Evelyn Tribole

And sometimes, obviously, I don't know your parents, but sometimes what's happening is the parents are projecting their own insecurities onto their kids. They doubt their ability. I'll give you an example with my son. It came up as you were giving your story. When he was two years old, I made this amazing meal. I just, I remember it. Lasagna, salad, my favorite cake.

And sometimes, obviously, I don't know your parents, but sometimes what's happening is the parents are projecting their own insecurities onto their kids. They doubt their ability. I'll give you an example with my son. It came up as you were giving your story. When he was two years old, I made this amazing meal. I just, I remember it. Lasagna, salad, my favorite cake.

I don't know why I did it all for me, but I did. And the family loved it too. So I serve everyone the same size of cake. He finishes his meal. He finished his cake and he looks at me, goes more mommy. And the mommy in me is thinking, dude, you've had enough to eat. But the intuitive is like, you know what? Let him have cake. I've served him another piece, the exact same size. You know what he did?

I don't know why I did it all for me, but I did. And the family loved it too. So I serve everyone the same size of cake. He finishes his meal. He finished his cake and he looks at me, goes more mommy. And the mommy in me is thinking, dude, you've had enough to eat. But the intuitive is like, you know what? Let him have cake. I've served him another piece, the exact same size. You know what he did?

he ate one piece, he ate one bite rather, and off he went. And so what that does, I was thinking, my God, if my patients that I see their parents witness that, they see the self-regulation, but if they are tightly wound and they're afraid, they might over-regulate and say, oh, you know, do you think you really need that piece? Or in the case of your dad, you know, what is your tummy telling you?

he ate one piece, he ate one bite rather, and off he went. And so what that does, I was thinking, my God, if my patients that I see their parents witness that, they see the self-regulation, but if they are tightly wound and they're afraid, they might over-regulate and say, oh, you know, do you think you really need that piece? Or in the case of your dad, you know, what is your tummy telling you?

What's your messages? And those kinds of things. So it gets really, really complex. And One of the things I aspire to for families is, you know, diet culture out there is just so, so nasty and so pathological. And the idea of changing culture is so big. But what if we simplify and said, you know, what if we end the legacy of diet culture at our own kitchen table, at least home? Yeah.

What's your messages? And those kinds of things. So it gets really, really complex. And One of the things I aspire to for families is, you know, diet culture out there is just so, so nasty and so pathological. And the idea of changing culture is so big. But what if we simplify and said, you know, what if we end the legacy of diet culture at our own kitchen table, at least home? Yeah.

Is a safer space to the degree that that's possible. We don't disparage bodies. We don't disparage food and those kinds of things because the world outside is tough enough. And I have a lot of young parents who really, when they hear that message, like, oh, I can aspire to, I can do that.

Is a safer space to the degree that that's possible. We don't disparage bodies. We don't disparage food and those kinds of things because the world outside is tough enough. And I have a lot of young parents who really, when they hear that message, like, oh, I can aspire to, I can do that.

I want to do that for my kids because they understand the suffering that they've been through with all the dieting and all the stuff that goes on, all the noise around diet culture.

I want to do that for my kids because they understand the suffering that they've been through with all the dieting and all the stuff that goes on, all the noise around diet culture.

And so that's done on a regular basis. And I want to emphasize generally one episode is not going to make or break a kid's childhood. So parents out there thinking, oh, my God, I did that with my kids. Like, what do you do on a regular basis is what I would be looking at. That's a really, really good point.

And so that's done on a regular basis. And I want to emphasize generally one episode is not going to make or break a kid's childhood. So parents out there thinking, oh, my God, I did that with my kids. Like, what do you do on a regular basis is what I would be looking at. That's a really, really good point.

It's trusting. And you know, and I love what you just said. And that is my body is working. And that's something I have a lot of my patients do is to identify when their body is working. They'll come in sometimes and they're really pissed off because they got really, really hungry and ate a lot, a lot of food. It's like, well, let's unpack this and see what's going on.

It's trusting. And you know, and I love what you just said. And that is my body is working. And that's something I have a lot of my patients do is to identify when their body is working. They'll come in sometimes and they're really pissed off because they got really, really hungry and ate a lot, a lot of food. It's like, well, let's unpack this and see what's going on.

Oh, well, they had an early lunch at 11. They got pulled into a meeting after work. Then they went and worked out and they got home at eight o'clock. They haven't eaten in eight hours. And it's like, you know, I understand it was really annoying for you. And yet what I want you to see is your body's working. Your body's like, I have I haven't had enough to eat. Feed me, please.

Oh, well, they had an early lunch at 11. They got pulled into a meeting after work. Then they went and worked out and they got home at eight o'clock. They haven't eaten in eight hours. And it's like, you know, I understand it was really annoying for you. And yet what I want you to see is your body's working. Your body's like, I have I haven't had enough to eat. Feed me, please.

And what's really needed besides the trust is consistency for the most part on a regular basis that if you want your body to trust you, I mean, even all this time of deprivation, it needs to be fed consistently, nourished consistently to the degree that that's possible. We don't have to be perfect. I want to emphasize it's not a perfect process.

And what's really needed besides the trust is consistency for the most part on a regular basis that if you want your body to trust you, I mean, even all this time of deprivation, it needs to be fed consistently, nourished consistently to the degree that that's possible. We don't have to be perfect. I want to emphasize it's not a perfect process.

You know what? It really depends. When I'm working with someone, they're usually seeing me because they're having more challenges than the average. And so sometimes I might create together, joint create some scaffolding to help them honor their hunger. And so having regular meals can be really helpful.

You know what? It really depends. When I'm working with someone, they're usually seeing me because they're having more challenges than the average. And so sometimes I might create together, joint create some scaffolding to help them honor their hunger. And so having regular meals can be really helpful.

I'll never forget back when I was training, I was back in my competitive days of marathon training. I would go over to my grandma's who lived out in a rural area and because I could train with no stoplights and stuff. And she would eat dinner every day at five o'clock. And I'm like, I'm not hungry. But by the end of the week, I was hungry at five. Because our bodies get used to this.

I'll never forget back when I was training, I was back in my competitive days of marathon training. I would go over to my grandma's who lived out in a rural area and because I could train with no stoplights and stuff. And she would eat dinner every day at five o'clock. And I'm like, I'm not hungry. But by the end of the week, I was hungry at five. Because our bodies get used to this.

So yeah, that can be a method if that's helpful. I would certainly check that out and experiment and see.

So yeah, that can be a method if that's helpful. I would certainly check that out and experiment and see.

Basically, I would say it's having self-efficacy. You trust yourself and you don't rely on external or other people to make decisions, whether it's around your eating, career choices, all of those kinds of things. So it's trusting your inner guidance. Yeah. Yeah.

Basically, I would say it's having self-efficacy. You trust yourself and you don't rely on external or other people to make decisions, whether it's around your eating, career choices, all of those kinds of things. So it's trusting your inner guidance. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, that's so true. Absolutely. Yeah. And it might work for that discoverer, but not for you, not your body. Yes.

Oh, that's so true. Absolutely. Yeah. And it might work for that discoverer, but not for you, not your body. Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I see it all the time. In fact, at least I get unsolicited emails and DMs that this has changed my life. Back when I was talking about the intercept of awareness, you know, that is our body's way of self-regulation at a biological level, but it includes emotions. And when you are in touch with that, it helps get your needs met. And what ends up happening is it clears up brain space.

I see it all the time. In fact, at least I get unsolicited emails and DMs that this has changed my life. Back when I was talking about the intercept of awareness, you know, that is our body's way of self-regulation at a biological level, but it includes emotions. And when you are in touch with that, it helps get your needs met. And what ends up happening is it clears up brain space.

So yes, you trust yourself in your decisions, but now you have more ease, ease in living, ease in eating. You're present at conversations. I can't tell you the amount of patients I've worked with where yeah, they were there at the dinner with their girlfriend or their partner or their family, but their mind was somewhere else. Their mind was calculating how they're going to compensate.

So yes, you trust yourself in your decisions, but now you have more ease, ease in living, ease in eating. You're present at conversations. I can't tell you the amount of patients I've worked with where yeah, they were there at the dinner with their girlfriend or their partner or their family, but their mind was somewhere else. Their mind was calculating how they're going to compensate.

And so they're not present in the relationship. So that's the other thing that ends up happening. There's more presence in the relationship, which is incredible.

And so they're not present in the relationship. So that's the other thing that ends up happening. There's more presence in the relationship, which is incredible.

Well, and I'll tell you what, I've worked with a fair amount of elite athletes who then retire. And what ends up happening many times is, well, many people take them as size, like, well, you better watch it. You can't eat the same amount of food you've been eating now. And it creates this doubt and it creates this vigilance about the eating when this person never had an issue with food before.

Well, and I'll tell you what, I've worked with a fair amount of elite athletes who then retire. And what ends up happening many times is, well, many people take them as size, like, well, you better watch it. You can't eat the same amount of food you've been eating now. And it creates this doubt and it creates this vigilance about the eating when this person never had an issue with food before.

But because of all of this mistrust, here we're back to the fear again, you start second guessing yourself, you know?

But because of all of this mistrust, here we're back to the fear again, you start second guessing yourself, you know?

And you're right, it is a conditioning. It's a social conditioning. And if you want to really trace back the roots, we can get into slavery, fear of the black body, misogyny, capitalism. There's all kinds of things. And there's this fascinating framework called Bobby Harrow's Cycle of Socialization. And it shows how we are born into this world, you know, innocent. We're not hating our body.

And you're right, it is a conditioning. It's a social conditioning. And if you want to really trace back the roots, we can get into slavery, fear of the black body, misogyny, capitalism. There's all kinds of things. And there's this fascinating framework called Bobby Harrow's Cycle of Socialization. And it shows how we are born into this world, you know, innocent. We're not hating our body.

