lightning.