Ezra Edelman
Appearances
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
On some level for you to enjoy now? Yeah, it is. I think there's a thousand positive things to say about it. Really everything we're already talking about. The businesses that are going to grow, the sport itself, all the things. The only negative for me personally is like, it would have been much easier to capitalize on all this as a player. I can tell you that.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Like, what is it? M&M's, only red ones. Green M&M's, no eye contact. And I want this to smell like, you know, lavender.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
It is what it is. It's not, what are you going to do? You can't change it. It's like classic. You just have to move on, let go. But I do have moments where even though the podcast doesn't feel like a grind, it's still not playing basketball. It's still not going to play the game. Even though having companies or doing speaking engagements or commercials don't feel like grinds.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Every now and then they do. It's still not playing basketball. So yeah, it would have been wonderful to be able to capitalize on all this as a player. Just because that's what I was born to do. That's why I don't think I want to let go of it.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
I don't even know what the reason would be. It is totally not comparable. And there was a boom. I know it's not. I'm trying to make it. And there was a boom. And now whatever you made on your last film, people are on a regular, on average, are making ten times that. You wouldn't be like, oh dang, I was born in the wrong year. That's all I'm saying. That's fair.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
It's not, but it's like you can't go back. There had to have been all of us before in order to get to this point. So there's something, you know, the Billie Jean King of it all. So there's that. But yeah, would I love to play basketball and get compensated?
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Okay.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Oh, I'm not complaining. It just would have been a lot easier. Because the hard's not as hard when you're doing the thing you were meant to be doing. That is true. Even when it's hard.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Why?
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
There's the new iteration when Asia got... I noticed that there was an update. Her, I can't remember, third MVP. When you became MVP once, was that fine? No. You did it thrice.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Yes, please.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Walked right into that one.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Ich glaube, jetzt zehnmal am Tag, jedes Mal, wenn sie sich umdrehen. Ich würde sagen, ich glaube, es ist weniger als thrice.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
To add to that, is it just when the subject is involved? Is that like the hard line?
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Right, but is that the only one?
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Vielleicht haben sie nicht so viel gedreht. Aber ich habe schon in Veranstaltungen gearbeitet. Du hättest mich sehen können, während ich spielte. Ich sah dich... Du hättest wahrscheinlich keine Aufmerksamkeit. Ich sah dich... Die Welt hatte keine Aufmerksamkeit.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
You came in hot.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
No, that would never be me regardless. Maybe in a playoff game. I also am just like so... I'm just so immune to the regular season.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
You did see me naked. Although blocking certain areas.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
No, I'm just like, it's a game. Not impressed by the regular season. No, yeah. Playoffs though, like it was, I'll say this, Game 5, really all the playoff games I went to this year, in New York, vor allem in der 5. Saison. Es war sehr schwierig, in meinem Platz zu bleiben. Und ich meine nicht aus Erwartung, für eine Mannschaft oder andere zu schreien.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Beide Mannschaften hatten große Spiele an verschiedenen Momenten. Beide Mannschaften hatten große Anrufe. Geh für sie, gegen sie. Es war schwer, nichts zu tun.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Looking back now, that's not really the right question. Looking back now, when you look at the schedule, they were tired.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Body issue.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
They were tired.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
I didn't.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Oh, ich habe viel davon auf den Reifen gelegt. Also, ich war sehr nah am Personal. Natürlich wissen wir, dass ich viele WNBA Spiele gespielt habe. Ich habe im Grunde das gleiche Platz wie bei allen Spielen, die ich früher gespielt habe. Das ist unglaublich. Für 20 Jahre.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
ESPN, body issue.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
That was the loosest I've ever seen a WNBA game. And WNBA games are very physical. And that was like another level, where the off-ball actions that were happening, some of the banging, some of the holding, the referees were letting that go. And you guys know, any sport, when a referee lets something go early in the game, it just builds and builds and builds. It gets worse and worse and worse.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
So I think you had two very tired teams, just naturally, from the excitement von den Emotionen der Playoffs, von der Reise, und dann haben sie quasi jeden anderen Tag gespielt. Ich denke, es gab zwei Spiele, die zwei Tage zwischen den Spielen hatten oder so etwas.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Also ich denke, es war nur Entschlossenheit, kombiniert mit beiden Teams, die die Scheiße auseinanderbekommen haben, weil die Referee für das erlaubt haben. Und das hat zu einem sehr schlappen, schmutzigen Spiel geführt. Es hat zu, denke ich, all den missen Schrecken geführt. Ich meine, ich erinnere mich nicht, was die Percentages waren, aber sie waren nicht großartig.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Yeah, but that was... Wasn't that last year? No, that was... God, what year was it?
