Ezra Klein

Let me try to steel man what I think happened in the Washington consensus, which is, and I've talked to many Democrats about this, but they would say Tom Friedman is naive. that there was a bill of goods sold. And the bill of goods had a couple parts to it.

Let me try to steel man what I think happened in the Washington consensus, which is, and I've talked to many Democrats about this, but they would say Tom Friedman is naive. that there was a bill of goods sold. And the bill of goods had a couple parts to it.

One is that if we welcome China into the global trading order, they would trade more, they would get richer, they would consume more, and they would also liberalize. And they didn't do – I mean, they did get richer, but they have kept domestic consumption depressed through a bunch of different policies. And they become more authoritarian under Xi, which you mentioned, but it's a big deal here.

One is that if we welcome China into the global trading order, they would trade more, they would get richer, they would consume more, and they would also liberalize. And they didn't do – I mean, they did get richer, but they have kept domestic consumption depressed through a bunch of different policies. And they become more authoritarian under Xi, which you mentioned, but it's a big deal here.

You've had profound human rights abuses like with the Uyghurs. But deeper than that, you're very dismissive of this idea that the Chinese Communist Party at its core is an ideological project meant to spread Chinese power and communist ideology.

You've had profound human rights abuses like with the Uyghurs. But deeper than that, you're very dismissive of this idea that the Chinese Communist Party at its core is an ideological project meant to spread Chinese power and communist ideology.

They say, no, if you really look into it and the way he rules and the kinds of study sessions he makes people go through, that this is very much an ideological expansionist power that The idea of the Thucydides trap becomes very common, right, that there are these two superpowers and there can be only one eventually, and we need to be prepared for that.

They say, no, if you really look into it and the way he rules and the kinds of study sessions he makes people go through, that this is very much an ideological expansionist power that The idea of the Thucydides trap becomes very common, right, that there are these two superpowers and there can be only one eventually, and we need to be prepared for that.

And that what we've ultimately been doing here is weakening ourselves and strengthening China. Our industrial base has moved too much to China. We're too dependent on them for supply. And I think this really all comes to a head after Russia's invasion of Ukraine, when people see how the dependence on Russian natural gas weakened Europe and the world's response.

And that what we've ultimately been doing here is weakening ourselves and strengthening China. Our industrial base has moved too much to China. We're too dependent on them for supply. And I think this really all comes to a head after Russia's invasion of Ukraine, when people see how the dependence on Russian natural gas weakened Europe and the world's response.

And the feeling becomes China's more dangerous than we've given it credit for. It has grown its industrial base at our expense without becoming the sort of good actor, both domestically and in the international political system we were promised.

And the feeling becomes China's more dangerous than we've given it credit for. It has grown its industrial base at our expense without becoming the sort of good actor, both domestically and in the international political system we were promised.

And we cannot allow ourselves to be in a position in the future where we are in some kind of war or conflict with China, and yet we are looking to them to make all of the things we need to compete with them. And as such, what you need to do is decouple, and you need to understand them as an antagonistic power that we treat as a hostile enemy. That is my account of

And we cannot allow ourselves to be in a position in the future where we are in some kind of war or conflict with China, and yet we are looking to them to make all of the things we need to compete with them. And as such, what you need to do is decouple, and you need to understand them as an antagonistic power that we treat as a hostile enemy. That is my account of

Of how the center of gravity changed. And I think what I just told you would be the thing that many Democrats in Congress would tell you, not just Republicans. Yes. What is wrong with it?

Of how the center of gravity changed. And I think what I just told you would be the thing that many Democrats in Congress would tell you, not just Republicans. Yes. What is wrong with it?

Here's one of the things that I think deranges a bit the US debate on China, which is that two things are happening at the same time that we have trouble seeing at the same time. On the one hand, I feel like the conventional wisdom at the end of the Biden administration is China's doing quite badly. They are not escaping the middle income trap.

Here's one of the things that I think deranges a bit the US debate on China, which is that two things are happening at the same time that we have trouble seeing at the same time. On the one hand, I feel like the conventional wisdom at the end of the Biden administration is China's doing quite badly. They are not escaping the middle income trap.

They have not raised living standards in the way people thought they would. Xi's zero COVID policies went on way too long and were authoritarian in a very extreme fashion. There was this state-sponsored crackdown on tech companies and a bunch of other parts of Chinese life. And there's a real feeling that America was in a stronger position and they were in a weaker one.

They have not raised living standards in the way people thought they would. Xi's zero COVID policies went on way too long and were authoritarian in a very extreme fashion. There was this state-sponsored crackdown on tech companies and a bunch of other parts of Chinese life. And there's a real feeling that America was in a stronger position and they were in a weaker one.