Ezra Klein

Yeah, yeah. Larry takes a bunch of MDMA and we all sort of go into the corner and hang out together. God, that sounds incredible.

Yeah, yeah. Larry takes a bunch of MDMA and we all sort of go into the corner and hang out together. God, that sounds incredible.

How are you, sir? Glad to be here in my final hours of freedom.

How are you, sir? Glad to be here in my final hours of freedom.

I can't say I wonder if it could have been done in a more gradual, thoughtful way. It could have. I defer to Larry on the markets. I'm more of a connoisseur of arguments and something I've been thinking about over the past... very long eight days, is covering the 2024 election and covering Donald Trump's tariff promises.

I can't say I wonder if it could have been done in a more gradual, thoughtful way. It could have. I defer to Larry on the markets. I'm more of a connoisseur of arguments and something I've been thinking about over the past... very long eight days, is covering the 2024 election and covering Donald Trump's tariff promises.

And it was a thing that liberals like me were doing, where we would do these shows and say, Donald Trump is promising a 10% to 20% global tariff, and then a 65% tariff on China. And if he does that, it'll have this set of effects, higher prices, it'll create financial uncertainty, et cetera. And what I would be told, like the counter-argument

And it was a thing that liberals like me were doing, where we would do these shows and say, Donald Trump is promising a 10% to 20% global tariff, and then a 65% tariff on China. And if he does that, it'll have this set of effects, higher prices, it'll create financial uncertainty, et cetera. And what I would be told, like the counter-argument

was, oh, you libs, you always take him literally when you should be taking him seriously. I had Vivek Ramaswamy on my show. He said, he's not going to do that. That's just a negotiating ploy. And this was the common line from Trump allies on Wall Street. And then I watched as he began doing not just that, but layering a series of them bilateral tariffs on top of that plan.

was, oh, you libs, you always take him literally when you should be taking him seriously. I had Vivek Ramaswamy on my show. He said, he's not going to do that. That's just a negotiating ploy. And this was the common line from Trump allies on Wall Street. And then I watched as he began doing not just that, but layering a series of them bilateral tariffs on top of that plan.

The markets began freaking out. While they were freaking out, a bunch of his defenders said, no, no, no, actually, these tariffs, which we told you were never going to happen, are actually a great idea. We need to reset the entire global financial system. And you can't ship those tectonic plates without creating a few earthquakes.

The markets began freaking out. While they were freaking out, a bunch of his defenders said, no, no, no, actually, these tariffs, which we told you were never going to happen, are actually a great idea. We need to reset the entire global financial system. And you can't ship those tectonic plates without creating a few earthquakes.

Then the moment the tariffs paused, the 90-day pause on the tariffs on top of the 10% and the China tariff, then I heard, nope, that pause is genius. Haven't you read The Art of the Deal?

Then the moment the tariffs paused, the 90-day pause on the tariffs on top of the 10% and the China tariff, then I heard, nope, that pause is genius. Haven't you read The Art of the Deal?

And what I would observe from this is that usually when an idea is good, you don't need people jumping back and forth on it so often, going between, these tariffs are a bad idea, but they're a smart negotiating ploy, to these tariffs plus are an actually great idea and you should all calm down, as Trump said, you should all be cool, back to know these tariffs are a great idea.

And what I would observe from this is that usually when an idea is good, you don't need people jumping back and forth on it so often, going between, these tariffs are a bad idea, but they're a smart negotiating ploy, to these tariffs plus are an actually great idea and you should all calm down, as Trump said, you should all be cool, back to know these tariffs are a great idea.

I think something I'd love to hear from David, it's very hard to break the pattern of being a podcast host, I would like to hear what the measure of success in two years is. Right? We can sit here and speculate about the effect of these, and I'm much more on Larry's side than what I'm hearing from Chamath and David, but What are your measures?

I think something I'd love to hear from David, it's very hard to break the pattern of being a podcast host, I would like to hear what the measure of success in two years is. Right? We can sit here and speculate about the effect of these, and I'm much more on Larry's side than what I'm hearing from Chamath and David, but What are your measures?

What in two years, if manufacturing, employment or whatever is below X, will you be unhappy? If GDP is, what is a sort of objective yardstick where we could come back in 700 days and say, did this work out or was this a bad idea?

What in two years, if manufacturing, employment or whatever is below X, will you be unhappy? If GDP is, what is a sort of objective yardstick where we could come back in 700 days and say, did this work out or was this a bad idea?