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Es war ein Grind-out-Spiel, für sure. Es war ein Jura-League-Spiel. Ich habe das auf unserem eigenen Podcast gesagt. Das ist das, was die Jura-League ist.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Grind. Grind.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Ja, ich meine, wir sind Kapitäne. Das ist eine gute Antwort. Ich bin nicht so ernst.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
So, I don't think there is a way to talk to a ref. There's no magic way to talk to a ref that you're going to get them to see something or change how they call something immediately. I don't know that that exists. I don't know that anyone can sit in here... Und wenn sie wahr sind, dann sage ich, oh ja, ich weiß, wenn ich auf Ref X gehe, wenn ich es so sage, dann werden sie darauf reagieren.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Es wird einfach nicht so passieren. Es wird einfach nicht. Oder sie könnten es nicht, sie könnten es nicht auf eine Art und Weise nennen, damit es nicht so passiert. Und ich sage das nicht, um schädlich zu sein. Es ist alles wie ein Mindgame. Aber was ich über den Laufe meiner Karriere sagen kann, und ich wünsche Diana wirklich, dass wir hier sind, weil sie lacht.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
I think 2022.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Ja, nur um den Rekord. Next time she's in New York. I do think there's something to being consistent. It doesn't mean I never got loud and in ref's faces. I definitely have. It doesn't mean that there weren't times where even if the call was against our team and I saw that it was a good call, I didn't just go like, it sucked for us, but it probably was the right call.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
No, right before. It might have been 2021. I guess I can look this up. Do you know what I remember about the swimsuit shoot?
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Ich glaube, ich war konsistent und das brachte ein bisschen Glauben und Vertrauen. Wenn ich also eine wirklich große Reaktion zu etwas hatte, haben die Referee verstanden, dass ich das nicht gemacht habe, nur um demonstrativ zu sein und weil ich verpisscht war. Aber das war im Laufe von Jahren und Zeit.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
No, no, never.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
No, never. In fact, the opposite. I've had referees come up to me before games numerous times, numerous, like a handful in the course of 20 years. So where they were like, hey, remember that call that X, Y and Z happened? I went and watched it. By the way, I'm talking like the next time I saw that ref. So they could have reffed me on a Monday. I might not see them for three weeks.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
The next time I saw them, then be like, oh, actually that call, I went and watched it. I see what you're saying. Und du warst richtig. Ich habe das gemacht. Und du sagst, ich habe es dir gesagt? Nein. Danke. Natürlich ist es schrecklich.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Ja, absolut. Ja, es ist alles... Die Refs und Spieler, es sind Beziehungen. Besonders in der WNBA. Eine sehr kleine Liga. Es gibt nicht so viele Refs. Wir kennen alle ihre Namen.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
You're not going to get an answer.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Did you have a rider for that? No, we didn't. Of course I remember things about the shoot. What I remember is Brianna Stewart was also there. And she leans over to me at one point. She's like, yo, I think something happened with BG in Russia. And I was like, oh, really? Like what? She goes, yeah, I don't know. I don't know the details, but I don't think it's good.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Also in der Schule ist Coach Ariema bekannt für seinen Humor, seinen Witz. Und er kann... Ja, er kann wirklich schmerzhaft sein. Ein bisschen wie Ezra. Ja, ein bisschen wie Ezra.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
I think he might be funner. Yeah, got it.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Okay, so we're playing, I want to say it was Tennessee, I'm like pretty sure. We're playing Tennessee, not going well in the first half. Like, just not going well. Like, super tentative, kind of nervous, probably, whatever. We go into halftime. I don't even remember what the score was. We go into halftime. He comes into the locker room. And he just looks around.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
And the man is prolific at like storytelling in general and in these moments of like building up. He's just, and he knows when to just like drop the bomb on us. So anyways, he comes in and he just looks around, you know, makes eye contact and he goes, do you know what this is? Do you know what this is? This is all your buttholes right now. He's *** though. This is all your ***.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
And by the way, when he goes, do you know what this is? All of us are like, oh, what is that?