But as we start getting these messages from our trusted family, caregivers and so on, as it gets into our institutions, in our schools, in our policies and so on, then there are rewards and punishments. If you, you know, conform to what they consider the norm and people don't want to be treated badly.

But as we start getting these messages from our trusted family, caregivers and so on, as it gets into our institutions, in our schools, in our policies and so on, then there are rewards and punishments. If you, you know, conform to what they consider the norm and people don't want to be treated badly.

You know, if you're in a larger body, it's awful and stressful to wonder, am I going to be able to fit on that airplane? Is that seatbelt extender going to work for me? If I go to a roller coaster ride and amusement park with my kids, will I be able to go on the ride with them? Because the world was not built for people in larger bodies.

You know, if you're in a larger body, it's awful and stressful to wonder, am I going to be able to fit on that airplane? Is that seatbelt extender going to work for me? If I go to a roller coaster ride and amusement park with my kids, will I be able to go on the ride with them? Because the world was not built for people in larger bodies.

So the anti-fat bias is unfortunately alive and well, and it's in healthcare. And it just, oh my gosh, the medical fat phobia that creates even bigger problems and gatekeeping in terms of getting care. It's a very, very big issue. Huge. Yeah.

So the anti-fat bias is unfortunately alive and well, and it's in healthcare. And it just, oh my gosh, the medical fat phobia that creates even bigger problems and gatekeeping in terms of getting care. It's a very, very big issue. Huge. Yeah.

And someone says, I don't want to be treated that way. So I'm going to conform as if we can mold our body like it's clay. And that's the shocking part to a lot of people. They get sucked into all these diets thinking, well, this one's going to work. And yet there's a body of research showing it doesn't work. It predicts actually more weight gain.

And someone says, I don't want to be treated that way. So I'm going to conform as if we can mold our body like it's clay. And that's the shocking part to a lot of people. They get sucked into all these diets thinking, well, this one's going to work. And yet there's a body of research showing it doesn't work. It predicts actually more weight gain.

If there's anything wrong with that, it predicts weight stigma. It predicts eating disorder risk, predicts weight cycling, which in of itself has its own health risks in terms of cardiovascular mortality and all kinds of issues around there. And sometimes I think it's like a form of virtual signaling. Look how good I am. Yes.

If there's anything wrong with that, it predicts weight stigma. It predicts eating disorder risk, predicts weight cycling, which in of itself has its own health risks in terms of cardiovascular mortality and all kinds of issues around there. And sometimes I think it's like a form of virtual signaling. Look how good I am. Yes.

Because I eat this way. You know, it's like the day I don't remember when this was because now it's happened so much. It's a sad norm that you go to have a meal with family and friends and someone's apologizing for what they're eating or they're explaining. You don't need to explain to anyone why you're eating or why you're not eating.

Because I eat this way. You know, it's like the day I don't remember when this was because now it's happened so much. It's a sad norm that you go to have a meal with family and friends and someone's apologizing for what they're eating or they're explaining. You don't need to explain to anyone why you're eating or why you're not eating.

Let's just break bread and enjoy the conversation and catch up with ourselves and so on. So it's a cultural neuroses that we have. It's global. I see it all over the place.

Let's just break bread and enjoy the conversation and catch up with ourselves and so on. So it's a cultural neuroses that we have. It's global. I see it all over the place.

Yeah. And denying your exhaustion. And, you know, Abby, you mentioned this earlier about primal exhaustion, because another trend I see a lot with people who are especially overexercising. And one of the ways I ask about this is, you know, if you're feeling an injury coming on, can you take a break? If you're feeling sick, can you take a break?

Yeah. And denying your exhaustion. And, you know, Abby, you mentioned this earlier about primal exhaustion, because another trend I see a lot with people who are especially overexercising. And one of the ways I ask about this is, you know, if you're feeling an injury coming on, can you take a break? If you're feeling sick, can you take a break?

And if the answer is no, no, no, then I will ask, do you have a fear that if you stop working out, you're never going to work out again? Yes, how did you know? And I said, well, because I think your body's exhausted. And I see you smiling, Abby, with that. And what I see is if someone's had the love of sport or the love of movement, it will come back, but your body just needs this big old rest.

And if the answer is no, no, no, then I will ask, do you have a fear that if you stop working out, you're never going to work out again? Yes, how did you know? And I said, well, because I think your body's exhausted. And I see you smiling, Abby, with that. And what I see is if someone's had the love of sport or the love of movement, it will come back, but your body just needs this big old rest.

There's nothing wrong with you. It's just you're exhausted.

There's nothing wrong with you. It's just you're exhausted.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. And so aiming for satisfaction is a great way to center your, your eating. Um, And by the way, I want to also say, you know, I've had some people think that eating has to be a 10 every time. The meal has to be Nirvana. It's like, no, sometimes it's a pair of boring, sensible shoes. It's going to get the job done and that's okay.

Yeah. And so aiming for satisfaction is a great way to center your, your eating. Um, And by the way, I want to also say, you know, I've had some people think that eating has to be a 10 every time. The meal has to be Nirvana. It's like, no, sometimes it's a pair of boring, sensible shoes. It's going to get the job done and that's okay.

But when you can eat to the point of satisfaction and you know, you can have that food again. I knew that wasn't not going to be the last time I was going to have cake. It's not a big deal. And sometimes, honestly, I feel a little sad. It's like, oh, I'm by the way, I forgot to mention, I'm here in Hawaii working remotely so I can surf and you might be hearing waves in the background, but

But when you can eat to the point of satisfaction and you know, you can have that food again. I knew that wasn't not going to be the last time I was going to have cake. It's not a big deal. And sometimes, honestly, I feel a little sad. It's like, oh, I'm by the way, I forgot to mention, I'm here in Hawaii working remotely so I can surf and you might be hearing waves in the background, but

And there's a restaurant here that I love. It's got my favorite desserts. It's hula pie. It's macadamia nuts, ice cream with chocolate fudge. And I get sad when I'm full because like, oh, it tastes so good, but I'm not willing to feel uncomfortable to eat the rest of it. And I know I can have it again whenever I want to. And I realize there's privilege in that as well.

And there's a restaurant here that I love. It's got my favorite desserts. It's hula pie. It's macadamia nuts, ice cream with chocolate fudge. And I get sad when I'm full because like, oh, it tastes so good, but I'm not willing to feel uncomfortable to eat the rest of it. And I know I can have it again whenever I want to. And I realize there's privilege in that as well.

I want to state that as well.

I want to state that as well.

And by the way, I will say that when people are newish into intuitive eating and have a long history of deprivation, what sometimes can happen is that sadness of feeling full because you still want to eat can feel devastating. It's me. Oh yeah. Okay. So that is actually more of a reflection of the year spent in deprivation.

And by the way, I will say that when people are newish into intuitive eating and have a long history of deprivation, what sometimes can happen is that sadness of feeling full because you still want to eat can feel devastating. It's me. Oh yeah. Okay. So that is actually more of a reflection of the year spent in deprivation.

And so what I say is that will ease up as your body mind gets to see, oh, you're going to have that food again. You're going to have that food again. And you know, you can still eat it right now if you want to, but do you want to feel that way that you might be feeling? And maybe you can, you know, save it. Maybe you can make a promise. You're going to have it again.

And so what I say is that will ease up as your body mind gets to see, oh, you're going to have that food again. You're going to have that food again. And you know, you can still eat it right now if you want to, but do you want to feel that way that you might be feeling? And maybe you can, you know, save it. Maybe you can make a promise. You're going to have it again.

You'll go back, you know, the next day or whatever it happens to be with that, what that food is. So that's, it's normal. There's nothing wrong with you. You're not aberrant because you're so sad that, oh, I'm so full. Or you're so excited about trying a new food. I get patients so excited. I really get to eat the cake. It's like, yeah. And then they feel guilty. They're so hard on themselves.

You'll go back, you know, the next day or whatever it happens to be with that, what that food is. So that's, it's normal. There's nothing wrong with you. You're not aberrant because you're so sad that, oh, I'm so full. Or you're so excited about trying a new food. I get patients so excited. I really get to eat the cake. It's like, yeah. And then they feel guilty. They're so hard on themselves.

Then they feel guilty because they're excited. It's like, you know, you have freedom, maybe for the first time. And that's pretty exciting. Nothing wrong with that. It's normal to feel excited and anxious. All the feels, all at the same time. Nothing wrong with you. It's the human experience.

Then they feel guilty because they're excited. It's like, you know, you have freedom, maybe for the first time. And that's pretty exciting. Nothing wrong with that. It's normal to feel excited and anxious. All the feels, all at the same time. Nothing wrong with you. It's the human experience.

Yeah. And part of it is figuring out something really basic. What am I feeling? What do I need? And then sometimes I'll do even what I call the universal attunement question. And that is one of three answers. How do you feel right now? Pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral? And our brain naturally organizes that way in terms of like, don't like, or kind of neutral.

Yeah. And part of it is figuring out something really basic. What am I feeling? What do I need? And then sometimes I'll do even what I call the universal attunement question. And that is one of three answers. How do you feel right now? Pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral? And our brain naturally organizes that way in terms of like, don't like, or kind of neutral.

And if the description is, oh, I'm feeling unpleasant, then the question, oh, why might that be? Maybe they're hungry. Maybe they're sad and need companionship. But starting to get into that. And so many, we've been talking about women, have been so other focused at the expense of not getting your own needs met. And that's where the problem happens.

And if the description is, oh, I'm feeling unpleasant, then the question, oh, why might that be? Maybe they're hungry. Maybe they're sad and need companionship. But starting to get into that. And so many, we've been talking about women, have been so other focused at the expense of not getting your own needs met. And that's where the problem happens.

