Eric Topol

That appears to be inflammation directly of the

of this nervous system.

Has there been any experience with external devices and or this device in pots?

You're just not going to get it right from an external device, is I think what you're saying.

And this is something that has to be right on the vagus nerve.

Yeah, no, I get that.

You're bringing up the other parts of the story here with the TENS device that a lot of people are using for serious pain and also the fact that this got its start not related to relieving inflammation.

But it was back in epilepsy, 1988, VNS was used for epilepsy.

And before we got started, you were telling me about how, and it's in the book, how people, it helped some people with epilepsy, with their seizure control.

But the people didn't want to have the device taken out who it wasn't helping.

Why was that?

Yeah, I think it's important to point out there, the randomized trial in refractory depression was just published this month.

And it's, as you say, half the people derive substantial benefit with severe refractory depression.

So this whole idea of hacking the vagus nerve

whether it's to reduce inflammation or maybe not so clear-cut as far as the mechanism for benefit, it's pretty striking the diverse beneficial potential use cases, if you will, clinical applications.

Now, one of the things that is hot these days, which I don't understand, are cold plunges.

You have these people advocating like, you know, Peter Attia and others of the bro science.

You should go for cold plunges.

And these people are going from cold plunges to hot saunas.

There's a diving reflex.