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
And then he goes on to tell us, yeah, just how tight we were playing. Oh, I have a question for you.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
When has my a**hole been the tightest? I'm trying to think of what that scenario would be. Oh, I know 100%.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Yeah.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Larry Bird. So like you were just nervous because you were in the presence of Larry Bird.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Und ich dachte mir, oh, weil es ist wie Schrug, was könnte es sein? Was könnte so schlecht sein? Und dann, fast forward, 48 Stunden, vielleicht eine Woche, weil du weißt, es wurde gehalten. Ich denke, es wurde gehalten.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Get to it.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Ambition right there.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Honestly, the only thing I can pull right now is somebody was doing, I don't even remember who it was, doing just like a basic, it wasn't even a thing on me, it might have been on our team, it might have been on the playoff run, I know it was during the playoffs, and he just continued to get facts wrong.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
I was passive aggressive at the end and I got my little dig in. And that was it.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Yeah.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
A little bit, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's in the back of my head for sure. I like it when it's more conversational. I think most people do.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Was meinst du? Jedes Mal habe ich das Gefühl, oh, was, wenn ich einen Athleten hätte und es eine kontroversielle Sache gäbe, die ich gerne für sie auf meinem Show teilen würde, aber das fühlt sich schmerzhaft an, um das von ihnen auszuprobieren.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Ich habe das Gefühl nicht. Ja, ich weiß. Aber ich denke, als Athletin oder jemand, der oft interviewt wurde, will ich nicht so eine Person sein. And it feels like you're... But this is the medium. You're exploiting a friendship or a relationship maybe. I don't like that thought.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Ich weiß, aber das bedeutet nicht, dass ich das sein muss.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
When people talk to you, they also probably go into it understanding they might get asked. Wenn ich in ein Interview gehe, verstehe ich mit bestimmten Leuten, ich verstehe, dass ich wahrscheinlich X zu X bekommen werde. Ich versuche, ein Beispiel zu finden. Ich werde nur diesen randomen benutzen. Aber ich denke, es ist am besten. Lass uns sagen, ich weiß nicht, wie du dich kennengelernt hast.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Diana's Name ist top of mind, seit ich es gerade aufgebracht habe. Sie hatte einen Kampf mit einem Teamkollegen. Zwei Jahre ago. Skyler Diggins. Auf der Bühne. Alle sahen es. Was auch immer.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
And she's sitting there. I would feel icky being like, so what happened? Whereas I feel like a lot of people are like, D, recently this happened. Can you talk us through it? Or whatever you would say. That moment feels like, eh, even though I'm curious.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Also, als wir an den Olympischen Spielen waren, haben wir ein Live-Show gemacht und wir hatten Dawn Staley an, wir hatten Carl Lewis an und dann kam Mia Hamm an. Und es war in der Konversation mit Mia, ich war nicht mal involviert, also ist das mehr eine Megan-Sache. Megan wusste einfach, welche Frage zu fragen und es war nicht wegen der Präparation, es war nicht, weil sie die Antwort wusste.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Sie stürmte sich dazu, als die Konversation stattfand. Ich erinnere mich nicht genau, aber sie führten zu einem Moment, in dem Mia erzählte, dass Emma Hayes, die aktuelle Nationalteam-Coachin, die 1999 gewinnende Weltcup-Team zurückgebracht hat, um mit den aktuellen Spielern zu sein. Sie brachten eine Grenze.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Die Tatsache, dass Coaches das nicht immer tun, oder dass die vorherigen Coaches das nicht gemacht haben, schockierte mich. And for Mia, in that moment, as she's answering, she gets emotional. It wasn't like a boo-hoo-cry session, but you could see, eyes start to well up. She's getting emotional at the fact that other coaches hadn't done it.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
She felt a little, these are my words, maybe a little disconnected from it all. And now Emma was bringing that all back together and how meaningful that was for Mia. And that's something that we didn't, like I said, prepare for, think about, just stumbled upon it. But really, only Megan probably could have gotten that.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Yes.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
I thought, because it was real, it was... I could feel what she was saying through my own experience. I wasn't feeling the emotion build by any means, but I could definitely in that moment connect to what she was saying. I think when you retire and time goes on, you do just naturally feel disconnected from it.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Oh, I hate you.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Wow. It is a more recent episode, though.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Because butter me looked confident. Butter you looked confident. Butter me...