There's nothing wrong with being service oriented. But when your own needs are not being met, that's when it becomes a problem.

There's nothing wrong with being service oriented. But when your own needs are not being met, that's when it becomes a problem.

Yeah. And you know, what's interesting when people are sucked into diet culture, whether it's an eating disorder or just diet culture, dieting, or trying to eat the healthiest way that you can, there's, and this doesn't get talked about enough. There is a profound level of self-absorption that goes on and it's a hope. Thank you.

Yeah. And you know, what's interesting when people are sucked into diet culture, whether it's an eating disorder or just diet culture, dieting, or trying to eat the healthiest way that you can, there's, and this doesn't get talked about enough. There is a profound level of self-absorption that goes on and it's a hope. Thank you.

Whenever I bring it up to my patients, I'm really delicate because I don't want to sound like I'm criticizing them. But when you're so self-absorbed, first of all, it's understandable to survival response on some level, but that means you're not aware of what's going on around you. And it's it becomes really problematic.

Whenever I bring it up to my patients, I'm really delicate because I don't want to sound like I'm criticizing them. But when you're so self-absorbed, first of all, it's understandable to survival response on some level, but that means you're not aware of what's going on around you. And it's it becomes really problematic.

And there was this famous study done during World War two, where they took men who were conscious objectors. They were very healthy and in mind and body, put them on a semi starvation diet. And what they found is that these men became incredibly self-absorbed. They became obsessed about eating again. This is during World War two. There was no TV food network and chefs.

And there was this famous study done during World War two, where they took men who were conscious objectors. They were very healthy and in mind and body, put them on a semi starvation diet. And what they found is that these men became incredibly self-absorbed. They became obsessed about eating again. This is during World War two. There was no TV food network and chefs.

So I was running around and all I could talk about is food and collect recipes and cookbooks. And some of those men developed eating disorders. Again, they started off very, very healthy in mind and body. So it's an example of what food restriction can do to your mind and body. It's really profound. We can't underestimate it.

So I was running around and all I could talk about is food and collect recipes and cookbooks. And some of those men developed eating disorders. Again, they started off very, very healthy in mind and body. So it's an example of what food restriction can do to your mind and body. It's really profound. We can't underestimate it.

In fact, I've got to tell you, you entered my heart during COVID when your book tour got canceled and you were sitting on your couch in your colorful jacket thinking, screw it, I'm going to read from my book in my presentation jacket. And that's when I knew I loved you. Oh, thank you. I read your book back then, too. So.

In fact, I've got to tell you, you entered my heart during COVID when your book tour got canceled and you were sitting on your couch in your colorful jacket thinking, screw it, I'm going to read from my book in my presentation jacket. And that's when I knew I loved you. Oh, thank you. I read your book back then, too. So.

Yeah, I want to do at least two. It's so hard. It's like asking to name your children. Which one should we start with? And one of the ones I want to start with is rejecting diet culture, rejecting diet mentality. There has been a misperception that you can't do intuitive eating if there's a part of you that still wants to be in a smaller body. And my response is, you know what?

Yeah, I want to do at least two. It's so hard. It's like asking to name your children. Which one should we start with? And one of the ones I want to start with is rejecting diet culture, rejecting diet mentality. There has been a misperception that you can't do intuitive eating if there's a part of you that still wants to be in a smaller body. And my response is, you know what?

You're a human being. We're living in a weight-obsessed culture. Of course you can come in. You can come into this and be confused and not sure. This is not a journey of perfection. This is not a journey of pass or fail. All are welcome. The issue... becomes what you're willing to act on is can you center the work of intuitive eating?

You're a human being. We're living in a weight-obsessed culture. Of course you can come in. You can come into this and be confused and not sure. This is not a journey of perfection. This is not a journey of pass or fail. All are welcome. The issue... becomes what you're willing to act on is can you center the work of intuitive eating?

And yes, we acknowledge that this desire of weight loss is in the room, and we'll talk about that as much as you need to. But in other words, like on a computer, the active screen is the intuitive eating because that's inner base, as we were talking about earlier. And the moment you start focusing about weight, that becomes external and the work needs to be really internal.

And yes, we acknowledge that this desire of weight loss is in the room, and we'll talk about that as much as you need to. But in other words, like on a computer, the active screen is the intuitive eating because that's inner base, as we were talking about earlier. And the moment you start focusing about weight, that becomes external and the work needs to be really internal.

So that you can start to experience and hear and respond in a timely manner and trust those messages in the body. And I think the other one, I think Elise would agree with me on this. Probably the most organizing principle of all of them would be aiming for satisfaction. Because ultimately, it's not satisfying to under eat. Ultimately, it's not.

So that you can start to experience and hear and respond in a timely manner and trust those messages in the body. And I think the other one, I think Elise would agree with me on this. Probably the most organizing principle of all of them would be aiming for satisfaction. Because ultimately, it's not satisfying to under eat. Ultimately, it's not.

satisfying to eat to a point where you're past comfortable full and so in a really weird way aiming for satisfaction gets you into balance and it's pleasure-based most people i have worked with have not ever come across that as a way to start working with their eating and so you get to get curious it's very very personal and so often i will say you know when i'm doing interviews if you want to take one step that could be a step what would be a satisfying meal for you

satisfying to eat to a point where you're past comfortable full and so in a really weird way aiming for satisfaction gets you into balance and it's pleasure-based most people i have worked with have not ever come across that as a way to start working with their eating and so you get to get curious it's very very personal and so often i will say you know when i'm doing interviews if you want to take one step that could be a step what would be a satisfying meal for you

What would be a satisfying snack? And I've had patients say, I have no idea. And they start crying. They don't know what their favorite foods are because they have been so conditioned to follow the plan, to follow the guru. And it's important that we have a lot of self-compassion on this journey.

What would be a satisfying snack? And I've had patients say, I have no idea. And they start crying. They don't know what their favorite foods are because they have been so conditioned to follow the plan, to follow the guru. And it's important that we have a lot of self-compassion on this journey.

As you had been describing your own story, Glenn, and there's a lot of revelations that end up happening. It's like, oh my God, I was like this. And that's okay. You didn't know. You didn't know any better. Now you're starting to know differently. And when we know better, we do better. So those are two I'd be working with.

As you had been describing your own story, Glenn, and there's a lot of revelations that end up happening. It's like, oh my God, I was like this. And that's okay. You didn't know. You didn't know any better. Now you're starting to know differently. And when we know better, we do better. So those are two I'd be working with.

Another one, and this gets a lot of misunderstandings, is making peace with food, which basically means you can eat whatever food that you want to. And I have patients that are terrified of that. And I don't push that when they're not ready to work on that. And so sometimes I might look at, and there's a big psychology on this, a lot of research on habituation.

Another one, and this gets a lot of misunderstandings, is making peace with food, which basically means you can eat whatever food that you want to. And I have patients that are terrified of that. And I don't push that when they're not ready to work on that. And so sometimes I might look at, and there's a big psychology on this, a lot of research on habituation.

And habituation is this phenomenon dealing with novelty. So if you think about the first time you had a new pair of shoes that you just couldn't wait to have, or a new car, it could be an old car, but it's a new car to you and how exciting it is. And after a year of having us, I asked my ride. Yeah.

And habituation is this phenomenon dealing with novelty. So if you think about the first time you had a new pair of shoes that you just couldn't wait to have, or a new car, it could be an old car, but it's a new car to you and how exciting it is. And after a year of having us, I asked my ride. Yeah.

And the best way I've ever heard described by a researcher was, you know, imagine you're falling in love for the first time with somebody. And at some point they say, I love you. And it's amazing. It's magical. You're floating on air. But five years later, you're in a committed relationship. They say, I love you and it's wonderful to hear, but it's not that same magical feeling.

And the best way I've ever heard described by a researcher was, you know, imagine you're falling in love for the first time with somebody. And at some point they say, I love you. And it's amazing. It's magical. You're floating on air. But five years later, you're in a committed relationship. They say, I love you and it's wonderful to hear, but it's not that same magical feeling.

Well, so I have a sense, but I don't want to assume anything. So that's the best way to go. Not to assume for me.

Well, so I have a sense, but I don't want to assume anything. So that's the best way to go. Not to assume for me.

And so with making peace with food, it's about having the habituation process because when you're constantly on some food plan, some dieting plan, some restriction, food stays exciting and food stays scary. The habituation process hasn't taken place yet. And then there's this whole other area.

And so with making peace with food, it's about having the habituation process because when you're constantly on some food plan, some dieting plan, some restriction, food stays exciting and food stays scary. The habituation process hasn't taken place yet. And then there's this whole other area.

It's known as the restraint theory, but what it's known as its nickname, it's the what the hell effect of eating. And that is when someone has a lot of restraint around eating, they have rigid rules, something comes along to break that restraint. And it could be an event, it can be an emotion, it can be a food. And all of a sudden, it's like, oh, I'm never gonna eat that food again.

It's known as the restraint theory, but what it's known as its nickname, it's the what the hell effect of eating. And that is when someone has a lot of restraint around eating, they have rigid rules, something comes along to break that restraint. And it could be an event, it can be an emotion, it can be a food. And all of a sudden, it's like, oh, I'm never gonna eat that food again.

So I'm gonna get it all now while I can. And it ends up becoming an all or none kind of food feast. So making peace is really about the psychology of having ease with your eating, whatever that food happens to be. It's amazing in that process. Yes.

So I'm gonna get it all now while I can. And it ends up becoming an all or none kind of food feast. So making peace is really about the psychology of having ease with your eating, whatever that food happens to be. It's amazing in that process. Yes.

Well, and you know what? We can get into the weeds on food addiction theory. The interesting thing is, is when you look at what are the causes and conditions that might create this? It could be a belief system. I shouldn't have sugar or I shouldn't have too much sugar. I can have a quote moderate amount if I follow just the portion size.

