Menu
Sign In Search Podcasts Charts People & Topics Add Podcast API Blog Pricing

Ezra Klein

👤 Speaker
15561 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

The Ezra Klein Show
Michael Pollan’s Journey to the Borderlands of Consciousness

To put on our shoes in a semi-efficient manner.

The Ezra Klein Show
Michael Pollan’s Journey to the Borderlands of Consciousness

But it involves putting these blinders on.

The Ezra Klein Show
Michael Pollan’s Journey to the Borderlands of Consciousness

So there's a trade-off.

The Ezra Klein Show
Michael Pollan’s Journey to the Borderlands of Consciousness

And one of the things psychedelics do, and Allison made this point to me also, is return us to lantern consciousness.

The Ezra Klein Show
Michael Pollan’s Journey to the Borderlands of Consciousness

And, you know, she said in an interview with me and to other people, you know, when she first tried LSD, which wasn't until I think her 60s, she realized, oh, this is how the kids are thinking.

The Ezra Klein Show
Michael Pollan’s Journey to the Borderlands of Consciousness

They're tripping all the time.

The Ezra Klein Show
Michael Pollan’s Journey to the Borderlands of Consciousness

And she said, just have tea with a four-year-old and you'll see.

The Ezra Klein Show
Michael Pollan’s Journey to the Borderlands of Consciousness

And there's a lot of truth to that, I think.

The Ezra Klein Show
Michael Pollan’s Journey to the Borderlands of Consciousness

So the phrase comes from a scientist named Mark Soames, who is a neuroscientist and a psychoanalyst in South Africa.

The Ezra Klein Show
Michael Pollan’s Journey to the Borderlands of Consciousness

And he's written a really interesting book called The Hidden Spring.

The Ezra Klein Show
Michael Pollan’s Journey to the Borderlands of Consciousness

And his theory is that consciousness arises when...

The Ezra Klein Show
Michael Pollan’s Journey to the Borderlands of Consciousness

You can't automate things.

The Ezra Klein Show
Michael Pollan’s Journey to the Borderlands of Consciousness

And in this case, he's talking about the fact that you might have two competing needs.

The Ezra Klein Show
Michael Pollan’s Journey to the Borderlands of Consciousness

Let's say you're hungry and you're tired and you have to decide which to privilege.

The Ezra Klein Show
Michael Pollan’s Journey to the Borderlands of Consciousness

And that takes decision-making.

The Ezra Klein Show
Michael Pollan’s Journey to the Borderlands of Consciousness

And what consciousness does is open up this space to resolve uncertainty.

The Ezra Klein Show
Michael Pollan’s Journey to the Borderlands of Consciousness

So if everything was predictable in the world and you could be certain when this happens, that happens, you know, and you had a kind of neat algorithm to deal with contingencies,

The Ezra Klein Show
Michael Pollan’s Journey to the Borderlands of Consciousness

You don't need it.

The Ezra Klein Show
Michael Pollan’s Journey to the Borderlands of Consciousness

But a lot of life presents us with uncertainty.

The Ezra Klein Show
Michael Pollan’s Journey to the Borderlands of Consciousness

And that's when consciousness arises.