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
He was tough.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
He was a tough critic.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
You would actually love it.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Oh.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Ich habe die Clips gesehen.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Yeah, we aren't strangers.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
I think we're doing alright. We're hanging in there. No, it's getting better. It's getting easier. Better from our standpoint.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Good question. I'm still figuring that out. I don't know what Megan did recently. It was an interview or maybe something I read. I can't remember. It might have been a podcast we were on. And she talked about her sister, her twin sister asking her after retirement, do you have some new measure of success? Like how do you judge? And the answer is, I don't know.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Like I don't really have, is it money? Is it, like what is it?
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Ist es Retweets? Ist es Kommentare auf YouTube? Ich weiß es nicht. Ich weiß nicht, was es ist. Ich denke, wir versuchen beide, das herauszufinden. Aber was ich herausgefunden habe, war, dass es nicht wie ein Grind fühlt. Also das ist Erfolg. Es wird einfacher in Bezug auf die Präparation und wie und wie man ein Flow und ein Verständnis bekommt. So, which obviously speaks to the grind part of it.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
So, it doesn't feel as hard as it did early on. I think we're getting a little bit more of a flow together. Learning how to do it with two people is different than probably, I'm sure you can speak to this, than just by yourself. So, yeah, so it's getting easier for us. And I think right now that feels like the level. That's the measure of success. That it doesn't feel like a grind.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Because something weekly could feel that way.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Mein richtiger Writer hat... Obwohl, diese Liste wurde vor fünf... Es ist immer noch wahr, aber es wurde vor fünf bis zehn Jahren gemacht. Plantain Chips, Beef Jerky, Twix und Pellegrino.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
I can't wait till we ask you this, by the way.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
This is all your a**holes right now.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
I was actually going to ask how, if you view yourself as a sports podcast.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Nein, ich bin nicht hoch.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Yeah, I guess so. But tell me what things you would demand a rider for. I love seaweed.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
For someone who didn't want to come in the booth.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Or is it just so we don't ask him questions?
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Oh Gott, ja.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Icon. Living. Yeah, I don't have one. Entrepreneur. Wow, okay. Is that a good one? Yeah. Global citizen. Yeah, it doesn't really fit, but to actually answer your question before you get to your point, I still start with either retired or former athlete. Or depending on the room, retired WNBA player.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Not really.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
No, I don't think so. Okay. I haven't given it much, I haven't given it deep thought, but no.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Butthole Story (Or: A Thoughtful Conversation with Sue Bird and Ezra Edelman)
Like a commercial shoot, you have your trailer, a lot of like, you know.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Banned Prince Documentary: Director Ezra Edelman (Finally) Speaks
It's tough at times. It's not meant to be clipped. It's not meant for the algorithm.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Banned Prince Documentary: Director Ezra Edelman (Finally) Speaks
But isn't that the fundamental disconnect when it comes to- He's a public figure.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Banned Prince Documentary: Director Ezra Edelman (Finally) Speaks
The people who made the film with you.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Banned Prince Documentary: Director Ezra Edelman (Finally) Speaks
Yeah. And I don't think it is changing anytime soon.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Banned Prince Documentary: Director Ezra Edelman (Finally) Speaks
Right. You might have won a second Academy Award. No, I couldn't have.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Banned Prince Documentary: Director Ezra Edelman (Finally) Speaks
Correct. I don't know. Correct.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Banned Prince Documentary: Director Ezra Edelman (Finally) Speaks
I don't know.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Banned Prince Documentary: Director Ezra Edelman (Finally) Speaks
And this is the puzzle solver that we're going to pay to do this.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Banned Prince Documentary: Director Ezra Edelman (Finally) Speaks
So is that the question that you set out to craft this map to answer?
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Banned Prince Documentary: Director Ezra Edelman (Finally) Speaks
No. You can explain. Why am I here?
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Banned Prince Documentary: Director Ezra Edelman (Finally) Speaks
Well, there's a Variety headline that I just want to read.