Well, and you know what? We can get into the weeds on food addiction theory. The interesting thing is, is when you look at what are the causes and conditions that might create this? It could be a belief system. I shouldn't have sugar or I shouldn't have too much sugar. I can have a quote moderate amount if I follow just the portion size.

And then the moment you have like two cookies instead of three, then what happens? If you haven't been getting enough to eat, that's going to increase the intensity of desire for sweets because our body survives by carbs. I've never met anyone who's contacted me and said, Evelyn, I have this issue with kale. I can't stop eating it.

And then the moment you have like two cookies instead of three, then what happens? If you haven't been getting enough to eat, that's going to increase the intensity of desire for sweets because our body survives by carbs. I've never met anyone who's contacted me and said, Evelyn, I have this issue with kale. I can't stop eating it.

It's usually a carb thing and often sugar because that's what the body needs in order to survive. In fact, we even have a carbohydrate storage form in the brain. We have glycogen in the brain. It's so important. So biological deprivation can feel that sweet desire. Psychological deprivation, meaning I can't have it or I shouldn't have it too much. And these things can cause you to cross the line.

It's usually a carb thing and often sugar because that's what the body needs in order to survive. In fact, we even have a carbohydrate storage form in the brain. We have glycogen in the brain. It's so important. So biological deprivation can feel that sweet desire. Psychological deprivation, meaning I can't have it or I shouldn't have it too much. And these things can cause you to cross the line.

And then there's also just patterns of eating. Some cultures have a sweet or sweets after finishing a meal. And there's actually really nothing bad with that. But if you believe that what you're doing is wrong, that you're one bite away from a sugar binge, that creates kind of a scarcity mindset to some level.

And then there's also just patterns of eating. Some cultures have a sweet or sweets after finishing a meal. And there's actually really nothing bad with that. But if you believe that what you're doing is wrong, that you're one bite away from a sugar binge, that creates kind of a scarcity mindset to some level.

You know, it's so interesting that you come to that perspective of a child because that's where our research is rooted, that kids are natural intuitive eaters.

You know, it's so interesting that you come to that perspective of a child because that's where our research is rooted, that kids are natural intuitive eaters.

And, you know, the thing that I think is important to help in the understanding of this, this all got started because Elise and I were witnessing the suffering for so many people dieting, so many people outsourcing their eating decisions to some guru, some expert, some meal plan at the expense of losing trust in themselves, trust in their abilities.

And, you know, the thing that I think is important to help in the understanding of this, this all got started because Elise and I were witnessing the suffering for so many people dieting, so many people outsourcing their eating decisions to some guru, some expert, some meal plan at the expense of losing trust in themselves, trust in their abilities.

So, Abby, can I ask you? Yes, please. You know, appetite, speaking one athlete to another, former in my case. Marathon training, I had tremendous appetite. People used to tease me. I've had people say, oh, my God, you're eating a lot of food. And my response would be, I'm an athlete. I need to train like one. And so...

So, Abby, can I ask you? Yes, please. You know, appetite, speaking one athlete to another, former in my case. Marathon training, I had tremendous appetite. People used to tease me. I've had people say, oh, my God, you're eating a lot of food. And my response would be, I'm an athlete. I need to train like one. And so...

My experience has been people not seeing a woman eat, first of all, and to eat in quantities that can rival what a man's eating, because I'm training like a lot. And so I'm wondering when you talk about your appetites, if that's also a byproduct of your training. Yeah, it's normal. In other words, to have the appetite.

My experience has been people not seeing a woman eat, first of all, and to eat in quantities that can rival what a man's eating, because I'm training like a lot. And so I'm wondering when you talk about your appetites, if that's also a byproduct of your training. Yeah, it's normal. In other words, to have the appetite.

Yeah, so I want to offer a suggestion just for you to think about. And it's been my experience that the people I work with who engage in intermittent fasting has been the stepping stone into problematic eating. I've seen a lot of binge eating. There's been studies now with binge eating correlated with that. You lose muscle mass when you do that. At least that's what some of the studies have shown.

Yeah, so I want to offer a suggestion just for you to think about. And it's been my experience that the people I work with who engage in intermittent fasting has been the stepping stone into problematic eating. I've seen a lot of binge eating. There's been studies now with binge eating correlated with that. You lose muscle mass when you do that. At least that's what some of the studies have shown.

So it's just something to think about. And then remember I was saying earlier about anti-fat bias being in healthcare and institutionalized. When you start looking at all the research around weight, it's all of this epidemiological research, meaning it's association, not causation.

So it's just something to think about. And then remember I was saying earlier about anti-fat bias being in healthcare and institutionalized. When you start looking at all the research around weight, it's all of this epidemiological research, meaning it's association, not causation.

And when you start getting into the weeds on this, which is a hobby of mine, they don't control for really important things like social determinants of health, like trauma, like weight cycling, like weight stigma, this all can have an impact on that. And then having this fear quote of weight gain because of health, that gets you into diet culture, but now it's holy, it's noble, you know?

And when you start getting into the weeds on this, which is a hobby of mine, they don't control for really important things like social determinants of health, like trauma, like weight cycling, like weight stigma, this all can have an impact on that. And then having this fear quote of weight gain because of health, that gets you into diet culture, but now it's holy, it's noble, you know?

And regardless of the reason to be concerned about weight, it doesn't change the outcome data. So those are some things I'd have you just take a look at. And I'm not your, you know, nutritionist or anything, but that's something I would be wondering if that's kind of feeling a little bit of the sugar desire. The desire is there. I love sweets, by the way.

And regardless of the reason to be concerned about weight, it doesn't change the outcome data. So those are some things I'd have you just take a look at. And I'm not your, you know, nutritionist or anything, but that's something I would be wondering if that's kind of feeling a little bit of the sugar desire. The desire is there. I love sweets, by the way.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying sweets, but the fear is what I'm hearing there. You're one bite away from mayhem. Yes.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying sweets, but the fear is what I'm hearing there. You're one bite away from mayhem. Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

I can't tell you the amount of women I've had in my office who are crying. Very, very smart, successful women like... they'll say, I know the calories of a single pea and I don't know how to fucking eat. And that kind of is the background of this. And then to answer your question, what is it? It's basically you are in charge of your eating by listening to the messages of your body.

I can't tell you the amount of women I've had in my office who are crying. Very, very smart, successful women like... they'll say, I know the calories of a single pea and I don't know how to fucking eat. And that kind of is the background of this. And then to answer your question, what is it? It's basically you are in charge of your eating by listening to the messages of your body.

That's the big question, isn't it? You know, there was a study published, oh, my God, over 20 years ago, kind of looking at this focus that we have on this desire for health and protection and this desire to not be killed by what we eat. That's my paraphrase. And the researcher didn't say it that way.

That's the big question, isn't it? You know, there was a study published, oh, my God, over 20 years ago, kind of looking at this focus that we have on this desire for health and protection and this desire to not be killed by what we eat. That's my paraphrase. And the researcher didn't say it that way.

But one of the things the researcher said that really to me was really ahead of his time was like, you know. We're so worried about what's going to kill or cure us in terms of the food. We need to start looking at what is the impact of this worry or this anxiety? That's not healthy on our body. You know, that increases stress, which is not a positive thing also.

But one of the things the researcher said that really to me was really ahead of his time was like, you know. We're so worried about what's going to kill or cure us in terms of the food. We need to start looking at what is the impact of this worry or this anxiety? That's not healthy on our body. You know, that increases stress, which is not a positive thing also.

And I think we really need to get back to enjoying our food. And one of the things I see is that there seems to be... oh my gosh, every decade, almost every year, even there's always a new food that's going to save you. And there's some food that's going to be demonized. We certainly saw it with the low fat craze. Then we saw it with the keto, all those kinds of things.

And I think we really need to get back to enjoying our food. And one of the things I see is that there seems to be... oh my gosh, every decade, almost every year, even there's always a new food that's going to save you. And there's some food that's going to be demonized. We certainly saw it with the low fat craze. Then we saw it with the keto, all those kinds of things.

And now it's like, oh my God, watch out for ultra processed foods and all those kinds of things. And yet in those conversations of fear mongering, we don't hear how most vegetarian foods are actually, are one of the highest categories of ultra processed foods. So are vitamins, so are supplements. And so there's a lot of hypocrisy that I see or one-sided arguments on this.

And now it's like, oh my God, watch out for ultra processed foods and all those kinds of things. And yet in those conversations of fear mongering, we don't hear how most vegetarian foods are actually, are one of the highest categories of ultra processed foods. So are vitamins, so are supplements. And so there's a lot of hypocrisy that I see or one-sided arguments on this.

And what it's doing is scaring people. And with that fear, then you turn that inside. You don't trust yourself because of all these things that are happening. And I share with you, Glennon, having a healthy suspicion, you know, skepticism. I said to my patients, like, oh, I wish you would have had that when you started dieting, you know, but you didn't know any better.

And what it's doing is scaring people. And with that fear, then you turn that inside. You don't trust yourself because of all these things that are happening. And I share with you, Glennon, having a healthy suspicion, you know, skepticism. I said to my patients, like, oh, I wish you would have had that when you started dieting, you know, but you didn't know any better.

And everyone gets all excited about the latest and greatest and so on.

And everyone gets all excited about the latest and greatest and so on.

Oh, we've not seen that. Oh, my gosh.

Oh, we've not seen that. Oh, my gosh.

Wow. Wow.

Wow. Wow.

I think it's a really good question, actually. And to me, it's not an issue that it's not working. It's an issue of you probably need support. If you're going through trauma, oh my gosh. In order to feel connected to the body, you need to be present and you need to feel safe. And when you're undergoing trauma therapy, you're often not in that place.

