Ezra Klein

That even Senate Republicans agreed to this was frightening. And when I see the way this administration is working out in daylight... The FBI is a powerful organization that by its nature works in shadow. It is being run by people who would never run it aside from their loyalty to Donald Trump. What is your sense of both what might be happening here and what is possible here?

That even Senate Republicans agreed to this was frightening. And when I see the way this administration is working out in daylight... The FBI is a powerful organization that by its nature works in shadow. It is being run by people who would never run it aside from their loyalty to Donald Trump. What is your sense of both what might be happening here and what is possible here?

Let's go into the what it can do. Here's my picture of the FBI. And you can tell me how much of this feels right to you. There is a highly professionalized bureaucracy there. That bureaucracy is a bureaucracy the Trump administration understands to be hostile, has treated as hostile. But of course, not everybody in it is hostile.

Let's go into the what it can do. Here's my picture of the FBI. And you can tell me how much of this feels right to you. There is a highly professionalized bureaucracy there. That bureaucracy is a bureaucracy the Trump administration understands to be hostile, has treated as hostile. But of course, not everybody in it is hostile.

There are going to be people who are there who Kash Patel believes are loyal, believes are on board, believes want to advance through Kash Patel's FBI. There are going to be people they hire into the FBI. And so while the entirety of the FBI would not be safe to turn into your private go-after-my-enemies agency—

There are going to be people who are there who Kash Patel believes are loyal, believes are on board, believes want to advance through Kash Patel's FBI. There are going to be people they hire into the FBI. And so while the entirety of the FBI would not be safe to turn into your private go-after-my-enemies agency—

There are certainly going to be dozens, hundreds of people who you could have on special teams who you were using in ways like this. In the past, under Hoover, the FBI has done a lot of digging up information on people and then using it to compromise them, to blackmail them, very famously with people like Martin Luther King Jr.,

There are certainly going to be dozens, hundreds of people who you could have on special teams who you were using in ways like this. In the past, under Hoover, the FBI has done a lot of digging up information on people and then using it to compromise them, to blackmail them, very famously with people like Martin Luther King Jr.,

And so if you imagine something that does not seem to me to be far-fetched, historically or in the present, which is you've named Patel and Bongino, who are intense loyalists to Donald Trump, to this position. They understand their work is serving Donald Trump's will, and they understand their tools being the FBI and loyal agents within the FBI or loyal people they can bring to the FBI.

And so if you imagine something that does not seem to me to be far-fetched, historically or in the present, which is you've named Patel and Bongino, who are intense loyalists to Donald Trump, to this position. They understand their work is serving Donald Trump's will, and they understand their tools being the FBI and loyal agents within the FBI or loyal people they can bring to the FBI.

What could a group like that do?

What could a group like that do?

In their interpretation of the law, it was lawful to go to the SDNY. Correct. and tell the career prosecutors there to lay off of Eric Adams because he had come to some kind of deal. I mean, accounts differ, but it's pretty clear, I would say, my opinion, what happened, that he had come to a deal with the Trump administration to basically do what it said. in return for their protection.

In their interpretation of the law, it was lawful to go to the SDNY. Correct. and tell the career prosecutors there to lay off of Eric Adams because he had come to some kind of deal. I mean, accounts differ, but it's pretty clear, I would say, my opinion, what happened, that he had come to a deal with the Trump administration to basically do what it said. in return for their protection.

That happened under Pam Bondi, this attorney general. That was, to me, the big signal in all this. Again, that happened relatively in the daylight. They sustained the effort even after all these prosecutors resigned publicly, creating quite a lot of bad press and publicity for them.

That happened under Pam Bondi, this attorney general. That was, to me, the big signal in all this. Again, that happened relatively in the daylight. They sustained the effort even after all these prosecutors resigned publicly, creating quite a lot of bad press and publicity for them.

And they did it because, I mean, I think the through line of Donald Trump's view of the world and how to operate in it is leverage. What he wants on countries, what he wants on people, what he wants on business partners is leverage. He'll get it in kind of all different domains. Tariffs are leverage. Power and primaries is leverage.

And they did it because, I mean, I think the through line of Donald Trump's view of the world and how to operate in it is leverage. What he wants on countries, what he wants on people, what he wants on business partners is leverage. He'll get it in kind of all different domains. Tariffs are leverage. Power and primaries is leverage.

Funding for universities is leverage. The fact that they can deport you on a green card is leverage. The fact that you are being investigated by the SDNY for political corruption is leverage. But then you think of the FBI and its capacity to find leverage on people. And if you hold the view of them that I just described, then the FBI specifically becomes a very frightening organization.

Funding for universities is leverage. The fact that they can deport you on a green card is leverage. The fact that you are being investigated by the SDNY for political corruption is leverage. But then you think of the FBI and its capacity to find leverage on people. And if you hold the view of them that I just described, then the FBI specifically becomes a very frightening organization.