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Banned Prince Documentary: Director Ezra Edelman (Finally) Speaks
This from February 6th, 2025. Oh, that's why I'm here, right. Yes. Yeah, fun.
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
Yeah, it's a little sad. It's a little sad.
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
This is a real film. It's called The Book of Prince. It's nine hours long. It's a product of a lot of people's hard work and blood, sweat, and tears. Caroline Waterlow, Tamara Rosenberg, Nina Kristic, Brett Granato.
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
I have no interest in putting on a film that is factually inaccurate. Like, oh, so the estate gets their opinion about the film put out for the world to see after they're getting their way, which is the film getting killed, and the film gets slandered in the process. And, like, that's not okay.
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
The film will do generational harm to Prince. What does that mean?
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
I do believe the irony is this film would be great for Prince. And I think it would serve the estate and its bottom line tremendously.
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
You know, what do you see when you visit Paisley Park? Oh, this is where a guy lived. But what you see is now a museum that's full of rooms that are named after albums. There are rooms that are full of his shoes. There are rooms that are full of his outfits. But there's really no mention of sex. There's really no mention of religion. There's a glossy...
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
thing that's being promoted for monetary gain this image that we continually need to traffic in of this person who wore glitzy outfits and glitzy shoes and made all this work all which is true but like it's so much deeper his struggles between good and evil and himself this struggle that you see in the music and the art and then how it played out in his life is
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
It's like, how can you not want to tell that story?
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
There's almost invariably, whatever people's responses are through the trajectory of this life and this story, they all come away being like, oh my God, I love this guy. I want to listen to more of his music. This is why I believe this is short-sighted.
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
I believe that people can handle the truth and an honest portrayal of a brilliant artist and at times a flawed human.
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
Exposed to the same level of scrutiny? for who they are and certainly on par with their white counterparts whose talent and accomplishments they match and or outdo. But at the same time, I reject the argument, first and foremost, because A, If I were making a film about David Bowie, I would set out to do the same exact thing that I did with Prince. Who was this person?
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
Why did he change characters? What was going on in his life at all those times? And was I sensitive, by the way, as a black man taking on a black subject, knowing that people might think, oh my God, why are you tearing this person down? But also, why is warts and all such a terrible concept? Why is it not okay to know about a human? Especially, again, we get to have it both ways.
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
You just want to love his art but have him remain unexamined. But if we examine him and you maybe are going to appreciate that art that you love so much even more, You might appreciate the struggle. By the way, this guy got kicked out of his house when he was a teenager. He lived in the basement of his best friend. He created himself out of whole cloth.
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
His will, his drive as a person, as an artist, the struggle he went through, that a guy, yeah, he happened to also be a genius, is unparalleled. That's also what the movie's about. Why can't we hold two truths together? It's not that hard. These things go together. His genius, by the way, would not have wrought Prince, would not have created Prince. Genius alone. No. Genius plus drive plus trauma.
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
Those are the things that created Prince. Why is that a hard thing? Why can't we handle that? Why can't the world handle that? I don't understand it.
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
You know, we are only as strong as our own shoulders, after all. And, like, it's like, am I built for it? I might be built for it as a person, but am I actually any more built for it? And so, trust me, it's not like this is a loss of innocence. I thought the world was great and people do the right things for the right reasons. But when it happens to you in this way, you're like, huh, okay.
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
It does change you a little bit. It does sort of harden you.
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
I think the film exists, I mean, I assume it exists at Netflix somewhere. I mean, this is the thing. Now it is, like, I would go back and change the last shot of the film to, you know, there's a motif in the film of, you know, Prince made a few documentaries or shot a bunch of stuff.
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
And so each time though, he decided based on where he's at in life that they weren't going to actually ever be seen. So they went back in the vault. The point is everything goes back in the vault. You try to make a film, it goes back in the vault. So I would now, if I could change the film, the last shot would be this whole thing going back in the vault. And the vault door would close.
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
You're welcome. I always enjoy talking to you, Sasha.
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
Thanks for having me. I'm, I think, happy to be here.
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
Again, you know my issues with this. It's like, I don't want to make this shit about me.
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
You know, from the time I graduated from school where I, you know, wrote for a school paper, I always was interested in media and sports.