I think it's a really good question, actually. And to me, it's not an issue that it's not working. It's an issue of you probably need support. If you're going through trauma, oh my gosh. In order to feel connected to the body, you need to be present and you need to feel safe. And when you're undergoing trauma therapy, you're often not in that place.

And so we might be using things like nourishment as self-care, kind of some scaffolding into some of the principles of intuitive eating. It's not that you can't access it. You just might need more support in doing so. That's what I would be looking at. And so if anyone at a pod squad is listening, it's like, oh my God, this sounds amazing. And yet I'm terrified.

And so we might be using things like nourishment as self-care, kind of some scaffolding into some of the principles of intuitive eating. It's not that you can't access it. You just might need more support in doing so. That's what I would be looking at. And so if anyone at a pod squad is listening, it's like, oh my God, this sounds amazing. And yet I'm terrified.

Well, maybe it'd be helpful to, you know, to work with somebody in this, because if you have an eating disorder, for example, this would be, you need to be working with your treatment team in terms of working with intuitive eating eventually and so on. So-

Well, maybe it'd be helpful to, you know, to work with somebody in this, because if you have an eating disorder, for example, this would be, you need to be working with your treatment team in terms of working with intuitive eating eventually and so on. So-

And if we get into a little bit of neuroscience, it's based on interceptive awareness.

And if we get into a little bit of neuroscience, it's based on interceptive awareness.

You need a plan. Absolutely. You're in the nutrition rehabilitation phase. And by the way, I love that term because we know, you know, to me in that phase, an eating disorder is like a broken arm or a broken bone. And you need a cast. You need structure to support the healing. The goal is not to have the cast on for the rest of your life.

You need a plan. Absolutely. You're in the nutrition rehabilitation phase. And by the way, I love that term because we know, you know, to me in that phase, an eating disorder is like a broken arm or a broken bone. And you need a cast. You need structure to support the healing. The goal is not to have the cast on for the rest of your life.

Our bodies give us these amazing text messages, letting us know how we're feeling, whether we have to go to the bathroom, whether we're anxious because of a heart rate or whether we're hungry or we're full. And we're in touch with that. It's powerful, powerful information. The challenge right now, people are at war with their bodies and they don't trust the messenger.

Our bodies give us these amazing text messages, letting us know how we're feeling, whether we have to go to the bathroom, whether we're anxious because of a heart rate or whether we're hungry or we're full. And we're in touch with that. It's powerful, powerful information. The challenge right now, people are at war with their bodies and they don't trust the messenger.

And when the sufficient amount of healing has gone on, you remove the cast and you're more into the freestyle aspect. And, you know, depending on the complexity, the more complex someone's situation is, you know, trauma history, eating disorder history or eating disorder, it's going to be complex to work through. It's workable. And I think, Glennon, you're a really good example of that.

And when the sufficient amount of healing has gone on, you remove the cast and you're more into the freestyle aspect. And, you know, depending on the complexity, the more complex someone's situation is, you know, trauma history, eating disorder history or eating disorder, it's going to be complex to work through. It's workable. And I think, Glennon, you're a really good example of that.

You give hope to a lot of people out there thinking that they're beyond hope. It's a powerful message that you have after all these years to be in recovery. It's wonderful.

You give hope to a lot of people out there thinking that they're beyond hope. It's a powerful message that you have after all these years to be in recovery. It's wonderful.

It is. Yeah. The book came out in 95. So we're looking at almost 30 years. It's just, it's wild. It's really wild. And I think because diet culture has gotten just so harmful, it's making our work even more needed. And so that's why I like to say that diet culture creates suffering. Intuitive eating is a path out of suffering. If you want out of that suffering, there's a way for you to do that.

It is. Yeah. The book came out in 95. So we're looking at almost 30 years. It's just, it's wild. It's really wild. And I think because diet culture has gotten just so harmful, it's making our work even more needed. And so that's why I like to say that diet culture creates suffering. Intuitive eating is a path out of suffering. If you want out of that suffering, there's a way for you to do that.

You don't have to suffer.

You don't have to suffer.

And less willing to grind, you know, is the byproduct of your wisdom of all the years and these kinds of things. And I don't think anyone sets out to say, oh, and we want women to suffer with her. We're going to create diet culture. It's more insidious than that. And that's often why I like to use the term suffering because no one wants to argue about suffering.

And less willing to grind, you know, is the byproduct of your wisdom of all the years and these kinds of things. And I don't think anyone sets out to say, oh, and we want women to suffer with her. We're going to create diet culture. It's more insidious than that. And that's often why I like to use the term suffering because no one wants to argue about suffering.

You know, even if someone's not ready to get into intuitive eating, most will say, yeah, I am kind of tired of suffering. And so it kind of, you know, piques their interest in that possibility. But yeah, getting more into, you know, honest to gosh, it took, in your case, it was an eating disorder.

You know, even if someone's not ready to get into intuitive eating, most will say, yeah, I am kind of tired of suffering. And so it kind of, you know, piques their interest in that possibility. But yeah, getting more into, you know, honest to gosh, it took, in your case, it was an eating disorder.

It sounds like in my case, it took a diagnosis of breast cancer and treatment to finally say, I am done with eating.

It sounds like in my case, it took a diagnosis of breast cancer and treatment to finally say, I am done with eating.

So we have a lot of work to do, Glennon.

So we have a lot of work to do, Glennon.

you know grinding staying up to three in the morning to get other things done for other people it's the first time in my life I don't feel guilty saying no and it's almost embarrassing to say that but it's yeah I'm not willing to do that anymore it's like yeah the when you learn to say yes to yourself then you the next step is you learn to say no to other people yes and then you're just a big yes no machine and then you're good and you're satisfied

you know grinding staying up to three in the morning to get other things done for other people it's the first time in my life I don't feel guilty saying no and it's almost embarrassing to say that but it's yeah I'm not willing to do that anymore it's like yeah the when you learn to say yes to yourself then you the next step is you learn to say no to other people yes and then you're just a big yes no machine and then you're good and you're satisfied

It's what I'm doing after this. Yeah.

It's what I'm doing after this. Yeah.

It's right next door. Sometimes I go out front, but next door I like. It's wrecking three to four today too. And it's looking pretty nice. Perfect. We'll have what she's having.

It's right next door. Sometimes I go out front, but next door I like. It's wrecking three to four today too. And it's looking pretty nice. Perfect. We'll have what she's having.

Yes. You got that right. Absolutely.

Yes. You got that right. Absolutely.

Wow, I've never heard anyone ask it to me in that way, but I think you're dead on. I think about the book, Rage Becomes Her, and it makes the argument of the same issue, that women have been angry for so long, and there's this fear that if we let it out, it's gonna be this amazing rage. And yet we also know with anger and rage, there's energy that can compel us to make changes and so on.

Wow, I've never heard anyone ask it to me in that way, but I think you're dead on. I think about the book, Rage Becomes Her, and it makes the argument of the same issue, that women have been angry for so long, and there's this fear that if we let it out, it's gonna be this amazing rage. And yet we also know with anger and rage, there's energy that can compel us to make changes and so on.

And when it comes to primal hunger, the thing I find with a lot of people is they really underestimate the power of biology. You know, an analogy I love giving and perhaps because I love to surf when I'm in the ocean all the time.

And when it comes to primal hunger, the thing I find with a lot of people is they really underestimate the power of biology. You know, an analogy I love giving and perhaps because I love to surf when I'm in the ocean all the time.

You know, when a big set comes, you go under and you hold your breath, you hold your breath and you hope to God when you come back up, there's not another way because you have to hold your breath longer. And when you finally hold your breath long, long, long, long, and you finally it's clear to breathe, you inhale this gasp and no one says, oh, my God, you have lost the control breathing.

You know, when a big set comes, you go under and you hold your breath, you hold your breath and you hope to God when you come back up, there's not another way because you have to hold your breath longer. And when you finally hold your breath long, long, long, long, and you finally it's clear to breathe, you inhale this gasp and no one says, oh, my God, you have lost the control breathing.

You need to manage it. You need to be on a breathing plan. And, and yet, because, you know, and this is our survival mechanism, right? To live. And we are wired that same way when it comes to nourishing our body, because without food, we will die. And I think because we have food 24 seven, we can door dash it. We can do all kinds of stuff. We really don't appreciate how strong that drive is.

You need to manage it. You need to be on a breathing plan. And, and yet, because, you know, and this is our survival mechanism, right? To live. And we are wired that same way when it comes to nourishing our body, because without food, we will die. And I think because we have food 24 seven, we can door dash it. We can do all kinds of stuff. We really don't appreciate how strong that drive is.

And so when you're walking around chronically hungry and you've got this fear, I'm one bite away from a binge. That's another way I've heard it describing. My response is, you know, it's understandable because on a biological level, your cells know, your cells know like, she hasn't been feeding me enough and I've been working out so hard and I'm so tired.

And so when you're walking around chronically hungry and you've got this fear, I'm one bite away from a binge. That's another way I've heard it describing. My response is, you know, it's understandable because on a biological level, your cells know, your cells know like, she hasn't been feeding me enough and I've been working out so hard and I'm so tired.

And so part of it is taking that brave risk and that brave leap of faith on starting to feed your body, knowing that that's part of the antidote. But when you're in that place of fear, you know, I really, I tell my patients, I respect the fear because fear

And so part of it is taking that brave risk and that brave leap of faith on starting to feed your body, knowing that that's part of the antidote. But when you're in that place of fear, you know, I really, I tell my patients, I respect the fear because fear

fear gets in the way of doing a lot of things we don't want it to hijack us but at the same time we need to look okay what do I need to feel safe in order to add this particular food to my eating in order to nourish my body and looking at those kinds of aspects so yeah there's a lot a lot there I now believe I'm in this newest iteration of recovery and I now do believe that I have a internal

fear gets in the way of doing a lot of things we don't want it to hijack us but at the same time we need to look okay what do I need to feel safe in order to add this particular food to my eating in order to nourish my body and looking at those kinds of aspects so yeah there's a lot a lot there I now believe I'm in this newest iteration of recovery and I now do believe that I have a internal

I actually really get it. And I respect that because again, there's a lot of fear to get to that place where you're at.

