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Expert Guest

๐Ÿ‘ค Speaker
345 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss

I think the biggest thing in practice is people imagine getting it wrong. When in point of fact, in real life, if you get these skills wrong, it works in a different way. And it tells you that getting it wrong ain't bad. Like I practice on a TSA people all the time. Cause I go through airports all the time, you know, and they're there and they get tough jobs.

The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss

I think the biggest thing in practice is people imagine getting it wrong. When in point of fact, in real life, if you get these skills wrong, it works in a different way. And it tells you that getting it wrong ain't bad. Like I practice on a TSA people all the time. Cause I go through airports all the time, you know, and they're there and they get tough jobs.

The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss

So I'm rolling through TSA one day and I realized I haven't, you know, thrown a label on verbal observation on anybody. Here's my bags coming out. I look at this guy. He's kind of standing there like it's just an average day. And I go, tough day? Because usually it is a tough day. But you need the data showing you. And he just, so I missed. I was wrong. And he reacts, like shakes it off.

The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss

So I'm rolling through TSA one day and I realized I haven't, you know, thrown a label on verbal observation on anybody. Here's my bags coming out. I look at this guy. He's kind of standing there like it's just an average day. And I go, tough day? Because usually it is a tough day. But you need the data showing you. And he just, so I missed. I was wrong. And he reacts, like shakes it off.

The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss

Like, no, but not angry. And I go, oh, just another day, huh? He goes, yeah, it's just another day. So that was practice for me. And then as it turns out, because I got that practice in at that moment, five minutes later, phone rings, call, I got to take. Normally I don't take calls when I'm going through the airport because you deserve my entire attention. Right.

The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss

Like, no, but not angry. And I go, oh, just another day, huh? He goes, yeah, it's just another day. So that was practice for me. And then as it turns out, because I got that practice in at that moment, five minutes later, phone rings, call, I got to take. Normally I don't take calls when I'm going through the airport because you deserve my entire attention. Right.

The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss

And if I'm in an airport, you ain't got my entire attention. But this guy's really hard to get on a phone and a good friend. So I talked to him anyway. If I hadn't warmed up on the TSA guy and missed earlier, I wouldn't have been as sharp as I was in that call.

The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss

And if I'm in an airport, you ain't got my entire attention. But this guy's really hard to get on a phone and a good friend. So I talked to him anyway. If I hadn't warmed up on the TSA guy and missed earlier, I wouldn't have been as sharp as I was in that call.

The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, Ed Kottemel's book, the guy who founded Pixar, his book Creativity, Inc., he drills into that, the fear of failure, a lot. One of the reasons that he lays out, which I think, like when you're in grade school, if you fail, like your teachers, like there's so many penalties for failing, right?

The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, Ed Kottemel's book, the guy who founded Pixar, his book Creativity, Inc., he drills into that, the fear of failure, a lot. One of the reasons that he lays out, which I think, like when you're in grade school, if you fail, like your teachers, like there's so many penalties for failing, right?

The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss

then I think it's drilled into us early on that this failure is this horrible thing. And so we get out in the real world, we realize just on percentages, if you discard the failures, you move on to the successes if you don't let them hold your back. But we got all this conditioning, however long we were in school, that every failure was horrible.

The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss

then I think it's drilled into us early on that this failure is this horrible thing. And so we get out in the real world, we realize just on percentages, if you discard the failures, you move on to the successes if you don't let them hold your back. But we got all this conditioning, however long we were in school, that every failure was horrible.

The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss

And if we didn't have a certain amount of fear of it to begin with, in our DNA, what we're wired with, then much of the educational system reinforces it. So by the time we're adults, we have a hard time with it.

The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss

And if we didn't have a certain amount of fear of it to begin with, in our DNA, what we're wired with, then much of the educational system reinforces it. So by the time we're adults, we have a hard time with it.

The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss

Well, I mean, I was involved in one kidnapping that lasted over six years. Oh, shit. Columbia, the FARC, and I worked there for multiple years, and I left the Bureau before it was resolved. Because at that point in time, I'd lost any ability to influence the outcome of the case. And some other things happened where I was working for a supervisor that was undermining everything I did.

The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss

Well, I mean, I was involved in one kidnapping that lasted over six years. Oh, shit. Columbia, the FARC, and I worked there for multiple years, and I left the Bureau before it was resolved. Because at that point in time, I'd lost any ability to influence the outcome of the case. And some other things happened where I was working for a supervisor that was undermining everything I did.

The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss

So not only did I lose the ability to do the case, like I had a boss that he and I just didn't align. And the last time I had a boss that I didn't align with and I left, my life got better. So this was another one where I'm saying, all right, the universe is telling me to move on. I'm good with that. So that case lasted over six years.

The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss

So not only did I lose the ability to do the case, like I had a boss that he and I just didn't align. And the last time I had a boss that I didn't align with and I left, my life got better. So this was another one where I'm saying, all right, the universe is telling me to move on. I'm good with that. So that case lasted over six years.

The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss

But one I really loved, I had changed our approach in our kidnapping negotiations from the old standard proof of life to sort of a more innocent question. How do we know the hostage is alive? Basically, which is a powerful thing to ask. So we start this case and the guy gives proof of life right away. And I'm like, oh man, this guy just screwed up my new idea. I want to implement this.

The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss

But one I really loved, I had changed our approach in our kidnapping negotiations from the old standard proof of life to sort of a more innocent question. How do we know the hostage is alive? Basically, which is a powerful thing to ask. So we start this case and the guy gives proof of life right away. And I'm like, oh man, this guy just screwed up my new idea. I want to implement this.