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
I'm self-taught. I just like watch things. And so in some ways I have the brain of someone who's trained on watching narrative films.
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
I do believe there's a way of informing, really informing, talking about things and having people learn, but do it in a way that also entertains them. And I kind of took that as my mandate.
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
It's Prince. There was a vault of material. He is a mysterious figure whose story had never been told. And so for me, it really was trying to help fans and non-fans alike understand who this person is. And at the same time, in that understanding, help them understand his art more.
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
You know, like, look, somebody who was around him for decades and met with us before we started filming basically was like, good luck.
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
People, you know, people who are around him were not at liberty necessarily to talk freely and publicly, whether they wanted to or not.
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
Even in death, people were reluctant because I think it's a natural inclination of some people whose names are made, were made because of their connection to him. So do I want to sully that through talking honestly?
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
And in fact, after many, many years of really persuasion and building trust... At the same time, people had a lot to say once they sat down because they had not really talked openly about him.
The Daily
The Cinematic Masterpiece You Won’t Get to See
You start to investigate who the person was and you realize there are these chapters in his life.
Today, Explained
When docs cry
And I think that's a lot of the story of Prince, you know? And I would say that the film most of all is interested in this really complex psychology and kind of holding all the contradictions at once. What does it take to be this kind of musical genius? What does it take from the soul of the person who is the musical genius?
Today, Explained
When docs cry
And what does it take from the people around him who are supporting him, who are working with him? I think those are some of the questions that Edelman was interested in. What was the agreement between Prince's estate and Edelman? The original agreement, which was struck in 2018, was between Netflix and Prince's estate.
Today, Explained
When docs cry
When Prince died, he had no will, which is one of the vexing mysteries of Prince. Why did he not leave a will when he seemed to care so deeply about his musical legacy? So there was a lot of fighting and then, you know, a lot of legal fights. And then for a time, the estate was in the hands of this bank called Comerica Bank. And that was when the deal was struck with Netflix.
Today, Explained
When docs cry
for, according to my reporting, tens of millions of dollars, Netflix gained exclusive access to Prince's vault, which is his archive, which lived in Paisley Park. All of his master recordings, recordings of music rehearsals, notes, and some diaries, and some photographs, and all of the archival material
Today, Explained
When docs cry
When Edelman came onto the project in 2019, his understanding was that he and Netflix would have final cut and that they'd have exclusive access to the vault and that the estate had the right to review the film for factual accuracy, which Edelman welcomed because he's a very thorough journalist. And he said, you know, great. I want it to be right.
Today, Explained
When docs cry
So that was the that was the deal that he understood he was entering into. What happened next? Prince's estate changed hands in the middle of the process of Ezra Edelman making this film. So when Netflix originally struck the deal with Prince's estate, there was one set of people who were in charge.
Today, Explained
When docs cry
By the time the film started to come undone, there was a new group of people in charge, and they objected to the film that was made. So that was one thing. Another thing was that the Netflix executive, whose name was Lisa Nishimura, who signed on the project, negotiated the original deal, brought on Edelman as the filmmaker, was laid off toward the end of the process of making the film.
Today, Explained
When docs cry
So the film lost its most powerful internal champion at Netflix, its best negotiator with the estate, the person who had the most clout to potentially bring about some better understanding and negotiation. In the summer of 2023, a full cut of the film was shown to the estate for factual review, and they responded with a 17-page memo demanding all kinds of changes. And these were not fact changes.
Today, Explained
When docs cry
These were, for the most part, editorial changes. So to give a few examples, they demanded, for instance, that Edelman and his team reshoot Paisley Park because they didn't like the way that it looked in the film. There's a scene that talks about Prince's death in an elevator in Paisley Park, and one of his bandmates points out that the song Let's Go Crazy that has a lyric about an elevator...
Today, Explained
When docs cry
And his bandmate is suggesting that it kind of presaged his death, that maybe in some bizarre way Prince, you know, kind of orchestrated it that way. They demanded that they remove the song from that scene in the movie. Another example, Wendy Melvoin, who is a very important singer.
Today, Explained
When docs cry
bandmate of Prince's in the revolution, a really huge collaborator of his, talks about Prince calling her up when he became very religious and asking her to renounce her homosexuality. They asked that Edelman take out one of his former manager's assessments that the Rainbow Children, his 2001 album, contained anti-Semitic lyrics. So, you know, things that were Damning. Negative.