I actually really get it. And I respect that because again, there's a lot of fear to get to that place where you're at.

That's amazing that you're at that place that you have cultivated that trust in spite of the many years of being involved in disordered eating or eating disorders, which to me is a great message of hope for all your listeners out there who are struggling, whether they're on the edge of an eating disorder, disordered eating that, you know what, it is possible to recover.

That's amazing that you're at that place that you have cultivated that trust in spite of the many years of being involved in disordered eating or eating disorders, which to me is a great message of hope for all your listeners out there who are struggling, whether they're on the edge of an eating disorder, disordered eating that, you know what, it is possible to recover.

It is possible to reclaim this self-trust. But it takes work, as you know.

It is possible to reclaim this self-trust. But it takes work, as you know.

It's so complex, as you know. So one exercise I like to do with my patients is I call it your body lineage, and that is looking at your family of origin. What was your earliest message of what a body should look like and how a body should be treated? We look at parents, we look at the messaging through the life cycle up to the age of someone is seeing me. We look at siblings.

It's so complex, as you know. So one exercise I like to do with my patients is I call it your body lineage, and that is looking at your family of origin. What was your earliest message of what a body should look like and how a body should be treated? We look at parents, we look at the messaging through the life cycle up to the age of someone is seeing me. We look at siblings.

Was there teasing involved in what your parents do and did the parenting match? their normal parenting style. And often what I see is the teasing goes undisciplined and it makes it seem like it's okay. Then we look at grandparents, aunties and uncles. What was the messaging there? Was there body gossip when you went to family events?

Was there teasing involved in what your parents do and did the parenting match? their normal parenting style. And often what I see is the teasing goes undisciplined and it makes it seem like it's okay. Then we look at grandparents, aunties and uncles. What was the messaging there? Was there body gossip when you went to family events?

And what's really sad now is I am seeing patients who are second and third generational dieters. Their grandma's been dieting. And so you get that, and then that's just our family of origin. And now let's expand to the world around us. Social media, media, media, all of these messages that you are one bite away, man, from killing yourself, or you're one bite away from curing yourself.

And what's really sad now is I am seeing patients who are second and third generational dieters. Their grandma's been dieting. And so you get that, and then that's just our family of origin. And now let's expand to the world around us. Social media, media, media, all of these messages that you are one bite away, man, from killing yourself, or you're one bite away from curing yourself.

And eating is so much more nuanced than that. And so it gets really, really complex. And the thing I like to emphasize with parents, I have not yet met a parent who doesn't want the best for their kids. And a lot of these things they do are a couple of things. One, it's really well-meaning.

And eating is so much more nuanced than that. And so it gets really, really complex. And the thing I like to emphasize with parents, I have not yet met a parent who doesn't want the best for their kids. And a lot of these things they do are a couple of things. One, it's really well-meaning.

And sometimes, obviously, I don't know your parents, but sometimes what's happening is the parents are projecting their own insecurities onto their kids. They doubt their ability. I'll give you an example with my son. It came up as you were giving your story. When he was two years old, I made this amazing meal. I just, I remember it. Lasagna, salad, my favorite cake.

I don't know why I did it all for me, but I did. And the family loved it too. So I serve everyone the same size of cake. He finishes his meal. He finished his cake and he looks at me, goes more mommy. And the mommy in me is thinking, dude, you've had enough to eat. But the intuitive is like, you know what? Let him have cake. I've served him another piece, the exact same size. You know what he did?

he ate one piece, he ate one bite rather, and off he went. And so what that does, I was thinking, my God, if my patients that I see their parents witness that, they see the self-regulation, but if they are tightly wound and they're afraid, they might over-regulate and say, oh, you know, do you think you really need that piece? Or in the case of your dad, you know, what is your tummy telling you?

What's your messages? And those kinds of things. So it gets really, really complex. And One of the things I aspire to for families is, you know, diet culture out there is just so, so nasty and so pathological. And the idea of changing culture is so big. But what if we simplify and said, you know, what if we end the legacy of diet culture at our own kitchen table, at least home? Yeah.

Is a safer space to the degree that that's possible. We don't disparage bodies. We don't disparage food and those kinds of things because the world outside is tough enough. And I have a lot of young parents who really, when they hear that message, like, oh, I can aspire to, I can do that.

I want to do that for my kids because they understand the suffering that they've been through with all the dieting and all the stuff that goes on, all the noise around diet culture.

And so that's done on a regular basis. And I want to emphasize generally one episode is not going to make or break a kid's childhood. So parents out there thinking, oh, my God, I did that with my kids. Like, what do you do on a regular basis is what I would be looking at. That's a really, really good point.

It's trusting. And you know, and I love what you just said. And that is my body is working. And that's something I have a lot of my patients do is to identify when their body is working. They'll come in sometimes and they're really pissed off because they got really, really hungry and ate a lot, a lot of food. It's like, well, let's unpack this and see what's going on.

Oh, well, they had an early lunch at 11. They got pulled into a meeting after work. Then they went and worked out and they got home at eight o'clock. They haven't eaten in eight hours. And it's like, you know, I understand it was really annoying for you. And yet what I want you to see is your body's working. Your body's like, I have I haven't had enough to eat. Feed me, please.

And what's really needed besides the trust is consistency for the most part on a regular basis that if you want your body to trust you, I mean, even all this time of deprivation, it needs to be fed consistently, nourished consistently to the degree that that's possible. We don't have to be perfect. I want to emphasize it's not a perfect process.

You know what? It really depends. When I'm working with someone, they're usually seeing me because they're having more challenges than the average. And so sometimes I might create together, joint create some scaffolding to help them honor their hunger. And so having regular meals can be really helpful.

I'll never forget back when I was training, I was back in my competitive days of marathon training. I would go over to my grandma's who lived out in a rural area and because I could train with no stoplights and stuff. And she would eat dinner every day at five o'clock. And I'm like, I'm not hungry. But by the end of the week, I was hungry at five. Because our bodies get used to this.

So yeah, that can be a method if that's helpful. I would certainly check that out and experiment and see.

Basically, I would say it's having self-efficacy. You trust yourself and you don't rely on external or other people to make decisions, whether it's around your eating, career choices, all of those kinds of things. So it's trusting your inner guidance. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, that's so true. Absolutely. Yeah. And it might work for that discoverer, but not for you, not your body. Yes.

Yeah.

I see it all the time. In fact, at least I get unsolicited emails and DMs that this has changed my life. Back when I was talking about the intercept of awareness, you know, that is our body's way of self-regulation at a biological level, but it includes emotions. And when you are in touch with that, it helps get your needs met. And what ends up happening is it clears up brain space.

So yes, you trust yourself in your decisions, but now you have more ease, ease in living, ease in eating. You're present at conversations. I can't tell you the amount of patients I've worked with where yeah, they were there at the dinner with their girlfriend or their partner or their family, but their mind was somewhere else. Their mind was calculating how they're going to compensate.

And so they're not present in the relationship. So that's the other thing that ends up happening. There's more presence in the relationship, which is incredible.

Well, and I'll tell you what, I've worked with a fair amount of elite athletes who then retire. And what ends up happening many times is, well, many people take them as size, like, well, you better watch it. You can't eat the same amount of food you've been eating now. And it creates this doubt and it creates this vigilance about the eating when this person never had an issue with food before.

But because of all of this mistrust, here we're back to the fear again, you start second guessing yourself, you know?

And you're right, it is a conditioning. It's a social conditioning. And if you want to really trace back the roots, we can get into slavery, fear of the black body, misogyny, capitalism. There's all kinds of things. And there's this fascinating framework called Bobby Harrow's Cycle of Socialization. And it shows how we are born into this world, you know, innocent. We're not hating our body.

But as we start getting these messages from our trusted family, caregivers and so on, as it gets into our institutions, in our schools, in our policies and so on, then there are rewards and punishments. If you, you know, conform to what they consider the norm and people don't want to be treated badly.

You know, if you're in a larger body, it's awful and stressful to wonder, am I going to be able to fit on that airplane? Is that seatbelt extender going to work for me? If I go to a roller coaster ride and amusement park with my kids, will I be able to go on the ride with them? Because the world was not built for people in larger bodies.

So the anti-fat bias is unfortunately alive and well, and it's in healthcare. And it just, oh my gosh, the medical fat phobia that creates even bigger problems and gatekeeping in terms of getting care. It's a very, very big issue. Huge. Yeah.

And someone says, I don't want to be treated that way. So I'm going to conform as if we can mold our body like it's clay. And that's the shocking part to a lot of people. They get sucked into all these diets thinking, well, this one's going to work. And yet there's a body of research showing it doesn't work. It predicts actually more weight gain.

If there's anything wrong with that, it predicts weight stigma. It predicts eating disorder risk, predicts weight cycling, which in of itself has its own health risks in terms of cardiovascular mortality and all kinds of issues around there. And sometimes I think it's like a form of virtual signaling. Look how good I am. Yes.

Because I eat this way. You know, it's like the day I don't remember when this was because now it's happened so much. It's a sad norm that you go to have a meal with family and friends and someone's apologizing for what they're eating or they're explaining. You don't need to explain to anyone why you're eating or why you're not eating.

Let's just break bread and enjoy the conversation and catch up with ourselves and so on. So it's a cultural neuroses that we have. It's global. I see it all over the place.

