Eric Topol

Peter and Michael described an anti-science superstorm.

with the three things coming together, the climate crisis, the pandemic, and the anti-science, which is just getting stronger and stronger, and it isn't being helped at all by the world of AI, leading to, as what they say, a potential for infinite disinformation.

So now that we're getting some folks on board, Peter,

Why don't you tell us a bit about your sense of the anti-science superstorm and what motivated you and Michael to put this book together, which is obviously a prescient piece of work.

Yeah, well, it's quite a remarkable piece of work.

And, you know, you described so well the spider web of malevolence, whereby you've got these five forces, the five Ps, the plutocrats and the petrostates, the propaganda, the press, etc.

Oh, because what you do so well is you bring these two existential threats together.

Obviously, the climate crisis was a potentiator for not just this pandemic, but for future pandemics.

And the same players that are involved in the background are

like Rupert Murdoch and the Koch brothers and the same tactics and the Heritage Foundation, the bad actors, the political action committee, you bring it all together.

So it isn't just like, you know.

Yeah, I mean, this is a direct assault, as the words are used, on scientific truths.

And for the pandemic, these were the people that said that we would have herd immunity by the spring of 2021.

I mean, you just can't believe this stuff.

Anyway, I want to go back to in history because there's some really important lessons that you bring up in the book.

This really is framed the strategy with Stalinism.

So back in the 50s and earlier in the 20th century, there was Lysenko and all the things that were going on there.

And for those who are not familiar with Russian history, can you just give us a quick primer?

We're going to talk about that, too, because what you're bringing up with health and wellness industry is something a lot of people are not quite aware of.

But this Wakefield paper, which gave legs to the likes of RFK Jr., and in many ways is really the modern, you know, in the last few decades, it really would help build this anti-science industry.