Today, Explained
When docs cry
They asked him to take out. And Edelman was adamant that he wouldn't take out.
Today, Explained
When docs cry
You know, my read on that is that they felt that it would turn people away from Prince, that it would ruin Prince's reputation, that it would besmirch people's image of Prince as a kind of secular saint.
Today, Explained
When docs cry
Absolutely. I think the film is really fair-minded. One of the complexities of the film that Edelman really engages carefully and painstakingly is about Prince's relationship with women. I think a lot of us think of Prince as... a promoter of women.
Today, Explained
When docs cry
He had amazing female collaborators throughout his whole career, kind of bolster of women, and someone who embodied himself a complex sexuality and embraced his own femininity in really kind of flamboyant and beautiful ways that I think open pathways for lots of people who loved him.
Today, Explained
When docs cry
So, you know, I think Prince as a kind of almost like a non-binary person before the culture totally had that language, you know, he was a path breaker. He was a path carver. But it was also true, according to the testimony of tens of women that Edelman and his team interviewed, that Prince could be abusive and that Prince could be exceedingly controlling, that Prince could be demeaning.
Today, Explained
When docs cry
And even as Edelman presents this, and he has a really, really upsetting interview with Jill Jones, who was a longtime collaborator and a sometime girlfriend, who talks about a moment when he hit her in the face and really beat her up. And it's a terrible story. And she talks about what a blow it was to her ego and her sense of self for many, many years to be involved with Prince.
Today, Explained
When docs cry
And it's harrowing. It's really upsetting. But he also includes testimony from a lot of other women who have a really different relationship to their time in Prince's orbit.
Today, Explained
When docs cry
You know, some of his collaborators felt really bolstered by him, felt like he helped them find an identity, felt like being kind of molded and chosen and brought into his orbit as young women really shaped their lives in really amazing ways. As a viewer, you know, you're sort of sitting and stewing in these contradictions. And we also are asked to hold all of that and sort all of that.
Today, Explained
When docs cry
So it's a very textured, multi-layered, poly-vocal story. account of his relationship with women.
Today, Explained
When docs cry
I have a hard time believing that. Because I think the kinds of objections that the estate were raising were so... numerous, were so detailed, were so antithetical to the spirit of the film. I mean, how can you edit out three hours of crucial fact and still have a coherent film?
Today, Explained
When docs cry
I mean, not to mention the fact that, you know, even though it's nine hours, it's really, really layered and meticulously put together. It would be like unweaving a hand-woven carpet. And like I said, I mean... based on the 17 pages of notes, you know, it's an objection to the project. It's an objection to this excavation of Prince.
Today, Explained
When docs cry
And I think what the estate wanted was something that was just much more straightforwardly celebratory.
Today, Explained
When docs cry
Someone said to me, you know, it's almost like the better the documentary, the less well it fits into Netflix's system. You know, Netflix has become a factory for documentary series. Why should they spend all their resources on a deeply, complexly reported film that takes forever to make when they could churn out 10 much cheaper celebrity docs? Why would they do that?
Today, Explained
When docs cry
There's a great scene. It was on the night when Prince was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2004, and a bunch of great musicians got together to play While My Guitar Gently Weaves. And Prince does this absolutely heartbreaking, virtuosic, incredible guitar solo. He's wearing a black suit, a red bowler hat. He looks beautiful and elegant.
Today, Explained
When docs cry
You know, he just dominates everybody, and they kind of can't help but shake their heads in awe. But really, the backstory is, as with everything in this film, much more layered and complicated and in some ways sad. So the year before, Rolling Stone, which hosts this event, had made a list of the 100 best guitar players of all time, and Prince was not on the list.
Today, Explained
When docs cry
So he was coming to an event hosted by the people who had left him off this list, and I think there's a lot of angst and a lot of even some revenge.
Today, Explained
When docs cry
And then I think when you watch the performance again with some of that knowledge of some of his childhood pain, his insecurity, his grievance, you know, his sense that he was never recognized enough by the rock establishment, by his parents, by the world. You can see that he's got pain on his face. You know, it's both. It's both pain. Dominance and insecurity.