Yeah. And denying your exhaustion. And, you know, Abby, you mentioned this earlier about primal exhaustion, because another trend I see a lot with people who are especially overexercising. And one of the ways I ask about this is, you know, if you're feeling an injury coming on, can you take a break? If you're feeling sick, can you take a break?

And if the answer is no, no, no, then I will ask, do you have a fear that if you stop working out, you're never going to work out again? Yes, how did you know? And I said, well, because I think your body's exhausted. And I see you smiling, Abby, with that. And what I see is if someone's had the love of sport or the love of movement, it will come back, but your body just needs this big old rest.

There's nothing wrong with you. It's just you're exhausted.

Yeah.

Yeah. And so aiming for satisfaction is a great way to center your, your eating. Um, And by the way, I want to also say, you know, I've had some people think that eating has to be a 10 every time. The meal has to be Nirvana. It's like, no, sometimes it's a pair of boring, sensible shoes. It's going to get the job done and that's okay.

But when you can eat to the point of satisfaction and you know, you can have that food again. I knew that wasn't not going to be the last time I was going to have cake. It's not a big deal. And sometimes, honestly, I feel a little sad. It's like, oh, I'm by the way, I forgot to mention, I'm here in Hawaii working remotely so I can surf and you might be hearing waves in the background, but

And there's a restaurant here that I love. It's got my favorite desserts. It's hula pie. It's macadamia nuts, ice cream with chocolate fudge. And I get sad when I'm full because like, oh, it tastes so good, but I'm not willing to feel uncomfortable to eat the rest of it. And I know I can have it again whenever I want to. And I realize there's privilege in that as well.

I want to state that as well.

And by the way, I will say that when people are newish into intuitive eating and have a long history of deprivation, what sometimes can happen is that sadness of feeling full because you still want to eat can feel devastating. It's me. Oh yeah. Okay. So that is actually more of a reflection of the year spent in deprivation.

And so what I say is that will ease up as your body mind gets to see, oh, you're going to have that food again. You're going to have that food again. And you know, you can still eat it right now if you want to, but do you want to feel that way that you might be feeling? And maybe you can, you know, save it. Maybe you can make a promise. You're going to have it again.

You'll go back, you know, the next day or whatever it happens to be with that, what that food is. So that's, it's normal. There's nothing wrong with you. You're not aberrant because you're so sad that, oh, I'm so full. Or you're so excited about trying a new food. I get patients so excited. I really get to eat the cake. It's like, yeah. And then they feel guilty. They're so hard on themselves.

Then they feel guilty because they're excited. It's like, you know, you have freedom, maybe for the first time. And that's pretty exciting. Nothing wrong with that. It's normal to feel excited and anxious. All the feels, all at the same time. Nothing wrong with you. It's the human experience.

Yeah. And part of it is figuring out something really basic. What am I feeling? What do I need? And then sometimes I'll do even what I call the universal attunement question. And that is one of three answers. How do you feel right now? Pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral? And our brain naturally organizes that way in terms of like, don't like, or kind of neutral.

And if the description is, oh, I'm feeling unpleasant, then the question, oh, why might that be? Maybe they're hungry. Maybe they're sad and need companionship. But starting to get into that. And so many, we've been talking about women, have been so other focused at the expense of not getting your own needs met. And that's where the problem happens.

There's nothing wrong with being service oriented. But when your own needs are not being met, that's when it becomes a problem.

Yeah. And you know, what's interesting when people are sucked into diet culture, whether it's an eating disorder or just diet culture, dieting, or trying to eat the healthiest way that you can, there's, and this doesn't get talked about enough. There is a profound level of self-absorption that goes on and it's a hope. Thank you.

Whenever I bring it up to my patients, I'm really delicate because I don't want to sound like I'm criticizing them. But when you're so self-absorbed, first of all, it's understandable to survival response on some level, but that means you're not aware of what's going on around you. And it's it becomes really problematic.

And there was this famous study done during World War two, where they took men who were conscious objectors. They were very healthy and in mind and body, put them on a semi starvation diet. And what they found is that these men became incredibly self-absorbed. They became obsessed about eating again. This is during World War two. There was no TV food network and chefs.

So I was running around and all I could talk about is food and collect recipes and cookbooks. And some of those men developed eating disorders. Again, they started off very, very healthy in mind and body. So it's an example of what food restriction can do to your mind and body. It's really profound. We can't underestimate it.

In fact, I've got to tell you, you entered my heart during COVID when your book tour got canceled and you were sitting on your couch in your colorful jacket thinking, screw it, I'm going to read from my book in my presentation jacket. And that's when I knew I loved you. Oh, thank you. I read your book back then, too. So.

Yeah, I want to do at least two. It's so hard. It's like asking to name your children. Which one should we start with? And one of the ones I want to start with is rejecting diet culture, rejecting diet mentality. There has been a misperception that you can't do intuitive eating if there's a part of you that still wants to be in a smaller body. And my response is, you know what?

You're a human being. We're living in a weight-obsessed culture. Of course you can come in. You can come into this and be confused and not sure. This is not a journey of perfection. This is not a journey of pass or fail. All are welcome. The issue... becomes what you're willing to act on is can you center the work of intuitive eating?

And yes, we acknowledge that this desire of weight loss is in the room, and we'll talk about that as much as you need to. But in other words, like on a computer, the active screen is the intuitive eating because that's inner base, as we were talking about earlier. And the moment you start focusing about weight, that becomes external and the work needs to be really internal.

So that you can start to experience and hear and respond in a timely manner and trust those messages in the body. And I think the other one, I think Elise would agree with me on this. Probably the most organizing principle of all of them would be aiming for satisfaction. Because ultimately, it's not satisfying to under eat. Ultimately, it's not.

satisfying to eat to a point where you're past comfortable full and so in a really weird way aiming for satisfaction gets you into balance and it's pleasure-based most people i have worked with have not ever come across that as a way to start working with their eating and so you get to get curious it's very very personal and so often i will say you know when i'm doing interviews if you want to take one step that could be a step what would be a satisfying meal for you

What would be a satisfying snack? And I've had patients say, I have no idea. And they start crying. They don't know what their favorite foods are because they have been so conditioned to follow the plan, to follow the guru. And it's important that we have a lot of self-compassion on this journey.

As you had been describing your own story, Glenn, and there's a lot of revelations that end up happening. It's like, oh my God, I was like this. And that's okay. You didn't know. You didn't know any better. Now you're starting to know differently. And when we know better, we do better. So those are two I'd be working with.

Another one, and this gets a lot of misunderstandings, is making peace with food, which basically means you can eat whatever food that you want to. And I have patients that are terrified of that. And I don't push that when they're not ready to work on that. And so sometimes I might look at, and there's a big psychology on this, a lot of research on habituation.

And habituation is this phenomenon dealing with novelty. So if you think about the first time you had a new pair of shoes that you just couldn't wait to have, or a new car, it could be an old car, but it's a new car to you and how exciting it is. And after a year of having us, I asked my ride. Yeah.

And the best way I've ever heard described by a researcher was, you know, imagine you're falling in love for the first time with somebody. And at some point they say, I love you. And it's amazing. It's magical. You're floating on air. But five years later, you're in a committed relationship. They say, I love you and it's wonderful to hear, but it's not that same magical feeling.

Well, so I have a sense, but I don't want to assume anything. So that's the best way to go. Not to assume for me.

And so with making peace with food, it's about having the habituation process because when you're constantly on some food plan, some dieting plan, some restriction, food stays exciting and food stays scary. The habituation process hasn't taken place yet. And then there's this whole other area.

It's known as the restraint theory, but what it's known as its nickname, it's the what the hell effect of eating. And that is when someone has a lot of restraint around eating, they have rigid rules, something comes along to break that restraint. And it could be an event, it can be an emotion, it can be a food. And all of a sudden, it's like, oh, I'm never gonna eat that food again.

So I'm gonna get it all now while I can. And it ends up becoming an all or none kind of food feast. So making peace is really about the psychology of having ease with your eating, whatever that food happens to be. It's amazing in that process. Yes.

Well, and you know what? We can get into the weeds on food addiction theory. The interesting thing is, is when you look at what are the causes and conditions that might create this? It could be a belief system. I shouldn't have sugar or I shouldn't have too much sugar. I can have a quote moderate amount if I follow just the portion size.

And then the moment you have like two cookies instead of three, then what happens? If you haven't been getting enough to eat, that's going to increase the intensity of desire for sweets because our body survives by carbs. I've never met anyone who's contacted me and said, Evelyn, I have this issue with kale. I can't stop eating it.

It's usually a carb thing and often sugar because that's what the body needs in order to survive. In fact, we even have a carbohydrate storage form in the brain. We have glycogen in the brain. It's so important. So biological deprivation can feel that sweet desire. Psychological deprivation, meaning I can't have it or I shouldn't have it too much. And these things can cause you to cross the line.

And then there's also just patterns of eating. Some cultures have a sweet or sweets after finishing a meal. And there's actually really nothing bad with that. But if you believe that what you're doing is wrong, that you're one bite away from a sugar binge, that creates kind of a scarcity mindset to some level.

You know, it's so interesting that you come to that perspective of a child because that's where our research is rooted, that kids are natural intuitive eaters.

And, you know, the thing that I think is important to help in the understanding of this, this all got started because Elise and I were witnessing the suffering for so many people dieting, so many people outsourcing their eating decisions to some guru, some expert, some meal plan at the expense of losing trust in themselves, trust in their abilities.

So, Abby, can I ask you? Yes, please. You know, appetite, speaking one athlete to another, former in my case. Marathon training, I had tremendous appetite. People used to tease me. I've had people say, oh, my God, you're eating a lot of food. And my response would be, I'm an athlete. I need to train like one. And so...

