Ezra Klein

And honestly, I would like to be able to buy excellent, cheaper electric vehicles. I've never been particularly on board with the Biden administration's tariffs on that. It's always seemed to me that this idea that you were going to choose in the way they did...

And honestly, I would like to be able to buy excellent, cheaper electric vehicles. I've never been particularly on board with the Biden administration's tariffs on that. It's always seemed to me that this idea that you were going to choose in the way they did...

That your competition with China was going to completely overwhelm your electric vehicle transition suggests maybe you were not as worried about decarbonization on the timeline as they said they were. Yes. But I recognize these are difficult choices, but they do reflect this question, which is, is the end game here? A relationship between two prosperous superpowers or is the end game here?

That your competition with China was going to completely overwhelm your electric vehicle transition suggests maybe you were not as worried about decarbonization on the timeline as they said they were. Yes. But I recognize these are difficult choices, but they do reflect this question, which is, is the end game here? A relationship between two prosperous superpowers or is the end game here?

We are trying to isolate China and keep it from becoming the superpower it might otherwise be because we believe coexistence to be fundamentally impossible. And I think if you're getting people to speak honestly now, what is most changed in the Washington conversation about the two countries is that almost all the key figures in Washington now believe the latter.

We are trying to isolate China and keep it from becoming the superpower it might otherwise be because we believe coexistence to be fundamentally impossible. And I think if you're getting people to speak honestly now, what is most changed in the Washington conversation about the two countries is that almost all the key figures in Washington now believe the latter.

They believe coexistence is impossible. And so you are just in an all-out fight for power and that AGI supercharges the need to win that competition because whoever gets to that first is going to have a huge advantage over the other. It sounds to me like what you're saying is the goal should be the other thing.

They believe coexistence is impossible. And so you are just in an all-out fight for power and that AGI supercharges the need to win that competition because whoever gets to that first is going to have a huge advantage over the other. It sounds to me like what you're saying is the goal should be the other thing.

Let me ask as we come to a close here. You've had two pretty significant trips to China in the last year. You've had many, many more behind that. On these trips, what was the thing you heard most that worried you most? Or what was a meeting you had or the thing you saw that shifted your perspective the most?

Let me ask as we come to a close here. You've had two pretty significant trips to China in the last year. You've had many, many more behind that. On these trips, what was the thing you heard most that worried you most? Or what was a meeting you had or the thing you saw that shifted your perspective the most?

What do those of us who have not been there in some time or have never gone, what are we not seeing or hearing?

What do those of us who have not been there in some time or have never gone, what are we not seeing or hearing?

Then always our final question. What are three books you'd recommend to the audience? Oh, I forgot. Oh, Jesus.

Then always our final question. What are three books you'd recommend to the audience? Oh, I forgot. Oh, Jesus.

Tom Friedman, thank you very much. Thanks, Ezra. This episode of The Ezra Klein Show is produced by Roland Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Isaac Jones with Amin Sahota and Afim Shapiro. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon.

Tom Friedman, thank you very much. Thanks, Ezra. This episode of The Ezra Klein Show is produced by Roland Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Isaac Jones with Amin Sahota and Afim Shapiro. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon.

The show's production team also includes Mary Cassione, Elias Iskwith, Marina King, Jan Coble, Kristen Lynn, and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Christina Samielewski and Shannon Busta. And special thanks to Zoe Zong-Yin Liu, Kyle Chan, and Matt Sheehan.

The show's production team also includes Mary Cassione, Elias Iskwith, Marina King, Jan Coble, Kristen Lynn, and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Christina Samielewski and Shannon Busta. And special thanks to Zoe Zong-Yin Liu, Kyle Chan, and Matt Sheehan.

Looking forward to our thing in a few weeks. Yeah, I don't know if I'll end up being there, but I'm hoping to. I'm hoping to.

Looking forward to our thing in a few weeks. Yeah, I don't know if I'll end up being there, but I'm hoping to. I'm hoping to.