My experience has been people not seeing a woman eat, first of all, and to eat in quantities that can rival what a man's eating, because I'm training like a lot. And so I'm wondering when you talk about your appetites, if that's also a byproduct of your training. Yeah, it's normal. In other words, to have the appetite.

Yeah, so I want to offer a suggestion just for you to think about. And it's been my experience that the people I work with who engage in intermittent fasting has been the stepping stone into problematic eating. I've seen a lot of binge eating. There's been studies now with binge eating correlated with that. You lose muscle mass when you do that. At least that's what some of the studies have shown.

So it's just something to think about. And then remember I was saying earlier about anti-fat bias being in healthcare and institutionalized. When you start looking at all the research around weight, it's all of this epidemiological research, meaning it's association, not causation.

And when you start getting into the weeds on this, which is a hobby of mine, they don't control for really important things like social determinants of health, like trauma, like weight cycling, like weight stigma, this all can have an impact on that. And then having this fear quote of weight gain because of health, that gets you into diet culture, but now it's holy, it's noble, you know?

And regardless of the reason to be concerned about weight, it doesn't change the outcome data. So those are some things I'd have you just take a look at. And I'm not your, you know, nutritionist or anything, but that's something I would be wondering if that's kind of feeling a little bit of the sugar desire. The desire is there. I love sweets, by the way.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying sweets, but the fear is what I'm hearing there. You're one bite away from mayhem. Yes.

Yes.

I can't tell you the amount of women I've had in my office who are crying. Very, very smart, successful women like... they'll say, I know the calories of a single pea and I don't know how to fucking eat. And that kind of is the background of this. And then to answer your question, what is it? It's basically you are in charge of your eating by listening to the messages of your body.

That's the big question, isn't it? You know, there was a study published, oh, my God, over 20 years ago, kind of looking at this focus that we have on this desire for health and protection and this desire to not be killed by what we eat. That's my paraphrase. And the researcher didn't say it that way.

But one of the things the researcher said that really to me was really ahead of his time was like, you know. We're so worried about what's going to kill or cure us in terms of the food. We need to start looking at what is the impact of this worry or this anxiety? That's not healthy on our body. You know, that increases stress, which is not a positive thing also.

And I think we really need to get back to enjoying our food. And one of the things I see is that there seems to be... oh my gosh, every decade, almost every year, even there's always a new food that's going to save you. And there's some food that's going to be demonized. We certainly saw it with the low fat craze. Then we saw it with the keto, all those kinds of things.

And now it's like, oh my God, watch out for ultra processed foods and all those kinds of things. And yet in those conversations of fear mongering, we don't hear how most vegetarian foods are actually, are one of the highest categories of ultra processed foods. So are vitamins, so are supplements. And so there's a lot of hypocrisy that I see or one-sided arguments on this.

And what it's doing is scaring people. And with that fear, then you turn that inside. You don't trust yourself because of all these things that are happening. And I share with you, Glennon, having a healthy suspicion, you know, skepticism. I said to my patients, like, oh, I wish you would have had that when you started dieting, you know, but you didn't know any better.

And everyone gets all excited about the latest and greatest and so on.

Oh, we've not seen that. Oh, my gosh.

Wow. Wow.

I think it's a really good question, actually. And to me, it's not an issue that it's not working. It's an issue of you probably need support. If you're going through trauma, oh my gosh. In order to feel connected to the body, you need to be present and you need to feel safe. And when you're undergoing trauma therapy, you're often not in that place.

And so we might be using things like nourishment as self-care, kind of some scaffolding into some of the principles of intuitive eating. It's not that you can't access it. You just might need more support in doing so. That's what I would be looking at. And so if anyone at a pod squad is listening, it's like, oh my God, this sounds amazing. And yet I'm terrified.

Well, maybe it'd be helpful to, you know, to work with somebody in this, because if you have an eating disorder, for example, this would be, you need to be working with your treatment team in terms of working with intuitive eating eventually and so on. So-

And if we get into a little bit of neuroscience, it's based on interceptive awareness.

You need a plan. Absolutely. You're in the nutrition rehabilitation phase. And by the way, I love that term because we know, you know, to me in that phase, an eating disorder is like a broken arm or a broken bone. And you need a cast. You need structure to support the healing. The goal is not to have the cast on for the rest of your life.

Our bodies give us these amazing text messages, letting us know how we're feeling, whether we have to go to the bathroom, whether we're anxious because of a heart rate or whether we're hungry or we're full. And we're in touch with that. It's powerful, powerful information. The challenge right now, people are at war with their bodies and they don't trust the messenger.

And when the sufficient amount of healing has gone on, you remove the cast and you're more into the freestyle aspect. And, you know, depending on the complexity, the more complex someone's situation is, you know, trauma history, eating disorder history or eating disorder, it's going to be complex to work through. It's workable. And I think, Glennon, you're a really good example of that.

You give hope to a lot of people out there thinking that they're beyond hope. It's a powerful message that you have after all these years to be in recovery. It's wonderful.

It is. Yeah. The book came out in 95. So we're looking at almost 30 years. It's just, it's wild. It's really wild. And I think because diet culture has gotten just so harmful, it's making our work even more needed. And so that's why I like to say that diet culture creates suffering. Intuitive eating is a path out of suffering. If you want out of that suffering, there's a way for you to do that.

You don't have to suffer.

And less willing to grind, you know, is the byproduct of your wisdom of all the years and these kinds of things. And I don't think anyone sets out to say, oh, and we want women to suffer with her. We're going to create diet culture. It's more insidious than that. And that's often why I like to use the term suffering because no one wants to argue about suffering.

You know, even if someone's not ready to get into intuitive eating, most will say, yeah, I am kind of tired of suffering. And so it kind of, you know, piques their interest in that possibility. But yeah, getting more into, you know, honest to gosh, it took, in your case, it was an eating disorder.

It sounds like in my case, it took a diagnosis of breast cancer and treatment to finally say, I am done with eating.

So we have a lot of work to do, Glennon.

you know grinding staying up to three in the morning to get other things done for other people it's the first time in my life I don't feel guilty saying no and it's almost embarrassing to say that but it's yeah I'm not willing to do that anymore it's like yeah the when you learn to say yes to yourself then you the next step is you learn to say no to other people yes and then you're just a big yes no machine and then you're good and you're satisfied

It's what I'm doing after this. Yeah.

It's right next door. Sometimes I go out front, but next door I like. It's wrecking three to four today too. And it's looking pretty nice. Perfect. We'll have what she's having.

Yes. You got that right. Absolutely.

Wow, I've never heard anyone ask it to me in that way, but I think you're dead on. I think about the book, Rage Becomes Her, and it makes the argument of the same issue, that women have been angry for so long, and there's this fear that if we let it out, it's gonna be this amazing rage. And yet we also know with anger and rage, there's energy that can compel us to make changes and so on.

And when it comes to primal hunger, the thing I find with a lot of people is they really underestimate the power of biology. You know, an analogy I love giving and perhaps because I love to surf when I'm in the ocean all the time.

You know, when a big set comes, you go under and you hold your breath, you hold your breath and you hope to God when you come back up, there's not another way because you have to hold your breath longer. And when you finally hold your breath long, long, long, long, and you finally it's clear to breathe, you inhale this gasp and no one says, oh, my God, you have lost the control breathing.

You need to manage it. You need to be on a breathing plan. And, and yet, because, you know, and this is our survival mechanism, right? To live. And we are wired that same way when it comes to nourishing our body, because without food, we will die. And I think because we have food 24 seven, we can door dash it. We can do all kinds of stuff. We really don't appreciate how strong that drive is.

And so when you're walking around chronically hungry and you've got this fear, I'm one bite away from a binge. That's another way I've heard it describing. My response is, you know, it's understandable because on a biological level, your cells know, your cells know like, she hasn't been feeding me enough and I've been working out so hard and I'm so tired.

And so part of it is taking that brave risk and that brave leap of faith on starting to feed your body, knowing that that's part of the antidote. But when you're in that place of fear, you know, I really, I tell my patients, I respect the fear because fear

fear gets in the way of doing a lot of things we don't want it to hijack us but at the same time we need to look okay what do I need to feel safe in order to add this particular food to my eating in order to nourish my body and looking at those kinds of aspects so yeah there's a lot a lot there I now believe I'm in this newest iteration of recovery and I now do believe that I have a internal

I actually really get it. And I respect that because again, there's a lot of fear to get to that place where you're at.

That's amazing that you're at that place that you have cultivated that trust in spite of the many years of being involved in disordered eating or eating disorders, which to me is a great message of hope for all your listeners out there who are struggling, whether they're on the edge of an eating disorder, disordered eating that, you know what, it is possible to recover.

It is possible to reclaim this self-trust. But it takes work, as you know.

It's so complex, as you know. So one exercise I like to do with my patients is I call it your body lineage, and that is looking at your family of origin. What was your earliest message of what a body should look like and how a body should be treated? We look at parents, we look at the messaging through the life cycle up to the age of someone is seeing me. We look at siblings.

Was there teasing involved in what your parents do and did the parenting match? their normal parenting style. And often what I see is the teasing goes undisciplined and it makes it seem like it's okay. Then we look at grandparents, aunties and uncles. What was the messaging there? Was there body gossip when you went to family events?

And what's really sad now is I am seeing patients who are second and third generational dieters. Their grandma's been dieting. And so you get that, and then that's just our family of origin. And now let's expand to the world around us. Social media, media, media, all of these messages that you are one bite away, man, from killing yourself, or you're one bite away from curing yourself.

And eating is so much more nuanced than that. And so it gets really, really complex. And the thing I like to emphasize with parents, I have not yet met a parent who doesn't want the best for their kids. And a lot of these things they do are a couple of things. One, it's really well-meaning.